EPTIdeally I think something needs to be changed, but I'd rather sit and wait for an actual good change than just bug Blizzard to do something rash. I agree it's time for a "review" though.
Hellbats Review - Page 5
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
Ideally I think something needs to be changed, but I'd rather sit and wait for an actual good change than just bug Blizzard to do something rash. I agree it's time for a "review" though. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NhrYUKY.png) | ||
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a3den
704 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:41 MorroW wrote: would i be totally crazy to suggest they buff the turret instead of nerfing hellbats? That was their reasoning with ZvZ, so why the hell not. On June 10 2013 02:43 ssxsilver wrote: I feel like the larger issue is the timing just comes too fast to where it's counter-intuitive to not go for HB drops. Maybe Blizzard can remove the ability to get them off reactor (thus making the hellion upgrade which no one gets more desirable). That's freakin' smart, forcing terrans to get more factories or get an upgrade so it doesn't get stupid as fast as it gets now. | ||
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
I think that's the biggest problem... | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:38 Dvriel wrote: Now just tell me how many workers die before your 4 marines+bunker kill two healed Hellbats.Maybe you got turret(100 mins more) and stll workers die... Depends on when you pull your workers, shouldn't be many. On June 10 2013 02:34 Dvriel wrote: Can anyone post a link with well defended hellbat drop? First only one medivac,then 2 ans 3....Wanna see this. Turret + WM. Boom1, boom2, no more medivac, no hellbats. Or kill them beforehand with vikings. And in pretty much every pro replay where hellbat drops are used the majority of the drops are well defended. Personally I have no issues with hellbat drops. Don't use them often myself, and have no problem with defending against them. Now hellbats in a main army just tanking your siege line when they (a-)move forward, that is a whole other story. Let alone when they drop them from medivacs on top of your siege line. That is something I have really issues with countering with bio-mech. But hellbat drops is just a matter of how much you invest in defense. And lets not forget if I look at the state of SC2 right now, I don't see a reason for any significant nerfs to terran. So for those who do want to heavily nerf the hellbat, also please consider how you would boost terran to compensate. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:45 a3den wrote: That was their reasoning with ZvZ, so why the hell not. I don't think that's a good idea. You can still easily drop both hellbats in the mineral with speedboost before the medivac dies even if the turret damage is buffed, while marine drops would get even less marines out while dropping, so I think that would do the opposite of wait we want: hellbat drops to not be so much more effective than bio drops. Yes hellbat drops would be slightly weaker, but bio drops would be even weaker. On June 10 2013 02:45 Zerg.Zilla wrote: Hellbats are transformed from hellions so it should be a mechanical unit...so how can a medivac heal a fucking car?!? I think that's the biggest problem... Meh, SCVs are also mechanical and biological at the same time. And they aren't just suits either, those are technically vehicles too.  | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:47 Emzeeshady wrote: You have a large amount of medivacs anyway due to your whole non hellcat army being bio :p. Besides there is nothing else to spend the gas on for Terran so I doubt they will cut back on medivacs if Hellbats get moved from a bio tag. 1) Not everyone plays bio, 2-3 base tank/hellbat timings can be very strong 2) A really sturdy hellbat can reduce the need for mass medivacs, instead a bio/hellbat army will be more viking-heavy taking out any colossi instantly At least in TvP I'm pretty damn sure removing the bio tag would be a buff to the hellbat. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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synd
Bulgaria586 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:38 Bagi wrote: The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame? The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end. Well, what's awkward is that hellbats are actually quite 'OP' in other matchups too. It's just that TvT shows a perfect comparasion how well the hellbats scale compared to other T units. I'm not saying that the other units sucks, the terran infantry was already very good but hellbats even tops it. TvZ - hellbats marine mine is the most ridiculously cost-efficient army comp ever made. Not to mention that it's strong. TvP - hellbats marauder TvT - whatever + hellbats still stronk! | ||
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
1. Increase the cost alot, to 150-200. 2. Require techlab. Both will nerf the hellbat drop but not the unit as an army component. It also has the benefit of basically requiring the transformation upgrade making army movement more dynamic and interesting to watch. | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:45 Existor wrote: Banner for good thread :D  I must use your epic picture instead of the shitty one I first thing googled I like the hellbat a lot in all other forms. I wish they stay the same in most cases. It is really sick to see marauders hellbat vikings in TvP. It is a more robust composition, and definitely fix the late game TvP, mass zealots in WOL. If hellbat is not biological, I seriously think it is a buff in TvP. Hellbats will soak up all archon shots. Did anyone actually test which hellbat is stronger against archon? Healing bat or non-bio bat? | ||
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takingbackoj
United States684 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:34 Sabu113 wrote: TvT isn't the matchup where hellbats are concerning.... It's like they wanted to make up for removing the terrible fucking idea that was the warhound by warhoundizing the hellbat. Terrible design for an unintelligent audience. Hellbats are only an issue in TvT on a entertaining viewership level. The problem balance wise comes from the risk vs reward of Hellbat drops in all matchups really. Every tactic should have pros and cons. Hellbats cost 100 minerals and can decimate mineral lines instantly if you arent completely on top of your game. What is the risk in doing them though? It's relatively easy on your apm, it doesn't take you out of your way tech wise (what terran isn't going to make at least a couple of medivacs), if its held perfectly by your opponent it doesn't really put him in an advantageous spot. Why wouldn't you do hellbat drops every game? There is no downside to them and the upside is huge, you can end the game pretty much outright. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:45 Zerg.Zilla wrote: Hellbats are transformed from hellions so it should be a mechanical unit...so how can a medivac heal a fucking car?!? I think that's the biggest problem... How a fucking green beam shooted from the sky, heals deceases and wounds through the heavy armor of a marauder ? It doesn't make sense in the first place, so I see no reason why the magical beam couldn't heal a car (unless the car is standing on 4 wheels of course.) | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:44 Insurrectionist wrote: Forget about nerfing, the problem with Hellbats isn't that they're too strong; but that it's a dreadful unit on par with the Roach, Marauder and - yes - Warhound. I have hated it since I first saw it, and the way it's insidiously wormed its way into dominating what seems like 2/3rds of all Terran matches in a given tournament has done nothing to disabuse me of the notion. I have about 250 games played in HotS and I've not once made or transformed a Hellbat because the beta already told me all I needed to know - that this piece of shit is anathema to all I find fun, far more so than the others mentioned that are merely boring and lazy. How it passed the beta while the Warhound didn't I'll never know. Be glad they don't have stim. Be very glad. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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awakenx
United States341 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
It's Hellbats + Medivacs, only. So much so that we see people reactoring out Medivacs against Vikings. Terran simply doesn't have a cost effective way of keeping Medivacs from dropping anything in a mineral line. Either nerf the Hellbat + Medivac combo, because that's what is strong. Not either unit alone. Or find some way for Terran to more cost effectively deny Medivacs from getting into a mineral line. If I know my opponent is going to fly Medivacs into my mineral line with a Medivac from minute 0, I should have some strategy that is able to deny that. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:52 Mowr wrote: My two suggestions (not original, I know): 1. Increase the cost alot, to 150-200. 2. Require techlab. Both will nerf the hellbat drop but not the unit as an army component. It also has the benefit of basically requiring the transformation upgrade making army movement more dynamic and interesting to watch. That is just a very bad idea. If you want that, then just remove hellbat alltogether and let it only be a transformation of hellion. (Make hellions from factory, as soon as armory is completed start researching transformation servos, send first medivac to forward hellions, transform them to hellbats, proceed to drop). Or find some way for Terran to more cost effectively deny Medivacs from getting into a mineral line. Widow mines. How exactly is the hellbat a major part of TvP and TvZ excluding Hellbat drop cheeses? Hellbats have enough of a role outside 'drop cheeses'. | ||
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