WCS America - Challenger League Qualifier Results - Page 5

On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.

On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.

No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.


Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline.

On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.

On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:

The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had.

On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:


1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention.

2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before.

3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM.

Hope you enjoy the formatting.

On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:


A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point?

You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A.

There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous.

On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:
In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.

On May 07 2013 04:43 pmp10 wrote:

Dose anyone really think this is realistic by now?
EU and AM have enough of semi-pros that study and can't be locked down to a single place for months at a time.
And that's even assuming that Blizzard would be willing to foot much greater bill for player living expenses.
By now WCS must maintain current format for at least this year as changing rules season to season would be massively unfair to players that already participate.

On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:


Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills.

It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation.

The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point.

In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul.

On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:


Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap .

Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league.

Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice.

On May 07 2013 05:05 Dracid wrote:


Are you, or are you not, implying that the Chinese should compete in WCS KR? That's the crux of it here. No, there's nothing "stopping" the Chinese from competing in Korea, just like there's nothing "stopping" any American or European pro-gamer from competing there (outside of common sense).

Because when you equate the Chinese to the Koreans who compete in WCS AM, I get the impression that you think they should compete in WCS KR. The problem with this though, is that they're not Koreans, and expecting them to move to Korea to compete in code A is even more ridiculous than expecting west coast players to move to the east coast in order to participate in WCS AM.

So either you're implying that it's reasonable to expect the Chinese to compete in WCS KR, which I think counts as xenophobic rhetoric, or you're just pointing out that the Chinese, like everybody else in the world, has the option to compete in WCS KR, which is basically saying nothing.

On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:


I really really REALLY hope you're a troll.

1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.

2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas.

3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end).

On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:


My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind?

The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot.

On May 07 2013 05:23 SCST wrote:


I don't know how I can possibly elaborate any further on my point than I already have in the previous post(s). However, I will rehash since you seem open to the idea that you misunderstood.

I am not "implying" anything. I am not stating that anyone "should do" anything. I am very straight-forward with my thoughts. I am criticizing the pity campaign that currently surrounds the Chinese players (most likely propagated by fans). I'm addressing the ridiculous falsehood that Chinese players "have no choice but to compete in WCS America".

In my posts on the subject I've made the following assertions:

-It is not true that Chinese players have no choice but to compete in WCS America.

-It is not unreasonable for Chinese players to travel/live in Seoul in team-houses and compete in GSL.

-It is easier and more lucrative for Chinese players to achieve results and prize winnings by competing in foreign tournaments, including WCS America. This is why the Chinese are competing in WCS America, not because they were "given no alternative".

-It is not true that Chinese players were locked out of playing in the GSL.


Also, again you are on very weak/pathetic ground accusing me of racism for "daring" to suggest that it is not unreasonable for CN players to live in team-house in Seoul and play in GSL, their literal next door neighbor.