Prime was my prediction to disband from the start of the year. Though now it feels a bit odd since they just moved into a new team house and picked up a few new players iirc.
It'd be sad if they go. I was never the biggest Prime fan, but they're one of the oldest eSF teams. :/
Maybe it'll be NSH instead.
edit: oh yeah! I forgot about STX. Kind of just instantly blocked Kespa out of my mind since they have so much bank, then I remembered the rumors :x.
LG-IMBogus (yes he comes to his sense and changes his name back!)
I doubt, it´s NSH. NSH haven´t had a win in GSL for about one year now and now finally Jjakji is back in the safe zone of Code A. Seems like a bad timing to disband. I´d guess STX.
Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
My thoughts exactly. no not really.. Well thought out response from you though.
If it is STX, then's it's really unfortunate timing for the players, I mean Jin Air already picked up T8, so the STX players might be the new T8 for awhile.
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
He is too good for NSH. What has NSH showed in the GSL other than jjakji? I mean Madbull getting to the finals for code a qualifiers recently but that is it. Jjakji has all the skill and potential, just not the right pieces to get back to where he was November of 2011. He really is too good for NSH.
It won't be Kespa team imo. 3rd party journalist like Judah would not get to information like that before Kespa announces it. My bet would be NSH or Prime..
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
If it is STX then Prime/NSH could be in a lot more trouble. If STX did disband and two new Kespa teams joined (like what was rumored in the lol pro league post) then the GSTL could struggle to field enough teams for GOM to do another GSTL and then what do those teams have apart from 1-2 players in WCS and qualifiers every 3 months.
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
It is weird they haven't picked up a lol team if they are still ok with all the other Kespa teams now having them tho.
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team arena challenge when they made the finals vs Prime
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
The STX soul team is a championship winning team and I would doubt that korean airline would sponsor team 8 instead of STX soul if Kespa was upfront about it.
On July 12 2013 21:56 xluik wrote: The STX soul team is a championship winning team and I would doubt that korean airline would sponsor team 8 instead of STX soul if Kespa was upfront about it.
On July 12 2013 21:56 xluik wrote: The STX soul team is a championship winning team and I would doubt that korean airline would sponsor team 8 instead of STX soul if Kespa was upfront about it.
That's an interesting point,.... maybe it wasn't a certainty until after negotiations for T8?
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
Thanks for the feedback, I did not mean to bash him, it was a honest question. And you guys are probably right. It is a bit strange to me noone els picked him up then? If he is such a talent, why wouldnty IM, EG etc pick him up? He might be too good for NSHS, but is he good enough for any other pro team atm?
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
Thanks for the feedback, I did not mean to bash him, it was a honest question. And you guys are probably right. It is a bit strange to me noone els picked him up then? If he is such a talent, why wouldnty IM, EG etc pick him up? He might be too good for NSHS, but is he good enough for any other pro team atm?
I think so. Jjakji isn't a top-tier Terran atm but he strikes me as a player with a lot of potential. I also forgot he qualified for MLG around the release of HotS beating DRG 3-2 and 3-0'ing MKP at the event. Being a gsl champ has got to buy you something at the very least.
I mean, Seed is even more irrelevant than Jjakji lately and he got sold to FXO.
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
Thanks for the feedback, I did not mean to bash him, it was a honest question. And you guys are probably right. It is a bit strange to me noone els picked him up then? If he is such a talent, why wouldnty IM, EG etc pick him up? He might be too good for NSHS, but is he good enough for any other pro team atm?
I think he stays because he is loyal to the team which helped him win a GSL, I'm sure those teams would go after him if NSH disbanded. Hopefully if that happens he ends up on IM
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
Narrowly losing to Nestea in the quarterfinal of a foreign tournament is hardly a claim to fame.
On July 12 2013 21:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: yeah really. Jjakji is too good for NSH
What has Jjakji showed in the last 18(?) months after he's GSL title? Its a honest question, I dont follow everything. Im just surprised someone think he' too good for NSHS.
The fact that he's a gsl champion in comparison to what his teammates ever accomplished alone, leads me to believe he's too good for NSH.
He did manage to stay in code S for two seasons after his win, won a stacked online tournament to qualify for IPL4, and has almost always carried NSH in GSTL in WoL and HotS.
It might not sound like much, but then you look at Madbull, Freaky, Tassadar, Sculp, Seal etc. Next to nothing ever....
He also carried the fuck out of his team in IPL team league when they made the finals vs Prime
oh and he made ro8 for Iron Squid narrowly losing 2-3 to Nestea
Narrowly losing to Nestea in the quarterfinal of a foreign tournament is hardly a claim to fame.
It is in comparison to his teammates, which was my point...
I am reposting the research I did on STX's situation. I haven't read about the issue again since my initial research, so some things may have changed since then. I am sure most people don't actually know about how STX are doing, financially, so this should be a good read for those curious.
On June 30 2013 01:07 lichter wrote: Okay so I decided to do a little reading.
STX Pan Ocean is in deep shit. Stocks of both STX Group and STX Pan Ocean have been tanking since 2009. "STX Pan Ocean plunged to 2,565 won Tuesday from 10,900 won Dec. 15, 2008, and STX Offshore & Shipbuilding also 067250.SE +1.53% nosedived to 2,595 won from 14,500 won during the same period." That's a few years ago but the company hasn't really recovered since. Just last week, "STX Pan Ocean tumbled 14.9 percent before share trading was suspended," while "STX Corp dropped 14.8 percent and STX Engine slid 13.8 percent." Ouch.
"STX Pan Ocean, which became one of STX Group's most profitable units after emerging from receivership in 2002, swung to a net loss of 91 billion won in 2009. Its loss deepened to 467 billion won last year." I cannot find what percentage of STX Group's income comes from STX Pan Ocean, but most articles state that "90% of the group's sales come from [shipping and shipbuilding industries]." Their official website does not provide much financial information aside from graphs from the period of 2008-2010. Not a lot of info, but based on their graphs 1.) They are still profitable with a net income of 30.5billion Won in 2010 after a disastrous 2009 when they suffered losses of 171.8billion Won; 2.) Debt equity ratio continues to rise; 3.) Cash flow has been very bad, with 2010 reporting a -69.7billion, with most of that cash coming from "financing activities", and the biggest losses coming from their disastrous investments.
However, all is not lost.
"STX Group, with more than 10 trillion won, or $9 billion, in total debt, has sold 1.13 trillion won in assets as part of a 2.5 trillion won asset sale plan announced in May of last year." So they've been trying to repay their debts but so far it hasn't worked out smoothly as "STX Group had put up for sale its almost 36% interest in STX Pan Ocean, but no buyers came forward." Fortunately, "Creditors of ailing STX Offshore & Shipbuilding on Friday injected an additional 250 billion won (US$216 million) in liquidity into the shipbuilder in a bid to tide it over during its cash crunch, officials said." So even though STX Pan Ocean are in deep shit, it looks like its creditors are going to try everything they can in order to keep STX afloat. It looks like the government also has a stake in this as many companies, banks and institutions have investments or connections to STX Group. So yes, STX are in some trouble, but it looks a lot of people are trying to find a way to help them. However, Korea Development Bank, the second largest shareholder of Pan Ocean, decided not to buy out STX Group's shares, so it does look like everyone is skeptical about Pan Ocean's profitability (but STX Group as a whole are doing alright, note).
According to what I've read, " STX Group had a combined 2.86 trillion won in corporate debt to be paid out by 2015, according to NICE Investors Service, a local credit appraiser. Out of such debt, the group has 580 billion won in debt that is due this year." This is what is the most worrying as their most recent financial information states they only have a net income of about 30billion Won. I'm uncertain if the debt payments due this year stated above already includes interest payments or only the principal to be paid. Another problem is that "since the credit crisis, orders to build new ships have plunged. Contracts for new vessels halved to $84.7 billion last year, compared with $174.7 billion in 2008." Either way, if STX can find a way to refinance that debt and have a more frugal investment plan (apparently Kang wants to BUY ALL THE COMPANIES) they should come out of this okay. They also need to either sell of Pan Ocean or find a way to make it profitable (the main problems being: overcapacity of ships means less order for ship, less shipping due to financial downturn means less ships needed). They are still a profitable company that is important for the Korean economy, so I think they will find a way.
I could probably read more but I hate reading about business at home.
SUMMARY: 1. STX Pan Ocean and STX Group are in lots of debt, and STX Pan Ocean is doing terribly as a business 2. STX Pan Ocean and STX Group stocks are tanking 3. STX has been trying to sell of assets as well as a controlling amount of shares in some of its less profitable subsidiaries 4. STX Group, as a whole, is still a very important and profitable company 5. STX Group cannot pay off their debts with their cash flow, but if they can refinance that debt and get rid of Pan Ocean's perennial losses, maybe they can stay afloat. 6. I think STX Group will be ok, but the Pan Ocean business will likely go kaput.
I don't think that it'd be STX I mean sure the company can cut them loose but still Kespa probably would hold them together and create a new Team8 now that there is Green Wings or what. So I wouldn't bet on STX still if it's them only a few players will wander to other teams and the team remains the same only under a different name and slightly worse conditions.
On July 12 2013 22:08 DJHelium wrote: Didn't jjakji say that NSH disbanding was very unlikely in some interview? He reacted almost like it would be shocking.
How is MVP doing sponsorwise?
yeah theres also chance that MVP.sc2 might disband and their LoL division might get picked up by one of these chaebols. The former squad isnt doing too hot from what I gather (also doesnt GSTL finish next weekend?)
On July 12 2013 22:08 DJHelium wrote: Didn't jjakji say that NSH disbanding was very unlikely in some interview? He reacted almost like it would be shocking.
How is MVP doing sponsorwise?
Didn't DRG cancel his DH participation because MVP didn't want to pay to send him overseas? :x
On July 12 2013 22:08 DJHelium wrote: Didn't jjakji say that NSH disbanding was very unlikely in some interview? He reacted almost like it would be shocking.
How is MVP doing sponsorwise?
Didn't DRG cancel his DH participation because MVP didn't want to pay to send him overseas? :x
Kinda fair tho, DRG hasnt showen anything last 6 months to be sent on a expensive trip to Sweden?
I've been expecting NSH to disband for awhile, but they have managed to keep going this long so it wouldn't surprise me if they did continue to stay together. I don't like to see any team disband, so this will be disappointing no matter who the team is.
On July 12 2013 22:08 DJHelium wrote: Didn't jjakji say that NSH disbanding was very unlikely in some interview? He reacted almost like it would be shocking.
How is MVP doing sponsorwise?
yeah theres also chance that MVP.sc2 might disband and their LoL division might get picked up by one of these chaebols. The former squad isnt doing too hot from what I gather (also doesnt GSTL finish next weekend?)
gstl finals are in 8 days, proleague finals are on august 3rd with his comment of "in my opinion, next weekend between the end of the month" it makes me think it's more likely stx just due to the timing
I doubt MVP is doing great financially, but to outright disband when your doing great in GSTL and still having good representation in WCS seems odd to me. It's not totally out of the realm of possibility though, I guess.
I mean the same could be said of STX, who is doing even better.
On July 12 2013 22:24 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I doubt MVP is doing great financially, but to outright disband when your doing great in GSTL and still having good representation in WCS seems odd to me. It's not totally out of the realm of possibility though, I guess.
I mean the same could be said of STX, who is doing even better.
MVP is also doing really well in League of Legends, I think even winning the recent Champions League.
On July 12 2013 22:24 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: I doubt MVP is doing great financially, but to outright disband when your doing great in GSTL and still having good representation in WCS seems odd to me. It's not totally out of the realm of possibility though, I guess.
I mean the same could be said of STX, who is doing even better.
Aren't their LoL teams really good?
I think the reason why NSH hasn't disbanded yet is because they are connected to a University/School/College or something of the sort.
I highly doubt its Prime, since they just moved to a new team house.
Perhaps two teams are merging or something of the sort?
Seems highly doubtful that it would be Prime or NSH... Prime has taken in new members and NSH was never in it for the results anyway. If there have been rumors about STX, I guess they are the likely candidates.
On July 12 2013 22:41 Tosster wrote: Chances: NSH>Prime>MVP. End of story, why would STX disband, i don't understand why people vote this.
Because the main sponsor, the STX company is rumored to be filing for bankruptcy....... Stocks prices are being oversold..which means they are having financial problems.
The more I think about it, the more I feel it's either MVP or NSH.
-As far as Prime is concerned, they just recently moved into new house etc, I don't think they are going out just yet.
-For STX, I don't think it's that easy for them to just disband. First of all, STX is under contract with Kespa to keep running the team until certain date, which I don't think will end until SPL is done (it may though). And even if STX would not resign teh contract (may happen, although I doubt it, as lichter said - in situation like that, public perception is very important and getting rid of their SC2 team would not make too much sense), I doubt they would immediately disband - more likely they would just start searching for a new sponsor and operate normally under Kespa guidance (just like T8 till now). Also, STX Soul coaches are working with two of the new OGN LoL Champions Summer teams, indicating they are interested and will probably be picking up LoL squad(s).
-Now for NSH. We all know they are able to survive everything, including nuclear holocaust, but maybe even their survival skills are not enough now. Nobody would be actually surprised, I don't think.
-And now MVP. They are not sponsored by any huge brand, basically (Hot6 doesn't count, since they only supply them with stuff, not money). They have two great LoL teams and very good SC2 team. Now, there are potentionally 3 Kespa teams looking for LoL squads (Woongjin, Khan, STX). I think it would make the most sense, that MVP.LoL squads would become Woongjin or Khan LoL squads and SC2 division to just disband and let the other teams (foreign/kespa) to take the players.
So yeah, I think MVP may be the one disbanding, it makes a lot of sense imo..
On July 12 2013 22:41 Tosster wrote: Chances: NSH>Prime>MVP. End of story, why would STX disband, i don't understand why people vote this.
Because the main sponsor, the STX company is rumored to be filing for bankruptcy....... Stocks prices are being oversold..which means they are having financial problems.
Yes, they are 9 billion USD in debt. But they are also worth more then 23 billion USD. Believe me, the money they pay to the team are nothing at all for them... You may be right, but it wouldn't make sense for them to disband (the public perception more important, then the change they are paying the team).
On July 12 2013 22:41 Tosster wrote: Chances: NSH>Prime>MVP. End of story, why would STX disband, i don't understand why people vote this.
Because the main sponsor, the STX company is rumored to be filing for bankruptcy....... Stocks prices are being oversold..which means they are having financial problems.
Well Jin Air sponsored Team 8 which is 7. in proleague. Don't you think they would have sponsored STX instead if they could.
On July 12 2013 22:41 Tosster wrote: Chances: NSH>Prime>MVP. End of story, why would STX disband, i don't understand why people vote this.
Because the main sponsor, the STX company is rumored to be filing for bankruptcy....... Stocks prices are being oversold..which means they are having financial problems.
Well Jin Air sponsored Team 8 which is 7. in proleague. Don't you think they would have sponsored STX instead if they could.
Most probably the timing, at the point Jin Air is looking for a team to sponsor, it might be months ago, right? tbh, we don't know much the information on this matter. But the fact is, STX are having big financial problem.
On July 12 2013 21:39 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Prime was my prediction to disband from the start of the year. Though now it feels a bit odd since they just moved into a new team house and picked up a few new players iirc.
It'd be sad if they go. I was never the biggest Prime fan, but they're one of the oldest eSF teams. :/
Maybe it'll be NSH instead.
edit: oh yeah! I forgot about STX. Kind of just instantly blocked Kespa out of my mind since they have so much bank, then I remembered the rumors :x.
LG-IMBogus (yes he comes to his sense and changes his name back!)
we need a good terran!
Innovation is coming to CJ if STX shuts down the team.
If STX were to lose their sponsor I would imagine Kespa would step in like they did with Team 8, which means they wouldn't be "disbanding". I would put my money on Prime/NSHS/MVP.
Only jjakji, brave and madbull will find a new team if they ask for it. The rest will be dumped on as practice partners or retire. Jjakji to FXO, brave to I dunno any team that wants a protoss and madbull probably to a foreign team, I could see that happening.
On July 12 2013 23:26 Elite_ wrote: Poor newer NSH players, man... They could have some real promise but won't be able to show any of it if no one recruits them.
Anyways, it's time to guess the player's new teams.
On July 12 2013 23:26 Elite_ wrote: Poor newer NSH players, man... They could have some real promise but won't be able to show any of it if no one recruits them.
Anyways, it's time to guess the player's new teams.
SSanaEE would be a great pickup by one of the KeSPA teams. I feel like a foreign team should pick up Jjakji since he shows signs of brilliance and sings of badness. Liquid`JjakJi inc.
On July 12 2013 23:31 FromShouri wrote: So then of the original esf teams(slayers prime zenex im tsl ogs etc.) are im and prime the only original teams? Also what does this do with gstl?
IM/Prime/Startale are the only original teams left (Mvp came later) as for GSTL they'll probably just stick to round robin unless they find another team to participate.
On July 12 2013 22:08 DJHelium wrote: Didn't jjakji say that NSH disbanding was very unlikely in some interview? He reacted almost like it would be shocking.
How is MVP doing sponsorwise?
Didn't DRG cancel his DH participation because MVP didn't want to pay to send him overseas? :x
Kinda fair tho, DRG hasnt showen anything last 6 months to be sent on a expensive trip to Sweden?
DRG carried his team for so long and he is the only fan favorite on MVP. He could have left them for any other team whenever he wanted to but he stayed loyal for some reason.
On July 12 2013 23:26 Elite_ wrote: Poor newer NSH players, man... They could have some real promise but won't be able to show any of it if no one recruits them.
Anyways, it's time to guess the player's new teams.
SSanaEE would be a great pickup by one of the KeSPA teams. I feel like a foreign team should pick up Jjakji since he shows signs of brilliance and sings of badness. Liquid`JjakJi inc.
I think SSanaEE will be picked up by ROOT... He seems like he's BFFs with Sage.
On July 12 2013 23:31 FromShouri wrote: So then of the original esf teams(slayers prime zenex im tsl ogs etc.) are im and prime the only original teams? Also what does this do with gstl?
This takes NSH out of GSTL and maybe adds another foreign team to it(?) If not it will be the same as last season just with 7 less matches.
On July 12 2013 23:31 FromShouri wrote: So then of the original esf teams(slayers prime zenex im tsl ogs etc.) are im and prime the only original teams? Also what does this do with gstl?
I don't think LG-IM and MVP will stay with ESF and GSTL. Both will go to Kespa. Reason? LoL Proleague, obviously...
I honestly think Prime should disband as well. They are most likely living on prize money which means that the players are basically wasting their time since they gain nothing in the end.
On July 12 2013 23:31 FromShouri wrote: So then of the original esf teams(slayers prime zenex im tsl ogs etc.) are im and prime the only original teams? Also what does this do with gstl?
I don't think LG-IM and MVP will stay with ESF and GSTL. Both will go to Kespa. Reason? LoL Proleague, obviously...
Was´nt there an announcement about a cooperation of both teamleagues? With NSH gone and STX probably not lasting that long as well, it could be possible with a slightly changed format.
Yeah im honestly kinda happy about NSH disbanding just cause we'll be able to see Jjakji SSanaEE and Madbull training with better teams, all three look like they have a lot of potential
On July 13 2013 00:00 Random2732 wrote: Yeah im honestly kinda happy about NSH disbanding just cause we'll be able to see Jjakji SSanaEE and Madbull training with better teams, all three look like they have a lot of potential
I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
On July 12 2013 23:46 Bowzar wrote: I honestly think Prime should disband as well. They are most likely living on prize money which means that the players are basically wasting their time since they gain nothing in the end.
Prime is one of the only team to give chance to amateurs to go pro lately, it would be awful if they disband. As for "living on the players prize money", those are only speculations and rumors.
As for the people saying that because MKP is streaming, it means that Prime will disband, is just plain stupid. When he streamed a lot few weeks ago, shortly after the new players and team house were announced, everyone was thinking the opposite way...god the hivemind can be SO stupid
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Jjakji and Madbull should definitely be picked up. Id even say Tassidar would be picked up too but the rest aren't nearly good enough given recent performances.
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
why is STX on this? Are they in that much trouble? I would've figured Prime or NSH as the top two, dunno who else after lol. NSH wasn't a particularly strong team and I'm sure their members can still continue with other teams when they close down if they want to continue.
why is STX on this? Are they in that much trouble? I would've figured Prime or NSH as the top two, dunno who else after lol. NSH wasn't a particularly strong team and I'm sure their members can still continue with other teams when they close down if they want to continue.
There were rumors about STX if i recall and while NSH is not doing well, since they are sponsored by the university i honestly don't see them going down without all the players actually leaving.
Quick fact I just randomly run into; Jjakji is actually the player with the most overall GSTL wins (tied with Gumiho, but with less losses), so he should´nt have many problems getting into a new team.
LOL of course it was NSHS. They have had no good results for a long, long time now. But STX is almost surely disbanding as well, and Prime's time is coming soon if they don't get on their shit.
why is STX on this? Are they in that much trouble? I would've figured Prime or NSH as the top two, dunno who else after lol. NSH wasn't a particularly strong team and I'm sure their members can still continue with other teams when they close down if they want to continue.
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
ESF teams needs to realize that SC2 is not just Korea anymore but its global. They also need to fucking market their team better. How hard is it to update your twitter/facebook every day? They have superstars on their team and they are hiding them. ESF teams motto seems to be "Results will solve all your problems." and that shit doesnt fly unless you are backed by a huge sponsor.
why is STX on this? Are they in that much trouble? I would've figured Prime or NSH as the top two, dunno who else after lol. NSH wasn't a particularly strong team and I'm sure their members can still continue with other teams when they close down if they want to continue.
No NSHoseo! It really isn't surprising (more surprising that they have lasted this long TBH) but still sad. Hoping that Jjakji and Tassadar are able to find teams. Especially for jjakji. I want so badly for him to find a good team to practice with to rise to the top again!
On July 13 2013 00:47 Bowzar wrote: ESF teams needs to realize that SC2 is not just Korea anymore but its global. They also need to fucking market their team better. How hard is it to update your twitter/facebook every day? They have superstars on their team and they are hiding them. ESF teams motto seems to be "Results will solve all your problems." and that shit doesnt fly unless you are backed by a huge sponsor.
All the teams are the same, only that Kespa has bigger sponsors and actual results..
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
the new WCS system is hurting the spread of esports teams and regions a lot. It's just makes the strong ones with the money even stronger, but does not help the small an upcomers at all. Dunno if that's what Blizzard intended with it, but that's what's going on. It's a big bucket full of bullshit, I really hope they change it bigtime for 2014 before it's too late.
STX maybe bankrupt but, KeSPA won't let the team disband. They'll do the same thing that they did with Team8 until another sponsor comes along. If in fact it does come to that.
On July 13 2013 01:03 MetricYAO wrote: STX maybe bankrupt but, KeSPA won't let the team disband. They'll do the same thing that they did with Team8 until another sponsor comes along. If in fact it does come to that.
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
I'll never forget how ecstatic the whole NSH team were when Jjakji won his GSL title, real shame they won't get the chance to add any more to that trophy cabinet.
Startale.Madbull would be pretty awesome. Startale still searching for that protoss ace to fill in Squirtle/Parting's shadows, and Avenge is only semi-delivering so far. Madbull has shown great promise so far, not to mention him and life would likely be the most entertaining pair of co-aces ever, if Madbull does well.
I would have picked Prime because they only had like 5 members for a time, but they acquired a bunch of new players so I have to guess NSH. They've been the quiet team in Korea for the most part. It was always Prime, Startale, LG-IM, FXO, MVP, Slayers, oGs as the big names (then Slayers and oGs disbanded).
On July 13 2013 01:10 xAdra wrote: Startale.Madbull would be pretty awesome. Startale still searching for that protoss ace to fill in Squirtle/Parting's shadows, and Avenge is only semi-delivering so far. Madbull has shown great promise so far, not to mention him and life would likely be the most entertaining pair of co-aces ever, if Madbull does well.
That would be pretty sick but Avenge has actually done quite impressively IMO compared to his previous results. You might not be able to call him a top 10 protoss yet but he is getting there. His performance in Code A has been pretty good and his GSTL numbers are good, especially with a 3-kill vs AZUBU earlier today. I think Avenge is almost to the point where he could be considered a protoss ace beyond the fact that the other startale protosses are just not performing well at all. Maybe a new teammate like Madbull is what he needs though, so while I'm sad for NSH, I'm excited to see where their players like jjakji and Madbull and Tassadar go.
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
This is not AT ALL the way corporations work during bankruptcy. They shed out the low-ROI investments (most endorsements), and re-focus on their core assets. Anyone thinking a SC2 team division in Korea (I'm laughing just thinking about it) has any weight to a company that has filed for bankruptcy are just fooling themselves.
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
ESF teams needs to realize that SC2 is not just Korea anymore but its global. They also need to fucking market their team better. How hard is it to update your twitter/facebook every day? They have superstars on their team and they are hiding them. ESF teams motto seems to be "Results will solve all your problems." and that shit doesnt fly unless you are backed by a huge sponsor.
I would love to discuss this more extensively as i think this is the actual biggest shift that happened in esports for the past couple of years (even bigger than the whole streaming/twitch thing). If you look at the richest esports team today, there is something you have to understand about what they do : not only they are still "classical" esports team that tries to mimic the sports world, but today they also are full web marketing agencies. If you look at real sports, you could say that professional sports team also do this to a certain extent but i think esports is different. Today to land big sponsorship you have to have a crew of dedicated graphic designers/programmers and web marketers that provide analytics and numbered values to their sponsors.
EG was the first and the best at understanding this, and that's why they are the richest team today. All the foreigner teams have taken this train for quite some times now but the Korean teams (KeSPA and eSF alike, with the exception of FXO maybe, but FXO is australian management anyways) keep being blind to this. This is not in their culture of esports, and Korean culture can be VERY rigid when it comes about change, especially in the corporate world.
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
This is not AT ALL the way corporations work during bankruptcy. They shed out the low-ROI investments (most endorsements), and re-focus on their core assets. Anyone thinking a SC2 team division in Korea (I'm laughing just thinking about it) has any weight to a company that has filed for bankruptcy are just fooling themselves.
I'd say this too if they didn't have the best player in the world (INnoVation.)
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
This is not AT ALL the way corporations work during bankruptcy. They shed out the low-ROI investments (most endorsements), and re-focus on their core assets. Anyone thinking a SC2 team division in Korea (I'm laughing just thinking about it) has any weight to a company that has filed for bankruptcy are just fooling themselves.
I'd say this too if they didn't have the best player in the world (INnoVation.)
The people making the decision whether to keep that team going or not probably don't even know who INnoVation is.
On July 13 2013 01:39 stratmatt wrote: I seem to remember total biscuit being a huge jjakji fanboy for some reason. Maybe axiom.jjakji?
I feel like besides MVP, jjakji is my favorite sc2 player. Sometimes he loses, but damn when he wins, he looks really fucking GREAT.
TB doesn't know anything about sc2. I don't think picking players for Axiom's squad is something he's going to be doing.
TB's wife is the owner and manager of Axiom and he has a hand in everything the team does... Then again you only have 2 posts and probably know nothing about what you're talking about... or you're a massive troll. ~_~
On July 12 2013 21:45 lichter wrote: Would be strange if it were STX. Sure Pan Ocean is going bankrupt, but the company is still profitable despite their horrendous investments. They just need to refinance that debt. Company image is important in times like this, and keeping a popular Starcraft team can have a more positive impact than the extra few million Won they'd save cutting them.
This is not AT ALL the way corporations work during bankruptcy. They shed out the low-ROI investments (most endorsements), and re-focus on their core assets. Anyone thinking a SC2 team division in Korea (I'm laughing just thinking about it) has any weight to a company that has filed for bankruptcy are just fooling themselves.
I'd say this too if they didn't have the best player in the world (INnoVation.)
Who the hell cares about INnoVation... you're talking about a multi billion dollar company here. Them having INnoVation does nothing to help them get out of bankruptcy.. and like someone said above, the directors probably don't even know who he is nor give a rats ass about StarCraft.
It's quiet sad, but nshs had it coming for a long time. They just aren't a real competitor anymore. Jjakji and maybe madbull who are both around Code A level are not enough to keep a team afloat.
Maybe Jjakji will move to a foreign team? I for one, would very much like to see Jjakji as a the much needed terran addition to the liquid roster.
Seriously NSH have been up on the deathbed for so long that I've thought that they are wall off with the University =/ I wonder if the University is just tired with their performance of if they are switching games.
On July 13 2013 00:05 Marou wrote: I don't think it will be Prime...i was at the new teamhouse few weeks ago and talked to Gerrard about that. While he said that the team has financial problems (i think it's been like this for over a year now and never hidden that fact), he said he want to focus and the future and don't think about the financial problems.
I think Prime will still be there for WCS Season 3 at least, and i hope GSTL will still happen next season.
Now, I obviously wasn't there so I don't know any of the details about your conversation with him beyond that tl;dr, but I would think "not thinking about the financial problems" isn't really a way to go about fixing it
Well he IS trying to find new sponsors for a very long time now...see how Team 8 struggled to get a sponsor whereas they are member of KeSPA which basically is an organisation fielded by chaebols representatives with contact books larger that you could ever imagine and you can get an idea of how hard it is to get a sponsor for an eSF team if you don't have 5+ GSL titles. There was a big surge of sponsorship from energy drinks brand, everybody got one except Prime, i know they are trying tho...almost every single eSF team has an energy drink as a sponsor but not Prime.
The only brand left that is not sponsoring someone is Monster...i really wish Prime could get some of that Monster money, but look at where Monster is investing money, and it's not into "promising" talent but much more into established team/competitions with marketing people working there.
+ the new WCS system, which basically locks down korean players that can't afford to travel half way across the world and you have a situation where marketing yourself toward companies that have little to no business in Korea impossible, unless, again, you can afford to field your players in other WCS regions.
This is a circle of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, i guess you could call it survival of the fittest, but still i want to believe that Prime will stay. Maru just has to win the OSL and WCS Season 2 i guess ^_T
ESF teams needs to realize that SC2 is not just Korea anymore but its global. They also need to fucking market their team better. How hard is it to update your twitter/facebook every day? They have superstars on their team and they are hiding them. ESF teams motto seems to be "Results will solve all your problems." and that shit doesnt fly unless you are backed by a huge sponsor.
I would love to discuss this more extensively as i think this is the actual biggest shift that happened in esports for the past couple of years (even bigger than the whole streaming/twitch thing). If you look at the richest esports team today, there is something you have to understand about what they do : not only they are still "classical" esports team that tries to mimic the sports world, but today they also are full web marketing agencies. If you look at real sports, you could say that professional sports team also do this to a certain extent but i think esports is different. Today to land big sponsorship you have to have a crew of dedicated graphic designers/programmers and web marketers that provide analytics and numbered values to their sponsors.
EG was the first and the best at understanding this, and that's why they are the richest team today. All the foreigner teams have taken this train for quite some times now but the Korean teams (KeSPA and eSF alike, with the exception of FXO maybe, but FXO is australian management anyways) keep being blind to this. This is not in their culture of esports, and Korean culture can be VERY rigid when it comes about change, especially in the corporate world.
Oh, I didnt realize they made a new facebook. Thats good to know. Still its so sad to see all these Korean teams disband because they cant find sponsors. I know a lot of that has to do with GOM for some reason refusing to release their stream numbers but there are still so many things you can do to promote your team. At least they are thanking their sponsors now, I remember that they didnt do that in the beginning.
Sad, sad day. They've been dying for a long time, however. I wish they'd had the money to keep all the players that left - they were such an exciting team with a really unique set of players who brought a lot to the game which you have to imagine was partly down to the team itself.
On July 13 2013 03:35 DinosaurJones wrote: I think the only guys that would have a hope of getting picked up would be jjakji and Madbull. MAYBE Tassadar...
Well, as far as I know, KeSPA teams have regular tryouts, atleast for their lowest tier of team, no? They could have their chances there.
On July 13 2013 03:35 DinosaurJones wrote: I think the only guys that would have a hope of getting picked up would be jjakji and Madbull. MAYBE Tassadar...
Well, as far as I know, KeSPA teams have regular tryouts, atleast for their lowest tier of team, no? They could have their chances there.
Technically they have that possibility, but judging from what they have shown us, they realistically don't have a chance to pass those tests. Unless of course there is some sleeper talent there that just hasn't had the opportunity to shine yet.
This was supposed to happen late last year after they got destroyed in GSTL. I'm surprised they've lasted this long. The market in Korea isn't big enough to support all these teams. Oh well. Jjakji will find a team quickly, as for the rest, IDK.
On July 13 2013 04:54 Markwerf wrote: good riddens, team was pretty much forgettable with only the surprise GSL winner jakji who never performed anything else.
One step closer to GSTL disbanding and being absorbed by PL!
I don't know about forgettable man... I mean they had mad hype around them when they made their debut in the GSTL, taking 1st place in a group with IM and ST, all-killing fOu, FXO, ZeNEX, beating ST and only losing to LosirA... they had a good run. Sage was one of the most hyped players right around that time, Artosis was even calling him the best Protoss on the planet (yeah, lol) and they also had Seal with the insane creep spread and Freaky with the mass infestor shenanigans.
Plus San... I mean people love San lol.
A strong team? Maybe not, certainly not recently, but I wouldn't call them forgettable. :/
On July 13 2013 00:00 Random2732 wrote: Yeah im honestly kinda happy about NSH disbanding just cause we'll be able to see Jjakji SSanaEE and Madbull training with better teams, all three look like they have a lot of potential
better teams, or EG...
ahahahahah 5/5 post
Hope Jjakji will find new team. Is Madbull good player? Always though that he is just hyped as fuck for no real reason :D
He's pretty decent, he's shown some really good play in some of his games. Stats-wise though, not so hot. But the community loves going ape-shit with these terrible "jokes" (I'm sorry, they're not really jokes, they're just painful attempts at forcing memes as far as I'm concerned) about how such and such is amazing (see also: Clide).
On July 13 2013 03:35 DinosaurJones wrote: I think the only guys that would have a hope of getting picked up would be jjakji and Madbull. MAYBE Tassadar...
Well, as far as I know, KeSPA teams have regular tryouts, atleast for their lowest tier of team, no? They could have their chances there.
Technically they have that possibility, but judging from what they have shown us, they realistically don't have a chance to pass those tests. Unless of course there is some sleeper talent there that just hasn't had the opportunity to shine yet.
Well, I mean Mamuri (ex-TSL) is now part of SKT and I doubt that BoxeR pulled him over like he did with Dark and Brown. So I think this is one example of that sleeper talent.
On July 13 2013 03:35 DinosaurJones wrote: I think the only guys that would have a hope of getting picked up would be jjakji and Madbull. MAYBE Tassadar...
Well, as far as I know, KeSPA teams have regular tryouts, atleast for their lowest tier of team, no? They could have their chances there.
Technically they have that possibility, but judging from what they have shown us, they realistically don't have a chance to pass those tests. Unless of course there is some sleeper talent there that just hasn't had the opportunity to shine yet.
Well, I mean Mamuri (ex-TSL) is now part of SKT and I doubt that BoxeR pulled him over like he did with Dark and Brown. So I think this is one example of that sleeper talent.
And regardless of sleeping talent, I feel like there's simply less Korean amateurs competing to get into pro SC2 teams (or qualify for GSL/OSL) than there used to be and certainly less than we had in BW, so the ex-NSH players do have that going for them.
sad but not surprising. Everyone has wondered how they've lasted this long. Was just a matter of time once Kespa entered sc2. And its not necessarily a bad thing.
On July 13 2013 05:41 derpface wrote: Wonder where jjakji will go?
Opinions?
i would guess retirement. the other esf teams are pretty broke and he isn't kespa caliber. if he was serious about progaming he would have gotten out of NSH a long time ago.
On July 13 2013 05:41 derpface wrote: Wonder where jjakji will go?
Opinions?
i would guess retirement. the other esf teams are pretty broke and he isn't kespa caliber. if he was serious about progaming he would have gotten out of NSH a long time ago.
You have a funny understanding of kespa caliber comsidering all the no names kespa holds. Jjakji is in Ro32 challenger, thus putting him already above half of all kespa players....
On July 13 2013 05:41 derpface wrote: Wonder where jjakji will go?
Opinions?
i would guess retirement. the other esf teams are pretty broke and he isn't kespa caliber. if he was serious about progaming he would have gotten out of NSH a long time ago.
Isn't kespa caliber? Didn't he just beat some kespa guy in code A like 2 days ago? Recently, jjaki looks a lot more in form then he has in a long time.
Probably for the best here. I don't understand anyone trying to defend NSHS. They don't really have anything going for them. Prime at least has good marketing and a clothing brand (kind of). They have a way to make enough money.
NSHS doesn't have anything.
This is a good opportunity for NSHS players to get themselves into a better environment and maybe advance their careers.
IF NSHS is going to disband, this would be quite sad...wehre jjakji is going to go then...well i think to Acer/Akiom as a replacement for the struggeling MMA or to a proleaguie team ( Green wings/T8, CJ or Samsung Khan) If its prime i would not understand there new investments ( 4 new members/ teamhouse) but maybe this was an overcoitement of them hoping they are going to do much better in teamleague /individual league and now there are running thin on money. In therms of STX disbanning is would it dont makes a lot of sence, beacause just now other teammembers apart of Innovation are starting to have success in the IV ( individual league) such as hyvaa or Trap. Also i have to admit HerO just postet " O M G" on facebook so this is maybe because an anoucement of a team disbanningor sth. like this, an if its hero reacting, its more likely to be a proleague team instead an esf one. Also i disagree with the idea of creator needing to leave Prime, couse Prime is the best environment for young players to grow ( alongside startale) and also Maru is proving you can have sucess in prime.
Perhaps Creator's poor results lately are caused by himself? It could be anything really. Don't blame the team if you don't know what you're talking about.
Sad to see NSH disbanding, I've always enjoyed following them in GSTL and their history of making great players has always been admirable. It's sad but nothing lasts forever and it's been some time since they've shown their full potential with Jjakji as the main example. All good in the future for the players!
On July 13 2013 06:47 SC2_Comeback wrote: IF NSHS is going to disband, this would be quite sad...wehre jjakji is going to go then...well i think to Acer/Akiom as a replacement for the struggeling MMA or to a proleaguie team ( Green wings/T8, CJ or Samsung Khan) If its prime i would not understand there new investments ( 4 new members/ teamhouse) but maybe this was an overcoitement of them hoping they are going to do much better in teamleague /individual league and now there are running thin on money. In therms of STX disbanning is would it dont makes a lot of sence, beacause just now other teammembers apart of Innovation are starting to have success in the IV ( individual league) such as hyvaa or Trap. Also i have to admit HerO just postet " O M G" on facebook so this is maybe because an anoucement of a team disbanningor sth. like this, an if its hero reacting, its more likely to be a proleague team instead an esf one. Also i disagree with the idea of creator needing to leave Prime, couse Prime is the best environment for young players to grow ( alongside startale) and also Maru is proving you can have sucess in prime.
Prime needs more of a mix. They got so many good terrans its unbelievable. Byun, MKP and maru on same team is a bit overkill. Maybe a protos+zerg player from NSH would be good? And jjaki could go to Startale for example. I think he would fit in there.
It's sad if NSH is remembered as the team who just kept losing and losing and losing.
I'd like it to be remembered as the team who offered us Sage vs sC on Crossfire, Bomber vs Seal on Bel'shir Beach, Sculp vs Symbol on (I want to say Metropolis?), and probably a few other great sc2 games I can't recall right now.
Yeah they were the weakest this season, yeah it's not really a surprise that they're disbanding. But there is some positive stuff to see as well. Why not focus on that?
On July 13 2013 07:08 Nebuchad wrote: It's sad if NSH is remembered as the team who just kept losing and losing and losing.
I'd like it to be remembered as the team who offered us Sage vs sC on Crossfire, Bomber vs Seal on Bel'shir Beach, Sculp vs Symbol on (I want to say Metropolis?), and probably a few other great sc2 games I can't recall right now.
Yeah they were the weakest this season, yeah it's not really a surprise that they're disbanding. But there is some positive stuff to see as well. Why not focus on that?
Edit: MMA isn't struggling anymore btw.
Because players like seal and sculp were only around for a short time, and most of their exposure came from the korean weekly, they didn't have a massive amount of impact in GSL/GSTL
Wouldn't be surprised if its PRIME. NSHoSeo does not need to disband - they get a little money for their university and thats enough for them to live off it.
On July 13 2013 13:36 ETisME wrote: guess SC2 isn't big enough to support this many teams
I THINK you're being sarcastic, but just in case:
NSHS's problems don't fall on overcrowding. Of course, one could speculate that there were not enough sponsors for the team. However, I would assert that this is a fallacious argument due to the fact that a team needs to handle their end before they can get major sponsorship, so one cannot blame companies for not sponsoring a team if it is not a successful one that will give a good return on investment. Moreover, there are dozens of companies currently supporting eSports, many of which are multi-million and a few of which are multi-billion. There is certainly money to give.
To start a team, one needs a good player base and an initial investment. NSHS had both of those things. To continue as a team which will not only support itself but eventually make money, one has to grow the player base and improve the current talent. This means results and personality in the players. Without results, one cannot obtain the second thing a team needs to sustain itself and its owners: major sponsorship. If NSHS was not getting results and producing exciting players (and they weren't, at least not to an extent at all meeting the standards of most major teams), they did not deserve sponsorship.
I can't believe it. This is saddening. jjakji was the initial reason I chose to like NSH, but it wasn't hard to realize how unique the NSH lineup of players was. San and Seal were popular before I knew about them. Freaky I'd give a special shoutout as he hilariously massed infestors to an impractical but sufficiently off-balancing degree. Sage and Tassadar, anticipated as future great Protosses in 2011 and still chugging along waiting for their moment. Sculp and Salvation being jjakji's Terran buddies. And MadBull and SSanaEE carrying on the wonky spirit of NSH. I only covered a few players from NSH's storied past, but there is no doubt this team will be missed.
My #1 favorite player jjakji will probably have to find a new team. While there are some teams I would prefer over others, I will support jjakji in wherever he goes. Good luck and goodbye to NSH.
too bad, i know jjakji really enjoyed the nshs training house environment and was fully content there. no doubt he will get a good new signing, hopefully his new environment will help propel him to greater success.
On July 13 2013 01:39 stratmatt wrote: I seem to remember total biscuit being a huge jjakji fanboy for some reason. Maybe axiom.jjakji?
I feel like besides MVP, jjakji is my favorite sc2 player. Sometimes he loses, but damn when he wins, he looks really fucking GREAT.
TB doesn't know anything about sc2. I don't think picking players for Axiom's squad is something he's going to be doing.
real1g doesn't know anything about Axiom. I don't think that his opinion is going to be something that we take into account.
Aha! Axiom JJakki confirmed! U dirty devil real1g, he mindgamed u
OMG Alex Garfield isnt a GM player on korean ladder, he doesnt know anything about hiring players and so on bla .... Alex does not need to know the game like a pro, because he has got pros that can advice him. Same goes for TB. The team will tell him if its a good idea or not. He and Genna will decide if its monetary feasable or not. Although a youtube vid of his validity would be greate. If he cant beat proxy tank you should drop him :-p
I am sure we will see some of the players beeing picked up, and i really hope axiom can get more sponsors so even more players can be picked up.
On July 13 2013 01:39 stratmatt wrote: I seem to remember total biscuit being a huge jjakji fanboy for some reason. Maybe axiom.jjakji?
I feel like besides MVP, jjakji is my favorite sc2 player. Sometimes he loses, but damn when he wins, he looks really fucking GREAT.
TB doesn't know anything about sc2. I don't think picking players for Axiom's squad is something he's going to be doing.
real1g doesn't know anything about Axiom. I don't think that his opinion is going to be something that we take into account.
Aha! Axiom JJakki confirmed! U dirty devil real1g, he mindgamed u
OMG Alex Garfield isnt a GM player on korean ladder, he doesnt know anything about hiring players and so on bla .... Alex does not need to know the game like a pro, because he has got pros that can advice him. Same goes for TB. The team will tell him if its a good idea or not. He and Genna will decide if its monetary feasable or not. Although a youtube vid of his validity would be greate. If he cant beat proxy tank you should drop him :-p
I am sure we will see some of the players beeing picked up, and i really hope axiom can get more sponsors so even more players can be picked up.
We are actualy comparing two completely different people now ? Who have complete different jobs ? Atleast name Gena instead of TB so it makes atleast some sense in actual management. Fanboyism it makes your post as silly as the one you quote.
On July 13 2013 01:39 stratmatt wrote: I seem to remember total biscuit being a huge jjakji fanboy for some reason. Maybe axiom.jjakji?
I feel like besides MVP, jjakji is my favorite sc2 player. Sometimes he loses, but damn when he wins, he looks really fucking GREAT.
TB doesn't know anything about sc2. I don't think picking players for Axiom's squad is something he's going to be doing.
real1g doesn't know anything about Axiom. I don't think that his opinion is going to be something that we take into account.
But you still don't have the necessary knowledge for sc2 imo.
Wow, a random guy on the internet gives advice to someone who has hosted, casted biggest sc2 tournaments and knows all the inns and outs of creating one of the strongest teams in the world.
On July 13 2013 01:39 stratmatt wrote: I seem to remember total biscuit being a huge jjakji fanboy for some reason. Maybe axiom.jjakji?
I feel like besides MVP, jjakji is my favorite sc2 player. Sometimes he loses, but damn when he wins, he looks really fucking GREAT.
TB doesn't know anything about sc2. I don't think picking players for Axiom's squad is something he's going to be doing.
real1g doesn't know anything about Axiom. I don't think that his opinion is going to be something that we take into account.
But you still don't have the necessary knowledge for sc2 imo.
Wow, a random guy on the internet gives advice to someone who has hosted, casted biggest sc2 tournaments and knows all the inns and outs of creating one of the strongest teams in the world.
Yea it's pretty absurd. I guess some people can't accept evidence that contradicts their viewpoint, even if its staring them in the face. ^^
Although I'd like as much as anyone to see jjakji actually have the funds to attend tons of events, seeing him on a foreign team would be strange after his unbreakable loyalty to his Korean team NSH. And I want to see him really improve on his new team...not there's any sort of curse or anything
I Hope all the players from NSH will find a new team , the korean scene is stacked with good players right know. and maybe Jjakji could do better without the pressure of needing to carry his whole team.
P.S I still don't understand why TotalBiscuit continues to give attention to nonames bashing him on the forums, they really don't deserve his attention.
I would really like to see Jjakji at Axiom, although it is true that they probably rather need a Zerg right now. But he is just such a likeable guy that I think Axiom would fit perfect to him. With NSH gone it is probably the major team that is the hardest to dislike.
On July 16 2013 03:48 Nirel wrote: I Hope all the players from NSH will find a new team , the korean scene is stacked with good players right know. and maybe Jjakji could do better without the pressure of needing to carry his whole team.
P.S I still don't understand why TotalBiscuit continues to give attention to nonames bashing him on the forums, they really don't deserve his attention.
Seriously, responding to trolls is a complete waste of time and exactly what they want him to do. TB's a busy man, just ignore a basher and let somebody be wrong on the Internet.
I'd like to see Jjakji go to an esF team, he is one of the thoughest terrans out there. But i'm rather more worried for SSanae and Madbull, they are not thzt well known and recognised as players so they might just retire...as they just started their career...
On July 16 2013 05:21 ErrantKnight wrote: I'd like to see Jjakji go to an esF team, he is one of the thoughest terrans out there. But i'm rather more worried for SSanae and Madbull, they are not thzt well known and recognised as players so they might just retire...as they just started their career...
jjakji's said he sees a lot of potential in SSanaEE and MadBull (and hopefully the other newer NSH members as well), so I think if they market themselves and maybe somehow show their skills to teams, they'll get picked up.
On July 16 2013 05:21 ErrantKnight wrote: I'd like to see Jjakji go to an esF team, he is one of the thoughest terrans out there. But i'm rather more worried for SSanae and Madbull, they are not thzt well known and recognised as players so they might just retire...as they just started their career...
I wouldn't be worried about the madgod, I'd assume most of the foreign teams have some know how about him from the fact that every time NSHS played him the LR thread would explode with madbull jokes.
As for MadBull and SSanaEE, one if not both going to Western Wolves. The two teams had a partnership before the disbanding. WW and Arthur parted which probably leaves some room in their budget for new players.
On July 31 2013 13:36 Arceus wrote: I know LGIM might be gearing up toward something by pick up another toss but Tassadar? They need specialized allin practice partner or something?
They want no contention for the title of "best Protoss team"
EPT
Brave
jjakji
KySarr
It was a good ride.
CJJJakJi. BEAT THAT
