Obviously we'd like to see how they turn out in the coming weeks, but initially we're thinking:
1. Too easy to execute 2. Especially in TvT, not a lot of risk to doing them (when you don't lose the Medivac) 3. Might be too early before defenses can be ready
Rather than jumping to conclusions right now, we'll keep a close eye on it and if in fact Hellbat drops do turn out too strong, we'll do something like rolling in some of their damage with the Infernal Pre igniter upgrade.
It's great that Blizzard held off on the nerf hammer for HOTS to let the metagame settle in. Now that the WCS season 1 is over, maybe it is time to look at Hellbats in TvT?
*This is not a balance talk, but more of a Terran's strategy options comparing Hellbat drop-play to other options. Are we doomed to see Hellbat drops non-stop in TvT?? So, let's talk about Hellbats strictly in TvT and put aside other race balance issues.
Problem: Hellbat drop is so efficient in its potential damage compared to other options in TvT.
Let's compare a Medivac of 8 Marines to 2 Hellbats: 8 Marines, 400 minerals 2 Hellbats, 200 minerals.
8 Marines, 25s x 4 build time 2 Hellbat 30s build time (It is ready to move out and deal massive damage!)
Hellbat drop only needs to drop out 2 units for maximum damage. Marine drop needs to drop out all 8 Marines as well as Stim to get full damage.
This is by far the biggest problem I see. The player can continue to attempt drops even if the opponent has already reacted to stop it. 2 Hellbats drop out so quickly.
Blizzard stated they balanced the game to favor the offensive side, but how much is too much? (SOTG EP94) A Hellbat drop requires much more defensive investment than any other harassment units in the game.
A Hellbat drop is by far the cheapest combo you can send to harass your opponent. It is not heavy in gas cost compared to a banshee.
A turret in the mineral line usually buys more time to react against a drop because it would force the Medivac to drop marines/hellions outside the mineral line, whereas Hellbat drops can ignore that by sacrificing the Medivac to get all units out right at the mineral line.
A turret + viking can completely shut down banshees and most early dropship plays.
The standard setup for Hellbat drops, however, seems to be a bunker and a turret in the mineral line. Bunker (100), 4 x Marine (200), 1 x Turret (100). Just around the same cost as a Hellbat drop.
Not saying Hellbat drops don't require good control, but compared to other forms of harassment, the micro seems to be simpler:
A successful Widow Mine burrow at the mineral takes more commands to execute, but the extra micro does not reward more.
A Banshee kiting her ass off can only 2 hit an SCV.
4 upgraded Blue Flame Hellions chasing all the running SCVs deal just about the same damage as 2 Hellbats.
The stakes are just not as high as losing a medivac full of marines, hellions or a single banshee. Because of the cost and rebuild time.
Metagame Observation: Gas into reactor hellions into armory + reactor factory + starport.
This opener is fairly standard now, since drop-play ignores ground terrain the strength of the build is less effected by map. (Of course, there are some maps where Hellbat drops are less effective, like the cross-spawn Whirlwind)
Opening with Hellbat drops is just so safe, so good and dominant.
So many problems with this unit the more you think about it: I feel the problem lies on its efficiency. It is relatively cheap/fast to get ready to be send out. It can deal damage even after defenses are set up. It is not a big loss even if completely shut down as it guarantees some lost mining time... etc...
Love it or hate it, lets talk about Hellbat!
Poll: Is it time for Blizzard to take a look at Hellbat?
Yes (3024)
82%
No (643)
18%
3667 total votes
Your vote: Is it time for Blizzard to take a look at Hellbat?
I think they should make it a little bit more expensive than it is now, maybe let it cost 125 minerals? It's quite hard to deal with in late game PvT also when it's included in compositions because of how cheap it is.
The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame?
The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end.
The only problem with hellbat drops for me is that you need to have quick reactions or you lose everything, if you're paying good attention then you can get away with losing just a couple SCVs.
Personally I don't think they need looking at as it's possible to reduce the damage they do, you just need good reactions and to be prepared.
Edit: I think this attention required bit is a good thing, I only have a problem cause I'm not good enough
"Players were hoping for innovative new mechanics and play, reinvigorating what was becoming a relatively stagnated and uninteresting gain. I can speak from personal experience here, and from watching others play, that most of the HotS excitement died off in about one week"
Couple of months later hellbats form the core of terran play while vipers and swarmhosts are vital in zerg late game.Not bad for a game with stagnant gameplay.Not to mention the beautiful 4th game by innovation with tempest at the wcs finals.
Back to the topic at hand.As for the hellbat meta I think it tends to be a bit imbalanced at this time.Helbats are deadly against any type of bio,can harass worker lines and even absorb damage.I think a lower damage or hp would make them more easy to counter since that incredible aoe damage of theirs is sort of unparaleled in the z and p races.One might argue about oracles doing the same to bio but oracle is mostly an early game allinish strat while hellbats are viable form early to late game and can be massed.I personally see the helbats as a sort of "marine of mech":low price,high damage and viable all game round.
On June 10 2013 01:38 Bagi wrote: The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame?
The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end.
who cares about TvT? Then answer me this who cares about ZvZ? Blizzard does. The hellbat is too strong and almost everyone knows it nerfing them would at least reduce the amount of strategies revolved around hellbat drop, and direct the meta game into a better place. This thread only talks about the TvT side of the Hellbat, not even including what it can do against Z and P.
On June 10 2013 01:38 Bagi wrote: The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame?
The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end.
LOL. A bunch of Terrans like me DO CARE about TvT. The problema IS the Hellbat. If the Hellbat lands your mineral line go to hell even If the Medivac die.Its the same situation as it once was with the BFHellions.Its just too much damage and its not the unique moment of SC2 history: Does anyone remember the PvP when it was 4gate ONLY??? Who does care about PvP? Well, lot of us. It was disgusting to watch as it was the Final today. Watching the best Terrans in the world beating themselves with hellbat drops...so lame. TvT is a good tactical positioning match.Well, it was BEFORE this Hellbat joke. They need nerf of the damage for sure and not be healed by medivacs.This will make them ALMOST equal as the BFH but they come faster and are cheaper...
We need the change!!!! Please David Kim, come here and see this. You said in SOTG(INcontrol: "are happy with Hellabts?" DK:"yes,..." INcontrol: "WHAT?") that the problema is the medivac,but I think you were pretty wrong and today Mvp and INnovation show it to all the world.
On June 10 2013 01:38 Bagi wrote: The hellbat whine is a bunch of fucking bullshit. Who cares about TvT anyway? Why would you limit perfectly balanced strategies in other match-ups because you don't exactly like the current TvT metagame?
The problem isn't the hellbat in the first place, it's the medivac booster with its ridiculously short cooldown. Add 5 seconds and hellbat drops lose all their mobility, the end.
LOL. A bunch of Terrans like me DO CARE about TvT. The problema IS the Hellbat. If the Hellbat lands your mineral line go to hell even If the Medivac die.Its the same situation as it once was with the BFHellions.Its just too much damage and its not the unique moment of SC2 history: Does anyone remember the PvP when it was 4gate ONLY??? Who does care about PvP? Well, lot of us. It was disgusting to watch as it was the Final today. Watching the best Terrans in the world beating themselves with hellbat drops...so lame. TvT is a good tactical positioning match.Well, it was BEFORE this Hellbat joke. They need nerf of the damage for sure and not be healed by medivacs.This will make them ALMOST equal as the BFH but they come faster and are cheaper...
We need the change!!!! Please David Kim, come here and see this. You said in SOTG(INcontrol: "are happy with Hellabts?" DK:"yes,..." INcontrol: "WHAT?") that the problema is the medivac,but I think you were pretty wrong and today Mvp and INnovation show it to all the world.
Changing the hellbat without fucking it up for other MUs(TvZ and TvP) where they are fine is a very tricky thing indeed.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NhrYUKY.png)
