EPTWell in football/ice hockey they also don't remove the top teams/players so that the bad team you are cheering for can win the league right?
Why do we want foreigners to compete with koreans? - Page 5
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
Well in football/ice hockey they also don't remove the top teams/players so that the bad team you are cheering for can win the league right? | ||
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Kuni
Austria765 Posts
No thx. Some might not care for anything other than the games, but the standard Korean Starcraft 2 player is as interesting as watching a river carve out a valley over millions of years ... Many just want to care for the people playing the game. If they're both good and interesting, all the better, but I'd rather follow controversial Frank McShitty from Europe or NA, than stoneface Terminator, destroyer of worlds and bringer of westerner tears, Lee Hung Wung Doe from Korea. Having us play against the Koreans just brings the excitement of "can they do it this time maybe?", something which is quite common in other sports, when a weak team / country plays vs. the goliaths of the sport. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:32 Technique wrote: Well in football/ice hockey they also don't remove the top teams/players so that the bad team you are cheering for can win the league right? I still don't get it. All that im trying to say: If there is match between all time rank 1 football team vs all time rank 2 football team and they are currently rank 1&2. (SC2 = KOREA) And then there is match where your favorite team plays. I would watch that no matter how low level gameplay that is. (ofc not amateurs vs amateurs :D) | ||
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
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Shantastic
United States435 Posts
On April 04 2013 19:06 Emix_Squall wrote: He's not the greatest player but don't forget the guy is still considered pro and better than 99.8% of the players out there! That's one thing! Another one is the guy proved to have a pretty good understanding of the industry with his player and team manager background! Yes this guy isn't the best pro player but he understands this industry better than most other pros (even though they're better at the game). Bottom line: stop being morons and saying because a player isn't top 50 in the world he shouldn't say shit about e-sports, Being a good player and understanding an industry in terms of business are 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS !!! Edit: following you're stupid ass reasoning noone on TL's forum should even speak since noone achieved anything ... Dude, wtf. The guy literally said right there that he's new to the pro scene, and you're flaming the shit out of him for harboring one misconception. Manner up. Essentially Kinon, what many people tend to forget is that at the end of the day, any kind of professional competition is lucrative due to its entertainment value. If you're boring, no one will watch you, unless you're REALLY good. It doesn't matter if you're better than CatZ; unless you're the best, you'll always have fewer viewers than him because he's quite simply more entertaining than you are. Think of the Harlem Globetrotters compared to an NBA team. There is always a place in a sport/eSport for skilled entertainers. Plus CatZ knows just about everything about the player/team side of eSports there is to know from his versatile experience. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:37 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: I still don't get it. All that im trying to say: If there is match between all time rank 1 football team vs all time rank 2 football team and they are currently rank 1&2. (SC2 = KOREA) And then there is match where your favorite team plays. I would watch that no matter how low level gameplay that is. (ofc not amateurs vs amateurs :D) Yeah ok i get that with different leagues etc... i watch Feyenoord over the best club like Barcelona as well. But that's due to the whole hometown team thing and growing up with it... i think that's something that can't be compared with anything in a computer game really... And personally i pick players i cheer for based on their play styles, i was a big Moon fan in wc3tft, but never watched interviews or anything like that... just fan of his game. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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Gianttt
Netherlands194 Posts
Some people get certain feelings by playing a Korean, but it's just a person, who also has it's weaknesses, just like everyone else. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:53 Technique wrote: Yeah ok i get that with different leagues etc... i watch Feyenoord over the best club like Barcelona as well. But that's due to the whole hometown team thing and growing up with it... i think that's something that can't be compared with anything in a computer game really... And personally i pick players i cheer for based on their play styles, i was a big Moon fan in wc3tft, but never watched interviews or anything like that... just fan of his game. I don't even think this is a Korea vs Foreigner discussion. This is about people argueing that banning a player due to its origin is wrong. Its good to have leagues rise and grow the scene in both NA and EU, but if you make the mistake to ban a player due to its origin you do not only make eSport look like a joke you also do offend Koreans and Korea directly. I think Koreans do their best to welcome the foreign scene with open arms actually especially if someone like Naniwa/SaSe/Major gets over and has the right attitude to work hard and what are we doing? LETS BUILD UP LEAGUES AND BAN THEM, because for what reason? BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD. If any media would get grasp of it it would be the downfall of so called eSport within the foreign scene, because no major sponsor would EVER touch this field again. On April 04 2013 22:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Well, there definitely needs to be a big gsl-like league in NA and EUR, which isn't limited to nationality, but has to be played live. I think the teams should start coordinating more when it comes to opening team houses and start opening more houses around a certain area like in Seoul. First guy that gets what the problem really is. We don't have leagues here. We have major tournaments that go 2-4 days and pay out a big prizepool. Why does no one in NA for example have the money they usually put in a weekend tournament put into a league? Have players compete like in the German EPS and hand out payments/wins for single maps, bo3, bo5... overall tournament victory. You don't have to ban Koreans or artificially try to raise eSports, it will grow by itself if you give players a chance and places to compete in. The reason Koreans are coming over to major tournaments is because those tournaments are major in pricemoney. You can bet your ass if there was a big tournament in Korea that just goes for 2 days straight with a pricepool of 50000$ + foreign teams would be the first to pack their bags, doesn't even matter if the competition is nearly unbeatable, they would give it a shot. | ||
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nottapro
202 Posts
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Startyr
Scotland188 Posts
can make a decent living. Of course lessons can and should be learned from other sports. I will start by saying esports should not be limited to locking competitions to nationality.Players are competing for themselves and their teams and there can still be interesting story lines with and without nationality with out making it a limiting factor within the tournament structure. Think of the Olympics, something like the Jamaican sprint qualifier is most likely as tough if not tougher competition than the Olympic final itself. What is the difference in viewers? so then the Olympic system is actually unfair on some of the top competitors in the world, as it would be if Wcs went that route.(of course it does not really affect who actually ends up winning) There are Starcraft 2 events that do not feature the best in the world, though they are inevitably lower profile and get less viewers. Also with some notable events being outside of wcs, the top players may be less likely to attend them and then they will become filled with the players who can not manage to be in the wcs premier league. There will be lots of interesting storylines from this both with and without nationality being a factor. Already we can speculate on whos going to be playing where, even just thinking of tl/eg where are they going to place their players? Jaedong, Stephano, Demuslim, Idra, Huk to name a few players, it would make sense to split them into Na/Eu to give each of them the best chances. Does Tl try to guess where those players are playing and place their own players to get the best matchups? Throw in every other team including all of the koreans and there is a ton of interesting speculation and story lines before the events have even really started. We are already calling Na, it will most likely go to Polt or Stephano if they both play in Na and there is already an interesting past between those two. What if they do not end up facing each other and someone else takes it? and so on. This only touches the surface of the potential. This year is going to be awesome. | ||
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Emix_Squall
France705 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:49 Shantastic wrote: Dude, wtf. The guy literally said right there that he's new to the pro scene, and you're flaming the shit out of him for harboring one misconception. Manner up. Essentially Kinon, what many people tend to forget is that at the end of the day, any kind of professional competition is lucrative due to its entertainment value. If you're boring, no one will watch you, unless you're REALLY good. It doesn't matter if you're better than CatZ; unless you're the best, you'll always have fewer viewers than him because he's quite simply more entertaining than you are. Think of the Harlem Globetrotters compared to an NBA team. There is always a place in a sport/eSport for skilled entertainers. Plus CatZ knows just about everything about the player/team side of eSports there is to know from his versatile experience. New to the scene doesn't mean new to "life" ... It's the same in pretty much everything ... when you talk about football do you only value the opinion of Messi, Ronaldo and Zlatan or do you also listen to other people who proved they have knowledge of this industry? Same goes with everything! Someone can be new and still use his brain for basic stuff. Sometime reading topics turn into debates on the color of an orange between blind people and colorblind people.... If you want to talk an express an opinion on a topic, the very least you can do is to make sure you have basic knowledge of the subject ... if not just STFU ... no need to talk for the sake of talking! Edit: sry I'm getting off topic but it really pisses me off to read bullshit like "this guy isn't top 50, his opinion is shit". Specially when talking about people who bust their asses to grow this industry. | ||
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SgtCoDFish
United Kingdom1520 Posts
It's a bonus if I can watch a really good (Code S/Code A) player who can also speak a language I speak. Stephano is about the only one who's that level (roughly) and speaks English well enough to be understandable. I have favourite korean players, don't get me wrong. It's just nice if foreigners are competitive too. At the end of the day though, I don't really care too much if SC2 becomes totally Korean dominated. First and foremost I care about the games, and Koreans definitely deliver when it comes to that. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Why is this its own thread? I was expecting at least some new arguments from the OP to warrant a new thread. | ||
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Leeoku
1617 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On April 04 2013 23:01 nottapro wrote: Ya, give the Europeans and American's their own tournament. I wouldn't watch it, but they should definitely have one for the sake of people with overwhelming national pride. Agreed. They should just make exclusive tournaments for NA / EU if for no other reason than to put to bed the idea that people are actually interested in watching that shit (as if NASL didn't already prove that). | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
So yes if you're asking if there is an audience for foreign only tournaments, there is. I don't see why we can't have both. To me this is another thing we got wrong in Wol. We assumed more tournaments was good. It wasn't. It was an over-saturation of content which didn't help in the long run. Just the same we assumed that their was no audience for foreign only tournaments. The interest is there. Trust me on this. Someone has to give it a shot. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:53 Technique wrote: And personally i pick players i cheer for based on their play styles, i was a big Moon fan in wc3tft, but never watched interviews or anything like that... just fan of his game. Pretty much this. just fan of his game is the biggest factor. sc2 has nothing of this, truly absolutely nothing. Lets see a sc2 game without scoreboard, we all arent able to detect which player is playing. in wc3 is was very easy to detect due to his own "unique" playstyle (especially Moon, Zacard, Grubby, ToD, Sky, TH000, TeD, FoV and Lyn). | ||
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