EPTWhy do we want foreigners to compete with koreans? - Page 6
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McDrizzle
United States131 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:14 Dingodile wrote: Pretty much this. just fan of his game is the biggest factor. sc2 has nothing of this, truly absolutely nothing. Lets see a sc2 game without scoreboard, we all arent able to detect which player is playing. in wc3 is was very easy to detect due to his own "unique" playstyle (especially Moon, Zacard, Grubby, ToD, Sky, TH000, TeD, FoV and Lyn). Nah, that's not quite true. I'm a huge fan of RoX.KIS.fraer but I have never seen a single interview with him. It's purely based on the way he plays, he caught my eye in weekly cups and I got more and more interested until he started beating players like Bomber and GuMiho online and Puma, Vampire, Stephano or TheStC at DreamHack. I probably couldn't recognize him in a Bo1 match, but he still has a very unique style that makes him stand out in my opinion. | ||
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
I like watching people who are the best at ANYTHING. Sports, video games, music, aerobics, writing, whatever. I am not the hardcore Starcraft 2 fan that this thread is probably leaning towards, but I am a part of the "swing vote" - those of us who would like to watch well organized competition at the top but not worry about the din from whence the best came. | ||
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dinosrwar
1290 Posts
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triforks
United States370 Posts
also i'm pretty sure they all help each other and stuff where in foreign team houses everyone just streams ladder all day for a quick few bucks | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
The current model is fine, at the worst we'll see a bunch of foreigners in the WCS tournaments. At the best we'll see one a couple of them in the finals and the overall skill level of foreigners will improve, with team houses being created in America/Europe. 1 NA spot, 2 EU spots would be insulting, and would probably turn me off from competitive starcraft viewing altogether. Also understand that the game is so volatile one good day or one bad day can make the best player in the world go down early, completely skewing other results. So 1 NA spot and 2 EU spots could see the single best player in NA drop down in the RO4 for instance, and the 2 best players in Europe drop out before the finals as well. Doesn't mean that the skill levels would be any more even, though I'm personally of the opinion that there are plenty of foreigners that can do well against the top 16 koreans in a western style tournament (long, faster paced, inability to prepare specifically for opponents for weeks). | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:19 dinosrwar wrote: I don't care about bad players. Really WCS should be Korea/EU. It's not like (back to soccer metaphor) the Champions League randomly includes MLS teams just because they want to let the North Americans participate. If the NA scene wants to be self-sustaining that's fine, but to put them on pair with players of real skill is a joke. The Champions League doesn't include MLS teams because it's the UEFA Champions League. WCS does suggest that it's a global event, so take it more like the FIFA Club World Cup where the Champions League winner gets matched up with weaker teams from other continents. You don't see people running around going "Al-Ahly trash club what are they doing in there". | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
On April 04 2013 17:42 norlock wrote: This is what I think is the best solutions, in WCS 13 players are seeded from Korea and 2 players from EU and 1 player from NA. This means it is balanced between the regions compared to their skill. And also for Koreans not an handicap, and the need to fly over to compete. Not acceptable for the American standard, we are the best nation in the entire world, this is a disgrace to our ideal and our flag that our fathers fought so hard for, we will not be look down and pissed on by the idea of charity, giving us one seed? we don't need to be given any seed, we will take them from the koreans with real skills, just like what happened in the korean wars. In huk we trust, usa usa usa usa~ | ||
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eXeZerg
95 Posts
I'm neither.. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
On April 04 2013 18:57 Kinon wrote: Can someone explain me why Catz's opinions are taken so seriously? I'm farily new to the ESports, but I chechk his profile and he doesn't seem like an amazing player with lots of achievements. His team didn't seem to have that much succes (except for the koreans in it). I'm baffled that his stream has 2-3k viewers, while better players have under 1k. Could someone please explain to me? I love this question because it indirectly addresses the OP perfectly. This is the very reason why we shouldn't just have koreans fighting koreans all the time. It's all about what people want to see. Right now there is a market for all korean tournaments, for foreigner vs korean tournaments but I will be very interested in seeing how well a tournament could do with all foreigners - assuming it has the production level of the other two. I think there could be a lot of success to be had if you exploited the fact that people really care about some of the personalities within the foreigner community. Also: On April 04 2013 18:36 shell wrote: What i don't understand is why the people that only want to see korean players be so mad and vocal against the people(me included) that feel that some tournaments should be foreigner oriented. You have the GSL, PL and GSTL and possibly more leagues incoming.. tournaments that i also see and follow and pay for them. Don't we have the same right? I love to know who is the best NA player or best EU player.. i don't need to always see the same players since i follow them when they play at "home" This. Exactly. Times a million. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:19 dinosrwar wrote: I don't care about bad players. Really WCS should be Korea/EU. It's not like (back to soccer metaphor) the Champions League randomly includes MLS teams just because they want to let the North Americans participate. If the NA scene wants to be self-sustaining that's fine, but to put them on pair with players of real skill is a joke. What the hell? Well, let's cut out some more fat. If you want WCS to be the best of the best, might as well just cut out EU as well. Compared to Korea, nothing stands. "To put them on par with players of real skill?" Koreans dominate EVERYONE else. Everyone. That includes EU. Let's not try to single out NA here... As for NA leagues? It won't work. Isn't NASL a great example? It's painful to say it, but yes, NA players need to work harder. They need to start focusing more on their mechanics. The fact that they don't means that they'll just keep falling further and further behind. Execution is key. You lack on it, and you will fail. | ||
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koonst
United States215 Posts
here are things t oconsider ( evidence to support my claim): bw . big in korea.. smal foreigner following and no chance in hell competing against them on a regular basis . the flip side.. when sc2 was released and the foreigners were 99% as good as the koreans. it was exciting it bred story lines it bred what thr scene became . compared to bw it was monolithic the only way a foreigner can compete against a korean on an even field is if they establish training centers kinda like what seoul is for the koreans. we need to establish a N A and a E U center. and that wont ever happen if korean is the only place that matters on earth. for sc2. soo we need regoinal Gsl like tournaments that push the foreigners to train more. harder and closer. that leads to being able to compete with the koreans. which means alot more viewership/ bigger esports events.// more sponsors. soo when you ask the question should we ? im going to ask you. why the hell not? | ||
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Slanina
35 Posts
Not acceptable for the American standard, we are the best nation in the entire world. we will take them from the koreans with real skills, just like what happened in the korean wars. [/QUOTE] i can just hope that this stupid, arrogant and crazy comment is pure sarcasm my friend... | ||
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winthrop
Hong Kong956 Posts
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
Blizzcon Qualification Point Weight 1 NA point = 1 qualification point 1 EU point = 2 qualification points 1 KR point = 5 qualification points Seasonal finals: GSL/OSL: Round of 8 players EU:.......... Round of 4 players NA:.......... Top 3 players (extra 3rd place match needed) Wildcard:.. Extra player from host region (whatever decides this extra, I don't have a good idea for yet) Price Money Split: Korea:.. 55% Eu:....... 30% NA:...... 15% This is the only way for all of this to be fair and make any sense at all. If koreans want to leave korea and play in NA/EU for less competition, that's fine, but they're gonna earn less money and points by doing so. If NAs/EUs want to rise up to the challenge and play korea, their success would be rewards with more money/points as well. This model is followed by almost all pretigious leagues like Champions league. Not every european league gets same number of sports and etc Blizz plz listen to me lol The numbers/%s may not be exact or anything like that, but I have the right idea. Please don't make it even | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
I've always though that the main problem with the NA/EU scene is not with the players, but the teams. NA/EU teams that prefer to spend tons of money on importing Korean talent instead of promoting local, potentially future stars (EG being the best/ worst example). I understand why this happens but as long as this will be the case, there really is no motivation for a young person to dedicate to much time in trying to become a pro...he has no support. The only alternative is to act as a "Joker" and "Streamer" hoping to bring value to a team by any way possible...to become a "personality". This "personalities" then act all buthurt that they can't win tournaments and ask for special treatment. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
On April 05 2013 00:41 koonst wrote: why do we want them to compete with koreans? boy thats a knee jerk reaction isnt it? i mean you really didnt stop and just think things though sideways backwards or forwards ?? i mean here are things t oconsider ( evidence to support my claim): bw . big in korea.. smal foreigner following and no chance in hell competing against them on a regular basis . the flip side.. when sc2 was released and the foreigners were 99% as good as the koreans. it was exciting it bred story lines it bred what thr scene became . compared to bw it was monolithic the only way a foreigner can compete against a korean on an even field is if they establish training centers kinda like what seoul is for the koreans. we need to establish a N A and a E U center. and that wont ever happen if korean is the only place that matters on earth. for sc2. soo we need regoinal Gsl like tournaments that push the foreigners to train more. harder and closer. that leads to being able to compete with the koreans. which means alot more viewership/ bigger esports events.// more sponsors. soo when you ask the question should we ? im going to ask you. why the hell not? because of our pride, we will not be look down up on by the rest of the world that we ran from the highest level of competition in order to feel good about ourselves by giving ourselves blow jobs, we will take all the money from the koreans with real skill not trickery. That's the American way, where is your pride? where is your honor? where is your competitive spirit? In huk we trust, USA USA USA USA!! | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea. Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job. If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out. I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ). Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because : a) incentive due to their crazy educational system b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country | ||
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edlover420
349 Posts
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