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On May 10 2013 04:15 eviltomahawk wrote:
The Spore change will be a buff to Phoenix-lifting strategies in team games.
I personally would rather see either an acceleration buff or a speed buff for Oracles, but not both at once.
why ? are there phoenix/muta combos ? its only vs bio buff
edit: do you mean lift with phoenix and let spore kill them like roaches ? crazy man xD
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As Terran was getting scared of faster oracles. They are already pretty hard to defend if you don't see it coming. Fast burrow was also interesting but potentially too strong.
Go Blizzard!
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I'm thinking if PvZ lategame needs to be addressed. The swarmhosts turtly style like the ones of roro or the big mutalisk switches like leenock demonstrated are really strong in lategame, and protoss doesn't seem to have an answer to it yet, or there is no answer. But on the other hand, anything else the zerg would make just melts to protoss lategame, and if nerfed can lead to protoss just doing turtle every game for ultimate composition. So I'm not sure what really need to be done to make the lategame more solid for both protoss and zerg.
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On May 10 2013 04:42 Tsubbi wrote:
the burrow change would have been the very first change to zerg in hots before the 10 minute mark, surely it wouldve been too risky
hah, no kidding
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Is spore crawler the bunker of hots?
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On May 10 2013 05:08 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 05:04 RogerChillingworth wrote:
TvZ is still terran favored, i don't care what anyone says. Other match-ups are better--can go either way--and really map dependent, but non-retarded Terrans will still make zerg look silly. stats fail to illustrate the full picture, i'm afraid. agreed, blizzard never cites their stats anyways lol, tvz is at a steady 55% so far in terrans favor which is clearly too much, the burrow change wouldve been at aleast a tiny change that would help in zvt the most so i have no idea why they would revert it
That 55% was pretty much completely due to the WCS qualifiers. Remove them from the stats and it was something like 51%. In other words there simply wasn't enough data for statistical significant conclusions. What most people forget is that the number of games in the data doesn't say alot about the significance if the games are heavily correlated, and that is the case!
Anyway saying that zerg is too weak is kinda funny since zerg is significantly more played in every league above silver than terran. Zerg is most represented race in Code S RO32, RO16 and RO8 (where we are now). Also in the American premier league zerg is most represented. Only in Europe there are more terrans than zerg active in premier league atm.
I have to admit I expected blizzard to just do what they had for the balance map. Good that they did listen to the community and don't want to overdo balance changes when it is looking so well balanced atm. That said I still dislike spore changes, it is just not a neat way.
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The game is still being figured out.
The oracle buff seemed completely unnecessary, and isn't actually promoting the unit in mid-game. It would instead just cement it as a cheese-unit. Glad they withheld that change.
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was wondering what the picture in the OP meant?
now I got it
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On May 10 2013 05:17 Archas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 05:08 Tsubbi wrote:On May 10 2013 05:04 RogerChillingworth wrote:
TvZ is still terran favored, i don't care what anyone says. Other match-ups are better--can go either way--and really map dependent, but non-retarded Terrans will still make zerg look silly. stats fail to illustrate the full picture, i'm afraid. agreed, blizzard never cites their stats anyways lol, tvz is at a steady 55% so far in terrans favor which is clearly too much, the burrow change wouldve been at aleast a tiny change that would help in zvt the most so i have no idea why they would revert it If the ZvT win rate trend continues for another month or two, then perhaps balance is the culprit. Until then, though, I think it's fine to wait things out.
It likely won't as it has already improved (not to mention Zergs winning major tournaments), as any upset you've seen before and even right now is primarily based on shock value from Zerg players needing some unit control after the WoLings era which involved (aside from smart-casted fungal) practically none.
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On May 10 2013 05:26 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 04:42 Tsubbi wrote:
the burrow change would have been the very first change to zerg in hots before the 10 minute mark, surely it wouldve been too risky hah, no kidding
i think its good because for example reapers, medivacs, free siege, widow mines and hellbats had no significant effect on early and midgame terran play as well
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Haha. Ha. ;____; Oh well. I can deal :D
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They... use good reasoning? That's new.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Bizzard doing a great job in Hots so far :D
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aw no 50/50 burrow D;
I wanted to be imba.
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On May 10 2013 04:32 drugsarebad wrote:
They still really should do something with the orcale its a cheese only unit right now which is kinda sad considering the potential revelation has.
So what it's fine if one units is only useful in cheese.
Might i remind you that cheese is delicous and it comes in a myriad of ways.
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On May 10 2013 05:05 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2013 05:04 RogerChillingworth wrote:
TvZ is still terran favored, i don't care what anyone says. Other match-ups are better--can go either way--and really map dependent, but non-retarded Terrans will still make zerg look silly. stats fail to illustrate the full picture, i'm afraid. Good thing Code S is filled with retarded Terrans, then, otherwise zerg would be having issues.
The game is very well balanced at the pro level but at the mere-humans level, mines are pretty silly. Incredibly cost efficient, takes 10 times more effort to counter than to use, and one mistake vs mines can be game ending. I know that balancing the game for the pro level is far more important than other skill levels... but I can't help but wish they didn't introduce a unit like this into the game.
For me in low masters mines just make me want to quit the game. I can't leave my base, I can't ling harrass or go for surrounds, just in case there's a mine there that'll blow up everything for free. I can get mine dropped before I have detection. And even if I know exactly where every mine is, it's still a mess to deal with them... and the only unit that really counters them is broodlords. It's just so frustrating and half the time I just allin against terran now because I'm sick of facing bio/mines and not being able to do anything about it because it takes pro level control to deal with it.
WoL ZvT was zerg-favored for a long time but the infestor nerfs and raven buffs made it close to balanced at the very end... then HotS hits and the matchup changed so much in terran's favor. Reapers, speedvacs, hellbats, and mines are all so good and can be gotten quickly, they can affect every game. Meanwhile SH is bad vs terran, so zerg's new toys are the ultra and viper... which are great, but the early game is so much harder.
I'm disappointed that changes to mines or reapers apparently weren't even discussed... and something potentially useful for zerg (early burrow) was tossed out before giving it a chance. I feel like I should switch races just so I can use units that can deal with mines better.
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Good to hear, as a even as a Protoss player i thought that the oracle buff was unnecesary.
On the other hand, i think that the problem with mutas is related with mutas themselves being too much powerful, and not with the defenses...
Also, mines are okay, but at non progamer level, they are waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much cost efficient and very easy to use, but very hard to fight against. I mean, a single missclick can make you loose all your zerglings or all your probes to a 75/25 unit that only needs to burrow to work. It's a bit silly.
Anyway i think they do a great job balancing the game, no like creating maps xD...
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What exactly is the "spore change"? Can't find it anywhere.
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@Choco
I first thought you were talking about banelings, which pro's are far better at dealing with due to superior micro (and lets face it, you need 10 times more efforct to split against banelings than to use banelings), but then I saw you meant mines, okay. Really mines are just the banelings of terran. Of course there are significant differences between them, but yeah if you fuck up as opponent they deal terrible damage. So always a good idea not to do that.
And why wouldn't you be able to go for ling haras? Send one ling ahead and you notice soon enough if there are widow mines.
@Xupi, a single misclick can make you lose your entire bio army to AOE, or your entire mech army because you sieged up too late (been there, done that). If anything the terran army is probably the most unforgiving one to misclicks: Mech is quite all or nothing, there is no retreat when misclicking. Bio can retreat, but dies incredibly quick to AOE weapons.
So yeah if you do it wrong as zerg you can be quite irritated by widow mines, but don't forget that widow mines also have this habit of blowing up terran troops.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://fiestafarms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/cheese.jpg&imgrefurl=http://fiestafarms.ca/tag/cheese&h=480&w=720&sz=130&tbnid=PppQF8NncmLeiM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&zoom=1&usg=__oxjLNoKD_s5ohtlthsSVS6am_gA=&docid=GzKqEqNC8kThJM&sa=X&ei=TgqMUYCKAsaQ0QHproGYDg&ved=0CFUQ9QEwBQ&dur=994)
