EPTChoya says team will continue, criticizes WCS system (TIG)…
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:22 jmbthirteen wrote: While I do agree Blizzard needs to look at WCS and change quite a few things, for Choya to blame this all on them is a bit much. FXO has clearly been getting out of esports for awhile now. Ever since Boss left, its been a steady departure of their entire esports staff. The guys who wanted to run the team and were dedicated left. I didn't know Boss left FXO. That explains the downsizing even more,since he was the guy who picked out Choya. | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
this is actually a serious issue.if sponsors will nolt come then teams will cease to exist since no money wll be available.and since the news the eg is cutting player salaries this type of thing might happen in the foreign scene in the near future.The next wcs season will be vital if studio only play is not introduced to let only people interested in the scene participate the already bleeding foreign scene will crumble. @nosec the only players the wcs is good for is the washed up koreans that can not make it in korea anymore and run to foreign wcs to take money from foreigners.those over the hill players leech the scene and lower the viewership.the top korean players earn far less money since winning the gsl and osl will not equate with a large prize like in ther past.Also the na and eu players can not make a living out of playing sc2 due to the fact that the washed up korean spend all year training in a korean teamhouse and then come to na and eu for a couple to days to take the money. | ||
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shaftofpleasure
Korea (North)1375 Posts
it's okay. even if SC2 is no more in korea, we still have the foreign scene then they realize all your best players are koreans .. lol | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:25 Plansix wrote: I didn't know Boss left FXO. That explains the downsizing even more,since he was the guy who picked out Choya. Boss left quite awhile ago, probably over a year ago. Unstable left about a month ago and thats when I figured FXO was going to be no more. It would be too difficult to replace that whole staff honestly. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:31 Kamu wrote: I think Blizzard should actually learn a lesson from soccer, even though Sc2 and Soccer is not the same. But soccer is hugely famous and that has not only to do with it being a beautiful sport. But in soccer you have different region closed leagues, like the German Bundesliga oder Premier League in England. The same applys to Blizzards WCS, if they closed the regions. On top of that, there is the championsleague. A league, where the best of the best meet every 2-3 weeks to play out matches. I don't know what Blizzard planned on doing, but i think they wanted to come close to some kind of this. But soccer has huge advantages: - the regions are closly balanced - everyone is watching only his own region, because its interesting enough and you are not able to watch any other region with your tv - the games and the championsleague are watched only one day of the week. These are the reasons, why its so successful. And now the things that are different in SC2 - the regions are not even slightly balanced. The best 20 players of this planet come from korea. - with WCS you are able to watch SC2 5 hours a day 7 days a week ... that is just toooo much. I remember times, where there was only GSL (and MLG only for a weekend), and everyone was watching sc2 on tuesday and thursday and no more. It's just absurd, but its a fact, that the more you get of something, the less interested you are in that! Additionally, why should you want to pay for GSL, if you can watch WCS every single day for 6 hours, especially as the WCS europe / american finals are full of koreans aswell? So what can Blizzard and GOM do to improve the situation? If Blizzard goes on like this, GOM will be dead soon, because there will be no more people that pay for GSL. So the korean scene will be weaken together with their players, while the foreigners will stay the same... In the end the all the region will be balanced ( i think !! ) But the question is... do we want that? Well i don't think so, because that means we still can watch too much games and the scene will decline. I think the most important thing is to make the events unique! In an earlier post someone was talking about, that there were only 14 LR pages due to the match of Rain vs. Soulkey, and the only reason why noone is talking about that is, because GSL is not unique anymore. So i think Blizzard should try to copy the soccer system with small changes. - close regions and put more money in korean GSL, so that there is competition on a regional bases, while everyone wants to watch GSL - make WCS a single tournament exactly like the champions league in soccer. Invite the stronges 32 players on this planet (give different seats for every region - for example 26 seats to koreans, 4 seats to europeans and 2 seats to americans... there is a good system for calculating that in soccer aswell ... germany for example has 4 seats while romania has only a qualification seat). That tournament should last a whole year with one or two matches being streamed on sunday evening! That's not true my friend, atleast the football part. Premier League, Bundesliga, Calcio and La Liga are clearly the 4 best leagues in the world and grab more attention then all the other national leagues united. For instance Portugal has a "good" league, top 5/6 maybe a bit lower and we do care about our top teams but a "Real Madrid vs Barcelona" will grab our attention, of course even more if it's a champions league matchup! My point being is that a swedish WCS will grab way more attention then a netherlands WCS, like a Korean will grab more then a swedish! I'm not saying you are wrong i'm just saying that the top interest will always lie with the best and more famous players/teams all over the world. Outside of russian, german, french(allot less without stephano), spanish, swedish, ukrainian WCS, all other euro countrys would probably suck (Sorry if i forgot someone)! | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:25 romanianthunder wrote: "FXO has judged that StarCraft2 is no longer useful for giving their company exposure, and informed us they are ceasing their support because StarCraft is not doing well." this is actually a serious issue.if sponsors will nolt come then teams will cease to exist since no money wll be available.and since the news the eg is cutting player salaries this type of thing might happen in the foreign scene in the near future.The next wcs season will be vital if studio only play is not introduced to let only people interested in the scene participate the already bleeding foreign scene will crumble. @nosec the only players the wcs is good for is the washed up koreans that can not make it in korea anymore and run to foreign wcs to take money from foreigners.those over the hill players leech the scene and lower the viewership.the top korean players earn far less money since winning the gsl and osl will not equate with a large prize like in ther past.Also the na and eu players can not make a living out of playing sc2 due to the fact that the washed up korean spend all year training in a korean teamhouse and then come to na and eu for a couple to days to take the money. That's completely incorrect,they move to NA/EU because they are smart even if you have a 40% chance to win WCS KR why stay there when you have better odds somewhere else? | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:26 shaftofpleasure wrote: SC2 fans be like: then they realize all your best players are koreans .. lol Why the hell do idiots like you come into the SC2 forums just to crap all over our scene and game? I'm never going to actually support BW in any form because of the toxic and childish community that gets its kicks on crapping on SC2 fans. Piss off. | ||
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noSec
Brazil37 Posts
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Baroninthetree
United States473 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:24 Darkhoarse wrote: Lower skill level doesn't have to mean lower viewership. Look at the LCS as a model. LCS NA could accurately be described as having the lowest level of skill of the regions, and yet it has extremely high viewer counts. I don't have the answer as to why, but I feel that saying that Lower skill means low viewer counts isn't necessarily true. Its how LOL does. Nobody cares about the skill level in LoL. The locals always own the viewship. Just look at the viewer number decline during group stage to bracket stage. Besides, LoL is not that an competitive game anyway. The winner not necessary means the best skill, at least that what most believes. | ||
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Baroninthetree
United States473 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:34 noSec wrote: I believe that SC2 fans don't/shouldn't care if the best players are koreans or not... They should care about the game itself, the scene, the E-Sport thing about it. I'm from Brazil and the players here are terrible when compared even to US players. But hey for us brazilians it's awesome to see the game growing. The matches are even an awesome for our level of play... It's all about regions and it's players. I believe that US players have a huge fanbase all around the world as Spanish players have, Swedish players have and the list goes on. I am with you man. we should focus on the best games instead of the where does the player come from. But hey, it's sports, the local does matter a hell lot. | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:33 NovemberstOrm wrote: That's completely incorrect,they move to NA/EU because they are smart even if you have a 40% chance to win WCS KR why stay there when you have better odds somewhere else? nope you are incorrect."smart" in this case means trianing in a korean teamhouse and then playing again foreigners who do not have teamhouse or if they do they are not as professional as the korean ones.And none of the koreans who are currently in the wcs na and eu would make it past the group stages in korea:MC,duckdeok,mvp,mma,hyun,polt,byul,hack,oz,apocalypse,hack,heart,forgg,genius,stardust stand exactly 0% chance of passing the group stages of the gsl or osl.This is why they ran form korea in the frst place.They ran not because they were winning anything.They ran once they became washed up. | ||
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eScaper-tsunami
Canada313 Posts
On October 03 2013 00:37 NovaMB wrote: Well what else is there then? Shrink down until it can sustain itself? Let SC2 become a game like CS:GO where 50k is an outstanding viewership? If Blizzard wants to keep WCS going they need to make sure the regions arent falling apart and let the players that enjoy playing SC2 be able to sustain themselves in Korea from korean tournaments. But I guess the real issue is probably the game itself, but I dont know BW well enough to comment on that. The truth is sustainable isn't good enough. Sponsors are looking for a growing scene. One that projects to larger viewership over time. When SC2 first launched investors came with the assumption that HotS and LotV will make the game bigger and better. With HotS released, the number of viewers haven't grown much (if at all). People were also hoping proleague joining SC2 would help the scene, but instead proleague teams are getting axed one by one due to individual company's financial trouble. All of the above are hurting investor confidence. And when you look around the corner at Dota2 or LoL, the objective choice for investors is to dump their money on these two other games which are growing (although I believe Dota2 and LoL are already reaching their peak of popularity). edit: On October 03 2013 01:33 NovemberstOrm wrote: That's completely incorrect,they move to NA/EU because they are smart even if you have a 40% chance to win WCS KR why stay there when you have better odds somewhere else? No, WCS could've been good for NA/EU for everyone if they actually had full offline events. What NA/EU scene is lacking is fan vs player interaction. Bisu claimed to have retired due to pressure and the lack of fans. And many koreans who played in NA/EU for the first time always point out how different and passionate the NA/EU fans are. Unfortunately, this interaction is limited to 3 weekends of the year in WCS finals. It's quite depressing really. | ||
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Incubus1993
Canada140 Posts
They didn't really improve the replay system as of late, as stated in two episodes of Meta pro players never use it because it takes too long to load the replay to practice scenarios, something they promised they were going to fix in that last patch but it didn't do anything lmao. Then there is the content and skins, the leveling system and skins are like a beta test that actually made it into the game. A completely uninspired effort. Everyone reaches level 30 with their races after like a month or less regardless of league. Then it's done. We rarely ever get new portraits and when we do there are barely any and they aren't cool. Then there is the skins, HotS has been out for more than half a year now and there is still no indication of adding more. They give us such limited options it has to be the biggest half ass effort I've seen. It isn't even debatable that blizzard has failed hardcore in these areas and that the game would be better if they made a concerted effort here. Younger and more casual players would be far more interested if there were more customization options to personalize the game while not affecting actual balance or gameplay. There ARE players who would be willing to spend money on this kind of stuff (how much who knows but it's there). It's a good way to keep newer players interested and stimulate the game without hurting it. WCS, it's a good idea and it's been fairly successful, but at the expense of the death of almost every other league and tournament in the scene. WCS undeniably hogs WAY too much of the game and stream time. It's WCS or nothing as a player and the fact that there is no residency lock/rules is clearly hurting opportunities for new players. What NA or EU player really wants to spend all that time for a slim chance to climb the ranks against better Korean players who are getting up early in the morning to dominate the NA and EU regions. If there was a residency (not citizenship) lock for WCS there would still be a handful of Koreans in NA and EU but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now. The bigger problem though is the fact WCS is such a fat fuck of a tree that almost all the other tournaments and leagues can't really grow because all the sunlight is getting hogged (lame analogy I know but it's accurate lol). Feels good to rant I needed to get that out, any ways my point is SC2 has the potential to be MUCH better but Blizzard squanders it because of their incompetence. It's being demonstrated heavily, just look at how many players and teams are leaving or cutting back in the past month. | ||
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:38 romanianthunder wrote: nope you are incorrect."smart" in this case means trianing in a korean teamhouse and then playing again foreigners who do not have teamhouse or if they do they are not as professional as the korean ones.And none of the koreans who are currently in the wcs na and eu would make it past the group stages in korea:MC,duckdeok,mvp,mma,hyun,polt,byul,hack,oz,apocalypse,hack,heart,forgg,genius,stardust stand exactly 0% chance of passing the group stages of the gsl or osl.This is why they ran form korea in the frst place.They ran not because they were winning anything.They ran once they became washed up. You didn't watch the last 2 season finals did you? | ||
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Spaylz
Japan1743 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:35 Baroninthetree wrote: Its how LOL does. Nobody cares about the skill level in LoL. The locals always own the viewship. Just look at the viewer number decline during group stage to bracket stage. Besides, LoL is not that an competitive game anyway. The winner not necessary means the best skill, at least that what most believes. Are you saying that for a game to be competitive, it has to be heavily skill-based? I mean sure, there's a correlation, but saying LoL is not a competitive game is straight up delusion. I seriously hate LoL don't get me wrong, but even I have to admit it is a competitive game, and the biggest one currently around at that. LoL is actually the one game which has the perfect mix right now, it caters to casuals and manages to be an astounding success as a competitive game. At all times of the day, LoL has 50+ viewers on twitch, culminating at 400k+ during LCS. It may not be the most skill intensive game out there, but it definitely crushed SC2 as far as exposure is concerned, and it is constantly growing as an e-sport. Anyone who claims LoL is not a competitive game or isn't suited for e-sport only has to look at the numbers and the sheer enthusiasm for the LCS to be proven wrong. | ||
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romanianthunder
Romania36 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:44 NovemberstOrm wrote: You didn't watch the last 2 season finals did you? i did. what does it have to do anything i said? | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
I just really want to see something go positive soon though. I've felt nothing but negative vibes coming off of SC2 recently. | ||
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braller
96 Posts
On October 03 2013 01:48 romanianthunder wrote: i did. what does it have to do anything i said? You said that none of the koreans in WCS NA or EU would make it past the group stages in the GSL, but several GSL players were outperformed by WCS NA/EU players at Season Finals. Also, Taeja is probably the best player in the world right now and he plays in WCS NA and not in a teamhouse, so yeah... | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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