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On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
[quote]
Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all Tilea is the female being referred to here... Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results. Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete.
$300 vs $1600 may not be that similar in cost.
But then wages in China and the US aren't that similar either, so suddenly 5x the cost for a flight...8x GDP per capita.
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On May 07 2013 05:39 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:23 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:05 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 04:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 04:19 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 03:52 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 03:46 grs wrote:On May 07 2013 03:41 SCST wrote:
Obviously facts are just not getting through here. There are estimated to be 1 million Chinese immigrants in South Korea. It is not difficult for Chinese players to travel and or live in Seoul to play SC2 in GSL. They choose not to do this because they don't feel confident that they will be able to win prize money with the intense competition. They are choosing to play in the America WCS because the chances of winning prize money (due to a region-lock loophole allowing partial online play) is much higher.
No, the Chinese players were not "locked out" of KR Code S as is being suggested above, they simply didn't bother to compete in GSL (or if they did, they failed to qualify for Code S). Incredible to see how many people are saying/implying that the Chinese players were "forced" to play in WCS America.
Somehow I doubt these same people are going to protest or make excuses for Canadians or South Americans who will be required to travel for offline play when/if WCS follows through with their original intentions to create a true region-lock by requiring everything to be offline. The formating of you post is very helpful in getting your point accros; sadly, you don't have one. There is no reasonably practical way to compete in Code S for them. Blizzard deceided not to region lock the tournament, so most of them picked the best solution, which in AM. Whether you like Blizzard's deceision or not, there is no reason to blame it on the Chinese players. They have been treated badly enough by MLG (probably not intentionally but still) and there is zero reason to blame them for qualifying under the conditions they had. 1.Blizzard attempted to do the best they could to region-lock the tournament, according to blizzard officials. This result was not their original intention. 2. Competing locally in GSL is not unreasonable for Chinese players, as it is not as difficult as you are implying to live/travel to Seoul from China . Also, Chinese have competed in the GSL before. 3. I'm not blaming the Chinese at all. At what point have I slandered or attacked the Chinese? I'm calling out people like you for making excuses / sob stories about how the Chinese could only compete in WCS AM. Hope you enjoy the formatting. A number of Americans and Europeans have also competed in the GSL before as well, what's your point? You are blaming the Chinese, because you're saying that they should choose WCS KR over AM, when there's no good reason for them to do so. They choose to compete in AM because China -> EU has crippling lag, and because China -> KR requires you to live in Korea for an extended amount of time assuming you make it past the qualifiers just to get into code A. There is nothing reasonable about expecting somebody to pay travel and lodging expenses for an attempt to compete in a competition for a code A slot that's also 10x harder than one you could attempt from the comforts of your home for a code S slot. Be mad at Blizzard if you like for how they organized things, but expecting the Chinese to compete in WCS KR because "it's basically WCS Asia" is nothing short of ridiculous. Exactly. A number of American's, Chinese and Europeans have competed in the GSL and continue to compete, living in team-houses. They know that there is stiff competition, and that their chances are not good to get into Code S. But they still try and continue to improve their skills. It's pathetic that you attempt to discredit my post/thoughts as anti-Chinese rhetoric rather than just countering point-for-point. This is a cheap debate tactic that shows that you're either emotionally attached to this issue or that you are standing on weak ground. I have not blamed the Chinese in the slightest for their choice of going for the easier prize money, just as I have not blamed the Koreans, or even Foreigners at times, for doing the exact same thing. I have never said that they "should" compete in WCS KR given the current situation. The entire point of my posting is to counter the constant whining/pity campaign that people are propogating on here regarding the Chinese players. It is a choice for them to play in WCS America. They were not forced into it. There is no sob-story here. Chinese players could go to Team-houses in Seoul, they could create their own team-house (there are certainly enough CN players), and they could travel to GSL as it is not far. They are choosing, like many Koreans, to play in WCS America for the easier prize money. That is my point. In addition, it appears that Blizzard is going to attempt to implement an offline-requirement similar to GSL for next season. If this is the case, what will the Chinese do then? Just give up? Somehow I think we'll be seeing a Chinese team-house in Seoul. Are you, or are you not, implying that the Chinese should compete in WCS KR? That's the crux of it here. No, there's nothing "stopping" the Chinese from competing in Korea, just like there's nothing "stopping" any American or European pro-gamer from competing there (outside of common sense). Because when you equate the Chinese to the Koreans who compete in WCS AM, I get the impression that you think they should compete in WCS KR. The problem with this though, is that they're not Koreans, and expecting them to move to Korea to compete in code A is even more ridiculous than expecting west coast players to move to the east coast in order to participate in WCS AM. So either you're implying that it's reasonable to expect the Chinese to compete in WCS KR, which I think counts as xenophobic rhetoric, or you're just pointing out that the Chinese, like everybody else in the world, has the option to compete in WCS KR, which is basically saying nothing. I don't know how I can possibly elaborate any further on my point than I already have in the previous post(s). However, I will rehash since you seem open to the idea that you misunderstood. I am not "implying" anything. I am not stating that anyone "should do" anything. I am very straight-forward with my thoughts. I am criticizing the pity campaign that currently surrounds the Chinese players (most likely propagated by fans). I'm addressing the ridiculous falsehood that Chinese players "have no choice but to compete in WCS America". In my posts on the subject I've made the following assertions: -It is not true that Chinese players have no choice but to compete in WCS America. -It is not unreasonable for Chinese players to travel/live in Seoul in team-houses and compete in GSL. -It is easier and more lucrative for Chinese players to achieve results and prize winnings by competing in foreign tournaments, including WCS America. This is why the Chinese are competing in WCS America, not because they were "given no alternative". -It is not true that Chinese players were locked out of playing in the GSL. Also, again you are on very weak/pathetic ground accusing me of racism for "daring" to suggest that it is not unreasonable for CN players to live in team-house in Seoul and play in GSL, their literal next door neighbor. So you don't have a real point do you? Chinese don't "have" to compete WCS AM, they don't "have" to compete in WCS at all. This all goes without saying, who would argue otherwise? What people have been saying is that in the absence of an WCS China/Asia event, then by any reasonable metric WCS AM would be their region, same as for SEA, hence why MLG should be more accommodating. That you insist that it is reasonable to expect Chinese players to attempt WCS KR instead of WCS AM either betrays your intentions or your ignorance. Do you have any idea how much the average Chinese person makes? It's about as financially viable for the average American pro-gamer to attempt their luck in Korea as it is for the average Chinese player. Do you really think it's reasonable to expect an American pro-gamer to fly to Korea as well? It's great if they're willing to make the attempt, but for most people it's simply not a good decision.
I've stated my point in bold font now several times. The fact that you continually choose to ignore it and state "you have no point" must be a troll.
This has almost nothing to do with the Chinese, but rather the fans and forum-posters who are constantly bitching that the Chinese were forced into WCS America due to being unable to play in KR, and that as such they should be treated in such-and-such a way. This is an obvious falsehood. No one put a gun to their head and said "you have to play WCS America", it is simply a better opportunity for the Chinese financially. Period.
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On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
[quote]
Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all Tilea is the female being referred to here... Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results. Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete.
Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks.
The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul.
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On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:On May 06 2013 15:22 SCWind wrote:
[quote]
Last I heard puck said he/she wasn't 100% certain if he/she wanted to transition to female any more. So it's probably best not to talk about it at all Tilea is the female being referred to here... Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results. Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete.
Traveling 1000K is pretty far, I don't really care how you get there.
Also, I think you under estimate how hard it is to move to another country, even for 6 months. You can name all the prices for flights you want, they are still moving to another country. As someone who has moved several times in his life, moving to another city is a pain in the ass and cost a lot of money. Moving to another country is an under taking I couldn't even imagine and the cost would be out of this world. I don’t even like moving my computer from room to room, let alone shipping it over an ocean, and forget the rest of my stuff. Most of these players young, don’t speak the language(making a challenge to get an apartment or living space, let alone get around). So I don’t’ really agree with your concept that it is easier for a Chinese player to compete in Korea than in WSC NA.
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On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere.
I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea?
People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true.
Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese.
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On May 07 2013 05:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
[quote]
Tilea is the female being referred to here...
Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results. Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Traveling 1000K is pretty far, I don't really care how you get there. ..... So I don’t’ really agree with your concept that it is easier for a Chinese player to compete in Korea than in WSC NA.
Good lord people need to read the posts. I never said it was easier for Chinese players to compete in GSL than WCS America. I've stated exactly the opposite.
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On May 07 2013 05:50 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere. I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea? People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true. Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese.
All right, this argument has become fluid and amorphous, ever shifting until it can never be proven wrong or fail under the weight of facts and logic. Its sole purpose is to argue for the sake of doing so, while never yielding to the weight its opponents heap on it. I suggest we all move along and leave the argument blob to itself.
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On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:On May 06 2013 15:36 [Erasmus] wrote:
[quote]
Tilea is the female being referred to here...
Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results. Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul.
I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler.
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On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
[quote]
Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.
Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler.
Its ok folks, he is a world traveler and understands how this works. A 26 hour trip by boat is totally reasonable and something we all can do to win $300 bucks. I mean, to break even, you need to walk across the land of Korea, because bus fare is going to break the bank. But totally reasonable to compete in code A. The world traveler has spoken.
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Taeja leaving GSL disappoints me, but hopefully the level of play between the leagues will even out. Goooo America
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On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
[quote]
Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.
Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler.
So explain how it's reasonable to expect somebody to live in a foreign country for an extended amount of time in order to compete for a tournament.
Also, there is no ferry from Beijing to Seoul. Beijing isn't even on the coast. You've taken a ferry that doesn't even exist, I don't think it's worth responding to you anymore.
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On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:On May 06 2013 19:58 Ribbon wrote:
[quote]
Oh hey, I didn't know about her. Nice to see more female players getting results.
Wish there were more Americans, though. Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level. Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler.
Nobody says, that they are actually forced to play WCS AM for real. When they say forced they mean all the things and circumstances stated on various posts before make it nearly impossible to play WCS KR economic and management wise. This is what they mean when they say "chinese players are forced to play WCS AM". What you do is just talking around the definition of "forced" which is kinda pointless.
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On May 07 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:50 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere. I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea? People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true. Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese. All right, this argument has become fluid and amorphous, ever shifting until it can never be proven wrong or fail under the weight of facts and logic. Its sole purpose is to argue for the sake of doing so, while never yielding to the weight its opponents heap on it. I suggest we all move along and leave the argument blob to itself.
No, it boils down to a simple argument.
1. Is it reasonable for CN players to play in WCS KR vs WCS America?
2. If it is reasonable for CN players to play in KR WCS, why are people whining about the Chinese having lag, etc and overall trying to make them out as victims when they have a choice as to which WCS to play in.
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On May 07 2013 06:06 Dracid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.
Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler. So explain how it's reasonable to expect somebody to live in a foreign country for an extended amount of time in order to compete for a tournament. Also, there is no ferry from Beijing to Seoul. Beijing isn't even on the coast. You've taken a ferry that doesn't even exist, I don't think it's worth responding to you anymore.
Must resist urge to make Photoshop movie poster of mythical ferry boat from Beijing to Seoul, carrying world travelers and Chinese SC2 players off to adventure in the land of Korea. A feel good story for the summer, brought you by Dreamworks.
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On May 07 2013 06:07 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:50 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere. I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea? People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true. Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese. All right, this argument has become fluid and amorphous, ever shifting until it can never be proven wrong or fail under the weight of facts and logic. Its sole purpose is to argue for the sake of doing so, while never yielding to the weight its opponents heap on it. I suggest we all move along and leave the argument blob to itself. No, it boils down to a simple argument. 1. Is it reasonable for CN players to play in WCS KR vs WCS America?
No.
2. If it is reasonable for CN players to play in KR WCS, why are people whining about the Chinese having lag, etc and overall trying to make them out as victims when they have a choice as to which WCS to play in.
Irrelevant due to 1.
End of discussion.
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On May 07 2013 06:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 06:06 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:
[quote]
The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China.
The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler. So explain how it's reasonable to expect somebody to live in a foreign country for an extended amount of time in order to compete for a tournament. Also, there is no ferry from Beijing to Seoul. Beijing isn't even on the coast. You've taken a ferry that doesn't even exist, I don't think it's worth responding to you anymore. Must resist urge to make Photoshop movie poster of mythical ferry boat from Beijing to Seoul, carrying world travelers and Chinese SC2 players off to adventure in the land of Korea. A feel good story for the summer, brought you by Dreamworks.
Ferry information Beijing - Seoul (yes there is a short train ride from the ports)
Air-conditioned high-speed trains link Beijing and Tianjin frequently, taking just 30 minutes, see details here. However, the port is actually at Tanggu, some 50 km east of Tianjin itself, so it's better to take a direct train from Beijing South to Tanggu, journey time 55 minutes, with trains every hour or two. Beijing to Tanggu costs 92 RMB soft seat, 78 RMB hard seat. You can check train times at www.chinatravelguide.com. Bus 102 runs from Tanggu station to the ferry terminal, journey time 50 minutes.
Ferries run by Jinchon Ferry sail from Tanggu International Ferry Terminal (50 km east of Tianjin) to Incheon twice a week, taking 25 hours. Departure from Tanggu is at 11:00 on Thursdays & Sundays, arriving Incheon at 14:00 next day. In the other direction, the ferry sails from Incheon at 13:00 on Tuesdays arriving Tanggu 14:00 Wednesdays and at 19:00 on Fridays arriving Tanggu 20:00 Saturdays. For sailing dates and times, see http://byferryfrom2japan.com/en/korea-china or http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/GK/GK_EN_2_3_2.jsp. The ferry operator's own site (www.jinchon.cn) is only in Chinese or Korean. The ferry fare in economy class is 888 RMB + 60 RMB tax. You should arrive at the ferry terminal 2-3 hours before sailing time.
Trains link Incheon and Seoul frequently, 39 km, journey time 58 minutes.
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On May 07 2013 06:07 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:50 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere. I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea? People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true. Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese. All right, this argument has become fluid and amorphous, ever shifting until it can never be proven wrong or fail under the weight of facts and logic. Its sole purpose is to argue for the sake of doing so, while never yielding to the weight its opponents heap on it. I suggest we all move along and leave the argument blob to itself. No, it boils down to a simple argument. 1. Is it reasonable for CN players to play in WCS KR vs WCS America? 2. If it is reasonable for CN players to play in KR WCS, why are people whining about the Chinese having lag, etc and overall trying to make them out as victims when they have a choice as to which WCS to play in.
Who is complaining about Chinese players having lag? All notable Chinese players in WCS AM either qualified or got knocked out by another Chinese player, what's there even to complain about? Xigua had to deal with lag, but that's his own fault for attempting WCS EU instead of WCS AM, and he's apparently learned his lesson and will be trying for WCS AM in season 2.
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On May 07 2013 06:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 06:07 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:55 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:50 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:43 Waxangel wrote:
you're fucking insane if you think having to compete in Korea in person is not a huuuuuuuuuuuge barrier against chinese participation
fuck, if MLG said you had to play WCS America live in NYC from the qualifiers on up, all USA players west of Pennsylvania would be screaming bloody murder, not to mention everyone else in the fucking hemisphere. I agree it's a big barrier. However, is it truly unreasonable to have a CN team-house in South Korea? Or for CN players to live in team-houses in South Korea? People are stating that it is "impossible" or "so difficult to be nearly impossible" for CN players to play in any WCS other than America. This is obviously not true. Again, if I were a CN player I also would choose to better/more lucrative opportunity. No one is blaming the Chinese. All right, this argument has become fluid and amorphous, ever shifting until it can never be proven wrong or fail under the weight of facts and logic. Its sole purpose is to argue for the sake of doing so, while never yielding to the weight its opponents heap on it. I suggest we all move along and leave the argument blob to itself. No, it boils down to a simple argument. 1. Is it reasonable for CN players to play in WCS KR vs WCS America? No. Show nested quote +
2. If it is reasonable for CN players to play in KR WCS, why are people whining about the Chinese having lag, etc and overall trying to make them out as victims when they have a choice as to which WCS to play in.
Irrelevant due to 1. End of discussion.
I disagree with you, hence the argument. I think it's definitely worse, but not unreasonable for CN players to play in a team-house in the GSL. Either way, I've enjoyed discussing it.
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On May 07 2013 06:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:On May 07 2013 02:31 SCST wrote:On May 06 2013 23:31 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
Also a transgender. Are there any actual female players in the pro scene (I guess Eve?) I am not judging, it just strikes me as really surprising that as e-Sports slowly gains more popularity, there are still no girl gamers at the top level.
Oh, and it's not just 5 Americans (which in and of itself is a success for America, imho), it is only 4 Koreans. Players like Zenio and JYP got housted. And anybody saying Chinese should not be in the WCS AM, until there is a WCS Asia (as opposed to a WCS Korea), they have no real alternative. The biggest falsehood perpetrated on these forums . . . "Chinese players just have no choice, they are helpless and must compete in America's regional WCS" . . . this is pure propaganda. I say propaganda because it's so utterly obvious that WCS Korea is the equivalent of WCS Asia at this time. Korea is next door to China. Do we need geography lessons? Korea is literally next door to China. The reason the Chinese are competing in the America WCS is not because they "have no choice", it's because they want to, so that they can acquire prize money easier than competing in their local region. It's a loophole, plain and simple. Stop defending it like it's some freaking sob story. Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler. Its ok folks, he is a world traveler and understands how this works. A 26 hour trip by boat is totally reasonable and something we all can do to win $300 bucks. I mean, to break even, you need to walk across the land of Korea, because bus fare is going to break the bank. But totally reasonable to compete in code A. The world traveler has spoken.
you do realize that there are/were a couple years ago starcraft players in America that spent more money and time just getting to a tournament in America for no gareenteed money either right?
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On May 07 2013 06:16 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2013 06:11 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 06:06 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:57 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:49 Dracid wrote:On May 07 2013 05:33 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:On May 07 2013 05:14 Acrofales wrote:On May 07 2013 03:16 SCST wrote:On May 07 2013 02:54 Rostam wrote:
[quote]
Great point. I'm sure their choice has nothing to do with the fact that WCS KR is completely offline and would require them to live in a different country for a long period of time to take part. Korea and China are basically the same place, right? Korea and China are extremely close geographically. It's the equivalent of saying that "Canadian's living in Vancouver can't compete at a Seattle tournament (United States) because it's just too difficult for them due to offline requirements, so they must compete in a Korean tournament which is partially online". Again you don't understand how close in proximity the two countries are. It is possible to take a ferry boat from Beijing to mainland South Korea. Flights are also cheap. Relative to the cost of coming to the America's it is extremely cheap . Cost of flight to the America's from mainland china is roughly $1,400 - $1,800 for 2 one-way tickets if you're lucky. This doesn't include the incredible hassle of getting a U.S. visa ($200) which may be denied for any reason under the sun. Yes, it is easier to compete in the offline Korean WCS than to come to the United States once/if they are in premier league. Once again, Chinese are not being pigeonholed into playing America WCS. They are simply taking advantage of a loophole in the WCS system that was originally intended to be a region-lock but failed. I'm not criticizing Chinese players for doing this, but I am criticizing forum-posters for pretending like they were "forced" into this choice. I really really REALLY hope you're a troll. 1. Beijing or Shanghai (the two largest cities that can arguably be said to be "near" to Seoul are still ~1000 km away. So actually it's asking someone from Vancouver to fly to anywhere ranging from San Francisco (~1000 km away) to Miami (~ the distance for people in southern China) for a tournament.2. The "tremendous hassle for a US visa" is about the same as the "tremendous hassle for a SK visa". It's not as if SK hands visas out to chinese for christmas. 3. You have to move to SK just to compete in the Code A qualifiers. WCS AM and EU are all-online until Premier league Ro8, which is a weekend, meaning you can live at home and fly out to the states for a weekend, IF you are extremely successful. SK you basically have to move there if you want a chance at even competing. You live in your own little fantasy lalaland if you think moving to a different country is in any way easier (let alone cheaper) than traveling to the US for a week(end). My real question is, after the Chinese player takes the reported "ferry" from China to Korea, how does he get to Seoul. Does he walk like a pilgrim, with his mouse, keyboard and B.Net authenticator on his back, for the remained of his 1000 K trip? Does he show up to the GOM studio like some vagabond, reciting builds under his breath and playing SC2 in his mind? The more I think about it, the more like the concept of this fictional Chinese SC2 player traveling to Seoul by foot. Seems clear that this was taken out of context. It is, relative to other areas of the world like the Americas, very reasonable to travel from China to SK and live in a team-house for several months to compete in GSL. Unless you think as one poster mentioned, $300 plane ticket vs ~$1,600 is similar in cost. Or as an even cheaper option, taking the ferry and train and staying for a while to compete. Except for that $1600 plane ticket you're already in the Ro16 which is a guaranteed $2000 plus a good chance to make much more, whereas that $300 plane ticket guarantees that if you win you get to be in code A and have to pay for living expenses in a foreign country for several weeks. The ferry isn't a viable option either. It costs over $100 USD for a one-way 26 hour trip which neither starts in Beijing nor ends in Seoul. I agree that it's a much better financial opportunity to play in WCS America rather than Korea, I have never stated otherwise. I have stated however that is not "unreasonable" to play on KR, and that it is a conscious choice to play in WCS America vs KR and not forced. And people take the ferry all the time from Beijing to Seoul, I've done it myself. It not as difficult as you make it sound, though it is a long trip. I also am a world traveler. So explain how it's reasonable to expect somebody to live in a foreign country for an extended amount of time in order to compete for a tournament. Also, there is no ferry from Beijing to Seoul. Beijing isn't even on the coast. You've taken a ferry that doesn't even exist, I don't think it's worth responding to you anymore. Must resist urge to make Photoshop movie poster of mythical ferry boat from Beijing to Seoul, carrying world travelers and Chinese SC2 players off to adventure in the land of Korea. A feel good story for the summer, brought you by Dreamworks. Ferry information Beijing - Seoul (yes there is a short train ride from the ports) Air-conditioned high-speed trains link Beijing and Tianjin frequently, taking just 30 minutes, see details here. However, the port is actually at Tanggu, some 50 km east of Tianjin itself, so it's better to take a direct train from Beijing South to Tanggu, journey time 55 minutes, with trains every hour or two. Beijing to Tanggu costs 92 RMB soft seat, 78 RMB hard seat. You can check train times at www.chinatravelguide.com. Bus 102 runs from Tanggu station to the ferry terminal, journey time 50 minutes. Ferries run by Jinchon Ferry sail from Tanggu International Ferry Terminal (50 km east of Tianjin) to Incheon twice a week, taking 25 hours. Departure from Tanggu is at 11:00 on Thursdays & Sundays, arriving Incheon at 14:00 next day. In the other direction, the ferry sails from Incheon at 13:00 on Tuesdays arriving Tanggu 14:00 Wednesdays and at 19:00 on Fridays arriving Tanggu 20:00 Saturdays. For sailing dates and times, see http://byferryfrom2japan.com/en/korea-china or http://visitkorea.or.kr/ena/GK/GK_EN_2_3_2.jsp. The ferry operator's own site (www.jinchon.cn) is only in Chinese or Korean. The ferry fare in economy class is 888 RMB + 60 RMB tax. You should arrive at the ferry terminal 2-3 hours before sailing time. Trains link Incheon and Seoul frequently, 39 km, journey time 58 minutes.
It is really hard to tell if you are the world traveler to claim to be, or someone who is utilizing the power of google and just layering on more detailed information as the discussion goes on.
Either way, the discussion is about semantics. People say Chinese are forced to compete in the WSC US because they have so few options. You say it is the best decision for them, but they are not forced because they could live in Korea, even though you freely admit it is not the best decision for them. Everyone agrees on the points, but disagrees on the verbiage.
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EPT
