|
On October 03 2013 02:15 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Just to add to that what would you rather watch 2 players that you don't know that are completely even matched that you know coming into the fight and they just duke it out and it be 50% chance of winning or Rooting for an underdog from your hometown that just destroys the competition in a 100 to 1 odds?
i do not mind watching underdogs but if the underdogs never win finals in years like in sc2 the interest dies slowy.when was the last time a foreigner won a major tournament in sc2?stephano's 2011 ipl 3?and that was the last one.:/
@drpandaphd
very few korean pros read chat since they know little english and they do not interract that much.and besides fxo korea was probably more interested in the korean market then the twitch kappa raise your dongers 420 ice swag 322 yolo money in the bank pimpin aint easy day 9 is dead rustled jimmies franker z twitch chat as a foreign viewer you could probably contribute very little to their succes ;/
|
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon
|
Meanwhile dota 2 gives no shits about Riot worlds numbers and just chugs along. Seriously, when are people going to stop looking at Riot huge eyes of envy and just claim that everyone needs to chase those numbers and fans.
And I am with StarStruck, if FXOBoss says the Korean team did nothing to help themselves, I believe him.
|
Hm I'm really hoping that Day[9]'s RTS is going to be awesome. At this point it's looking like the only hope for competitive RTS to still be a big eSport in a year or two. Some people might be okay with downsizing, but Korean Starcraft is pretty much the only Starcraft I watch. If the sponsors, fan girls, and well produced shows are gone my interest in Starcraft will be much lower.
|
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon
You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis?
|
On October 03 2013 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Meanwhile dota 2 gives no shits about Riot worlds numbers and just chugs along. Seriously, when are people going to stop looking at Riot huge eyes of envy and just claim that everyone needs to chase those numbers and fans.
actually, valve has puts a lot of effort to compete with riot. LoL has less pc requirements than dota 2. this year valve has released 3 patches where is needed less RAM, the performance of the machine is better, or run better in windows xp.
oh, and the dota community talk about LoL more often than the sc2 community 
|
I personally feel people have to be patient with WCS. It's relatively new. WCS is going to be a very good thing for SC because we have always needed a single primary league, like the NBA, or the NFL, but transitions take time. There are always corrections that have to be made, and other companies/models that resist the unification will have to fail. That's natural.
If we're patient, WCS will allow a complete restructuring of teams and business models. I also have a feeling that crowd-funding will become a bigger and bigger part of eSports soon.
Instead of trying to compete with WCS, people need to consider supplementing it. Like college sports and high school sports. There need to be major leagues for lower level players so they can step their way up to the big leagues just like mainstream sports. Imagine if there was no high school or college basketball, who would go straight from playing for fun with their friends to training for the NBA? Not many people. You have to have motivation and opportunity in stages. If the WCS makes SC more stable at the top end, then there will be a lot of money on the lower end for people who want to compete in leagues that help them become drafted by teams who will support their WCS travels and competition, etc.
It's important to keep in mind that just because some of these guys say WCS is hurting StarCraft doesn't make it true. Maybe WCS is hurting their business model, but that just means their business model has to adapt. It's like saying cell phones hurt land lines, or the internet hurt newspapers. Tough. Get over it. Adapt and evolve, if you really want to continue being relevant.
I wish these guys the best of luck, and I hope everyone will continue working hard to make StarCraft more stable.
|
There used to be so many small tournaments that don't seem to exist anymore and it really is a shame. Everyone wants to have some giant prize pool and massive event when I feel like more talent was coming out when we had the ESV tourney going along with all of the other little things.
|
On October 03 2013 02:25 romanianthunder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:15 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Just to add to that what would you rather watch 2 players that you don't know that are completely even matched that you know coming into the fight and they just duke it out and it be 50% chance of winning or Rooting for an underdog from your hometown that just destroys the competition in a 100 to 1 odds? i do not mind watching underdogs but if the underdogs never win finals in years like in sc2 the interest dies slowy.
Do you mean like when Soulkey didn't beat innovation, or when Maru didn't beat Rain?
|
Canada16217 Posts
On October 03 2013 02:34 shockaslim wrote:
There used to be so many small tournaments that don't seem to exist anymore and it really is a shame. Everyone wants to have some giant prize pool and massive event when I feel like more talent was coming out when we had the ESV tourney going along with all of the other little things.
With WCS ongoing it gives no time for other small tournaments to compete, because realistically you wouldn't want to compete with WCS as your viewer numbers will definitely suffer.
|
Canada13389 Posts
On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis?
The best thing is to let OSL and GSL be themselves again, maybe with a seperate WCS or perhaps make WCS a thing and let GSL/OSL battle it out over who to be the 2nd tournament. By limiting the chances to play like WCS has it has done some negative to the korean scene but then again who is to say there were sponsors in the first place?
All this does is push OGN to be more likely to ignore SC2 since hell Blizz and WCS is doing it.
Force players to reside where they play for WCS and its all good.
|
On October 03 2013 02:18 romanianthunder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:12 StarStruck wrote:On October 03 2013 02:09 romanianthunder wrote:On October 03 2013 01:58 NovemberstOrm wrote:On October 03 2013 01:56 romanianthunder wrote:On October 03 2013 01:51 braller wrote:On October 03 2013 01:48 romanianthunder wrote:On October 03 2013 01:44 NovemberstOrm wrote:On October 03 2013 01:38 romanianthunder wrote:On October 03 2013 01:33 NovemberstOrm wrote:
[quote]
That's completely incorrect,they move to NA/EU because they are smart even if you have a 40% chance to win WCS KR why stay there when you have better odds somewhere else? nope you are incorrect."smart" in this case means trianing in a korean teamhouse and then playing again foreigners who do not have teamhouse or if they do they are not as professional as the korean ones.And none of the koreans who are currently in the wcs na and eu would make it past the group stages in korea:MC,duckdeok,mvp,mma,hyun,polt,byul,hack,oz,apocalypse,hack,heart,forgg,genius,stardust stand exactly 0% chance of passing the group stages of the gsl or osl.This is why they ran form korea in the frst place.They ran not because they were winning anything.They ran once they became washed up. You didn't watch the last 2 season finals did you? i did. what does it have to do anything i said? You said that none of the koreans in WCS NA or EU would make it past the group stages in the GSL, but several GSL players were outperformed by WCS NA/EU players at Season Finals. Also, Taeja is probably the best player in the world right now and he plays in WCS NA and not in a teamhouse, so yeah... wrong.because in the season finals you meet weaker players than in the korean wcs where you meet top players from the top korean teams constantly.korea only sends to the season finals a couple of players out of the many good ones.washed up koreans playing in the wcs eu/na usually have good results against themselves and also because they have extensive tournament experience playing in foreign tournaments.Give a foreigner the same shot and they will give the same results.if they are so good they can play in wcs korea where many of them have never won anything in months or even years or maybe never.Oh I forget it is harder to meet the best koreans constantly then once a year, You're just making excuses. nope its true.the only reason you do not notice it is because region lock was never given a chance in sc2 and foreigners never developed/just look at a game which also dominates korea and has region lock:league of legends.KOreans are also seen there as the best in the world and imba and guess what happened at this world championships?Out of the 3 korean teams one could not even make it out of the group stages,beign beaten by european teams and another one finished its group in second place being a chinesse team(albeit they are in the final now).This is what happens when koreans aren't aloud to swarm a tournament.They get only 1 spot in the finals.No total dominance. Okay now that is bullshit. The recent patch and Samsung didn't show up to play. That's why everyone is knocking Dade. In any case it's going to be a stomp for the Koreans. We already seen what the Chinese did to EU and the same thing would have happened if it was NA. The bracket/format for Riot's World's is one of the most ridiculous formats we've ever seen. It's really, really bad when it comes to formatting so please don't bring that up again. "The recent patch and Samsung didn't show up to play. " What type is explanation is that?So only mvp ozone receive the patch the other teams were playing on lol clients with different patches?lol.They had the same playing field and were eliminated by european teams(very good ones actually).and sk the team in the final got defeated twice in the group stages by a chinesse team. "In any case it's going to be a stomp for the Koreans " no it is already antistomp.1 kr team in the finals out of 3 is not a stomp.a stomp is 15 koreans out of 16 players in wcs ranking like sc2 has.that is a stomp. " It's really, really bad when it comes to formatting so please don't bring that up again " the hundreds of thousands of players who watch the group stages and the millions who will watch the final disagree with you.And i do not even like lol.i do not even watch that thing but they have a much better buit scene than sc2.
No. I take it you don't watch LoL? LoL is patched regularly. Certain champs get buffed/nerfed so if your pool of characters is targeted it could have pretty dramatic effects when it comes to the competitive landscape. Dade plays mid and there were only a handful of characters he's accustomed to. When you get those patch notes you have a limited amount of time to figure your shit out-- what's viable to roll mid et cetera. Dade was in an unfortunate position where a lot of his heroes just wouldn't make the cut and this happens to a lot of players. Not just Dade (for example Hai's champ pool was diminished by that patch too -- his champ pool prior was pretty decent but not at world's), so he found himself in a very precarious position and he was dumb enough to say the Korean teams would have no problems against NA/EU/China you name it. He came into World's being too cocky and they got stomped a number of times. As a coach I know it's always important to keep your players in line and likewise Dade bite too much than he could chew. At the end of the day, Dade played terribly. That's why you'd see a lot of people mocking him at the moment. As for Fnatic and the rest of the other teams i.e. C9. They still have a long, long way to go.
Hundreds of thousands of players who watch the group stages? Dude do you even participate in the LoL discussions? I think you're talking out of your ass. Time and time again I see people bring up Riot's format in this section but we really have to question if they take notice to what the LoLers are saying (they tend to only focus on the region locking mechanic) and pay no attention to things like the Wild Card, seedings/placement, etc. A lot of people are unhappy with it. You do not like LoL. I have a hard time believing you actually pay any attention to it as well.
|
On October 03 2013 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Meanwhile dota 2 gives no shits about Riot worlds numbers and just chugs along. Seriously, when are people going to stop looking at Riot huge eyes of envy and just claim that everyone needs to chase those numbers and fans.
And I am with StarStruck, if FXOBoss says the Korean team did nothing to help themselves, I believe him.
All they want to do is play. :V
|
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 03 2013 02:36 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? The best thing is to let OSL and GSL be themselves again, maybe with a seperate WCS or perhaps make WCS a thing and let GSL/OSL battle it out over who to be the 2nd tournament. By limiting the chances to play like WCS has it has done some negative to the korean scene but then again who is to say there were sponsors in the first place? All this does is push OGN to be more likely to ignore SC2 since hell Blizz and WCS is doing it. Force players to reside where they play for WCS and its all good.
Tbh i can agree with it. May elaborate what do you mean under last line though? Also, i am actually bothered with the deal that Code B qualifiers are probably harder than Code S Ro16 and Ro32, Soulkey can probably confirm it (he tried to qualify for Code A, but failed, and was seeded into Code S next season), so if you mean forcing koreans to reside in WCS KR they are screwed.
|
On October 03 2013 02:35 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:25 romanianthunder wrote:On October 03 2013 02:15 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Just to add to that what would you rather watch 2 players that you don't know that are completely even matched that you know coming into the fight and they just duke it out and it be 50% chance of winning or Rooting for an underdog from your hometown that just destroys the competition in a 100 to 1 odds? i do not mind watching underdogs but if the underdogs never win finals in years like in sc2 the interest dies slowy. Do you mean like when Soulkey didn't beat innovation, or when Maru didn't beat Rain?
if you would actually pay attention to the context of the discussion | was having you would notice I was reffering to a foreigner underdog vs a korean.Also nice to cut off the part where the last foreigner to win a major tournament was stephano in 2011 with ipl.And btw i actually watched soulkey vs innovation all 7 games live.this is why koreans need to stay in korea.to play against simmilar great players with simmilar training environments and to provide competitive games and competitive series.innovation vs a random foreiner will neve result in the foreigner coming back form 3-0 to win with 4-3.
|
Because of WCS, all the foundations have crumbled. If things go like this again next year, then StarCraft 2 teams will be hurt even more."
Sadly Choya doesn't really develop his point of view, why does he dislike the current system ...
|
We were happy with sc2, but everything changed when the WCS attacked.
|
On October 03 2013 02:38 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:29 Plansix wrote:
Meanwhile dota 2 gives no shits about Riot worlds numbers and just chugs along. Seriously, when are people going to stop looking at Riot huge eyes of envy and just claim that everyone needs to chase those numbers and fans.
And I am with StarStruck, if FXOBoss says the Korean team did nothing to help themselves, I believe him. All they want to do is play. :V
It's weird that they didn't do anything to help their sponsor. EG may not win everything or a lot, but they at least know how to keep their players paid and sponsors happy. You don't see any EU team blaming WCS when they lose a sponsor.
|
On October 03 2013 02:36 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? The best thing is to let OSL and GSL be themselves again, maybe with a seperate WCS or perhaps make WCS a thing and let GSL/OSL battle it out over who to be the 2nd tournament. By limiting the chances to play like WCS has it has done some negative to the korean scene but then again who is to say there were sponsors in the first place? All this does is push OGN to be more likely to ignore SC2 since hell Blizz and WCS is doing it. Force players to reside where they play for WCS and its all good.
Yes but whose to say OGN would have even continued with SC2? Bear in mind, LOL was already pushing SC2 out of certain timeslots.
|
On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis?
I never said regular basis thats what a region lock does..... Makes it so the other players get more exposure instead of seeing the same koreans everygame and encouraging the scene globally.... This will encourage each local people not only get more into the game because they want to be in the scene too it allows them to relate to their players, so it encourages higher competition and more and more people will want to play because of that and will increase viewers naturally .... If I'm a foreigner in SeA or NA or EU if koreans are there what do I feel my chances are to winning the tournament or even posting good results...... slim to none.... so even the ones that take a stab at it Barely go anywhere unless you are naniwa or Scarlett it just doesn't happen........ So again its like watching the same tournament over and over again with the same faces.... even my wife says "wait isn't that the same guy???? Is there anyone else that plays" lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
