EPTEven if your assumption that TotalBiscuit does similar things to Richard Lewis is true, wouldn't that technically be hypocracy, and not irony? English majors help me out here.
Richard Lewis on root gaming house. - Page 7
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Waxangel
United States33711 Posts
Even if your assumption that TotalBiscuit does similar things to Richard Lewis is true, wouldn't that technically be hypocracy, and not irony? English majors help me out here. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
I agree that its basically a charity case, I disagree though that anything is wrong with that. If people want to support a Root gaming house, great Where i now turn to an idiot some would say because im going to be too harsh is that, Im not going to pretend like this Teamhouse is a good idea by what catz is trying to do, which is to support a team house off charity. What happens if the charity river runs dry and bills have to be paid? We have no idea who/whom are going to be living in the team house, and what the team house is actually going to do for said players.. So far i have heard drewbie and Catz as confirmed people in the house. Im a bit skeptical as to what level they actually think they will train themselfs to because the opportunity was there for both of them when they were on complexity, Example drewbie went to korea to "so call train". Yet nothing came out of it and they even left complexity which had them in a position to get the best training possible. Seems like a bunch of scapegoating and excuses, If they didnt go All out then, they wont go all out now. Sadly i just see this Root house as a knee jerk reaction to WCS and a want to be like EG. I dont see any real structure to this move. | ||
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ngri
Luxembourg136 Posts
On May 02 2013 07:17 Lumi wrote: There is a surprisingly relevant Ted talk I watched a few days ago which touches directly on asking fans for money: http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.html This covers my opinion on the matter. Thanks for that, that's awesome.+1 On May 02 2013 07:24 Waxangel wrote: Even if your assumption that TotalBiscuit does similar things to Richard Lewis is true, wouldn't that technically be hypocracy, and not irony? English majors help me out here. Isn't it hypocrisy? Now that's ironic  ) | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On May 02 2013 07:24 Waxangel wrote: Even if your assumption that TotalBiscuit does similar things to Richard Lewis is true, wouldn't that technically be hypocracy, and not irony? English majors help me out here. It would be hypocrisy if Totalbiscuit knowingly partakes in polemic nerd-baiting while pointing the finger at Richard Lewis, whereas irony is more appropriate if TB is unaware of his own inflammatory posting nature as he indicts RL. Given the oftentimes knee-jerkish nature of TB's posting, I think it likely that he unknowingly stirs up a great deal of controversy, so I'm afraid irony is likely the most appropriate word here. Perhaps hypocritical irony?  | ||
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
So a video games studio (A CORPORATE ENTITY) asks you to fund their projects cause no one else will. Yea you get a much more tangible benefit that you will one day receive said game. But its still them asking you for money. BeyondTheSummit's new studio doesn't give us anymore than a root-gaming house will. It allows these organizations to produce more and hopefully better content in the realm of e-sports. This guy is just a drama queen who needs to think a little bit before he speaks. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On May 02 2013 04:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Yup, absolutely. People can do whatever the hell they want when it comes to their money, within the bounds of the law. If they want to give it to ROOT for a house, nobody gets to say that's "wrong". Crowd-funding is more and more commonplace these days. You can call it begging all you want, but as much as you want it to, it does not delegitimize the organization or the fundraising effort. Yeah, I agree. If Kickstarters work, and if people crowd fund game development with money, it's not different really. This happens all the time (even outside of eSports) and for basically everything. I feel like this is better than the usual <we need money for this indie game that has never before been seen by the gaming world !!!1111> stuff that has been happening a lot recently (disclaimer - I know some are acceptable, especially in the case of "lack of supply but a lot of demand" like demand for hack-n-slash ARPG but this has been increasingly more common recently). Edit - I'm sort of neutral and don't really play that many different games (I played like a total of only 7 different games over the course the last decade >.>). Also, Catz is a very likeable guy IMO and reasonable too. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On May 02 2013 06:44 jalstar wrote: it's a good point but ROOT has done nothing to deserve being attacked specifically. look at any popular stream on twitch for any game, unless the streamer gets a salary from a big team like EG, they'll have a donation button. why? because people like giving away money and begging for donations is easier than working part-time to pay rent. Actually now that I think about it at least ROOT is saying what they'll do with the money, everyone else is just saying "support me." I know the words "donation" and "support me" are used by a lot of streamers, but I think "tip jar" and "pay-what-you-want" are much better. Receiving money for streaming is the opposite of fundraising. The streamer is putting the content out there for free and people can decide for themselves what it's worth. The streamer is taking a risk putting time and effort and expense into creating content that might flop. Fundraising is for when there's no product until money is given. The donators are taking a risk giving money for something that may not be worth it. There's an absolutely essential difference there and I'd hate for these two opposite ways of paying for things to get conflated. | ||
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Ravensong170
United States858 Posts
On May 02 2013 04:12 synd wrote: He has a point but no one from community will ever try to think about it since CatZ is so much liked by the community. Just the fact that we already have a 2nd project like that in less than a week -> http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/al-gaming-house is a joke itself. People shouldn't be allowed to abuse the community so much. It's the same as nowdays' Kickstarter trend to ask people for money to make a game that you have to buy afterwards. Totally wtf nooo..... unless you are supporting some terrible company. By supporting the game. You GET the game when it is released. You are purchasing the game upon support. Project eternity, the new PLanescape Torment, STar Citizen, Wasteland. If you supported the game. You get it upon release. You need to do some research. Crowdsourcing is a legit way of funding projects. Not all the projects are good or worthwhile and some abuse it. but that is up to the consumer. In this case, Root was open, and SO was BeyondtheSummit, which many people aren't realizing also funded their new studio through crowdsourcing. This also isn't abuse of the community. If it was, than the community would actually be angry, but no one was raging that BTS or ROOT were doing this, until this drama queen (who is still riding destiny's dick) is just trying to maintain his relevance by drooling bullshit onto his keyboard. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
I do think foreign teams need a bit more of a proper training house regimen, but there's not really the talent to justify doing it alone in most cases. Rosters simply aren't deep enough in the most case. You don't magically get good by playing in a Korean house, or going to Korea, it's because you're playing with a lot of high calibre players in a structured environment. EG and TL have already shown (despite their occasional travails) that pooling resources and talent between teams shows better results than going it alone. While the Korean contingent may not be tearing Pro League up, they're showing really good form in individual leagues, and they have the requisite talent to do a lot of training in-house, hide builds etc. Even then their rosters are not as deep as the Kespa teams, and that's the two top foreign-owned teams Korean rosters combined, so why would Root get a massive increase in results? I don't mean to bash Root, and I assume they'll open it to select players outside of their team, but I just wish we saw a bit more cooperation of that level. Perhaps it's not viable for other reasons ofc. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Things I don't do: Nerdbaiting for money. Things idiots think I do: Nerdbaiting for money. | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
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DivinO
United States4796 Posts
On May 02 2013 08:13 DamnCats wrote: I feel like this situation should only turn dramatic if Catz made all these promises about what he was going to do with the money and then 3 months later it turns out he blew it on a bunch of Peruvian prostitutes and cocaine. CatZ if you're reading this: Please don't do this. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On May 02 2013 04:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Yup, absolutely. People can do whatever the hell they want when it comes to their money, within the bounds of the law. If they want to give it to ROOT for a house, nobody gets to say that's "wrong". Crowd-funding is more and more commonplace these days. You can call it begging all you want, but as much as you want it to, it does not delegitimize the organization or the fundraising effort. TB is on point. Also, anyone else think of Richard Lewis from Curb Your Enthusiasm? | ||
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Bashnek
Australia895 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Never even heard of him until this thread. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
On May 02 2013 08:21 Disengaged wrote: Am I supposed to know who Richard Lewis is? Because I sure as hell don't lol Never even heard of him until this thread. This is Richard Lewis + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://sacurrent.com/polopoly_fs/1.1229494!/image/800694862.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/800694862.jpg) | ||
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flodeskum
Iceland1267 Posts
On May 02 2013 08:16 DivinO wrote: CatZ if you're reading this: Please don't do this. Yeah, seriously, you need to go to Columbia for the best coke 'n hoes. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Looks like a pedophile. | ||
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Megapenthes
United Kingdom202 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On May 02 2013 04:14 farvacola wrote: If organizations asking for money amounts to abuse, than I think there are million better places to start pointing fingers. I agree that it's a fair point to raise. More and more organizations or teams are relying on soliciting donations and hand-outs rather than actually developing a sustainable business model. Mooching off the goodwill of your fans is not a long-term solution. I mean, there used to be a time when entrepreneurship required the entrepreneur to actually figure out a way to generate revenue, raise serious capital, and assume some personal financial risk. I think Root should look in the mirror, and ask themselves how seriously they're taking themselves and their business. If you couldn't get a $25,000 bank loan (which is peanuts) to take your business to the next level, it's probably a sign that you don't have a real plan for the future. A lot of start-ups trade services for revenue while they are raising capital. Instead of giving away a pack of old replays, why not offer coaching services for large or ongoing donations? Or unlimited access to replays or other learning tools? But yeah, it's not fair to single out Root. People would take this Richard Lewis guy more seriously if he did some more research, broadened the scope of this topic and but some more thought into his article. He should really be criticizing or analyzing the business of esport team management as a whole. | ||
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