EPTWarp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 13
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:17 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: sigh... some people are just terrible at understanding statistics. when one race is underperforming then you wont necessarily see that by looking at winrates. what you also need to look at is the amount of players of every race that get far in tournaments. it is obvious when there are only 2-3 players of a certain race in the ro16 that they will perform decently and push the winrate because they are most likely the best players of their respective race while there are a couple of mediocre players of the other races. We just had a foreign Protoss get 2nd place in a tournament with several Korean players. At MLG top 4 was 2 Terrans, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss. At IEM we had 2 Terrans and 2 Protoss in Top 4, Protoss got 2nd. Protoss has a very good chance of winning WCS NA. Protoss is dominating in Proleague. So just because there weren't too many Protoss in the top 8 of WCS KR and EU, when WCS KR Code S had very few Protoss to begin with because of the carry over from last season of WoL, that means Protoss doesn't go far in tournaments? | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:26 KawaiiRice wrote: warp prism force field ramp allins just skyrocketed to insane levels Yeah this is pretty much what I've been thinking haha. | ||
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Hydro033
United States136 Posts
 Zerg a decent  Way to harass, jesus. Give us viable nydus worms plz that cant be killed by 7 workers | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
if it happens | ||
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Nooborghini
Canada136 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:26 TheKefka wrote: I might buy Hots and play sc2 again just because of this if it happens ofc you would ryan... LOL | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
it'll happen. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
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GreyKnight
United States4720 Posts
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:20 Pursuit_ wrote: Protoss is definitely under performing in AM and EU, no arguments there. I'm merely amused that you are arguing to a completely different point than what was originally posted. The first post claimed that Protoss is not under performing in Korea; Wingblade disputed that, citing statistics which say Protoss is doing fine in Korea but not in AM / EU. And then you claimed people arguing that Protoss is doing fine in KR are cherry picking by only including statistics from KR, which was the point to begin with- that Protoss is doing fine in KR. I'm really not sure what there is to argue about; Protoss is not under performing in Korea, which has a higher level of play than EU / AM, where Protoss admittedly is under performing. I'm not going to claim anything about balance, but at least get your statistics right. Maybe KR Protoss have just been more lucky rolling the dice, maybe more KR T/Z are in EU / AM than KR P, maybe foreign P are behind in the metagame, who knows. I am more pointing out that people like to rehash a small set of data that supports their claim and ignore all other information. It is the standard for any balance argument. IF they didn't find it on Liquipedia, they would be seeking it from SCranks or some other data mining site and claiming there are to many protoss in a specific league. Or that ladder data doesn't support the claim. Or korean pros are complaining about the buff. Its almost like I have seen this whole argument before. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
The entire strength of the race comes from the fact that their intentions are hard to scout and that allins look virtually identical to macro play until the third nexus is dropped. So at most levels of skill, your opponent is playing guess the strat and loses when they guess wrong. At the top levels, they know what cues to look for and that's why Protoss is struggling. The real problems are that against Zerg, there is no counter for Swarmhost/Viper/mass static D at all, you have to kill them first. Once they have enough crawlers to defend all expansions from warpprism harass plus enough to defend their swarm hosts from being overrun, you're just screwed. Against Terran, you cannot take a third base without blink tech or you'll just die to drops. Since you need to research splash tech to not die to medivac timings before you can start blink this means Terran can have a fully saturated third before you can even start your third. You enter the midgame against an opponent who has literally double your income after MULEs, of course you're at a disadvantage. Terran right now can open rax, CC, CC, factory, starport and it's a near-guaranteed win if you don't do a blind allin or oracle proxy. There's no way you can out-macro that against Terran drops. | ||
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RoranRock
France294 Posts
would be insane to all in, in all match ups... but david kim, what are you waiting for nerf hellbats (healing or HP) | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:26 Hydro033 wrote: Give Zerg a decent Way to harass, jesus. Give us viable nydus worms plz that cant be killed by 7 workersyou're complaining about zerg harass? what? + Show Spoiler + seriously, what? | ||
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Hanzo_
United States29 Posts
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Savage88
Germany132 Posts
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:24 StarcraftNerd1547 wrote: The difference is, terran needs to be the agreessor, while protoss is content with sitting back and defending unless they are going for an allin. I understand that building dts is a lategame thing still, but I said PAST two bases. From my experience currently most tosses go super greeedy while protected by the mcore, once the planetary nexus isnt as effective anymore they already have most of what they need, so currently most tosses go ht and collo on two bases to secure third, or they dont goget the hts and rush charge and blink isntead, with double upgrades. And then they're 40 supply behind the Terran in the midgame, because they have no way of pressuring while the Terran sets up his third and merrily expands his infrastructure. Nexus cannon can't attack your third bro. | ||
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BoggieMan
520 Posts
This has nothing to do with protoss not getting anything and medivacs getting booster... I really think this won't solve anything existing "balance issues" for protoss, but will only create new gimicky strategies, and empower some old builds like speed warpprism immortal in pvp and any kind of sentrydrop/drop play in pvz. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:28 Sein wrote: Maybe increasing base speed to 2.75 and keeping the upgrade would be a better start. I don't know if I want to see even more protosses in Proleague. Could also give it the "reaper treatment" and remove the upgrade, but make the base speed somewhere in between the existing speeds. | ||
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