Upcoming Balance Patch - Page 28

On May 13 2013 20:09 Big J wrote:


You don't get 2hydras per muta. You get 2hydras for muta and 4zerglings. Guess which unit is an amazing hydralisk counter... So yeah, you need roaches or banelings to go with your hydras. But if you go banes, your opponent can trade banes for banes+hydras or pick off banes with mutas first and you lose again.

You simply don't grasp the problems that people have against muta/ling in ZvZ (on the current patch, not the announced one).
Burrow your hydras all you want, I'm gonna attack 3bases at once with my zerglings and swoop my hydras in where I need them. You don't have marine+medivac and/or mines which are good against both, the mutalisk and the zergling. And you don't have walls that prevent runbys if you play a slow army. You just get overrun at multiple fronts at once, but your split roach/hydra forces get torn apart by the mutalisk and the zergling alike and sporecrawlers/queens fall to zerglings long before they can really significantly damage mutalisks.
You are getting flooded and outexpanded at once.

On May 14 2013 03:11 Pursuit_ wrote:
In TvZ I tend to win primarily by getting pretty big advantages in the later stages of mid game with heavy drop play (I play M4), most of my losses come from either 1-1 speedroach timings (with or without nydus) which I struggle to hold even when I scout, heavy baneling aggression before mutas doing too much damage or heavy ling / bling / muta mid games with lots of spines / spores for drop defense and 4+ bases before going into hive tech. Current win rate this season is 64% as I've gotten a lot better at holding the weird 10-13 minute aggressive timings and less and less Zerg players seem to be attempting macro play.

On May 10 2013 05:04 RogerChillingworth wrote:
TvZ is still terran favored, i don't care what anyone says. Other match-ups are better--can go either way--and really map dependent, but non-retarded Terrans will still make zerg look silly. stats fail to illustrate the full picture, i'm afraid.

On May 13 2013 22:12 Toadvine wrote:


Yeah, for all the complaining about Skytoss, every time I see PvZ get into a split map situation, it's the Protoss who has to harass and run around sniping bases, because it's impossible to effectively engage a mass Swarm Host defensive position with static defense and corrupters/vipers.

On May 12 2013 16:51 scypio wrote:
I think there are some things getting mixed up in this thread. We can see some true balance complaints like:
"ZvT is almost unwinnable and all the Zergs will disappear from the tourneys, ladder etc". Tournament results and the long list of the zerg players that seem to be doing fine within the current metagame say otherwise.

And than there is another set of complaints that can be summed up with a statement: "I don't like the current meta/gameplay". This is understandable - for example a coinflip is pretty balanced, but it is not a lot of fun to watch (unless it's at Dreamhack).

Let's say little Johnny doesn't like MMM-based TvP and thinks that the right way to play versus Protoss is a 4-port banshee. Pretty soon you would see Johnny posting on TL with the idea of increasing the range, damage and hp on the banshee by 50% to make his goto strategy viable.

This is exactly what the zergies do: my (WoL) strat is not working, other strats(bust) are stupid: blizzard go nerf hellbat, speedvacs and widow mines!

For me saying things like "well, the game has been out for two months, I've played 100 games on the ladder and nothing's gonna change, blizzard fix this!" seems a bit hasty. And the idea of sacrificing balance in favor of a better gameplay is flawed.

On May 14 2013 06:10 ( bush wrote:


Talking about equal skill made me laugh. I guess you didnt watch any games of Wings of Liberty where players like JonnyRecco (no offense) could go head to head with top tier Code S terrans who practice 15 hours a day.

On May 13 2013 21:36 Chocobo wrote:

Why is there an assumption that no one is trying to counter mines? Everyone seems to think zergs are trying to play WoL style and crying when it doesn't work, and refusing to adapt and learn.

HotS has been out for a while now, and the beta's been going longer than that. If months and months of doing your best to try anything and everything to deal with mines leads to no results... how else can you feel? I do not have the skill and control of Life and Stephano and I never will.

Instead of "stop crying and deal with it", why not try discussing the gameplay? Why is it that other strats are dealth with by "make ___ to counter it" or "when the engagement hits, do ___" while the counter to mines is "make this, and some of these, and carefully suicide single units, and make sure you never do that, and..."

That's what the issue is all about. The way that zerg deals with mines is a very challenging micro-intensive process and is very unforgiving of mistakes. This is not in line with how the rest of the game works.


The pro level is most important, but it would be nice if it's a good gameplay experience for non-pros too, wouldn't you agree?


Some kind of change to mines that makes them less difficult for players to deal with, without ruining them at the pro level (which is important). Maybe a longer burrow time, since so many people use it as a siege tank replacement. Maybe have them become visible for 1 second after firing. I dunno, just throwing some ideas out.

On May 14 2013 07:00 Chocobo wrote:
Why is there an assumption that no one is trying to counter mines? Everyone seems to think zergs are trying to play WoL style and crying when it doesn't work, and refusing to adapt and learn.

HotS has been out for a while now, and the beta's been going longer than that. If months and months of doing your best to try anything and everything to deal with mines leads to no results... how else can you feel? I do not have the skill and control of Life and Stephano and I never will.

Instead of "stop crying and deal with it", why not try discussing the gameplay? Why is it that other strats are dealth with by "make ___ to counter it" or "when the engagement hits, do ___" while the counter to mines is "make this, and some of these, and carefully suicide single units, and make sure you never do that, and..."

That's what the issue is all about. The way that zerg deals with mines is a very challenging micro-intensive process and is very unforgiving of mistakes. This is not in line with how the rest of the game works.