EPT1. Bomber
2. Taeja
3. Jaedong
4. Rain
5. Maru
6. First
7. Polt
8. Innovation
9. Scarlett
10. Naniwa
P.S. : People should learn now to not underestimate WCS NA.
SC2 Power Rank - August 2013 - Page 19
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painkilla
United States695 Posts
1. Bomber 2. Taeja 3. Jaedong 4. Rain 5. Maru 6. First 7. Polt 8. Innovation 9. Scarlett 10. Naniwa P.S. : People should learn now to not underestimate WCS NA. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/mirror/smilies/pukey.gif) | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On August 26 2013 03:55 TheDougler wrote: + Show Spoiler + And it'll be nice to see Jaedong back on the PR (after back to back finals I'd be shocked if he wasn't). We're getting closer to see a foreigner on the PR I'd say. Given that there's no proleague this month WCS will likely account for more than it has in the past. + Show Spoiler + I have a feeling that Scarlett will be 10th place actually My super biased and terrible power rank: + Show Spoiler + 1. TaeJa 2. Bomber 3. Jaedong 4. Maru 5. INnoVation 6. Rain 7. First 8. Soulkey 9. duckdeok 10. Scarlett | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Despite Bogus looking more mortal than ever, he's still nabbing his share of results and past HotS accomplishments carry at least some weight so I don't think much can knock him out of the top 5. Maybe if he bombs in his ro32 code S group. 1) Bomber 2) Taeja 3) Bogus 4) Jaedong then it gets hazy where Polt, First, PartinG(won WCG KR), Maru, Rain, and Soulkey should make up the rest. close but no cigar: Scarlett, Sora, MC, Finale, Naniwa | ||
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SaltySam
65 Posts
Duckdeok has the same issue with only showing good results from PvP. He has yet to prove himself in the other match-ups. Someone who has proven themselves in multiple match-ups against top players should take priority. This is non-biased. Ranking: + Show Spoiler + 1-3. Bomber/Innovation/Soulkey 4-7. Taeja/SuperNova/Maru/Rain 8-10. First/Jaedong/Polt Bomber has top 5 TvT and TvP while having great TvZ.. Taeja has top 5 TvT, (great-top 5) TvP and good TvZ. Innovation has the best TvZ, top 5 TvT, and good TvP. Soulkey has the best ZvT, maybe best ZvZ and has (moderate-good) ZvP. SuperNova has top 5 TvZ and TvP, and good TvT. Maru has top 5 TvP, top 5 or top 10 TvT (not sure after his loss to aLive), and good TvZ. Rain has top 5 PvT, top 10 PvP or higher, and moderate PvZ. First has top 5 PvT, good PvP, and moderate PvZ. Jaedong has (great-top5) ZvP, (great-top5) ZvZ, and moderate ZvT. Polt has top 5 TvT, good TvP, and good TvZ. Best>>=Top 5>>top 10>=great>>good>>moderate Top 3 is a toss up. Soulkey hasn't played enough games vs other top players this month. He is easily the best Zerg, but not enough recent matches to gauge his ZvZ and ZvP. Bomber has one of the best TvTs and TvPs, but don't know how his TvZ stakes up against Soulkey. Innovation has showed vastly improved TvT and can fight evenly with any of the Terran in the WCS Finals. His TvZ is still the best by far, but not able to gauge his TvP because we don't know how they compare to First, and etc. Taeja's win vs Rain wasn't that impressive because Rain wasn't playing as well as in WCS KR. Besides his win vs Rain he has no recent relevant TvP matches. Hard to gauge his level there. He hasn't played a bo3 TvZ vs anyone high level in a long time so can't gauge it on current information. He lost to Nerchio in bo1 and barely won a bo3 TvZ vs HyuN. HyuN lost to heromarine the end of August. Either HyuN is slumping, heromarine is really good, or Taeja's TvZ isn't great. There is no doubt that Taeja is one of the best TvT players in the world though. Maru and Rain's lackluster performance at WCS Finals keeps them there. Supernova hasn't done enough. ZvP skill is hard to gauge now. Many Protoss have inconsistent or not very good PvZ. So slaughtering Protoss isn't that impressive at the moment. So it's hard to rank Jaedong highly. The only reason Jaedong is on here is because most other players haven't played matches is so long that I don't know where they stand. Jaedong has high level ZvZ, but I don't know how it ranks compared to the WCS KR Zergs. His TvZ leaves much to be desired. Polt was definitely not on the same level as First. He played well though. Polt's TvZ is hard to rank. The most recent loss in TvZ was to Revival who hasn't played another ZvT is over a month. No clue. Polt's TvT is no doubt one of the best. First is one of the best PvT players. With Parting and Naniwa showing great TvP and Dear and sOs defeating SuperNova...it's hard to know who has the best TvP and where everyone stands. sOs should be on this list, but it's not fair considering how little he has played compared to the others. First like all other top Protoss is in PvZ limbo. I have no idea how it ranks up compared to other Protoss. He hasn't played enough PvP. The reality could be very different from this ranking. We shall see in the coming months where everyone stands. Bomber + Show Spoiler + TvT: Beating top tier Terrans consistently. Top 5 TvT. TvP: Beating First who is a Top tier TvP. Lost to Rain in TvP recently. Top 5 TvP. TvZ: Lost to Life and barely defeated Scarlett recently. (Jaedong's ZvT isn't Top Tier so beating him doesn't mean much). Too hard to gauge. Innovation, Supernova, and Soulkey > Bomber = Scarlett Innovation + Show Spoiler + TvT: Lost to Taeja but gave him trouble with mech. Taeja gave Polt+Bomber trouble. His TvT should be lower end of the Top 5. TvZ: Consistently defeats Soulkey who has showcased the best ZvT. Number 1 TvZ. TvP: Lost to Naniwa and Parting. Both of whom haven't played enough TvP so it's hard to gauge their tier. Beat Zest who beat Maru two weeks before he won WCS Korea. Hard to gauge. Taeja + Show Spoiler + TvT: Barely lost to Bomber and Polt. Barely defeated Innovation. Top 5 TvP. TvZ: Last relevant match: Lost one game to Nerchio. Barely defeated HyuN, (8-02) Not enough to gauge. TvP: Defeated Rain who defeated Bomber a few weeks ago. Rain wasn't in top form, so it doesn't look as impressive as beating First. First + Show Spoiler + PvT: Defeated a Terran who almost beat Rain. Has shown great PvT. Top 5 PvT. PvZ: Lost to Jaedong who defeated every protoss at WCS S2 Finals. Not able to gauge. PvP: Loss to Creator, (7-27). Not enough matches to gauge. Jaedong: + Show Spoiler + ZvP: The Protoss he beat recently haven't shown great PvZ in recent times. Very good PvZ, but need him to play against good PvZ players before I rank him higher. ZvT: Lost to Bomber and Polt lopsidedly. Not Top tier. ZvZ: Barely defeated Scarlett who was barely defeated by Life who was handily defeated by Soulkey. Lost one game to Ret. Not enough relevant ZvZ for the month, but has shown great ZvZ consistency. Soulkey + Show Spoiler + ZvT: Is the only Zerg to put up a fight against Innovation. Number 1 ZvT. Last relevant matches: Losses to Innovation, (8-18, 8-03). Loss to Supernova, (8-06) ZvP: Last relevant matches: Loss to Sora, (8-17). Not enough games to gauge. ZvZ: Last relevant matches: Win vs Coca, (7-28). Win vs Life (7-26). He has only lost two ZvZ games in HOTS. SK handily defeated Life who barely defeated Scarlett who was barely defeated by Jaedong. Not enough relevant ZvZ this month, but has shown great ZvZ consistency. SuperNova + Show Spoiler + TvZ: Beat Soulkey a couple weeks ago. Top 5 TvZ. TvP: Barely lost to First and Rain. Top 5 TvP. Last relevant matches: Barely lost to Rain, (7-25). Barely lost to First, (8-06). Barely lost to Hurricane, (8-11) TvT: SN has won irrelevant TvT matches and lost none in over a month. Unknown. Maru: + Show Spoiler + TvZ: Lost to Scarlett. (Match against Symbol was too long ago and his ZvT wasn't great) Not enough information to gauge. TvT: Defeated Innovation easily 3 weeks ago. Lost to Alive and beat MMA. Alive has never been this good before and MMA's inability to take long series against top tier players makes this hard to gauge. At least top 10. TvP: Defeated Rain. Top 5 TvP. Rain + Show Spoiler + PvT: Defeated Bomber handily and barely defeated SuperNova. Lost horribly to Taeja. Top 5 PvT. PvZ: Last relevant matches: Lost to Jaedong, (8-23). One win and loss against hyvaa, who has a bad record against Protoss. Not enough information to be accurate. Definitely not top tier though. PvP: Has only lost one PvP series in over a month to Parting. Maybe Top 10 PvP. Polt + Show Spoiler + TvT: Barely beating Taeja recently. Top 5 TvT. TvP: Lost to First twice. Polt played well, but First was a level above him. Not Top Tier TvP. TvZ: Last relevant matches: Easily defeated Jaedong, (8-11). Barely lost to Revival who has only played one TvZ in almost two months, (07-27). No way to gauge. It's really hard to gauge everyone's tier placement. There aren't enough samples. Many top players don't have many recent games or they haven't fought Top Tier players in certain match-ups. Close, but no cigar: Alive has never played at this level before. So we can't compare the Alive at WCS AM to the one at the S2 Finals. We should wait to see his consistency. Scarlett clearly has high level ZvT, but we don't know how it matches up against other top terrans. Also, many zergs haven't been in the higher levels of the WCS so it's hard to gauge all the other zerg's proficiency in any matchup. Scarlett hasn't shown high level ZvP. Beating MacSed doesn't mean high level ZvP. Scarlett almost beat Jaedong, so great ZvZ. Naniwa hasn't fought any proven Top Tier TvP players so we don't know how high his PvT ranks. He beat Duckdeok, but lost two times before that. Naniwa beat Innovation and MMA, but we don't know how high their PvT ranks. Naniwa's PvZ isn't Top Tier. Revival hasn't beaten a top player in a month. So it's hard to gauge him. He has a good record though. Honorable Mentions: Parting won KR WCG, but I can't gauge how his PvT matches up to the top 10 terrans. Also, he hasn't shown good ZvP in a long time. Sora has been on fire lately, but I haven't seen enough matches from him yet. Duckdeok won WCS EU, but hasn't shown great PvT or PvZ. Hyun lost to San who lost to Targa. So, bad ZvP. Good ZvT. Great ZvZ. Not good enough for top 10 though. I'll edit this once the KR premier league happens. EDIT: Some changes. | ||
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
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Pandain
United States12985 Posts
Only way in which he's failing is strategy, his mechanics are still the best. Being weak to cheese doesn't make him #2 to Soulkey, Jaedong, or Rain. Jaedong has consistantly struggled with TvZ while Innovation is strong in all match-ups. In fact, he's invincible in one. He played one of, if not the best TvT we've ever seen so far in Starcraft II, and he still remains over 70% in all match-ups. Also Scarlett top 10!!! First ever foreigner in top 10?? | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17588 Posts
On August 26 2013 16:28 SaltySam wrote: You guys seem to be forgetting that Jaedong and Scarlett only showed great play at the WCS Finals against ONE race. None of the Protoss Jaedong defeated have good records against higher level Zerg. Jaedong should not be in the top 5 just because he did well against only protoss in the WCS finals. Jaedong needs to fight Protoss who have good ZvP before I can rank him highly. Jaedong was ravaged by Bomber in the finals and by Polt in AM Finals. He barely defeated Scarlett who was also barely defeated by Life who was handily beaten by Soulkey. Soulkey still has amazing ZvT and ZvZ. Jaedong has great ZvZ and great PvZ, but he hasn't defeated a great PvZ player yet. + Show Spoiler + Duckdeok has the same issue with only showing good results from PvP. He has yet to prove himself in the other match-ups. Someone who has proven themselves in multiple match-ups against top players should take priority. This is non-biased. Ranking: + Show Spoiler + 1. Bomber 2-4.Taeja/Innovation/Soulkey 5-7. SuperNova/Maru/Rain 8-10. First/Jaedong/Polt Bomber has top 5 TvT and TvP while having great TvZ.. Taeja has top 5 TvT and TvP and good TvZ. Innovation has the best TvZ, top 5 TvT, and good TvP. Soulkey has the best ZvT, maybe best ZvZ and has (moderate-good) ZvP. SuperNova has top 5 TvZ and TvP, and good TvT. Maru has top 5 TvP, top 5 or top 10 TvT (not sure after his loss to aLive), and good TvZ. Rain has top 5 PvT, top 10 PvP or higher, and moderate PvZ. First has top 5 PvT, good PvP, and moderate PvZ. Jaedong has (great-top5) ZvP, (great-top5) ZvZ, and moderate ZvT. Polt has top 5 TvT, good TvP, and good TvZ. Best>>Top 5>>top 10>=great>>good>>moderate Bomber + Show Spoiler + TvT: Beating top tier Terrans consistently. Top 5 TvT. TvP: Beating First who is a Top tier TvP. Lost to Rain in TvP recently. Top 5 TvP. TvZ: Lost to Life and barely defeated Scarlett recently. (Jaedong's ZvT isn't Top Tier so beating him doesn't mean much). Too hard to gauge. Innovation, Supernova, and Soulkey > Bomber = Scarlett Innovation + Show Spoiler + TvT: Lost to Taeja but gave him trouble with mech. Taeja gave Polt+Bomber trouble. His TvT should be lower end of the Top 5. TvZ: Consistently defeats Soulkey who has showcased the best ZvT. Number 1 TvZ. TvP: Lost to Naniwa and Parting. Both of whom haven't played enough TvP so it's hard to gauge their tier. Beat Zest who beat Maru two weeks before he won WCS Korea. Hard to gauge. Taeja + Show Spoiler + TvT: Barely lost to Bomber and Polt. Barely defeated Innovation. Top 5 TvP. TvZ: Last relevant match: Lost one game to Nerchio. Barely defeated HyuN, (8-02) Not enough to gauge. TvP: Defeated Rain who defeated Bomber a few weeks ago. Rain wasn't in top form, but it's still something. Top 5. First + Show Spoiler + PvT: Defeated a Terran who almost beat Rain. Has shown great PvT. Top 5 PvT. PvZ: Lost to Jaedong who defeated every protoss at WCS S2 Finals. Not able to gauge. PvP: Loss to Creator, (7-27). Not enough matches to gauge. Jaedong: + Show Spoiler + ZvP: The Protoss he beat recently haven't shown great PvZ in recent times. Very good PvZ, but need him to play against good PvZ players before I rank him higher. ZvT: Lost to Bomber and Polt lopsidedly. Not Top tier. ZvZ: Barely defeated Scarlett who was barely defeated by Life who was handily defeated by Soulkey. Lost one game to Ret. Not enough relevant ZvZ for the month, but has shown great ZvZ consistency. Soulkey + Show Spoiler + ZvT: Is the only Zerg to put up a fight against Innovation. Number 1 ZvT. Last relevant matches: Losses to Innovation, (8-18, 8-03). Loss to Supernova, (8-06) ZvP: Last relevant matches: Loss to Sora, (8-17). Not enough games to gauge. ZvZ: Last relevant matches: Win vs Coca, (7-28). Win vs Life (7-26). He has only lost two ZvZ games in HOTS. SK handily defeated Life who barely defeated Scarlett who was barely defeated by Jaedong. Not enough relevant ZvZ this month, but has shown great ZvZ consistency. SuperNova + Show Spoiler + TvZ: Beat Soulkey a couple weeks ago. Top 5 TvZ. TvP: Barely lost to First and Rain. Top 5 TvP. Last relevant matches: Barely lost to Rain, (7-25). Barely lost to First, (8-06). Barely lost to Hurricane, (8-11) TvT: SN has won irrelevant TvT matches and lost none in over a month. Unknown. Maru: + Show Spoiler + TvZ: Lost to Scarlett. (Match against Symbol was too long ago and his ZvT wasn't great) Not enough information to gauge. TvT: Defeated Innovation easily 3 weeks ago. Lost to Alive and beat MMA. Alive has never been this good before and MMA's inability to take long series against top tier players makes this hard to gauge. At least top 10. TvP: Defeated Rain. Top 5 TvP. Rain + Show Spoiler + PvT: Defeated Bomber handily and barely defeated SuperNova. Lost horribly to Taeja. Top 5 PvT. PvZ: Last relevant matches: Lost to Jaedong, (8-23). One win and loss against hyvaa, who has a bad record against Protoss. Not enough information to be accurate. Definitely not top tier though. PvP: Has only lost one PvP series in over a month to Parting. Maybe Top 10 PvP. Polt + Show Spoiler + TvT: Barely beating Taeja recently. Top 5 TvT. TvP: Lost to First twice. Polt played well, but First was a level above him. Not Top Tier TvP. TvZ: Last relevant matches: Easily defeated Jaedong, (8-11). Barely lost to Revival who has only played one TvZ in almost two months, (07-27). No way to gauge. It's really hard to gauge everyone's tier placement. There aren't enough samples. Many top players don't have many recent games or they haven't fought Top Tier players in certain match-ups. Close, but no cigar: Alive has never played at this level before. So we can't compare the Alive at WCS AM to the one at the S2 Finals. We should wait to see his consistency. Scarlett clearly has high level ZvT, but we don't know how it matches up against other top terrans. Also, many zergs haven't been in the higher levels of the WCS so it's hard to gauge all the other zerg's proficiency in any matchup. Scarlett hasn't shown high level ZvP. Beating MacSed doesn't mean high level ZvP. Scarlett almost beat Jaedong, so great ZvZ. Naniwa hasn't fought any proven Top Tier TvP players so we don't know how high his PvT ranks. He beat Duckdeok, but lost two times before that. Naniwa beat Innovation and MMA, but we don't know how high their PvT ranks. Naniwa's PvZ isn't Top Tier. Revival hasn't beaten a top player in a month. So it's hard to gauge him. He has a good record though. Honorable Mentions: Parting won KR WCG, but I can't gauge how his PvT matches up to the top 10 terrans. Also, he hasn't shown good ZvP in a long time. Sora has been on fire lately, but I haven't seen enough matches from him yet. Duckdeok won WCS EU, but hasn't shown great PvT or PvZ. Hyun lost to San who lost to Targa. So, bad ZvP. Good ZvT. Great ZvZ. Not good enough for top 10 though. I'll edit this once the KR premier league happens. Can you tell me what protosses do have really good PvZ then? | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Scarlett is #11 as far as I'm concerned. Just barely not enough to place her over Polt, First, Soulkey, Maru, Rain, or even PartinG. | ||
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LittleRedBoy
United States229 Posts
On September 01 2013 12:28 Pandain wrote: Innovation is still #1 player in the world, there's a reason why anyone beating him still remains an upset. Only way in which he's failing is strategy, his mechanics are still the best. Being weak to cheese doesn't make him #2 to Soulkey, Jaedong, or Rain. Jaedong has consistantly struggled with TvZ while Innovation is strong in all match-ups. In fact, he's invincible in one. He played one of, if not the best TvT we've ever seen so far in Starcraft II, and he still remains over 70% in all match-ups. Also Scarlett top 10!!! First ever foreigner in top 10?? I would not put Innovation at #1 and I would not put Scarlett at #10. The only two zergs who I would put in the top 10 are Jaedong and Soulkey. Innovation has not played well in August and Scarlett has largely been playing ZvT. Ranking Scarlett in the top 10 is an insult to all the great players in WCS Korea Code S and Code A who don't get the recognition they deserve because they are playing in such a difficult region. I mean just look at all the names in Code S and Code A who won't make the top 10. There are players like Symbol, Parting, Flash, Super, Dongraegu, Losira, Byun, Life, Leenock, etc. All of these players would easily be some of the favorites to win either WCS America or Europe. | ||
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Pandain
United States12985 Posts
On September 01 2013 12:57 LittleRedBoy wrote: I would not put Innovation at #1 and I would not put Scarlett at #10. The only two zergs who I would put in the top 10 are Jaedong and Soulkey. Innovation has not played well in August and Scarlett has largely been playing ZvT. Ranking Scarlett in the top 10 is an insult to all the great players in WCS Korea Code S and Code A who don't get the recognition they deserve because they are playing in such a difficult region. I mean just look at all the names in Code S and Code A who won't make the top 10. There are players like Symbol, Parting, Flash, Super, Dongraegu, Losira, Byun, Life, Leenock, etc. All of these players would easily be some of the favorites to win either WCS America or Europe. Scarlett barely lost 2-3 to the best ZvZ in the world, second best TvZ behind Soulkey(I mean really, she crushed Maru and played absolutely fantastic vs Bomber who 4-0'd Jaedong), and we don't have any ZvP to really judge. However she's consistantly too 16 in KR gm. I actually think she's better than all the players you just mentioned except maybe Super. | ||
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SaltySam
65 Posts
On September 01 2013 12:53 Die4Ever wrote: None that I can find. I searched through the match history of all the top protoss.Can you tell me what protosses do have really good PvZ then? 1. Some protoss haven't fought a zerg in over a month. 2. Some Protoss have only beaten lower level zergs. 3. Sora has to prove his consistency first. 4. Other protoss have lost to lower level zerg. 5. Some protoss have only had one or two ZvPs in about a month. Etc.  On September 01 2013 13:13 Pandain wrote: You can't put Scarlett's ZvT that high. Maru hasn't shown great TvZ. The only relevant player he has beaten recently in TvZ is Symbol (who isn't known for great TvZ). Also, he lost to Kangho a few days before that. Both of those TvZs were a month before his fight against Scarlett. Also, Bomber had only fought Scarlett(W), Life (L), Mekia (W), and Jaedong (W) in a month. Bomber would have to fight Soulkey so we can gauge his TvZ. For all we know Soulkey is so far above all other zergs in ZvT that calling someone second doesn't even mean anything. This past month many players haven't played many games so it's hard to judge. You are inflating Scarlett's ZvT level without enough data. Life would be ranked over Scarlett based on current data. Scarlett barely lost 2-3 to the best ZvZ in the world, second best TvZ behind Soulkey(I mean really, she crushed Maru and played absolutely fantastic vs Bomber who 4-0'd Jaedong), and we don't have any ZvP to really judge. However she's consistantly too 16 in KR gm. I actually think she's better than all the players you just mentioned except maybe Super. Also, there is no current data that suggests Scarlett or Jaedong are among the best ZvZs. We will have a lot more data now that S3 is starting. So we shall see. | ||
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LittleRedBoy
United States229 Posts
On September 01 2013 13:13 Pandain wrote: Scarlett barely lost 2-3 to the best ZvZ in the world, second best TvZ behind Soulkey(I mean really, she crushed Maru and played absolutely fantastic vs Bomber who 4-0'd Jaedong), and we don't have any ZvP to really judge. However she's consistantly too 16 in KR gm. I actually think she's better than all the players you just mentioned except maybe Super. Maru is not known for his TvZ and neither is Bomber. In fact, TvZ is Bomber's worst match up while it is Scarlett's best. Secondly, being ranked top 16 on KR GM is nice but it doesn't mean a whole lot. CoCa, who had taken a 6+ month hiatus from SC2 last year was able to reach rank 1 on KR GM again after only being back for a few months in HotS. Byul, who is largely under the radar has been rank 1 recently. Nobody here would consider putting him in a top 10 power rank. Finally, I'm not sure how you can say that Scarlett is better than the players I just listed. Symbol has consistently made it to the round of 8 in the past few Code S seasons, Parting won the WCG Korean qualifier, and both Dongraegu and Life have beaten Scarlett in the past month, with Dongraegu making it into Code S. | ||
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Aserrin
Uruguay231 Posts
Also you made me check if she actually did lose 2-3 to Soulkey or something... Jaedong doesn't have nowhere near the best ZvZ in the world. Get real. | ||
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