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On April 05 2013 01:09 Aterons_toss wrote:
If you are going to do that you might as well just make it Korea only because non will have a chance to qualify,this way you might have a few foreigners make it to ro8 or even ro4 if not than the 3 foreigners will surely have no chance.
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea.
Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job.
If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out.
I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ).
Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because :
a) incentive due to their crazy educational system
b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball
c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country
Starcraft was not even in the top 10 games played in Korea... The BW nation wide celebrity status is long gone. They are better because they practice a lot more in an organized structure instead of just playing a few ladder games when you feel like it the way most foreigners do.
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I for one, have no desire what so ever to see lesser foreign players beat top Koreans. I want to see Flash ROFL stomp everybody he faces. That is what makes me happy, watching the very best dominate. I also enjoy the overall attitude from Korea which is one of good manner. This makes it very easy for me to cheer for the top Koreans as they roll through tournament after tournament.
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On April 05 2013 01:09 Aterons_toss wrote:
If you are going to do that you might as well just make it Korea only because non will have a chance to qualify,this way you might have a few foreigners make it to ro8 or even ro4 if not than the 3 foreigners will surely have no chance.
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea.
Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job.
If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out.
I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ).
Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because :
a) incentive due to their crazy educational system
b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball
c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country
practicing 10 to 14 hours in a well structured team house in the exact same environment as the Koreans will not produce the same skills. Let me give you an example, Idra did that korean team house thing for years, and nony still came along came out of his 5 year retirement and trained for 2 weeks at his house in USA and proceed to roflstomp idra without that korean team house environment.
saying koreans are better because of their educational system, because of their culture, because of their race is so wrong, do you think their education and culture and race allow ppl like mvp, taejja and flash and many others grind through the pain that is carpal tunnel and refuse to let up? and then surgically repair the wrist and keep at it?
Contributing the each individual player's achievement to their race and culture is racism. Ya even if it's a positive praise, you are taking away the glory from the person and giving it to their race, and say their culture produced it.
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Let's just let the numbers do the talking,
I wonder how many people would tune in to watch NA's very own Code A. I think an NA/EU-only tournament is ok for those with overwhelming nationalistic pride but we all know the competition in those would pretty much be a farce.
SC2 fans are not like LoL's, idk why but LoL esports grew in a way that made their fans think that their local players were actually the best in the world, that's why a lot of people still think TSM got robbed in the S2 finals and why Dignitas vs. CLG gets 100k viewers while SKT vs CJ gets 5k. SC2 isn't like that, there were koreans here since the beginning showing what it means to be good so the vast majority of us are aware that foreigners just straight up suck in comparison. I think it's a bit too late to change that conception and that will translate to poor viewership for NA's WCS in average. I know I won't be watching but that's just me but of course I could be wrong too so let's just wait and see.
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On April 05 2013 01:28 Kergy wrote:
Let's just let the numbers do the talking,
I wonder how many people would tune in to watch NA's very own Code A. I think an NA/EU-only tournament is ok for those with overwhelming nationalistic pride but we all know the competition in those would pretty much be a farce.
SC2 fans are not like LoL's, idk why but LoL esports grew in a way that made their fans think that their local players were actually the best in the world, that's why a lot of people still think TSM got robbed in the S2 finals and why Dignitas vs. CLG gets 100k viewers while SKT vs CJ gets 5k. SC2 isn't like that, there were koreans here since the beginning showing what it means to be good so the vast majority of us are aware that foreigners just straight up suck in comparison. I think it's a bit too late to change that conception and that will translate to poor viewership for NA's WCS in average. I know I won't be watching but that's just me but of course I could be wrong too so let's just wait and see.
Funny you talk about Code A, because I remember a time Code A consisted pretty much of snarf games as well. ^.^
But given enough time, it motivated enough players to become so good, that Code A became incredibly good.
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The problem with using NASL is that it wasn't an exclusive NA/EU tournament, ffs NASL1 had Koreans like Boxer invited. There really hasn't been a major NA tournament that has been exclusive to NA ever.
I think it's something that we as foreigners need to give the motivation players need. Koreans still have GSL, MLG, and all of the other shit they can dominate but frankly it's getting tiring, and is more stagnant than the SC game itself. More NA tournaments means more opportunity for foreigners to give a shit about playing, and being able to win something. Many good points have been brought up about gaming as a professional industry, and that the money really isn't there compared to over in Seoul, and South Korea in general.
We don't have that sort of support like the koreans do to make it far easier for them to sustain themselves. Sure koreans come to the NA teams for salaries that are "better" than the Korean counterparts for all you know that's entirely false, and they just want to play in NA for the big payouts like MLG, and the sort that they can ez farm  . No one ever said at any point that the tournaments that are region locked should be huge multi-national level payouts...ever...just because it's region locked doesn't mean it's an MLG with a $100,000 prize pool for Top 8...jesus. Something definitely needs to be done though or else I fear Korea will once again be the only place that is, and ever will be Starcraft.
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On April 05 2013 01:28 Kergy wrote:
Let's just let the numbers do the talking,
I wonder how many people would tune in to watch NA's very own Code A. I think an NA/EU-only tournament is ok for those with overwhelming nationalistic pride but we all know the competition in those would pretty much be a farce.
SC2 fans are not like LoL's, idk why but LoL esports grew in a way that made their fans think that their local players were actually the best in the world, that's why a lot of people still think TSM got robbed in the S2 finals and why Dignitas vs. CLG gets 100k viewers while SKT vs CJ gets 5k. SC2 isn't like that, there were koreans here since the beginning showing what it means to be good so the vast majority of us are aware that foreigners just straight up suck in comparison. I think it's a bit too late to change that conception and that will translate to poor viewership for NA's WCS in average. I know I won't be watching but that's just me but of course I could be wrong too so let's just wait and see.
I would disagree in that the vast majority of the LoL fanbase understands that the Koreans are the best. You are right in that Korean/Chinese LoL tournaments don't get the viewers that LCS gets, but that's only because they are not as easily accessible as NA/EU tournaments are.
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American/Eu only tournaments will just turn the scene into BW again. Foreigners will only wanna compete in these non korean tournaments for a chance to lose money without actually putting in the work to compete against koreans. Its just admitting that koreans will be better than them because they dont want to work hard enough.
The benefit of American only tournament would be that if a serious team wanted to get a team house to win these tournaments and still compete against koreans in other tournaments.
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On April 05 2013 01:27 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:09 Aterons_toss wrote:
If you are going to do that you might as well just make it Korea only because non will have a chance to qualify,this way you might have a few foreigners make it to ro8 or even ro4 if not than the 3 foreigners will surely have no chance.
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea.
Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job.
If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out.
I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ).
Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because :
a) incentive due to their crazy educational system
b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball
c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country practicing 10 to 14 hours in a well structured team house in the exact same environment as the Koreans will not produce the same skills. Let me give you an example, Idra did that korean team house thing for years, and nony still came along came out of his 5 year retirement and trained for 2 weeks at his house in USA and proceed to roflstomp idra without that korean team house environment. saying koreans are better because of their educational system, because of their culture, because of their race is so wrong, do you think their education and culture and race allow ppl like mvp, taejja and flash and many others grind through the pain that is carpal tunnel and refuse to let up? and then surgically repair the wrist and keep at it? Contributing the each individual player's achievement to their race and culture is racism. Ya even if it's a positive praise, you are taking away the glory from the person and giving it to their race, and say their culture produced it.
Do you read your own posts? I agree that a foreign player will not achieve the same skill due to playing 10-14 hours / day while not being in Korea, but the reason is not that he's foreign or they are Korean. Its just that the level in Korea is a lot higher and you have that much room to improve. When you are the best in NA and cannot raise your level, because you have no people who challenge you and push you to your limits, you are not even in the midfield of Korea.
Thats how it looks like and thats why Korea "produces" better players. Racism .. what the fuck are you talking about? Read your last 3 posts... that did sound like racism.
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Something I've always wondered, what makes a Korean professional team different than a North American professional team like EG-TL? Do the Koreans simply practice a lot more, or are the pros in Korea paid higher since the Esport is a lot bigger over there? Does the general Eastern cultural emphasis on incredibly articulate work ethic and flow play a part in how well the Koreans perform?
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Stop giving yourselves excuses for sucking, look at stephano, he's not a product of korean culture, nor practice environment and he's been taking korean moneys for the past 2 years. Now look at idra he was grinding away in korea for a good 3 years before sc2 came out, and where is he now? It is not the practice environment that produce the results, it's the player that produce the results, stop giving excuses and get better, play smarter. This mentality of "not fair their culture is better at sc2 than ours, there is nothing we can do" has no substance, it's all whining, the koreans don't start out with 7 workers every game. The koreans want to succeed in this as badly as they need to breath, keep up with that intensity instead of whining about it.
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On April 05 2013 01:44 rei wrote:
Stop giving yourselves excuses for sucking, look at stephano, he's not a product of korean culture, nor practice environment and he's been taking korean moneys for the past 2 years. Now look at idra he was grinding away in korea for a good 3 years before sc2 came out, and where is he now? It is not the practice environment that produce the results, it's the player that produce the results, stop giving excuses and get better, play smarter. This mentality of "not fair their culture is better at sc2 than ours, there is nothing we can do" has no substance, it's all whining, the koreans don't start out with 7 workers every game. The koreans want to succeed in this as badly as they need to breath, keep up with that intensity instead of whining about it.
Your reading skills must be abysmal or you simply ignore my posts. I'm not even a supporter of foreign players to begin with, but I want to see the best possible play which is coming from Korea, yet you really don't have to be a genius to realize that one can only push its level that far as the player base does allow. Why do you think the level of Korean players does decrease when staying outside of Korea? The level here is simply worse and at some point there's no way to improve, because there is no one giving you a challenge.
If you never encounter timings or encounter timings that arrive 30 seconds late compared to a Korean pro, how are you supposed to be ready and how do you learn to defend it? If you don't get that simple logic discussing with you makes no sense. A few very talented and gifted players rising near Korean level doesn't make the general fact untrue.
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On April 05 2013 01:48 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:44 rei wrote:
Stop giving yourselves excuses for sucking, look at stephano, he's not a product of korean culture, nor practice environment and he's been taking korean moneys for the past 2 years. Now look at idra he was grinding away in korea for a good 3 years before sc2 came out, and where is he now? It is not the practice environment that produce the results, it's the player that produce the results, stop giving excuses and get better, play smarter. This mentality of "not fair their culture is better at sc2 than ours, there is nothing we can do" has no substance, it's all whining, the koreans don't start out with 7 workers every game. The koreans want to succeed in this as badly as they need to breath, keep up with that intensity instead of whining about it. Your reading skills must be abysmal or you simply ignore my posts. I'm not even a supporter of foreign players to begin with, but I want to see the best possible play which is coming from Korea, yet you really don't have to be a genius to realize that one can only push its level that far as the player base does allow. Why do you think the level of Korean players does decrease when staying outside of Korea? The level here is simply worse and at some point there's no way to improve, because there is no one giving you a challenge. If you never encounter timings or encounter timings that arrive 30 seconds late compared to a Korean pro, how are you supposed to be ready and how do you learn to defend it? If you don't get that simple logic discussing with you makes no sense. A few very talented and gifted players rising near Korean level doesn't make the general fact untrue.
You need to stop responding to the "Try harder, practice more," posters. There is enough information as to why the foreign scene is behind Korea for them to know that is not a matter of practice or man hours put in. They are either trolling or just choose to believe that the foreigners are truly lazier than Koreans(which does not hold up for other professional competitions, oddly enough).
The simple fact of the matter is that the Korean pro-gaming system is better than anything we have in NA or EU. They are better able to find and refine talent. NA and EU have talented players that don't even know they are talented, but there is no clear path for those players to test their metal and grow.
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On April 05 2013 01:35 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:27 rei wrote:On April 05 2013 01:09 Aterons_toss wrote:
If you are going to do that you might as well just make it Korea only because non will have a chance to qualify,this way you might have a few foreigners make it to ro8 or even ro4 if not than the 3 foreigners will surely have no chance.
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea.
Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job.
If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out.
I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ).
Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because :
a) incentive due to their crazy educational system
b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball
c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country practicing 10 to 14 hours in a well structured team house in the exact same environment as the Koreans will not produce the same skills. Let me give you an example, Idra did that korean team house thing for years, and nony still came along came out of his 5 year retirement and trained for 2 weeks at his house in USA and proceed to roflstomp idra without that korean team house environment. saying koreans are better because of their educational system, because of their culture, because of their race is so wrong, do you think their education and culture and race allow ppl like mvp, taejja and flash and many others grind through the pain that is carpal tunnel and refuse to let up? and then surgically repair the wrist and keep at it? Contributing the each individual player's achievement to their race and culture is racism. Ya even if it's a positive praise, you are taking away the glory from the person and giving it to their race, and say their culture produced it. Do you read your own posts? I agree that a foreign player will not achieve the same skill due to playing 10-14 hours / day while not being in Korea, but the reason is not that he's foreign or they are Korean. Its just that the level in Korea is a lot higher and you have that much room to improve. When you are the best in NA and cannot raise your level, because you have no people who challenge you and push you to your limits, you are not even in the midfield of Korea. Thats how it looks like and thats why Korea "produces" better players. Racism .. what the fuck are you talking about? Read your last 3 posts... that did sound like racism.
"I agree that a foreigner will not achieve the same skill due to playing 10-14 hours/day while not being in korea"
Idra was in CJ for 2 years before SC2 came out, your argument is invalid.
"when you are the best in NA and cannot raise your level, because you have no people who challenge you and push you to your limits,"
you are arguing with assumptions and generalization, i am arguing with facts.
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On April 05 2013 01:31 Headshot wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:28 Kergy wrote:
Let's just let the numbers do the talking,
I wonder how many people would tune in to watch NA's very own Code A. I think an NA/EU-only tournament is ok for those with overwhelming nationalistic pride but we all know the competition in those would pretty much be a farce.
SC2 fans are not like LoL's, idk why but LoL esports grew in a way that made their fans think that their local players were actually the best in the world, that's why a lot of people still think TSM got robbed in the S2 finals and why Dignitas vs. CLG gets 100k viewers while SKT vs CJ gets 5k. SC2 isn't like that, there were koreans here since the beginning showing what it means to be good so the vast majority of us are aware that foreigners just straight up suck in comparison. I think it's a bit too late to change that conception and that will translate to poor viewership for NA's WCS in average. I know I won't be watching but that's just me but of course I could be wrong too so let's just wait and see. I would disagree in that the vast majority of the LoL fanbase understands that the Koreans are the best. You are right in that Korean/Chinese LoL tournaments don't get the viewers that LCS gets, but that's only because they are not as easily accessible as NA/EU tournaments are.
I really don't think so, reading reddit or the LoL froums makes you think that most of them are completely ignorant of what's going on in the global scene and only watch/care about their local scenes. That might change a bit in the upcoming cross-region matches or the season finals when the asians teams roflstomp everyone. Also, SWL is the tournament with arguably the best teams in the world (China/Korea) and it airs at the same time as LCS NA but they're lucky to get more than 3k viewers.
Thinking about it, it's a good thing for a local scene to have 'ignorant' fans. There's a small SC2 community here in Peru which consists mostly of people that we would consider 'casuals' and are unaware of the international scene. Fenix is quite popular in the gaming communities and people think of him as one of the best players in the world because he won the local WCG and stomps every peruvian he plays against. That brought him personal sponsorships and he's doing quite well in here.
It would be ok if a similar thing happened in NA/EU but as I said, I think it's too late for that. Most fans are already aware of how the SC2 scene works and how koreans are vastly superior to their local heroes.
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i wouldnt mind NA only NA tournament and same for EU, happens in soccer so why not. NA would be like kleague and KR premiere league. just take the risk and see if it'll survive, if not, feed the koreans once again.
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On April 05 2013 01:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:48 Type|NarutO wrote:On April 05 2013 01:44 rei wrote:
Stop giving yourselves excuses for sucking, look at stephano, he's not a product of korean culture, nor practice environment and he's been taking korean moneys for the past 2 years. Now look at idra he was grinding away in korea for a good 3 years before sc2 came out, and where is he now? It is not the practice environment that produce the results, it's the player that produce the results, stop giving excuses and get better, play smarter. This mentality of "not fair their culture is better at sc2 than ours, there is nothing we can do" has no substance, it's all whining, the koreans don't start out with 7 workers every game. The koreans want to succeed in this as badly as they need to breath, keep up with that intensity instead of whining about it. Your reading skills must be abysmal or you simply ignore my posts. I'm not even a supporter of foreign players to begin with, but I want to see the best possible play which is coming from Korea, yet you really don't have to be a genius to realize that one can only push its level that far as the player base does allow. Why do you think the level of Korean players does decrease when staying outside of Korea? The level here is simply worse and at some point there's no way to improve, because there is no one giving you a challenge. If you never encounter timings or encounter timings that arrive 30 seconds late compared to a Korean pro, how are you supposed to be ready and how do you learn to defend it? If you don't get that simple logic discussing with you makes no sense. A few very talented and gifted players rising near Korean level doesn't make the general fact untrue. The simple fact of the matter is that the Korean pro-gaming system is better than anything we have in NA or EU. They are better able to find and refine talent. NA and EU have talented players that don't even know they are talented, but there is no clear path for those players to test their metal and grow.
Thank you. I was simply curious given I know a lot of Foreign Pros play the game as much as if not more than many of the Korean Pros do.
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The point of the system just went over everyone's head. You can't simultaneously say "work harder, get better" if you remove the incentive for getting better. Right now, the NA scene has very little tournament infrastructure between someone just getting to GM level and Code-S level tournaments like MLG and NASL. An 18 year old who just finished high school may be rank 100 on the NA ladder will have to make the choice "do I go to university, or do I go pro?" Right now, I'd imagine that that choice is really easy: go to university and play part time. The difference in results won't make that much of a difference-- placing 64th at an open MLG is approximately the same result as placing 72nd or 45th.
In order to be able to say "work harder, get better" there needs to be something that you can realistically work towards. The case of the 18 year old making that decision becomes a lot different if he actually has the opportunity to win enough money and gain enough notoriety to support himself. Sponsors will care a lot more about a team with players who place top 3 in the American WCS compared to the same team which has results like "we were the top foreigner placing 45th in this tournament of Koreans."
I don't think people understand that telling a top 100 NA player to "just keep practicing, I don't care about you until you are Code-S level" is really demotivating.
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On April 05 2013 01:48 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:44 rei wrote:
Stop giving yourselves excuses for sucking, look at stephano, he's not a product of korean culture, nor practice environment and he's been taking korean moneys for the past 2 years. Now look at idra he was grinding away in korea for a good 3 years before sc2 came out, and where is he now? It is not the practice environment that produce the results, it's the player that produce the results, stop giving excuses and get better, play smarter. This mentality of "not fair their culture is better at sc2 than ours, there is nothing we can do" has no substance, it's all whining, the koreans don't start out with 7 workers every game. The koreans want to succeed in this as badly as they need to breath, keep up with that intensity instead of whining about it. Your reading skills must be abysmal or you simply ignore my posts. I'm not even a supporter of foreign players to begin with, but I want to see the best possible play which is coming from Korea, yet you really don't have to be a genius to realize that one can only push its level that far as the player base does allow. Why do you think the level of Korean players does decrease when staying outside of Korea? The level here is simply worse and at some point there's no way to improve, because there is no one giving you a challenge. If you never encounter timings or encounter timings that arrive 30 seconds late compared to a Korean pro, how are you supposed to be ready and how do you learn to defend it? If you don't get that simple logic discussing with you makes no sense. A few very talented and gifted players rising near Korean level doesn't make the general fact untrue.
your ad hominem fallacy is too blatant to be taken serious, an no there is no limit created by the culture, the only limit is the talent of the player. Korean culture don't spawn an extra worker for them when the game starts.
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On April 05 2013 01:27 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 01:09 Aterons_toss wrote:
If you are going to do that you might as well just make it Korea only because non will have a chance to qualify,this way you might have a few foreigners make it to ro8 or even ro4 if not than the 3 foreigners will surely have no chance.
And it won't "encourage" the growth of the scene, it will encourage the growth of Korea.
Even if you "take their money away" Europeans and Americans won't become Koreans, I could bet that for every foreign player if they had to chose between practicing for 14 hours or not making money they would get the hell out and go to college or find a job.
If you look at most of the successful foreigner in strategy game in general they are people like Grubby and Stephano, people that quite college for an year to try the game and became really good based on their tactics, that's why I would assume you see foreigners doing better at the beginning of BW, WC3 and SC2 than toward the end... because there is still shit to figure out.
I don't think 99% of the people you see playing starcraft outside of Korea have the mentality or live in the conditions where it would be enjoyable for them to literally train 10 to 14 hours a day for years and years to than ( sometimes ) come to fame and win about the same amount of money you would if you would have put all those hours into university ( do note that in most European countries going to a university is much cheaper than in America ).
Koreans can ( imo ) play that much for that long because :
a) incentive due to their crazy educational system
b) incentive because they can literally become nation wide celebrities and most of them probably see starcraft much like we see footbal here or as Americans see basketball
c)a place where they can do that type of stuff without having thousands of dollars saved up to keep themselves alive or being forced to move to another country practicing 10 to 14 hours in a well structured team house in the exact same environment as the Koreans will not produce the same skills. Let me give you an example, Idra did that korean team house thing for years, and nony still came along came out of his 5 year retirement and trained for 2 weeks at his house in USA and proceed to roflstomp idra without that korean team house environment. saying koreans are better because of their educational system, because of their culture, because of their race is so wrong, do you think their education and culture and race allow ppl like mvp, taejja and flash and many others grind through the pain that is carpal tunnel and refuse to let up? and then surgically repair the wrist and keep at it? Contributing the each individual player's achievement to their race and culture is racism. Ya even if it's a positive praise, you are taking away the glory from the person and giving it to their race, and say their culture produced it.
What the hell did you read ?
I said they have more incentive due to the fact that their educational system is much harder than ours thus playing so much starcraft would likely seem like a much better alternative.
I said that in Korea they have Seoul with all the team house and there are non in any major EU or NA cities.
And I said that being a progamer is likely more social accepted there by both friends, relatives and the society in general.
What the hell was racist in my post ?
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EPT
