EPTTaeja's getting back in good form and actually WON something, yes. But First has looked far more impressive and against better opponents.
5th place in OSL with the opponents he's had to go through is still a comparable achievement.
SC2 Power Rank - August 2013 - Page 7
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Taeja's getting back in good form and actually WON something, yes. But First has looked far more impressive and against better opponents. 5th place in OSL with the opponents he's had to go through is still a comparable achievement. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:17 BronzeKnee wrote: Again, you're breaking one of the Power Rank rules that the writers seem to occasionally follow. This is based on results, not prediction. It doesn't matter if Maru could or couldn't repeat the feat, or that it was within "variance." He did it, it is done and it is the results. Again, it's not prediction. It's statistics. Even if you disclude the odds that were and still are against Maru, Innovation's match-ups are STILL much stronger than Maru's right now. | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
Maru was 0-2'd by Zest and Losira.... guess that makes them better? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:23 rd wrote: Again, it's not prediction. It's statistics. Even if you disclude the odds that were and still are against Maru, Innovation's match-ups are STILL much stronger than Maru's right now. 11-5 to 7-6, in the finals versus eliminated after being swept, but you're right Innovation individually is still stronger based on WCG and a team league. | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:17 BronzeKnee wrote: Again, you're breaking one of the Power Rank rules that the writers seem to occasionally follow. This is based on results, not prediction. It doesn't matter if Maru could or couldn't repeat the feat, or that it was within "variance." He did it, it is done and it is the results. These are individual rankings. There is an individual league where the best players play, WCS KR. These are the statistics from this month. Maru: 11-5 Innovation: 7-6 This was the winner when they went head to head : Maru 4-0 - Advances to the Final. Innovation 0-4 - Eliminated. We play the game to find out who is better right? So who was better. Are you a little bit slower in the head? I mean really... it's plain simple: The power rank is a ranking of all the players that play SC2 HotS. It includes ALL their achievements throughout the history of the game (HotS is a game. WoL and BW are a different game. WoL and BW aren't included.) with an EMPHASIS on this months performance. Yes, in one single match, Maru outperformed Innovation. Innovation has much better results than Maru overall, not only this month (see 17-4 vs 11-5) but also throughout HotS. It is really not THAT hard to understand. Actually, I think the writers have too much of an emphasis on this months results as opposed to overall performance, but it will get better as the game gets older. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:24 Rhaegal wrote: Do the people arguing for Maru actually believe he is better than Innovation, or are they just arguing for the sake of it? Maru was 0-2'd by Zest and Losira.... guess that makes them better? And Bomber beat Innovation... the point is, if these rankings don't predict, and they are based on the results from this month, and they are individual and not team rankings, that putting Innovation first is insane. He lost, badly. Maru should be first, he just beat the #1 individually ranked player! And he has the recent results to back it up. I suppose much of this comes down to how far off they weight the rankings from previous months. But to do that, and not predict is foolish, because with a ranking system like this you look in the past to predict the future. Either make the results based on the performance of the month, or go back further and do some predicting. There is a reason the vast majority of rankings, in any sport do the former. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:26 BronzeKnee wrote: And Bomber beat Innovation... the point is, if these rankings don't predict, and they are based on the results from this month, and they are individual and not team rankings, that putting Innovation first is insane. He lost, badly. Maru should be first, he just beat the #1 individually ranked player! And he has the recent results to back it up. I suppose much of this comes down to how far off they weight the rankings from previous months. Innovation performed much better in July than Maru though... | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:26 BronzeKnee wrote: And Bomber beat Innovation... the point is, if these rankings don't predict, and they are based on the results from this month, and they are individual and not team rankings, that putting Innovation first is insane. Maru should be first, he just beat the #1 individually ranked player! Well before we continue, I'm just gonna stop citing 17-4 because I can't confirm that at all, and unless TLPD is wrong or not completely updated, Innovation is 14-8. And continuing, that is still a stronger number than Maru's only credibility for being in power rank which was a questionable, statistically unlikely sweep of the #1 player, and defeating symbol. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:33 Rhaegal wrote: Innovation performed much better in July than Maru though... Which is why Maru is in the finals of the best individual league, and Innovation has been eliminated. Remember, Maru just beat, no smashed, the consensus #1. | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:34 rd wrote: Well before we continue, I'm just gonna stop citing 17-4 because I can't confirm that at all, and unless TLPD is wrong or not completely updated, Innovation is 14-8. And continuing, that is still a stronger number than Maru's only credibility for being in power rank which was a questionable, statistically unlikely sweep of the #1 player, and defeating symbol. http://www.aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2013-07-01&before=2013-07-31&race=ptzr&nats=all&bo=all&offline=both&game=all | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:36 Rhaegal wrote: http://www.aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2013-07-01&before=2013-07-31&race=ptzr&nats=all&bo=all&offline=both&game=all Thanks, gonna fix my post cause now Maru's stats are wrong, too. 29-12 vs 15-8, and 6-2 vs 17-4 in matches. There is no way you can put Maru over Innovation. Innovation has just won way more this month. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
And again: There is an individual league where the best players play, WCS KR. These are the statistics (of games won/lost, not matches won lost) from this month of that league: Maru: 11-5 Innovation: 7-6 When I used to drag race my car (at the track), there was an old saying, "We don't race dyno sheets, we race cars." You might think the 900 HP Supra is going to beat the 700 HP Viper, but we actually race the cars to figure out who wins. Now we play the game to find out who is better right, we don't just look at statistics, right? This was the winner when they went head to head : Maru 4-0 - Advances to the Final. Innovation 0-4 - Eliminated. So who was better? | ||
Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
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c0ldfusion
United States8293 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:35 BronzeKnee wrote: Which is why Maru is in the finals of the best individual league, and Innovation has been eliminated. Remember, Maru just beat, no smashed, the consensus #1. all this arguing is pointless, Maru is about to get his ass handed to him by Rain anyway. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
For overall games played including those outside the OSL, it is 11-5 (69%) Maru to 29-12 (71%) Innovation. For overall matches, it is 17-4 (81%) Innovation to 4-1 (80%) Maru. The fact is, we don't see much of Maru. But that doesn't mean he isn't better. I'd argue too that Maru faced overall tougher matches when you look at his opponents too. But he just swept Innovation, so we know who was better anyway. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:39 Rhaegal wrote: You can't have it both ways. By your logic Zest and Losira are both better than Maru because they beat him. It isn't like that at all. Maru lost some games to Losira, just like Innovation lost to Bomber, but they both still advanced. That is the key, they were good enough to advance, nothing else matters at that point. Then they both won their Ro8 matches. Then Maru smashed Innovation. That is why he is better. And so Maru is 11-5 in games, 4-1 in matches and Innovation is 7-6 in games, and 3-2 in matches. | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:43 BronzeKnee wrote: Actually, it is 11-5 Maru to 7-6 Innovation in the OSL for games played. For matches, it is 4-1 Maru to 3-2 Innovation. For overall games played including those outside the OSL, it is 11-5 (69%) Maru to 29-12 (71%) Innovation. For overall matches, it is 17-4 (81%) Innovation to 4-1 (80%) Maru. The fact is, we don't see much of Maru. But that doesn't mean he isn't better. And he just swept Innovation. You can take my word. He is not better. Is that enough or you will keep on posting BS? And again, Losira beat Maru. Is he better then Maru? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 09 2013 06:44 Ammanas wrote: You can take my word. He is not better. Is that enough or you will keep on posting BS? And again, Losira beat Maru. Is he better then Maru? You're mistaking a loss in the Ro4 to a loss in group play. My logic isn't inconsistent. Maru advanced, that is what matters, not that he lost an individual game or match here or there. | ||
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