Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 14

1346 Comments Post a Reply

Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 68 Next

Deleted User 261926

960 Posts

May 28 2013 19:31 GMT

#261

On May 29 2013 04:30 Mortal wrote:

Show nested quote +

you're complaining about zerg harass? what?

+ Show Spoiler +

seriously, what?

Well.. it is the weakest in the game. Not saying Z doesn't make up for it in other ways but an overlord drop buff could really help because the strategy is just a gimmick now.

Pursuit_

United States1330 Posts

May 28 2013 19:31 GMT

#262

On May 29 2013 04:29 Plansix wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 29 2013 04:20 Pursuit_ wrote:

On May 29 2013 04:08 Plansix wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:53 Pursuit_ wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:51 Plansix wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:46 Wingblade wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:43 sitromit wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:32 Wingblade wrote:

On May 29 2013 03:20 larse wrote:
Protoss is not underperforming in Korea.

David Kim got the wrong impression.

Here is the Korean winrate since release
[image loading]

http://i.imgur.com/GVFU7No.png

Here is April winrate:
[image loading]

http://i.imgur.com/2VGA4RP.png

You sure about that???

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Statistics

Did you actually look at the stats you posted?

Korea Code S: 48.9% PvZ, 50% PvT
Korea Code A: 54.8% PvZ, 48% PvT

I don't know how anyone can quote those stats as an indication of imbalance with a straight face.

Cherrypicking like a boss. Look at the overall WCS winrates. Of course the 30 games per matchup in Korea is all we need for balance right?

We can disregard the 33 percent PvT winrate in Europe because well hey it's not Korea right?

That is how you win arguments on the internet. You take "data" from the area that supports your argument and then claim over and over that all other data irrelevant for due to your data being the best. Just wait for the arguments that Korea is the highest level of play and all other regions don't matter, ever.(unless protoss is winning in those regions, then they should be nerfed because everyone isn't a GSL Korean pro)

Did you even read the discussion? The first post in this chain specifically says Protoss is not under performing IN KOREA. You're the one taking data that supports your argument when it doesn't apply.

edit: It's even bolded and highlighted.

Clearly 30 games from Korea are what we need to balance for the entire scene. Why do those 30 games matter more than others and why do people keep referencing them as if they are more important? Aren't they offset by that fact that there are only 6 protoss in the round of 8 across all three regions and there may be no protoss at the finals for WSC for season 1?

Protoss is definitely under performing in AM and EU, no arguments there. I'm merely amused that you are arguing to a completely different point than what was originally posted. The first post claimed that Protoss is not under performing in Korea; Wingblade disputed that, citing statistics which say Protoss is doing fine in Korea but not in AM / EU. And then you claimed people arguing that Protoss is doing fine in KR are cherry picking by only including statistics from KR, which was the point to begin with- that Protoss is doing fine in KR.

I'm really not sure what there is to argue about; Protoss is not under performing in Korea, which has a higher level of play than EU / AM, where Protoss admittedly is under performing. I'm not going to claim anything about balance, but at least get your statistics right. Maybe KR Protoss have just been more lucky rolling the dice, maybe more KR T/Z are in EU / AM than KR P, maybe foreign P are behind in the metagame, who knows.

I am more pointing out that people like to rehash a small set of data that supports their claim and ignore all other information. It is the standard for any balance argument. IF they didn't find it on Liquipedia, they would be seeking it from SCranks or some other data mining site and claiming there are to many protoss in a specific league. Or that ladder data doesn't support the claim. Or korean pros are complaining about the buff.

Its almost like I have seen this whole argument before.

But that's not what he did. His claim was exactly what the data shows. Anyway, I digress. Personally I think SC2 maps are too flat to begin with, IMO we need to bring in more dimensional play by buffing high ground advantages rather than making maps even flatter by adding in super fast high hp drops.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

May 28 2013 19:32 GMT

#263

On May 29 2013 04:26 sitromit wrote:

Show nested quote +

We just had a foreign Protoss get 2nd place in a tournament with several Korean players. At MLG top 4 was 2 Terrans, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss. At IEM we had 2 Terrans and 2 Protoss in Top 4, Protoss got 2nd. Protoss has a very good chance of winning WCS NA. Protoss is dominating in Proleague.

So just because there weren't too many Protoss in the top 8 of WCS KR and EU, when WCS KR Code S had very few Protoss to begin with because of the carry over from last season of WoL, that means Protoss doesn't go far in tournaments?

If the same stats were true for terrans and only 6 of them were in the round of 8 across all three regions, terran players would be losing their minds, claiming it was the return to WoL and demanding a buff to save their race. And as buff's go, this one is pretty minor.

Prog455

Denmark970 Posts

May 28 2013 19:32 GMT

#264

The reason why Protoss has such strong all-ins is because Warpgate neglects defenders advantage. Anything that does directly or indirectly buff Warp tech is simply going to make all-ins even stronger. Saying that this is going to change anything past Colossus tech is flat out stupid, because it is actually made a real difference in Protoss lategame, i am sure that some pro players would already have managed to find 100/100 in their budget to on an upgrade that comes from a building that is left completely idle once Colossus range is upgraded.

Wpgstevo

Canada79 Posts

May 28 2013 19:32 GMT

#265

Here's an interesting idea:

Put an upgrade on the Fleet beacon and Robo bay that allow non-massive units built from their respective production facilities to be warped in.

That would just be crazy, and maybe OP. But I wanna see immortal and oracle warp-ins :D.

LotV maybe?

Tobblish

Sweden6404 Posts

May 28 2013 19:33 GMT

#266

I don't approve, the protoss arsenal is enough as it is.
The players just have to get better...

dirtydurb82

United States178 Posts

May 28 2013 19:33 GMT

#267

A-BomB Ireland. May 29 2013 02:34. Posts 68 PM Profile Quote #
I APPROVELast edit: 2013-05-29 02:35:14
A-BOMB on http://www.justin.tv/abombtv (high level protoss stream)

If the goal is high-level, dynamic play, this is a good buff. I thought Toss were doing pretty well, but I guess the numbers don't lie.

Incognoto

France10239 Posts

May 28 2013 19:34 GMT

#268

On May 29 2013 04:20 figq wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agree the gimmicky aspect of it makes me sad too - I want to have more fun with drops as well and not just on a one time all-ins. About the function - technically they also provide creep, and especially with a queen or two in the drop you can even start spreading it. I've considered the following (possibly OP) change: Protoss can't warp on creep, that would make this function so much more important.

I don't really think that Overlords are the problem.. well maybe they are but I feel that no zerg unit can really be dropped effectively.

Think Marines or Hellions, both are high damage, mobile units. Zealots are similar and can be dropped, Immortals do really well against buildings.

2 Immortals
4 Zealots (+ warp-in)
8 Marines (+ heal + medivac speed)
4 Marauders (+ heal + medivac speed)
4 Hellions
2 Hellbats

What exactly can zerg drop to do damage?

Hydra are much too fragile and expensive to really be dropped. Banelings don't do sustained dps which is what you want in a drop (ie a drop left unattended will do MONSTROUS damage). Dropping anything else does seem gimmicky.

That said I guess maybe zergs could start experimenting with 4 or 8 roach drops. Though they won't really be as effective because they cost gas (so it sucks to lose them) and have only 8 dps (compared to a zealot's 13 and a marine's 10). So actually dropping Roaches should suck balls.

Come to think of it, it might be actually worth it to drop lings. 8 or 16 zerglings can do quite a number on a mineral line and they are the most expendable unit in the game. Also worth mentioning is that a few can be morphed into banelings (after they've been dropped) and then sent into mineral lines. That said, they aren't ranged (like marines) and they aren't resilient (like zealots tend to be).

Well, those are my 2 cents. I should try this out in game.

Clazziquai10

Singapore1949 Posts

May 28 2013 19:34 GMT

#269

Thank god I switched to protoss from terran...... Phew

drugsarebad

20 Posts

May 28 2013 19:34 GMT

#270

buff oracle..... useless cheese unit, low hp, too slow, too expensive

CakeSauc3

United States1437 Posts

May 28 2013 19:34 GMT

#271

On May 29 2013 04:26 Hydro033 wrote:
Give (Z)

Zerg a decent (T)

Way to harass, jesus. Give us viable nydus worms plz that cant be killed by 7 workers

Yeah, cause zerglings and mutas aren't already the best harass units in the game...

While I wouldn't mind a speed buff for the prism, I don't think it would change much in how each protoss matchup plays out. As others in this thread have pointed out, it's the units that the prism carries that create the problem, not the prism itself.

Scones

Wales99 Posts

May 28 2013 19:34 GMT

#272

On May 29 2013 04:30 Mortal wrote:

Show nested quote +

you're complaining about zerg harass? what?

+ Show Spoiler +

seriously, what?

You think zerg has alot of harrass options?

I have:
ling run bys.
mutas

That's all i can come up with

Phoenix2003

126 Posts

May 28 2013 19:35 GMT

#273

So T gets speedvacs and Z gets speed mutas, so I don't see what the big issue is. As for the whole removal of upgrades thing. Well, Siege up removal and Z no longer needs evo chamber for spores. Seems fair to me. P needs all the help they get from their current turtle to 200/200(or gimmicky all-ins/ timing attacks) playstyle. Naturally, the asshat T/Z players are opposed to any kind of upward mobility for protoss. No surprise there.*rollseyes*

Sein

United States1811 Posts

May 28 2013 19:36 GMT

#274

On May 29 2013 04:34 drugsarebad wrote:
buff oracle..... useless cheese unit, low hp, too slow, too expensive

Wait, what?

Riner1212

United States337 Posts

May 28 2013 19:37 GMT

#275

Lol this is such a retarded patch if they do follow through it. Protoss already has the strongest all ins... can open with several cheese and they are adding a speed buff to warp prism SERIOUSLY???? wtf..

FlukyS

Ireland485 Posts

May 28 2013 19:38 GMT

#276

Not even close to being a good change unless they reduce the speed of the warp prism top speed. If its the same as what the upgrade is it would be imbalanced for a number of different reasons in PvZ. FFing the ramp in the main, immortals or colossus drop and just overall being able to all in without any cost because the warp prism will always get away and getting it faster and earlier just means it will always be a thorn in the Zergs side throughout the game.

Add that to the fact that protoss isn't actually doing badly if you take pro league into account with Korean win rates means I can't see why this is even been suggested.

Mortal

2943 Posts

May 28 2013 19:38 GMT

#277

On May 29 2013 04:33 Tobblish wrote:
I don't approve, the protoss arsenal is enough as it is.
The players just have to get better...

easy there idra. this whole "the entirety of players playing your race are just shit" mentality is laffable.

skyyan

United States74 Posts

May 28 2013 19:39 GMT

#278

Maybe give immortals a warhound like passive attack that splashes against air. All will be well. ;D

p14c

Vatican City State431 Posts

May 28 2013 19:39 GMT

#279

The problem with the war prism is that it can warp an entire army in your base, the medivac has limited units inside...Look what a high level player like Rain can do in Proleague where he demolishes everyone...I think it just a problem of skill and map design. Usually Protosses are getting eliminated by Zergs not Terrans in tournaments. The worst match-up for Innovation and Flash is vP..Just saying.

SC2ShoWTimE

Germany722 Posts

May 28 2013 19:41 GMT

#280

On May 29 2013 04:26 sitromit wrote:

Show nested quote +

...where did i say that?
i just explained that winrates alone dont give any conclusion on how a race is doing. also, the metagame of hots is evolving constantly so pointing out tournaments like iem or mlg is pretty pointless.

Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 68 Next

Please or register to reply.

Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 14

Completed

Ongoing

Upcoming