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Active: 1330 users

WCS America - Challenger League Qualifier Results - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
153 CommentsPost a Reply
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Satelles
Profile Joined April 2013
1 Post
May 06 2013 18:39 GMT
#81
On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:21 JohnHarr wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:14 selboN wrote:
On May 06 2013 12:50 bittman wrote:
Some totally unexpected stuff in there. Nationalistically sad that PiG didn't make it through. But someone from across the Tasman made it in Tilea. Good to see a SEA & female rep in there.

Female?

puCK is a female.

Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all


Tilea is the female being referred to here...


Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.

Wish there were more Americans, though.

Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.

Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative.


The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.

The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story.


Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right?


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.


Right, because all of the Chinese SC2 players either live in Beijing or can afford to drop hundreds of dollars on a trip with no guaranteed return.
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 18:42:54
May 06 2013 18:41 GMT
#82
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
May 06 2013 18:46 GMT
#83
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.
Dracid
Profile Joined December 2009
United States280 Posts
May 06 2013 18:52 GMT
#84
On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:21 JohnHarr wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:14 selboN wrote:
On May 06 2013 12:50 bittman wrote:
Some totally unexpected stuff in there. Nationalistically sad that PiG didn't make it through. But someone from across the Tasman made it in Tilea. Good to see a SEA & female rep in there.

Female?

puCK is a female.

Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all


Tilea is the female being referred to here...


Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.

Wish there were more Americans, though.

Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.

Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative.


The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.

The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story.


Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right?


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.


The GSL isn't just some one-day event. Flying from Beijing to Seoul costs about $300 USD. So you're either flying back and forth multiple times at $300 USD a trip (which is about about as much as the monthly salary of a new college graduate), or you're living in Korea for an extended amount of time. Not to mention that you're flying there for a chance to qualify into code A, not code S.

Just... no, WCS Korea is not WCS Asia by any stretch.
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
May 06 2013 18:52 GMT
#85
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
azilum_gaming
Profile Joined June 2012
France1 Post
May 06 2013 18:58 GMT
#86
Congratz to xeno and demu , i cant wait to see them performing ! By the way , its nice tro see chinese players , i hope they can get enough exposition
Dracid
Profile Joined December 2009
United States280 Posts
May 06 2013 19:19 GMT
#87
On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
May 06 2013 19:30 GMT
#88
Wow, really surprised so many chinese players made it through.
Does that mean that the worries I had about the chinese starcraft community were for naught? :D
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 19:35:40
May 06 2013 19:33 GMT
#89
On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.


Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills.

It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation.

The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point.

In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.


"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3353 Posts
May 06 2013 19:43 GMT
#90
On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.

Dose anyone really think this is realistic by now?
EU and AM have enough of semi-pros that study and can't be locked down to a single place for months at a time.
And that's even assuming that Blizzard would be willing to foot much greater bill for player living expenses.
By now WCS must maintain current format for at least this year as changing rules season to season would be massively unfair to players that already participate.
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 19:52:43
May 06 2013 19:50 GMT
#91
On May 07 2013 04:43 pmp10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.

Dose anyone really think this is realistic by now?
EU and AM have enough of semi-pros that study and can't be locked down to a single place for months at a time.
And that's even assuming that Blizzard would be willing to foot much greater bill for player living expenses.
By now WCS must maintain current format for at least this year as changing rules season to season would be massively unfair to players that already participate.


I honestly don't know either. Based on the State of the Game interview with a key Blizzard WCS guy (can't remember his name), it seems that Blizzard does want everything to be centralized in each region. They seem eager to copy the GSL format almost exactly.

Blizzard could certainly solve some the financial questions regarding costs by funding team houses in cities designated as e-sports "hubs", like Seoul, (insert European city), (New York / Los Angeles). That would seem to be a workable solution.

P.S. Also, consider that living expenses for team-houses would be far less than the cost of constant intra-regional air travel, hotel stays for weeks etc. etc.
"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 20:15:37
May 06 2013 20:00 GMT
#92
Waxangel made it
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Dracid
Profile Joined December 2009
United States280 Posts
May 06 2013 20:05 GMT
#93
On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.


Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills.

It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation.

The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point.

In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.


Are you, or are you not, implying that the Chinese should compete in WCS KR? That's the crux of it here. No, there's nothing "stopping" the Chinese from competing in Korea, just like there's nothing "stopping" any American or European pro-gamer from competing there (outside of common sense).

Because when you equate the Chinese to the Koreans who compete in WCS AM, I get the impression that you think they should compete in WCS KR. The problem with this though, is that they're not Koreans, and expecting them to move to Korea to compete in code A is even more ridiculous than expecting west coast players to move to the east coast in order to participate in WCS AM.

So either you're implying that it's reasonable to expect the Chinese to compete in WCS KR, which I think counts as xenophobic rhetoric, or you're just pointing out that the Chinese, like everybody else in the world, has the option to compete in WCS KR, which is basically saying nothing.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18093 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 20:15:59
May 06 2013 20:14 GMT
#94
On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:21 JohnHarr wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:14 selboN wrote:
On May 06 2013 12:50 bittman wrote:
Some totally unexpected stuff in there. Nationalistically sad that PiG didn't make it through. But someone from across the Tasman made it in Tilea. Good to see a SEA & female rep in there.

Female?

puCK is a female.

Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all


Tilea is the female being referred to here...


Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.

Wish there were more Americans, though.

Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.

Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative.


The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.

The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story.


Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right?


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.


I really really REALLY hope you're a troll.

1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.

2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas.

3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end).
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 20:30:46
May 06 2013 20:23 GMT
#95
On May 07 2013 05:05 Dracid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.


Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills.

It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation.

The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point.

In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.


Are you, or are you not, implying that the Chinese should compete in WCS KR? That's the crux of it here. No, there's nothing "stopping" the Chinese from competing in Korea, just like there's nothing "stopping" any American or European pro-gamer from competing there (outside of common sense).

Because when you equate the Chinese to the Koreans who compete in WCS AM, I get the impression that you think they should compete in WCS KR. The problem with this though, is that they're not Koreans, and expecting them to move to Korea to compete in code A is even more ridiculous than expecting west coast players to move to the east coast in order to participate in WCS AM.

So either you're implying that it's reasonable to expect the Chinese to compete in WCS KR, which I think counts as xenophobic rhetoric, or you're just pointing out that the Chinese, like everybody else in the world, has the option to compete in WCS KR, which is basically saying nothing.


I don't know how I can possibly elaborate any further on my point than I already have in the previous post(s). However, I will rehash since you seem open to the idea that you misunderstood.

I am not "implying" anything. I am not stating that anyone "should do" anything. I am very straight-forward with my thoughts. I am criticizing the pity campaign that currently surrounds the Chinese players (most likely propagated by fans). I'm addressing the ridiculous falsehood that Chinese players "have no choice but to compete in WCS America".

In my posts on the subject I've made the following assertions:

-It is not true that Chinese players have no choice but to compete in WCS America.

-It is not unreasonable for Chinese players to travel/live in Seoul in team-houses and compete in GSL.

-It is easier and more lucrative for Chinese players to achieve results and prize winnings by competing in foreign tournaments, including WCS America that have online qualifiers. This is why the Chinese are competing in WCS America, not because they were "given no alternative".

-It is not true that Chinese players were locked out of playing in the GSL.


Also, again you are on very weak/pathetic ground accusing me of racism for "daring" to suggest that it is not unreasonable for CN players to live in team-house in Seoul and play in GSL, their literal next door neighbor.


P.S. Again, no one is blaming the Chinese, Koreans, or anyone for playing in the online qualifiers for WCS. If I were a CN player, I would do the same.



"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 06 2013 20:29 GMT
#96
On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:21 JohnHarr wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:14 selboN wrote:
[quote]
Female?

puCK is a female.

Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all


Tilea is the female being referred to here...


Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.

Wish there were more Americans, though.

Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.

Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative.


The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.

The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story.


Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right?


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.


I really really REALLY hope you're a troll.

1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.

2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas.

3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end).


My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind?

The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SCST
Profile Joined November 2011
Mexico1609 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 20:34:49
May 06 2013 20:33 GMT
#97
On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
On May 06 2013 15:21 JohnHarr wrote:
[quote]
puCK is a female.

Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all


Tilea is the female being referred to here...


Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.

Wish there were more Americans, though.

Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.

Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative.


The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.

The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story.


Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right?


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.


I really really REALLY hope you're a troll.

1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.

2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas.

3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end).


My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind?

The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot.


Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete.





"The weak cannot forgive. Forgiveness is an attribute of the strong." - Gandhi
Dracid
Profile Joined December 2009
United States280 Posts
May 06 2013 20:39 GMT
#98
On May 07 2013 05:23 SCST wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 05:05 Dracid wrote:
On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:
On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.


Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills.

It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation.

The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point.

In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.


Are you, or are you not, implying that the Chinese should compete in WCS KR? That's the crux of it here. No, there's nothing "stopping" the Chinese from competing in Korea, just like there's nothing "stopping" any American or European pro-gamer from competing there (outside of common sense).

Because when you equate the Chinese to the Koreans who compete in WCS AM, I get the impression that you think they should compete in WCS KR. The problem with this though, is that they're not Koreans, and expecting them to move to Korea to compete in code A is even more ridiculous than expecting west coast players to move to the east coast in order to participate in WCS AM.

So either you're implying that it's reasonable to expect the Chinese to compete in WCS KR, which I think counts as xenophobic rhetoric, or you're just pointing out that the Chinese, like everybody else in the world, has the option to compete in WCS KR, which is basically saying nothing.


I don't know how I can possibly elaborate any further on my point than I already have in the previous post(s). However, I will rehash since you seem open to the idea that you misunderstood.

I am not "implying" anything. I am not stating that anyone "should do" anything. I am very straight-forward with my thoughts. I am criticizing the pity campaign that currently surrounds the Chinese players (most likely propagated by fans). I'm addressing the ridiculous falsehood that Chinese players "have no choice but to compete in WCS America".

In my posts on the subject I've made the following assertions:

-It is not true that Chinese players have no choice but to compete in WCS America.

-It is not unreasonable for Chinese players to travel/live in Seoul in team-houses and compete in GSL.

-It is easier and more lucrative for Chinese players to achieve results and prize winnings by competing in foreign tournaments, including WCS America. This is why the Chinese are competing in WCS America, not because they were "given no alternative".

-It is not true that Chinese players were locked out of playing in the GSL.


Also, again you are on very weak/pathetic ground accusing me of racism for "daring" to suggest that it is not unreasonable for CN players to live in team-house in Seoul and play in GSL, their literal next door neighbor.


So you don't have a real point do you? Chinese don't "have" to compete WCS AM, they don't "have" to compete in WCS at all. This all goes without saying, who would argue otherwise? What people have been saying is that in the absence of an WCS China/Asia event, then by any reasonable metric WCS AM would be their region, same as for SEA, hence why MLG should be more accommodating.

That you insist that it is reasonable to expect Chinese players to attempt WCS KR instead of WCS AM either betrays your intentions or your ignorance. Do you have any idea how much the average Chinese person makes? It's about as financially viable for the average American pro-gamer to attempt their luck in Korea as it is for the average Chinese player. Do you really think it's reasonable to expect an American pro-gamer to fly to Korea as well? It's great if they're willing to make the attempt, but for most people it's simply not a good decision.
Cereb
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark3388 Posts
May 06 2013 20:41 GMT
#99
Nice! I love seeing Koreans lose ^_^

Cool to see Chinese players doing well, too!!
"Until the very very top in almost anything, all that matters is how much work you put in. The only problem is most people can't work hard even at things they do enjoy, much less things they don't have a real passion for. -Greg "IdrA" Fields
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33457 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-06 20:44:43
May 06 2013 20:43 GMT
#100
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation

fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
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