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On August 09 2013 06:37 BronzeKnee wrote:
But those are performances from a team league... this is individual rankings. There is a big difference.
And again:
There is an individual league where the best players play, WCS KR. These are the statistics (of games won/lost, not matches won lost) from this month of that league:
Maru: 11-5
Innovation: 7-6
When I used to drag race my car (at the track), there was an old saying, "We don't race dyno sheets, we race cars." You might think the 900 HP Supra is going to beat the 700 HP Viper, but we actually race the cars to figure out who wins.
Now we play the game to find out who is better right, we don't just look at statistics, right?
This was the winner when they went head to head :
Maru 4-0 - Advances to the Final.
Innovation 0-4 - Eliminated.
So who was better?
But the power rank isn't just about individual leagues, it also includes team leagues. It's a combination of results in a month, not just how a player advances in an individual league. Maru's 11-5 is incorrect to compare to Innovation's 17-4 in matches btw, Maru is actually 6-2 in matches overall this month -- my mistake. I'd conceive that it's possible Maru could beat Rain and still not trump Innovation in ranking in August if Innovation continues on this tear.
Also, for like the fourth time, them fighting head to head doesn't mean everything. This barely has more of a basis to stand on than the unofficial world champion thread. Theres three match-ups. Maru beat Innovation in just one of them, and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable.
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Decent ranking. Pretty accurate for the past month.
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On August 08 2013 23:58 Ammanas wrote:lol at Taeja and Supernova. lol at Maru being above Bomber. Other than that pretty good 
Maru is above Bomber.
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On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable.
And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke.
Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved (they couldn't even put him above Rain, and Rain defeats Bomber, yet Maru defeats the #1 in their power rank!).
And neither do you.
You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings!
And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. You look at the dyno sheet, and you think "man this guy is gonna win this race, he is the best."
But we don't race dyno sheets, we race cars.
And the race is over, Maru won, even though his dyno sheet was less impressive. And the race wasn't even close.
Whether or not you want to accept his win, that is up to you.
Congratulations Maru.
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"to no one's surprise, he's up at #1 again." INnoVation number one? Come on. He got knocked out of the quarterfinals in one of the most pitiful displays. It wasn't even close! And against a huge underdog, too. It was no upset, it was just showing that he could be targeted and prepared for like any other player. TvT isn't even Maru's best matchup. Clearly, INnoVation has some serious weaknesses. Maru straight up demolished him.
Also, INnoVation won a single game in the finals, and it wasn't even ace. By that standard you could say that Mini/Trap/Classic "led their team to victory"... come on. Power Rank, not Hype Rank, please.
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On August 09 2013 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable. And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke. Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved. And neither do you. You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings! And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. This is a joke.
The power rank is also marginally based on the players' past performances. On paper before the match, Innovation is much stronger than Maru. 4-0 is a monumental upset, and Maru has not yet proven nor has even been able to prove that result to be representative of any consistency in repeating such dominating wins. Do you understand? Maru lacks sufficient data to rank above Innovation.
If Innovation won four times in a row and was ranked #1 for it, it's PRECISELY because it's Innovation. It's because Innovation has a history of performances that would indicate such a 4-0 to be consistent with his level of play. It's not bias -- if anyone is biased here it's you. The statistics are also biased, most definitely biased towards Innovation because they're just flat out better this month despite dropping 4 straight maps.
I think jumping from non-existence to #4 in one month is a pretty accurate nod to Maru's 4-0 over innovation.
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On August 09 2013 06:56 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable. And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke. Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved. And neither do you. You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings! And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. This is a joke. The power rank is also marginally based on the players' past performances. On paper before the match, Innovation is much stronger than Maru. 4-0 is a monumental upset, and Maru has not yet proven nor has even been able to prove that result to be representative of any consistency in repeating such dominating wins. Do you understand? Maru lacks sufficient data to rank above Innovation. If Innovation won four times in a row and was ranked #1 for it, it's not because it's Innovation. It's because Innovation has a history of performances that would indicate such a 4-0 to be consistent with his level of play. It's not bias -- if anyone is biased here it's you.
Tell that to all the writers who put Matt Serra #1 when he beat GSP (and I saw no ranking that had him anywhere by #1). Tell to any other sports community that ranks the way I am advocating. When the Patriots won the Superbowl in 2001, guess who was ranked #1?
Oh yeah the Patriots, not the heavily favored Rams, who had just recently won a Superbowl. The Rams weren't #1, because they didn't win!
Your logic is wrong. This is a power rank, that doesn't predict mind you.
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On August 09 2013 06:58 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:56 rd wrote:On August 09 2013 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable. And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke. Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved. And neither do you. You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings! And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. This is a joke. The power rank is also marginally based on the players' past performances. On paper before the match, Innovation is much stronger than Maru. 4-0 is a monumental upset, and Maru has not yet proven nor has even been able to prove that result to be representative of any consistency in repeating such dominating wins. Do you understand? Maru lacks sufficient data to rank above Innovation. If Innovation won four times in a row and was ranked #1 for it, it's not because it's Innovation. It's because Innovation has a history of performances that would indicate such a 4-0 to be consistent with his level of play. It's not bias -- if anyone is biased here it's you. Tell that to all the writers who put Matt Serra #1 when he beat GSP (and I saw no ranking that had him anywhere by #1). Tell to any other sports community. Your logic is wrong. This is a power rank, that doesn't predict mind you.
That is entirely irrelevant. This isn't some other sports community, this is the power rank, and that is how it has always been. Keep the context within SC2.
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On August 09 2013 07:00 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:56 rd wrote:On August 09 2013 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable. And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke. Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved. And neither do you. You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings! And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. This is a joke. The power rank is also marginally based on the players' past performances. On paper before the match, Innovation is much stronger than Maru. 4-0 is a monumental upset, and Maru has not yet proven nor has even been able to prove that result to be representative of any consistency in repeating such dominating wins. Do you understand? Maru lacks sufficient data to rank above Innovation. If Innovation won four times in a row and was ranked #1 for it, it's not because it's Innovation. It's because Innovation has a history of performances that would indicate such a 4-0 to be consistent with his level of play. It's not bias -- if anyone is biased here it's you. Tell that to all the writers who put Matt Serra #1 when he beat GSP (and I saw no ranking that had him anywhere by #1). Tell to any other sports community. Your logic is wrong. This is a power rank, that doesn't predict mind you. That is entirely irrelevant. This isn't some other sports community, this is the power rank, and that is how it has always been. Keep the context within SC2.
The #1 team in any sports fails to remain the #1 team when they are eliminated. You understand this correct?
But let me pretend to be a SC2 outsider, and we are watching the OSL finals, with the #2 and #4 player in the world competing.
And then you tell me "hey look, there is Innovation, he is the #1 player in the world!"
And I say "how come he isn't playing?"
And you respond "well he lost to Maru, the #4, he got swept badly"
And I respond "well how can he still be the #1, when got swept by the #4?"
What is your response?
But before you respond, if it is filled with excuses about how Maru cheesed, save it, because that is bias. And what I plan to do is then replace Maru and Innovation with teams or individuals from other sports, and we'll see how silly your logic is.
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On August 09 2013 07:04 BronzeKnee wrote:
The #1 team in any sports fails to remain the #1 team when they are eliminated. You understand this correct?
But let me pretend to be a SC2 outsider, and we are watching the OSL finals, with the #2 and #4 player in the world competing.
And then you tell me "hey look, there is Innovation, he is the #1 player in the world!"
And I say "how come he isn't playing?"
And you respond "well he lost to Maru, the #4, he got swept badly"
And I respond "well how can he still be the #1, when got swept by the #4?"
What is your response?
But before you respond, if it is filled with excuses about how Maru cheesed, save it, because that is bias.
Why are you stuck on thinking this is a head-to-head ranking on WCS?
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To anyone that thinks Maru is better than Innovation, let's just take a hypothetical situation for Tennis:
Djokovic gets beaten by del Potro 6-1, 6-2, 6-1.
Is del Potro now the best tennis player in the world?
We're not on the world champion sc2 thread, we're actually trying to figure out who the best player in the world currently is. The best players should be able to take games off the others, it's not like if you're at the highest level you have an invulnerable shield around you to those below you; you're just favored. And honestly, who right now wouldn't favor Innovation against anybody?
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On August 09 2013 06:54 0317`Strike- wrote:
"to no one's surprise, he's up at #1 again." INnoVation number one? Come on. He got knocked out of the quarterfinals in one of the most pitiful displays. It wasn't even close! And against a huge underdog, too. It was no upset, it was just showing that he could be targeted and prepared for like any other player. TvT isn't even Maru's best matchup. Clearly, INnoVation has some serious weaknesses. Maru straight up demolished him.
Also, INnoVation won a single game in the finals, and it wasn't even ace. By that standard you could say that Mini/Trap/Classic "led their team to victory"... come on. Power Rank, not Hype Rank, please.
The only one hyping anything is you (in this case anti-hype). Innovation won 2 ace matches vs SKT. He was 6-1 in the playoffs. Of course he led his team to the championship.
In Code S he 2-0'd both Flash and Bbyong, and 3-0'd Soulkey. He qualified for IEM and hasn't lost a map yet in WCG. Other than one shit match, how can you not say he's not #1?
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On August 09 2013 07:04 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:00 rd wrote:On August 09 2013 06:58 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:56 rd wrote:On August 09 2013 06:51 BronzeKnee wrote:On August 09 2013 06:47 rd wrote:
and the magnitude of how hard Maru won is questionable. And this why these rankings are a total and complete joke. Because the writers think Innovation is amazing and thought his loss was a sham. They don't respect Maru, don't respect what he achieved. And neither do you. You and I know both know, that the writers and yourself, would not have questioned anything if Innovation won 4 straight against Maru in the same way Maru beat Innovation. You would have thought they Maru can't even stop basic cheeses, man he is terrible, what a joke. Heck, he would have never made the rankings! And when you have that kind of bias, there is nothing else to discuss. This is a joke. The power rank is also marginally based on the players' past performances. On paper before the match, Innovation is much stronger than Maru. 4-0 is a monumental upset, and Maru has not yet proven nor has even been able to prove that result to be representative of any consistency in repeating such dominating wins. Do you understand? Maru lacks sufficient data to rank above Innovation. If Innovation won four times in a row and was ranked #1 for it, it's not because it's Innovation. It's because Innovation has a history of performances that would indicate such a 4-0 to be consistent with his level of play. It's not bias -- if anyone is biased here it's you. Tell that to all the writers who put Matt Serra #1 when he beat GSP (and I saw no ranking that had him anywhere by #1). Tell to any other sports community. Your logic is wrong. This is a power rank, that doesn't predict mind you. That is entirely irrelevant. This isn't some other sports community, this is the power rank, and that is how it has always been. Keep the context within SC2. The #1 team in any sports fails to remain the #1 team when they are eliminated. You understand this correct? But let me pretend to be a SC2 outsider, and we are watching the OSL finals, with the #2 and #4 player in the world competing. And then you tell me "hey look, there is Innovation, he is the #1 player in the world!" And I say "how come he isn't playing?" And you respond "well he lost to Maru, the #4, he got swept badly" And I respond "well how can he still be the #1, when got swept by the #4?" What is your response? But before you respond, if it is filled with excuses about how Maru cheesed, save it, because that is bias. And what I plan to do is then replace Maru and Innovation with teams or individuals from other sports, and we'll see how silly your logic is.
INoVation had far better results against more accomplished players in the last month than Maru. Their match factors in but it doesn't decide it all. To stay in your picture: Chelsea may have won last years Champions League over Barcelona and Bayern Munich, but no one in their right mind would have called them Europes best team because of it.
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On August 09 2013 03:55 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:51 Arceus wrote:
So SuperNova SCV-pulling his heart out and consistently aggressive allins net him the 6th spot. Theres one thing Im sure about this dude: once he falls out of the league, hes out for good.
Taeja's place is actually not surprising. We all know he would get a spot whenever he won another yet another euro tourney To be fair, people said Supernova were out for good after he dropped out of the GSL just before getting his Nestea award, yet here he is again. If there is one thing you can never say in Starcraft, it's that someone is out for good. Look at July in BW or Mvp in WoL. These guys are good, even when they're not winning.
I don't understand why someppl hate scv pulls so much while late game protoss or immortal bust is a lot more disgusting.
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Nice writeup thanks alot!
I was a bit suprised on seeing supernova there but whatever
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This isnt what we used to call a power rank... This is a ranking by results when it used to be about level of play. I dont think anyone would favor Taeja or Hyun in a box vs flash or jangbi for example.
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On August 09 2013 07:13 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:54 0317`Strike- wrote:
"to no one's surprise, he's up at #1 again." INnoVation number one? Come on. He got knocked out of the quarterfinals in one of the most pitiful displays. It wasn't even close! And against a huge underdog, too. It was no upset, it was just showing that he could be targeted and prepared for like any other player. TvT isn't even Maru's best matchup. Clearly, INnoVation has some serious weaknesses. Maru straight up demolished him.
Also, INnoVation won a single game in the finals, and it wasn't even ace. By that standard you could say that Mini/Trap/Classic "led their team to victory"... come on. Power Rank, not Hype Rank, please.
The only one hyping anything is you (in this case anti-hype). Innovation won 2 ace matches vs SKT. He was 6-1 in the playoffs. Of course he led his team to the championship. In Code S he 2-0'd both Flash and Bbyong, and 3-0'd Soulkey. He qualified for IEM and hasn't lost a map yet in WCG. Other than one shit match, how can you not say he's not #1?
Almost every one of the results you reference were accomplished before the JUNE power rank (Code S, the 2 ace matches vs. SKT, and every game except one in playoffs), when, like you say, INnoVation was clearly #1. Qualifying for IEM, rofl, any KeSPA player could've qualified. Life actually won the thing.
"Other than that one shit match"... which was by far the most important match he's played between these Power Ranks.
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Thanks to the PR writers! It's very hard to tell relative strength of the players with such little cross-pollination (at least until the Season Finals).
Get yo practice on, Flash, so you can top the ranking soon!
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On August 09 2013 07:34 Elroi wrote:
This isnt what we used to call a power rank... This is a ranking by results when it used to be about level of play. I dont think anyone would favor Taeja or Hyun in a box vs flash or jangbi for example.
No it's always been about (less you're referring to BW rankings):
Results: Obviously, this will be the basis of any power rank. And since this is a monthly power rank, we'll be mainly focusing on results from the last month, that is the month of July. Previous HotS results will also be taken into account as well, but with less weight.
Difficulty of opponents: Let's put it this way: if the PR existed last year, we probably wouldn't have given PartinG the #1 spot for his BWC run.
Quality of play: How impressed were we with this player's performance, especially over the last month?
Summary, not a predictor: The PR is a rating based on previous results, not a scouting report for who will do well in the future. We can't believe this is not completely obvious.
Didn't see any complaints when there were more Kespa players in the last two because of SPL. Just this past OSL we have a lot of unexpected newer players that broke out in HotS because they have no consistent league to keep a good pulse on them.
Hyun and Taeja I think can both take Jangbi btw.
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EPT
