EPTYou know, the important stuff we discuss.
Why do we want foreigners to compete with koreans? - Page 20
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
You know, the important stuff we discuss. | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:05 Luepert wrote: Because we're racist and want to see white people win rather than seeing the best players win. Welcome to the conversation when you want to add something constructive feel free to do so. On April 07 2013 04:37 zefreak wrote: How about people take the time to learn about a foreign culture that has a vibrant e-sports culture and a deep history of Starcraft, then maybe they would be interested in the individual koreans that make up the 'faceless korean' group. I understand casual sports fans and the need to cheer for your tribe and overcome the dreaded 'foreigner'. It still disgusts me, it's the worst elements of our history justified by its entertainment value. How about you take the time to understand what sport is. And understand what nationalism can do to promote a sport. We are at a crossroad in the starcraft scene. We either continue to do what we have done for the last 10 years and have another little "Brood War community" complaining about why they cant crow the scene. Or we actually start promoting Esport and that got nothing to do with cultural understanding but everything to do with National pride to get the casuals. Btw cultural understanding goes both ways tbh | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On April 07 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote: Welcome to the conversation when you want to add something constructive feel free to do so. How about you take the time to understand what sport is. And understand what nationalism can do to promote a sport. We are at a crossroad in the starcraft scene. We either continue to do what we have done for the last 10 years and have another little "Brood War community" complaining about why they cant crow the scene. Or we actually start promoting Esport and that got nothing to do with cultural understanding but everything to do with National pride to get the casuals. Btw cultural understanding goes both ways tbh It's almost as if NASL never happened! | ||
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
As I recall NASL was very popular in season 1 and 2 and had a decline as soon season 3 happen. So I got no idea what you talking about and btw ill say it again 130k viewers watched WCS EU and made it one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012. How many Korean players was there? | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On April 07 2013 04:37 zefreak wrote: How about people take the time to learn about a foreign culture that has a vibrant e-sports culture and a deep history of Starcraft, then maybe they would be interested in the individual koreans that make up the 'faceless korean' group. I understand casual sports fans and the need to cheer for your tribe and overcome the dreaded 'foreigner'. It still disgusts me, it's the worst elements of our history justified by its entertainment value. Let me go ahead and say that I'm only interested in the korean scene, was and always have been. I would trade all the shows we have now for a BW OSL / MSL setup. But lets talk about the what made it special why I think you're right and everybody else is as well. Coverage. Let's be honest here. We TL users don't get the same coverage as we used to. While you can still read winners interviews there are very few special interviews and translated shows. I'm talking translation of Old Boy and Bnet Attack and various other snippets. Korean neticens comment translations. TL had (and still has btw) some great translators who brought the korean scene to us but with SC2 everything changed considerably. Now it's in no way negative that the "foreign" scene copied some of the elements of the olden days and on top of that brought new ways to entertain. That's still what the majority is here for and that's perfectly alright. The scene takes itself and the "e-sports" topic to serious (way to serious) at times but even that just shows how big it got. What I think we lost, to put it into words, the charm of the korean broodwar scene is something that got rebuild in maybe a bit different way and sometimes just at a slow pace in the foreign scene. But ultimately once it's all set and done it's about what every individual wants out of SC2. There are so many factors at play, which I'm sure you're aware of as well. The fact that SC2 didn't take over the korean pro BW scene by storm. The back and forth with blizzard and kespa. The day9 dailies that actively seek out lower league players participation (the "what you CAN do not the what these machines are doing you will never be able to"). Community favourites invited to tournaments despite them often times bringing disappointing games. And so forth. Lots of things changed. Some for the better, some for the worse. Now I'm more interested in the highest level of competition. But it is the koreans own fault. If you want your players to have the same e-value as high as some of the other individuals, some camera closeup and hardcore good play wont be enough anymore. I mean cmon in this time and age, with such great teams, with such great players and such great history it should be time to a) think global and b) push your players to the front. Let them share. Translate for them. Connect with the scene. It's not exactly magic. | ||
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lazyitachi
1043 Posts
:S "Hey, ice hockey is too winter country dominated.. We need to make it snow in the equator so winter sports can grow" | ||
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mongmong
Korea (South)1389 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:12 lazyitachi wrote: Somehow I think white people would not complain if white people were winning instead of koreans winning. :S "Hey, ice hockey is too winter country dominated.. We need to make it snow in the equator so winter sports can grow" This is so true. As part of my job, I deal mainly with Europeans/Americans and one thing ive found in common is that they believe they should be better than other races in every aspect. Just saying ^^ | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:12 lazyitachi wrote: Somehow I think white people would not complain if white people were winning instead of koreans winning. :S "Hey, ice hockey is too winter country dominated.. We need to make it snow in the equator so winter sports can grow" You are comparing a single country to pretty much the rest of the world........... at least in terms of E-sports. | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
If I'm wrong about this, and Koreans actually do complain that the GSL needs more good foreigners in it, I retract this post. I don't speak Korean or live in Korea, so I don't actually know what they think. I'm making an estimate based on human nature, not stating what I think is a fact. | ||
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Branman
United States203 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:23 Salivanth wrote: You don't even need to assign a race to this trait. I doubt Koreans are complaining that only Koreans are doing well in GSL. People tend to not complain if their own country/race is winning. If I'm wrong about this, and Koreans actually do complain that the GSL needs more good foreigners in it, I retract this post. I don't speak Korean or live in Korea, so I don't actually know what they think. I'm making an estimate based on human nature, not stating what I think is a fact. There are many interviews with Korean pros who lament the success of the Koreans in SC2. The most recent that comes to mind was the TL IPL5 behind the scenes video with Liquid`Hero. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27251 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:18 mongmong wrote: This is so true. As part of my job, I deal mainly with Europeans/Americans and one thing ive found in common is that they believe they should be better than other races in every aspect. Just saying ^^ I really don't feel that is the case, I guess with such a large E-sports scene many of us just feel mystified that there's not a few foreigners who are of that level. Hardcore Korean dominance, with a little sprinkling of foreigners would be great to see. That said, for me the issue was never 'The Koreans', but more the fear of a dominance from Koreans overall, but with different names every week. Thankfully this doesn't appear to be the case, there's still a definable sense that, while most Koreans are more skilled than their foreign counterparts, there is still a top-tier of elite Koreans who are consistently playing in tournaments. It's hard to feel a kinship with players if you don't hear from them, they show up at an MLG, do well and then disappear again. Thankfully that's not been the case, and we get exposed to a bit of the personalities of the players and can pick our favourites without them rotating incessantly. | ||
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Branman
United States203 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:12 lazyitachi wrote: Somehow I think white people would not complain if white people were winning instead of koreans winning. :S "Hey, ice hockey is too winter country dominated.. We need to make it snow in the equator so winter sports can grow" A few things here. The "white people" comment really ignores all of the other races outside of Korea. From my experience as an American, we tend to get behind Americans competing internationally regardless of race. This goes all the way back to the 1930s when Joe Louis boxed internationally. For an example where Americans are unhappy that Americans were dominate at a sport, look at baseball. It used to be an olympic sport, but Americans won it all, so it was canned. Now Americans wish the world was better so we could continue to have baseball represented at the world's most prestigious sporting event because no one actually cares about the world baseball classic. For your winter sport example, the winter olympics got WAY more interesting when Jamaica showed up with a bobsled team back in 1988. | ||
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Jasiwel
United States146 Posts
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
Black and Latino and Asian do exist outside of korea you know... And most of the ones I know want to see foreigners win, white or not... (the only exception being a old-time BW addict, still playing BW at times) | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:18 mongmong wrote: This is so true. As part of my job, I deal mainly with Europeans/Americans and one thing ive found in common is that they believe they should be better than other races in every aspect. Just saying ^^ I find it extremely telling that you single out Europeans and Americans. Personally, I've found arrogance to be universal across all cultures. | ||
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
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tshi
United States2495 Posts
On April 07 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote: Man, I can't wait until WCS NA starts so we can end this circular discussion and just watch SC2. Then we can move on to important topics, like which caster pair is most bias and best, the clothing of the women at the event and who was rude to who by not GGing or shaking hands. You know, the important stuff we discuss. There was this video called TLOwange that got me into teamliquid. I remember in the video, Chill said that "If the Marauder boots change colors, we'll discuss that!" or something like that. I got to see how true that statement was after time. It's really crazy (to me) how .... I don't even have the right word -- just HOW this place can be. | ||
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achan1058
1091 Posts
On April 08 2013 11:37 Branman wrote: For an example where Americans are unhappy that Americans were dominate at a sport, look at baseball. It used to be an olympic sport, but Americans won it all, so it was canned. Now Americans wish the world was better so we could continue to have baseball represented at the world's most prestigious sporting event because no one actually cares about the world baseball classic. This BBC editor claims otherwise. I looked at the records on Wiki, and while US isn't sucking as hard as the editor claimed, they certainly weren't dominating. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22028316 | ||
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FireMonkey
Australia105 Posts
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
On April 08 2013 14:37 FireMonkey wrote: it's what people want to see, it's a race war, they want to see their favourite white guy supressing their korean invaders. Well... no... just no. This opinion is... trollish at best? | ||
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