EPTPopularity of LOL, SC2 and BW in Korea - Page 7
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rift
1819 Posts
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OSM.OneManArmy
United States509 Posts
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thirtyapm
521 Posts
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Level10Peon
United States59 Posts
On May 28 2013 08:53 IAMFAPMAN wrote: there "was" a broodwar community outside of korea? get your facts right khaldor, you lost me there. I think his point was that the foreign community for BW as an esport was microscopic compared to the community for SC2 as an esport outside of korea, not that one didn't exist. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
On May 28 2013 04:30 MasterOfPuppets wrote: There have, as a matter of fact, been online tournaments with prize pools for 2v2 games. The EG Master's Cup Team League has in fact featured 2v2s in one of their editions. I'm guessing you haven't watched any of said tournaments, and that you haven't watched very many team games in general. Otherwise you would know that rushes and cheese have always been the status quo. I will go a bit more into detail down below. Cheese and all-ins is all you ever see. Why? Because of fundamental game design flaws, such as negligible defender's advantage coupled with bad map design in that players are often at considerable distance apart. This makes it so that strategies involving both players rushing and attacking only one of the opponents are simply too viable not to exploit, just like many other strategies which were simply too good not to use back in early WoL beta/release. Yeah, just like they always add the standard GSL maps that every tournament uses into the ladder map pool... Oh wait! Do you realise that if the map changed over the last 3 years and the imbalanced rushes have disappeared in 1v1 it's because blizzard did some patches, but more because the mapmakers implemented good features on the map ? And yes there have been some tournaments with 2v2, but they were really really not may (EG master cup is one of the only that pops in my mind). And it's mostly 1v1 screwing around in 2v2 playing with some horrible blizzard maps (btw right now the mappool is nearly decent  ).No problems that you talk of can't be solved by good maps, and to have good maps we pretty much have to have a competitive evironement. I guess if we start to have a 2v2 in proleague, we could see things quite fast (the pro team will pop some crazy all-ins), and solve them. | ||
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Kommander
Philippines4950 Posts
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On May 28 2013 08:53 rift wrote: Ironic that the genre that was birthed by Starcraft has now taken its place. That was warcraft | ||
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hai2u
688 Posts
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havok55
United States276 Posts
You can enjoy a game as an esport without playing it yourself. I own WOL/HOTS, but have minimal desire to ladder. Yet I love watching it as an esport. It's really just like any other sport. How often do sports fans actually go out to play a game of whatever sport they like to watch? Probably never for some. I think PC Bangs were more important in fostering talent and creating the stars we know today. And just being in the PC Bangs was important back when people didn't know what Starcraft was. But today the fanbase is already established. I've gotten friends to watch SC2 games, and the ones who enjoyed it might not go buy the game, but they'll probably watch it again. | ||
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eScaper-tsunami
Canada313 Posts
On May 28 2013 10:37 Kommander wrote: I wonder, hypothetically if LoL existed at the same time as BW, would LoL be the much more popular game in Korea than BW and BW would never have gotten as big as it did? When LoL first came out, they didn't really focus on the competition but more so getting their game accessible to as many people as possible. IMO this is where Riot succeeded and Blizzard failed. When the player base was built up by Riot, the need for competition naturally rose and is most likely what we saw in BW. With popularity and the money flow through microtransactions, Riot can pour the money back into competitions. Blizzard in SC2 decided to take the opposite approach through developing a competitive scene in order to attract viewers/player and so far it has more or less failed. To answer your question, it would be at least as popular as it is now. Would LoL at it's height be more popular than BW at it's height? Probably because it's a team game. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On May 28 2013 11:09 hai2u wrote: team games dominated BW, 2v2 or 3v3 BGH or Fastest Map or whatever, you could relax and have fun with friends and then you had awesome custom games as well. It kept you coming back for more. SC2, all the focus is 1v1 no friends with a dead custom scene. no, not really. People play 1v1 in BW the most. But there are less people with ladder anxiety. Because you can smurf. | ||
mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
On May 27 2013 22:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: As usual I appreciate any sort of insight from you directly from Korea, but if I understand you correctly then as far as I know the information you're basing this on isn't accurate. If the pc bang owners just needed to purchase the full game it wouldn't have been as big of an issue upon the launch of WoL. Usually the games get thousands of hours of playtime and the hourly cost is extremely low in that case. However For WoL Blizzard introduced a set cost per hour played. This set cost per hour is many times more expensive than buying a new game and just using that for years. This has been quoted as the reason for why the Korean pc bangs didn't promote SC2 much at all. If a game is played 3000 hours over the course of three years that costs $600 instead of $50. I completely agree with your explanation of why team games are so successful. People just love to blame others for their mistakes and it is so relaxing and rewarding to do so. The viewing to playing ratio of SC2 still blows any other game out of the water. It's an amazing spectator sport, but sometimes people find it stressful to play. Im confused about what Khaldor said about Starcraft 2 in Pc bangs, because PC bang owners do not have to pay for copies of Starcraft 2. What Blizzard Korea has imposed was: the cost per hour played model as Nazgul stated. As far as I know the average pc bang costs around 90c~$1 per hour and about 22c goes to Blizzard. This isnt just what blizzard is doing, every game that requires monthly subscription fee uses this model. Even free to play game like LoL uses this model because it works best for them. Back in Broodwar, Diablo2 and Warcraft 3 era this was not the case and PC bang owners had to buy copies of the games just like other people did, and that is not the case anymore. Im also not really sure if "I dont want to pay for games!!" norm in korea is why Starcraft 2 didnt meet expectations because if you actually think about it, Diablo 3 was a huge success in South Korea.http://gamezin.co.kr/main/gamenews_detail.php?NO=201200373499 the link basically speculates the number of diablo 3 copies sold in south korea is around 700k ~ 1 million. It also states that the number of hours used in pc bang was 46005471 hours within one month of release (note that this article was written in 20 june 2012. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 28 2013 10:37 Kommander wrote: I wonder, hypothetically if LoL existed at the same time as BW, would LoL be the much more popular game in Korea than BW and BW would never have gotten as big as it did? BW was technically free to play. On May 28 2013 05:25 eScaper-tsunami wrote: Quoted the wrong guy bro: That's not true at all when you watch the pro's play. Let's lay off the generalizations and trying to simplify the games shall we because there's a lot always going on. | ||
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Lunchador
United States776 Posts
On May 28 2013 11:27 Cele wrote: no, not really. People play 1v1 in BW the most. But there are less people with ladder anxiety. Because you can smurf. ........ Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely doubtful about that. How do you know that for a fact? And even after a few years, the Blizzard SC1 ladder stopped holding any meaning when everyone just win-botted it to 9999 points. The BW craze takes me and my friends back to my high school days around 2001-2005. The one "normal" map we always flocked to was 3v3 BGH. None of us (except me) really took an interest in actually getting legit good at the game, even after watching BoxeR's famous SCV rush vs YellOw and getting a little exposure to the Korean professional scene. Teamliquid was a smalllllllllllllllllll small site back then where really only the most hardcore and dedicated of SC1 fans went. TvB games were by far the most popular out of all the melee types. BGH was THE map everyone publicly played, talked about, cried about, etc. Create a '3v3 BGH gogogo' and it fills up in under a minute. Try creating some 'legit' map and... it definitely took a while. And if private servers like iCCuP were even around back in the day, I'm sure they had an even lesser following because of how... third party it was. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 28 2013 12:04 Lunchador wrote: ........ Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely doubtful about that. How do you know that for a fact? And even after a few years, the Blizzard SC1 ladder stopped holding any meaning when everyone just win-botted it to 9999 points. The BW craze takes me and my friends back to my high school days around 2001-2005. The one "normal" map we always flocked to was 3v3 BGH. None of us (except me) really took an interest in actually getting legit good at the game, even after watching BoxeR's famous SCV rush vs YellOw and getting a little exposure to the Korean professional scene. Teamliquid was a smalllllllllllllllllll small site back then where really only the most hardcore and dedicated of SC1 fans went. TvB games were by far the most popular out of all the melee types. BGH was THE map everyone publicly played, talked about, cried about, etc. Create a '3v3 BGH gogogo' and it fills up in under a minute. Try creating some 'legit' map and... it definitely took a while. And if private servers like iCCuP were even around back in the day, I'm sure they had an even lesser following because of how... third party it was. There were so many different communities in BW from the v-techers (lol), UMS community, BGHers, Fastest, Cloudmania, WGTour, PGTour, etc. Smaller compared to SC2 globally? Sure, but our communities certainly were refined when it came to what we played. Look at all the little mini battles we had. Anyone remember the East versus West, Vanilla SC versus BW players, BGHers versus low econers, Nexus Wars Tournaments, etc? Dude, we did everything back then. So much fun! | ||
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S:klogW
Austria657 Posts
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Sumwar
Canada199 Posts
On May 27 2013 22:30 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: As usual I appreciate any sort of insight from you directly from Korea, but if I understand you correctly then as far as I know the information you're basing this on isn't accurate. If the pc bang owners just needed to purchase the full game it wouldn't have been as big of an issue upon the launch of WoL. Usually the games get thousands of hours of playtime and the hourly cost is extremely low in that case. However For WoL Blizzard introduced a set cost per hour played. This set cost per hour is many times more expensive than buying a new game and just using that for years. This has been quoted as the reason for why the Korean pc bangs didn't promote SC2 much at all. If a game is played 3000 hours over the course of three years that costs $600 instead of $50. I completely agree with your explanation of why team games are so successful. People just love to blame others for their mistakes and it is so relaxing and rewarding to do so. The viewing to playing ratio of SC2 still blows any other game out of the water. It's an amazing spectator sport, but sometimes people find it stressful to play. I hear this a lot. Team games aren't stressful and Starcraft is. I find Starcraft relaxing and Dota 2 / League of Legends / any mobs EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING. When I'm behind I'm constantly dying, I get ganked a lot every time I try to get farm and it's frustrating. Maybe I'm in the minority? | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
Team games in sc2 need to have their own tournaments and have a very big scene | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
aeon of strife was first created in starcraft 1 | ||
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