• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:10
CEST 15:10
KST 22:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments2[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon10[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes173BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
Why Storm Should NOT Be Nerfed – A Core Part of Pr StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time SC4ALL: A North American StarCraft LAN Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Stellar Fest KSL Week 80 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL ro8 Upper Bracket HYPE VIDEO BW General Discussion StarCraft Stellar Forces had bad maps Starcraft: Destruction expansion pack?
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1792 users

WCS Season 2 Regional League Finals Dates - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
807 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 41 Next All
Fullback
Profile Joined January 2012
Argentina170 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-23 14:55:57
July 23 2013 14:55 GMT
#601
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


Kim Pham? is that you?
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 23 2013 14:56 GMT
#602
On July 23 2013 23:55 Fullback wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


Kim Pham? is that you?


He certainly is a phan.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 23 2013 14:57 GMT
#603
On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:
Its annoying, but no more annoying that two great football games playing at the same time.


What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals?

I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying".

Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
kaztah
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway1221 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-23 15:00:11
July 23 2013 14:59 GMT
#604
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.

Lot of Dota viewers used to be sc2 viewers aswell. Everyone I know that played master league ~ level when sc2 came out is playing dota 2 now, and some still watches sc2.
Hell even this website took that direction, because even if you say it's a starcraft website, teamliquid is just as much a dota 2 website, and even has their own sponsored team attending TI.

The problem is that absolutely zero of them will sacrifice TI to watch wcs finals, even if there's supposely the best players and best games. They might have done it any other day/week/weekend, but anyone that watched TI2 last year knows how fucking good that event was, and this year will only get better when the community alone gave another 4 million dollars to valve.

Dota2 has a pretty huge viewersbase, and you're losing out on all of them if you schedule it again TI.
I speak fluent sarcasm.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
July 23 2013 14:59 GMT
#605
On July 23 2013 22:43 ratbert wrote:
so in fact you guys are worried that the numbers are going to be low? what difference does it make to you if theres 50k watching or 10k ? the games are not going to be of less quality because there's less people watching. i guess it's the "the sky is falling"-mentality all over again.

the only concern i understand is from people who would love to watch both events. but the sky wont fall and blizzard didn't kill sc2 because the sc2 stream is missing 50% of it's viewers because there's TI3 on


A lot of the perceived quality of matches is about the hype around them. This is especially true for SC2.
Turbulencedota
Profile Joined October 2012
Romania29 Posts
July 23 2013 15:00 GMT
#606
On July 23 2013 23:56 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:55 Fullback wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


Kim Pham? is that you?


He certainly is a phan.


No phan intended
The counter to bad manner is excessive good manner. "Grubby"
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-23 15:04:46
July 23 2013 15:02 GMT
#607
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


Erm... The Internationals is pretty big and unique, with one occurence a year, while the WCS happen multiple time in the year, is split in multiple regions with different level of hype ( with KR > EU >>>> AM it seems).

So I wouldn't be so worried about TI3... I do think it will be a bit more successful than WCS...

On July 24 2013 00:00 Turbulencedota wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:56 Talin wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:55 Fullback wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


Kim Pham? is that you?


He certainly is a phan.


No phan intended


Though from his post and onward, shit hit the phan.
LiquipediaWanderer
Killmouse
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria5700 Posts
July 23 2013 15:04 GMT
#608
On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:
Its annoying, but no more annoying that two great football games playing at the same time.


What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals?

I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying".

Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf.

y i agree, i dont care how big the prizepool of dota2 is, if i dont enjoy watching D2, i cant watch it, ppl should just watch the game they enjoy viewing, prizepool shouldnt matter
yo
Phyxx
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark681 Posts
July 23 2013 15:05 GMT
#609
So retarded... Oh well, I guess I am going to miss WCS then.
Noro
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada991 Posts
July 23 2013 15:06 GMT
#610
SC2 viewer numbers are already becomming pretty laughable next to those of Dota2 and League of Legends... I think this is a big mistake by Blizz. I'm not even a Dota2 fan/player but I still wanted to watch TI. Honestly, I think I'll still pick that over WCS o.o pretty sure lots of people will.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
July 23 2013 15:06 GMT
#611
On July 24 2013 00:05 Phyxx wrote:
So retarded... Oh well, I guess I am going to miss WCS then.


Invest in extra monitors + a good internet connection : maximum esports awesomeness

(Though a second brain and another pair of eyes could be of use to follow everything ^_^)
LiquipediaWanderer
Turbulencedota
Profile Joined October 2012
Romania29 Posts
July 23 2013 15:07 GMT
#612
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


You, sir are living under a starcraft rock. WCS/Starcraft will suffer from this incident, not Valve/Dota2
The counter to bad manner is excessive good manner. "Grubby"
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 23 2013 15:09 GMT
#613
On July 24 2013 00:07 Turbulencedota wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


You, sir are living under a starcraft rock.


There's so many rocks in SC2, no wonder people started living under them.
Noro
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada991 Posts
July 23 2013 15:12 GMT
#614
On July 24 2013 00:09 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 00:07 Turbulencedota wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


You, sir are living under a starcraft rock.


There's so many rocks in SC2, no wonder people started living under them.


Don't worry, they're all destructable. They'll find their way out eventually.
Talk not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me.
AgentW
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States7725 Posts
July 23 2013 15:12 GMT
#615
On July 24 2013 00:09 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 24 2013 00:07 Turbulencedota wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.


You, sir are living under a starcraft rock.


There's so many rocks in SC2, no wonder people started living under them.

Until they collapse on you.

To me, this issue's pretty cut and dry. Blizzard screwed up, didn't plan ahead, and has to contest with other SC2 tournaments, so they were forced to rush everything and take the only available weekend (which no other tournament, regardless of eSport, was crazy enough to take). Blizzard messed up, we'll see the repercussions of it in a few weeks. No point in bellyaching now, it's not going to change anything. Could you see OGN switching the date? That's laughable.
Who's the bigger scrub, the scrub, or the scrub who loses to him?
theking1
Profile Joined June 2013
Romania658 Posts
July 23 2013 15:13 GMT
#616
dota2 and sc2 and lol were at the same time at dreamhack stockholm.What happened?Record number of stream viewers and a packed house for all 3 games.League of legends and sc2 and cod at the same time at the last mlg.What happened?Record number of viewers and packed house for all 3 games.Countless dota2 tournies running along side sc2 tournies and lol tournies.What happens?Growing number of viewers for all games.Overlapping does not necesasary mean less viewers.Other factors such as entertainment value come into play.I would not be surprised if this years wcs regional finals get more viewers than last years regional wcs finals.Of course people will come and say sc2 is dead since it did not beat the international number of viewers but sponsors and people involved will notice the actual increase in viewership.
snarl
Profile Joined July 2004
Canada812 Posts
July 23 2013 15:14 GMT
#617
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.

TL hasn't been a SC exclusive site for nearly a year now. And last years International blew anything SC ever had away in terms of viewers, so you're being very, very optimistic.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
July 23 2013 15:17 GMT
#618
On July 23 2013 23:57 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:52 Talin wrote:
On July 23 2013 23:41 Plansix wrote:
Its annoying, but no more annoying that two great football games playing at the same time.


What if the two great football games being played at the same time were the Champions League and World Cup finals?

I imagine it would be a little bit more than "annoying".

Well more like the division finals for America football being on at the same time as the Masters for Golf.

Not at all. I'm pretty sure the demographic for the fucking International has a significant number of Sc2 players in it. I'm pretty sure the people who are golf fans aren't going to regret missing a division finals in American football, and vice versa, because there's not a whole lot of overlap (since golf & football are radically different sports). Sc2 and DotA have a huge crossover in terms of fanbase, not least because TL covers DotA. There is absolutely no excuse to run an important series of regional finals on the same day as the Superbowl of the eSports scene. It's just catastrophically stupid on so many levels.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 23 2013 15:19 GMT
#619
On July 24 2013 00:14 snarl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2013 23:51 opisska wrote:
I just randomly scanned the thread, but it seems to be 30 pages of "WCS is screwed, they should not go against TI3". Why is everyone here suddenly so full of DOTA? Is it because it is newer and shinier? And why are there so many people so crazy about not missing some DOTA tourney on a starcraft website? I sure as hell won't miss WCS finals for some other game! (I might, honestly, miss it for birdwatching or going to the mountains, though.)

I say, TI3 is screwed, now it has to compete for viewers with THREE FUCKING WCS FINALS. I woudln't really want to be the organizer ot TI3 after this announcement.

TL hasn't been a SC exclusive site for nearly a year now. And last years International blew anything SC ever had away in terms of viewers, so you're being very, very optimistic.

It is the super bowl of Dota and they do love to make people wait for it. Its also once a year, unlike SC2, which is all year round.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
July 23 2013 15:20 GMT
#620
well, its pretty stupid to have to big finals (the dota thing is a finals yes?) at the same time but anyhow, i probably wont watch either, dota is boring anad sc2 meta game makes for a lot of shitty games for me
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 41 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
2v2 #2
WardiTV771
IndyStarCraft 332
Liquipedia
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
08:00
Day 2 - Play Off & Finals Stage
ZZZero.O150
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 332
ProTech92
Rex 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43562
Rain 10893
Hyuk 3727
BeSt 2306
Sea 1888
Horang2 1485
PianO 1407
Flash 1101
Bisu 749
Shuttle 456
[ Show more ]
Larva 455
Leta 301
Last 241
Mong 213
ggaemo 211
Soma 181
ZZZero.O 150
Hyun 133
Soulkey 121
Rush 76
ToSsGirL 66
sorry 52
Movie 51
Backho 46
Sea.KH 39
JYJ38
yabsab 35
Sexy 29
Free 25
scan(afreeca) 22
Aegong 17
Yoon 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
IntoTheRainbow 13
Hm[arnc] 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4085
qojqva2732
Dendi1243
XcaliburYe689
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss230
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor274
Other Games
gofns10911
tarik_tv6204
singsing2689
B2W.Neo1545
DeMusliM473
Pyrionflax340
Hui .183
NeuroSwarm68
Mew2King57
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 25
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 5771
Other Games
• WagamamaTV197
• Shiphtur25
Upcoming Events
Online Event
2h 50m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 50m
Barracks vs Mini
Wardi Open
21h 50m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
LiuLi Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Clem vs Reynor
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-18
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.