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On October 08 2013 20:42 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote:
IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this. Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else. It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG.
yeah obviously just an honest mistake and it was totaly random that Revival was picked from this list you refer to...
Why are you talking about mafia? EG is a huge team and has a lot of influence and connections. It isnt very far fetched to think that they heard about this situation and pushed for their cause. Im not even saying its anything wrong with that, just saying I think its likely thats the reason IEM handled this to fast and didnt look close enough on all the details involved.
You version of the "truth" is that everything is just a mistake and nothing really happens for a reason. Thats more far fetched than my theory. But we are both entitled to our opinions.
Have a good day.
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On October 08 2013 15:53 ContrailNZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products.... Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does) You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch...
That's his point. He said that you (and many other viewers) care more about what country someone comes from than anything that is actually relevant to the game. So tournaments either have to invite people who are really terrible simply because of where they're born OR they have to invite the people that actually deserve the spots.
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On October 09 2013 01:28 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 15:53 ContrailNZ wrote:On October 08 2013 13:58 dcemuser wrote:On October 08 2013 13:33 ContrailNZ wrote:
This basically reflects why I don't follow SC2 pro tournaments very often.
Koreans winning EU and NA spots.
SC2 has killed itself. Please, if they gave out all the NA and EU spots exclusively to NA and EU players, then you just have 100k people watching in the round of 16, the Koreans roflstomp all the NA/EU players, and then everyone tunes out for the Korean-only Round of 8 through finals. Koreans are dominant at StarCraft, and it is the biggest reason why SC/SC2 is not as popular in the West as MOBAs - just look at the tweets going out when foreigners face Chinese players in DotA2 - people are so overwhelmingly anti-Eastern. For some reason, people view StarCraft and other esports like it is soccer or basketball and make it a matter of national pride, but if we think of NA players or EU players as 'our team', then 'our team' -always loses-. Why would you watch a team that never wins? SC2 did nothing to kill itself. The nature of humanity and the reality of sports/esports viewers has 'killed' SC2. Your argument makes no sense. You realize that paying a lot of money so Koreans can play in the early rounds only makes the domination even worse? NA / EU players can beat any Korean players occasionally, but not the huge amount needed to go deep in tournaments now. It makes even less sense to pay money for people to attend tournaments when this makes them so much more expensive to run. Or do EU / NA tournaments advertise a lot of Korean products.... Comparing SC2 to sports.... 95% of people follow their local / national teams not overseas countries teams that speak little English. A few teams like a few players manage international success, but htey are the exception (like MC does) You raise a good point though. If i follow European players and they never progress far because they are versus huge amounts of Korean players why would I and many others watch............. oh wait.... we don't watch... That's his point. He said that you (and many other viewers) care more about what country someone comes from than anything that is actually relevant to the game. So tournaments either have to invite people who are really terrible simply because of where they're born OR they have to invite the people that actually deserve the spots.
If people worked like they did in your idealistic world sport would die off in a few years when no one chose to support lesser skilled players / teams.
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On October 08 2013 21:12 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 20:42 Vorenius wrote:On October 08 2013 18:51 Fjodorov wrote:
IEM twisting the words to justify giving the spot to revival. Obviously its a very different situation now than when they asked grubby if he wanted a unpaid spot in the open bracket. I suppose EG has alot of strings they can pull and they take care of their players and thats their job but I thought IEM had a bit more integrity than this. Please stop with the retarded conspiracy theories here. Take that shit somewhere else. It would probably be better for IEM to have a popular foreigner like Grubby there raher than having another second class korean. They made a mistake when they reviewed the list of people accepting unpaid invites by not realizing the list was originally for invites to the Dual tournament and not Ro16. That doesn't mean the Esports mafia is run by EG. yeah obviously just an honest mistake and it was totaly random that Revival was picked from this list you refer to... Why are you talking about mafia? EG is a huge team and has a lot of influence and connections. It isnt very far fetched to think that they heard about this situation and pushed for their cause. Im not even saying its anything wrong with that, just saying I think its likely thats the reason IEM handled this to fast and didnt look close enough on all the details involved. You version of the "truth" is that everything is just a mistake and nothing really happens for a reason. Thats more far fetched than my theory. But we are both entitled to our opinions. Have a good day.
We have NO PROOF of whether it is an honest mistake or something shady.
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Im the opposite, I rather see highest level play, no matter what country is the players origin.
Personally I totally agree with this. Really doesn't bother me where the person is from geographically. I have my favourite team and support every one of those players over their opponent when they're playing in a game, but I'm really there to see the highest level of play possible. Its why I love SC2 as an Esport. The level of skill it takes to play at Jaedong's level is so insane that I am left in awe and can't help but be fixated to the screen.
Sure I wish more NA and EU players were at that level and meeting that level of play, but at the end of the day if they can't play at that level it won't diminish my appreciation for the level at which the others are playing at.
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F**k the french administration effciency/flexibility. And I'm french...
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i am confused. is the Open Bracket the same as the Dual Tournament?
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Germany609 Posts
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does this mean he can stream more?
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IEM is seriously messsed up with 3 missing players.... I love his aggressive style and NO MORE ZvZ PLEASE
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sucks really like forgg - still good replacement imo
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Canada16217 Posts
On October 09 2013 19:15 Beta2k wrote:
i am confused. is the Open Bracket the same as the Dual Tournament?
yes
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x-posting this from Reddit, how things should have gone: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1nwlvv/millforgg_will_not_be_attending_iem_new_york_he/ccmtkh1
How this seems it was handled:
ESL Guy: Hey Nerchio (Grubby), wanna come to IEM NY open bracket? You gotta pay it on your own though.
Nerchio: Lol, do I look like I shit money?
Grubby: Thank you for this offer. However, given the likelihood that I would have to pay a significant amount of money while potentially not making it out of the open bracket, I must pass, unfortunately.
...
ESL Manager: ForGG has forfeited his spot. We should now re-approach Nerchio/Grubby right?
ESL Guy: Nah. They already said it's too expensive for them and bla bla...
ESL Manager: Well, let's offer this spot to someone else in an outrageously non-transparent fashion.
Team EG: Hello. $_$
How this should have been handled:
Dear Mr. Bloch (Mr. Schenkhuizen),
In light of our conversation from {DD/MM/YYYY} regarding the unpaid slot in the IEM New York Open Bracket which you rejected, I would like to inform you about a new opportunity to participate in the tournament. Due to undisclosed circumstances, Mr. Park (ForGG), who has obtained his spot through the EU qualifier, is unable to participate. We are now looking for someone who is willing to replace him in the main part (group stage) of the tournament. Since you were the next highest-ranked player in the qualifier, we believe it is fair that this spot is offered to you. Please, keep in mind that we are unable to provide any sponsorship related to the travel and accommodation. If you happen to be interested in accepting this spot, please contact me within XX days on {email}, {telephone number}, {skype}.
Sincerely,
Mr. Easy Communication
ESL
Both funny, and unfortunately, accurate. Shame on IEM that they handled the forfeits of Polt, StarDust and ForGG so incredibly badly, and refused to give invited to other EU/US-based players. Sloppy, sloppy organization.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 08 2013 07:05 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 06:36 j1nzo wrote:
just stupid... i gotta hand it to the american government to give out regular sports visas to traditional and esports athletes likewise- at least in lol...
i hope we will soon have that for all countries and (e)sports.
come on politics you're ruinin esports -.- You realize that ForGG is forfeiting the event to get a working permit in france, not because he couldn't get a visa for the u.s.?
i know, but i'm criticizing how the countries are dealing with esports athletes in general. how many times did we see that pros couldn't attend tournaments/events due to visa issues.
i only brought the us as an example b/c they just recently changed the visa regulations for (lol) pros which is (imo) a step into the right direction.
so i hope other countries will follow that example soon...
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EPT
