EPTyou can only make hellions and upgrade them to hellbats for 50 more gas and 25 more minerals . same as banelings from zerlings . no way back .
Hellbats Review - Page 2
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
you can only make hellions and upgrade them to hellbats for 50 more gas and 25 more minerals . same as banelings from zerlings . no way back . | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:55 xsnac wrote: my ideea : instead of making it like viking , cost nothing to transform add something like you can only make hellions and upgrade them to hellbats for 50 more gas and 25 more minerals . same as banelings from zerlings . no way back . That would not solve the issue of hellbat drops in TvT, which is the only problem with the unit right now. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
The real issue Is that the vulture doesn't transform into the marauder in bw Patch pls | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Hellbats finally give me a way of going mech vs protoss and zerg as well as bio terran without being instantly behind as the composition that should be cost efficient (mech) isn't at all without hellbats. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
With blizzards more wait in see approach in HoTS it's much more likely the game at the end of HoTS is better then it was at the end of WoL; where they were rather quick to nerf things and the game got stagnant at the end. Whether or not the hellbat ends up becoming the only go to unit (creating stagnation strat wise), remains to be seen, it's getting popular but it's not quite at the BL/Infestor level just yet. Only if it becomes THE option like 99.9% of the time should blizzard be looking at nerfing it. This is coming from a Zerg player who wouldn't mind one bit if hellbats did get nerfd mind you. Hard to complain about anything that makes my life in game easier  | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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Confuse
2238 Posts
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:32 bhfberserk wrote: *This is not a balance talk, but more of a Terran's strategy options comparing Hellbat drop-play to other options. Are we doom to see Hellbat drop non-stop in TvT?? So, let's talk about HB strictly in TvT and put aside other race balance. Poll: Is it time for Blizzard to take a look at Hellbat? Yes (3024) No (643) 3667 total votes Your vote: Is it time for Blizzard to take a look at Hellbat? Strictly speaking about TvT and hellbat drops, the most skilled player wins, also, as a spectator I find it very entertaining. So, for the sake of balance with the other races let's just not nerf the hellbat, not yet (maybe in Legacy of Void) | ||
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
Only minerals for something that mauls zealots, lings, (sort of marines) and is basically even with a roach 1:1. You can still fit four hellions in a medivac, so while people felt at the time that changing it to two for hellbats might have been enough, it doesn't change the fact that there wouldn't be a problem with four in a medivac if they were appropriately strong. Avoiding talk of racial balance and instead focussing on for unit design, you can think about units needing to have generally similar strength and/or utility for minerals, gas and supply (maybe build time too) but you can forget about comparing cargo space taken up. How expensive are the other units that only a pair of can fit into transports? Immortals, Archons and Siege Tanks use 4, 4 and 3 supply, cost 250/100, 100/300 and 150/125 and take 55, ~67 (supposing two HT warped in at once) and 45 while Hellbats' stats are 2, 100/0 and 30(also ×2 production with a reactor, which is not possible for tanks). Isn't it a fundamental flaw to increase the cargo size for a unit that supposedly isn't as strong as the others at that cargo size, in order to try to weaken the unit? Surely it should either - use this cargo size and have its cost significantly increased because it must obviously be worth more resources if it takes up so much supply OR (this one, please) - be appropriately weakened or made more expensive while going back to only using 2 cargo spaces. For the same cost and supply, 1 zealot and 2 marines both take up two slots (although 4 zerglings use four when logically I guess a pair should use 1  ). | ||
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Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:40 gobbledydook wrote: hellions don't require gas and it has never been a problem... I think you didn't get the joke | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
Even if you can't.... bunker 2-3 marines is fine as long as you have a turret as well. We have seen hellbats do almost no damage in TvT when the opponent actually invests in bunkers. This is coming from a terran player who does Hellbat drops in TvT TvZ into bio and uses hellbats in TvP against chargelot templar | ||
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Penev
28481 Posts
to encourage mech play. It gives that tech path an easier harass option and with that some mobility. That's also why they can be healed by medivacs imo; So that people are more inclined to build those also (mobility). (That and they tank well (against Zealots) of course). | ||
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sevia
United States954 Posts
Off the top of my head, a few constructive suggestions - feel free to criticize: - Remove hellbat's bio tag (simple, but not ideal for TvP & TvZ) - Make speed-boost accelerate and decelerate in a bell-curve pattern instead of instant speed boost (starts off slowly, but peaks at a faster speed - taking more skill to enter the mineral line at peak speed, and limiting instant-escape potential). Quick MS Paint diagram - Divide speed-boost and healing into two 'modes', with a transform time like thors. An upgrade enables both at once. - Increase speed-boost's cooldown slightly, and make it start on cooldown. It's always possible that someone will come up with a solution to these drops before any change is necessary, so I hope Blizzard takes their time - but if the next 2-3 tournaments' TvTs are like the ones we saw at WCS, something should be done. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On June 10 2013 01:45 Hypemeup wrote: Hellbats are fine. IdrAs opinions on balance have always been useless, I dont know why you bring him up. that is neither here nor there. this thread isn't about shitting on idra. i clearly stated that I was curious to know what pro players think of hellbats and i said that idra, as an example, has already stated what he thought about hellbats. idra (ie, most pro players) does have credibility, at least much more than most people posting in this thread. :/ | ||
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Hypemeup
Sweden2783 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:10 Erik.TheRed wrote: The transformation should just add armor rather than HP, remove the bio tag, and maybe enable a blue flame cone or some other spell (napalm grenade?) rather than just being able to a-move and own everything. It makes more intuitive sense that way and I think it would be much more exciting to play with/against and also to spectate. The idea was for it to be an A-move unit because terran already had the most difficult to handle lategame army. On June 10 2013 02:14 Incognoto wrote: that is neither here nor there. this thread isn't about shitting on idra. i clearly stated that I was curious to know what pro players think of hellbats and i said that idra, as an example, has already stated what he thought about hellbats. idra (ie, most pro players) does have credibility, at least much more than most people posting in this thread. :/ You brought up IdrA, I just pointed out that his ideas about balance have always been ridiculous and biased. That is like asking Avilo on terran balance. But I am quite curious what Korean/Kespa pros think about the hellbat. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
The hellbat is there to punish areas that are poorly defended and actually takes a lot of pickup micro to be effective. Not to mention, it has created very entertaining games. Its a worthy replacement of reaver drops | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
On June 10 2013 02:08 sevia wrote: I think the problem lies less with the hellbats themselves, and more with the early-game out-of-the-box potential of medivacs. Off the top of my head, a few constructive suggestions - feel free to criticize: - Remove hellbat's bio tag (simple, but not ideal for TvP & TvZ) - Make speed-boost accelerate and decelerate in a bell-curve pattern instead of instant speed boost (starts off slowly, but peaks at a faster speed - taking more skill to enter the mineral line at peak speed, and limiting instant-escape potential). Quick MS Paint diagram - Divide speed-boost and healing into two 'modes', with a transform time like thors. An upgrade enables both at once. - Increase speed-boost's cooldown slightly, and make it start on cooldown. It's always possible that someone will come up with a solution to these drops before any change is necessary, so I hope Blizzard takes their time - but if the next 2-3 tournaments' TvTs are like the ones we saw at WCS, something should be done. I really like your ideas on balancing the medivac boost. Hellbats are great units, but the only problem is how easily they can access a mineral line thanks to the medivac | ||
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