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On April 06 2013 21:51 quebecman77 wrote:
im a 8 year broodwar player and i was someone who was alway saying let the best player in the world win , no matter where he from , reward skill , not where they are from , this was the offcial view about e-sport in broodwar , and let face it , in the end this was korean vs korean only.
and sadly the same start to happen in starcraft 2 , they are far less foreigner who can win vs korean , many top foreigner just stop playing , they give up , no one come after them . almost zero new blood , because you need money to live in this world and who want to enter it if you know you will win nothing ?
that cute to be the best of the best in a computer game but in the end MONEY of course motivate you .
TAKE THE KOREAN FOR THIS EXEMPLE , why they are not happy with the new blizzard league ? this clearly go with the mindset ''be the best in the world'' well no , they whine , they will get less money and they go full emo . they will even travel for go where the competive scene more easy for them.....
while the top foreigner are in this boat since 1-2 year now , they practice , get no money , win no tournament .
that would be about time from the people who want E-SPORT to grow to support it , are you guy blind ?
for e-sport to grow you need fans , for a fans the bond more strong when the guy come from your country , talk your langage and so on , THAT THE SAME IN ANY SPORT .
for grow e-sport you need people who dream about becoming a pro gamer , see people win tournament , get money and fame , you think people outside korea will want to become a pro gamer 2 year from now , when they see only korean win tournament after tournament ?
and honestly let talk about quality of the game and skill , top foreigner can make game fun to watch and some time way more fun to watch that watching a 1vs1 vs 2 korean , and honestly for most casual watcher they cant pick the skill diference from a top foreigner and a korean . that realy YOUR BEST REASON ??!
with your guy mindset of ''be the best of the best'' will kill e-sport and make starcraft 2 just like broodwar , mark my word because im going archive it and quote this topic 2 year from now ( hope this will be ok to bump a old post lol ? ) when the e-sport start to be only active in korea .
but this view dont help grow e-sport ,
Besides the obvious point that the grammar, spelling and general punctuation in this post are completely out of whack, I have to say: I enjoy watching 2 Koreans play. It's just that those of you who are so incredibly patriotic that you claim koreans are "emotionless', "faceless" and other terms.
I don't mind if you guys want an all American or whatever tournament, even though I'm definitely not going to watch it. Too boring with the low skill. Heck, an all EU tournament would be way better, though the level of play will never approach even GSL code A except for a select few players like Stephano. For those of you who say "top 8 all-korean finishes are boring!" Well then I say: you are just being close minded, because as someone who watches every GSL, the Korean scene is filled with both personality and skill.
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On April 05 2013 17:26 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? I'm sure some do, just Koreans practice far more efficiently.
And alot don't. However even Koreans admit that in order to train hard and become good, you need to live in a team house and be almost constantly immersed in the game, together with your team mates.
And a team house is a lot more than just a bunch of gamers from the same team living in the same apartment.
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Let's all remember, people: playing a video game for 14 hours a day does not entitle you to money. The point of tournaments is to reward winning, not effort. If you want foreigners to be rewarded based on how hard they try then go whine to Blizzard about paying salaries rather than prizes.
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I can not understand the people that want every tournament to be the same thing, same Korean faces, dominating.
You already have that, with GSL, Pro-league, and such.
What is wrong with having local tournaments? People that want to watch Koreans are not forced to watch those, and people that do not want to watch only Koreans can enjoy them.
Ah, yes:
On April 06 2013 22:15 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 21:51 quebecman77 wrote:
im a 8 year broodwar player and i was someone who was alway saying let the best player in the world win , no matter where he from , reward skill , not where they are from , this was the offcial view about e-sport in broodwar , and let face it , in the end this was korean vs korean only.
and sadly the same start to happen in starcraft 2 , they are far less foreigner who can win vs korean , many top foreigner just stop playing , they give up , no one come after them . almost zero new blood , because you need money to live in this world and who want to enter it if you know you will win nothing ?
that cute to be the best of the best in a computer game but in the end MONEY of course motivate you .
TAKE THE KOREAN FOR THIS EXEMPLE , why they are not happy with the new blizzard league ? this clearly go with the mindset ''be the best in the world'' well no , they whine , they will get less money and they go full emo . they will even travel for go where the competive scene more easy for them.....
while the top foreigner are in this boat since 1-2 year now , they practice , get no money , win no tournament .
that would be about time from the people who want E-SPORT to grow to support it , are you guy blind ?
for e-sport to grow you need fans , for a fans the bond more strong when the guy come from your country , talk your langage and so on , THAT THE SAME IN ANY SPORT .
for grow e-sport you need people who dream about becoming a pro gamer , see people win tournament , get money and fame , you think people outside korea will want to become a pro gamer 2 year from now , when they see only korean win tournament after tournament ?
and honestly let talk about quality of the game and skill , top foreigner can make game fun to watch and some time way more fun to watch that watching a 1vs1 vs 2 korean , and honestly for most casual watcher they cant pick the skill diference from a top foreigner and a korean . that realy YOUR BEST REASON ??!
with your guy mindset of ''be the best of the best'' will kill e-sport and make starcraft 2 just like broodwar , mark my word because im going archive it and quote this topic 2 year from now ( hope this will be ok to bump a old post lol ? ) when the e-sport start to be only active in korea .
but this view dont help grow e-sport , Besides the obvious point that the grammar, spelling and general punctuation in this post are completely out of whack, I have to say: I enjoy watching 2 Koreans play. It's just that those of you who are so incredibly patriotic that you claim koreans are "emotionless', "faceless" and other terms. I don't mind if you guys want an all American or whatever tournament, even though I'm definitely not going to watch it. Too boring with the low skill. Heck, an all EU tournament would be way better, though the level of play will never approach even GSL code A except for a select few players like Stephano. For those of you who say "top 8 all-korean finishes are boring!" Well then I say: you are just being close minded, because as someone who watches every GSL, the Korean scene is filled with both personality and skill.
Let me just ask you a question, how well is all this "personality" represented to people ouside of Asia?
Also, since skill doesn`t nececerely make games fun, not for everyone, anyway, I would definitely say you are close minded, and need to improve yourself, before starting to lecture others.
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Foreigners are a necessity.
If we don't see koreans crushing foreigners, we can't enjoy koreans beating foreigners
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On April 06 2013 23:35 eronica wrote:
Foreigners are a necessity.
If we don't see koreans crushing foreigners, we can't enjoy koreans beating foreigners
Seen to much roflstomps already, gets boring after a while.
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On April 06 2013 22:19 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 17:26 AxionSteel wrote:On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? I'm sure some do, just Koreans practice far more efficiently. And alot don't. However even Koreans admit that in order to train hard and become good, you need to live in a team house and be almost constantly immersed in the game, together with your team mates. And a team house is a lot more than just a bunch of gamers from the same team living in the same apartment.
Well that was my point  Someone like EmpireKas trains extremely hard, grinding out those ladder games by the bucket load, competing in those weekly cups and clanwars for his team, but you look at that, and the way KESPA teams with their professional coaches who you'd imagine get into every little detail of how to get the best out of their players, gaming houses etc operate, it's a world apart.
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i watch starcraft 2 because i enjoy watching it. i don't care about race only about good games with the very best players.
It sounds like some of the posters here have a subtle racial agenda. How are koreans emotionless faceless etc? Even saying stereotypical things like that is racist imo. If you want to see a league where white people dominate then don't watch sc2. Black people dominate basketball and i don't see people complaining about that!
MC has a great personality. MMA doing his hadoken etc. Plenty of emotional koreans.
Remember the king of kong, MKP losing in the gsl and seeing the emotions on his face etc. it was heartwrenching!
Look at stephano. Would stephano be as big as he was in 2011/2012 if the koreans weren't dominating? No he definitely wouldn't. The reason why stephano because a huge phenomenon was because he was a foreigner who could stand toe to toe vs the koreans. To those who say they don't want koreans at tournaments ...it just means u don't want another stephano because the only way another stephano can appear on the scene is if they have koreans to compare themselves to and compete against.
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On April 06 2013 22:15 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 21:51 quebecman77 wrote:
im a 8 year broodwar player and i was someone who was alway saying let the best player in the world win , no matter where he from , reward skill , not where they are from , this was the offcial view about e-sport in broodwar , and let face it , in the end this was korean vs korean only.
and sadly the same start to happen in starcraft 2 , they are far less foreigner who can win vs korean , many top foreigner just stop playing , they give up , no one come after them . almost zero new blood , because you need money to live in this world and who want to enter it if you know you will win nothing ?
that cute to be the best of the best in a computer game but in the end MONEY of course motivate you .
TAKE THE KOREAN FOR THIS EXEMPLE , why they are not happy with the new blizzard league ? this clearly go with the mindset ''be the best in the world'' well no , they whine , they will get less money and they go full emo . they will even travel for go where the competive scene more easy for them.....
while the top foreigner are in this boat since 1-2 year now , they practice , get no money , win no tournament .
that would be about time from the people who want E-SPORT to grow to support it , are you guy blind ?
for e-sport to grow you need fans , for a fans the bond more strong when the guy come from your country , talk your langage and so on , THAT THE SAME IN ANY SPORT .
for grow e-sport you need people who dream about becoming a pro gamer , see people win tournament , get money and fame , you think people outside korea will want to become a pro gamer 2 year from now , when they see only korean win tournament after tournament ?
and honestly let talk about quality of the game and skill , top foreigner can make game fun to watch and some time way more fun to watch that watching a 1vs1 vs 2 korean , and honestly for most casual watcher they cant pick the skill diference from a top foreigner and a korean . that realy YOUR BEST REASON ??!
with your guy mindset of ''be the best of the best'' will kill e-sport and make starcraft 2 just like broodwar , mark my word because im going archive it and quote this topic 2 year from now ( hope this will be ok to bump a old post lol ? ) when the e-sport start to be only active in korea .
but this view dont help grow e-sport , Besides the obvious point that the grammar, spelling and general punctuation in this post are completely out of whack, I have to say: I enjoy watching 2 Koreans play. It's just that those of you who are so incredibly patriotic that you claim koreans are "emotionless', "faceless" and other terms. I don't mind if you guys want an all American or whatever tournament, even though I'm definitely not going to watch it. Too boring with the low skill. Heck, an all EU tournament would be way better, though the level of play will never approach even GSL code A except for a select few players like Stephano. For those of you who say "top 8 all-korean finishes are boring!" Well then I say: you are just being close minded, because as someone who watches every GSL, the Korean scene is filled with both personality and skill.
And you are trying to rationally analyze something which is irrational. You need to accept that number of people who watch games (not only SC2) for the quality of games is minimal. In any popular sport rooting for local/national players, favourite teams always trumps the quality of play. Without foreign scene number of foreign viewers will be minimal. If you are ok with that, I see no problem, but then you cannot expect the scene to ever become anything bigger. Every country that matters in the big sports has national leagues (at least on the youth level) that are heavily restricted for foreign players by rule or practical obstacles. This is to ensure that there is enough young players to enter the sport. Being best in the world is process for many years of growth and keeping motivation for such a long period of time is hard. You do not need a lot of money necessarily, but you NEED stepping stones, where young player can have a goal to win national tournament before trying to become best in the world. Without this motivation nearly everyone will give up, and those that remain are not necessarily those that could become the best, there is no such correlation.
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What a defeatist attitude Catz has. Anyone CAN win any tournament. You just need to play the game very seriously 12+,hours every day for years and work your way through the hierarchy of the top teams. Koreans are better because they work harder and mroe efficiently. The talent that arises in korea is only at such a level because their culture/team structure promotes insanely hard work.
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On April 07 2013 00:24 mcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 22:15 xAdra wrote:On April 06 2013 21:51 quebecman77 wrote:
im a 8 year broodwar player and i was someone who was alway saying let the best player in the world win , no matter where he from , reward skill , not where they are from , this was the offcial view about e-sport in broodwar , and let face it , in the end this was korean vs korean only.
and sadly the same start to happen in starcraft 2 , they are far less foreigner who can win vs korean , many top foreigner just stop playing , they give up , no one come after them . almost zero new blood , because you need money to live in this world and who want to enter it if you know you will win nothing ?
that cute to be the best of the best in a computer game but in the end MONEY of course motivate you .
TAKE THE KOREAN FOR THIS EXEMPLE , why they are not happy with the new blizzard league ? this clearly go with the mindset ''be the best in the world'' well no , they whine , they will get less money and they go full emo . they will even travel for go where the competive scene more easy for them.....
while the top foreigner are in this boat since 1-2 year now , they practice , get no money , win no tournament .
that would be about time from the people who want E-SPORT to grow to support it , are you guy blind ?
for e-sport to grow you need fans , for a fans the bond more strong when the guy come from your country , talk your langage and so on , THAT THE SAME IN ANY SPORT .
for grow e-sport you need people who dream about becoming a pro gamer , see people win tournament , get money and fame , you think people outside korea will want to become a pro gamer 2 year from now , when they see only korean win tournament after tournament ?
and honestly let talk about quality of the game and skill , top foreigner can make game fun to watch and some time way more fun to watch that watching a 1vs1 vs 2 korean , and honestly for most casual watcher they cant pick the skill diference from a top foreigner and a korean . that realy YOUR BEST REASON ??!
with your guy mindset of ''be the best of the best'' will kill e-sport and make starcraft 2 just like broodwar , mark my word because im going archive it and quote this topic 2 year from now ( hope this will be ok to bump a old post lol ? ) when the e-sport start to be only active in korea .
but this view dont help grow e-sport , Besides the obvious point that the grammar, spelling and general punctuation in this post are completely out of whack, I have to say: I enjoy watching 2 Koreans play. It's just that those of you who are so incredibly patriotic that you claim koreans are "emotionless', "faceless" and other terms. I don't mind if you guys want an all American or whatever tournament, even though I'm definitely not going to watch it. Too boring with the low skill. Heck, an all EU tournament would be way better, though the level of play will never approach even GSL code A except for a select few players like Stephano. For those of you who say "top 8 all-korean finishes are boring!" Well then I say: you are just being close minded, because as someone who watches every GSL, the Korean scene is filled with both personality and skill. And you are trying to rationally analyze something which is irrational. You need to accept that number of people who watch games (not only SC2) for the quality of games is minimal. In any popular sport rooting for local/national players, favourite teams always trumps the quality of play. Without foreign scene number of foreign viewers will be minimal. If you are ok with that, I see no problem, but then you cannot expect the scene to ever become anything bigger. Every country that matters in the big sports has national leagues (at least on the youth level) that are heavily restricted for foreign players by rule or practical obstacles. This is to ensure that there is enough young players to enter the sport. Being best in the world is process for many years of growth and keeping motivation for such a long period of time is hard. You do not need a lot of money necessarily, but you NEED stepping stones, where young player can have a goal to win national tournament before trying to become best in the world. Without this motivation nearly everyone will give up, and those that remain are not necessarily those that could become the best, there is no such correlation.
Do soccer matches that include teams with only UK players get more views over there compared to say ManU/Arsenal or whatever?
Or in which sport you are referring to where second-rate domestic leagues are more popular than ones that include international players?
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On April 07 2013 00:39 StarBrift wrote:The talent that arises in korea is only at such a level because their culture/team structure promotes insanely hard work.
Which we shouldn't copy since it's not healthy.
I think the OP's idea is great.
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On April 07 2013 00:39 StarBrift wrote:
What a defeatist attitude Catz has. Anyone CAN win any tournament. You just need to play the game very seriously 12+,hours every day for years and work your way through the hierarchy of the top teams. Koreans are better because they work harder and mroe efficiently. The talent that arises in korea is only at such a level because their culture/team structure promotes insanely hard work.
And how did they get to that point ? By having time to develop that infrastructure. They did not have to exclude others as there were no "others" when they were developing their scene. Frankly I think the issue is not so much the whole foreign scene, more NA scene. EU scene seems to have enough infrastructure in place to possibly survive. NA one is getting less and less competitive as time goes on.
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Its such a mistake to think people watch because they want to see the best games when Idra gets 10k stream views at a time.
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On April 07 2013 00:43 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 00:24 mcc wrote:On April 06 2013 22:15 xAdra wrote:On April 06 2013 21:51 quebecman77 wrote:
im a 8 year broodwar player and i was someone who was alway saying let the best player in the world win , no matter where he from , reward skill , not where they are from , this was the offcial view about e-sport in broodwar , and let face it , in the end this was korean vs korean only.
and sadly the same start to happen in starcraft 2 , they are far less foreigner who can win vs korean , many top foreigner just stop playing , they give up , no one come after them . almost zero new blood , because you need money to live in this world and who want to enter it if you know you will win nothing ?
that cute to be the best of the best in a computer game but in the end MONEY of course motivate you .
TAKE THE KOREAN FOR THIS EXEMPLE , why they are not happy with the new blizzard league ? this clearly go with the mindset ''be the best in the world'' well no , they whine , they will get less money and they go full emo . they will even travel for go where the competive scene more easy for them.....
while the top foreigner are in this boat since 1-2 year now , they practice , get no money , win no tournament .
that would be about time from the people who want E-SPORT to grow to support it , are you guy blind ?
for e-sport to grow you need fans , for a fans the bond more strong when the guy come from your country , talk your langage and so on , THAT THE SAME IN ANY SPORT .
for grow e-sport you need people who dream about becoming a pro gamer , see people win tournament , get money and fame , you think people outside korea will want to become a pro gamer 2 year from now , when they see only korean win tournament after tournament ?
and honestly let talk about quality of the game and skill , top foreigner can make game fun to watch and some time way more fun to watch that watching a 1vs1 vs 2 korean , and honestly for most casual watcher they cant pick the skill diference from a top foreigner and a korean . that realy YOUR BEST REASON ??!
with your guy mindset of ''be the best of the best'' will kill e-sport and make starcraft 2 just like broodwar , mark my word because im going archive it and quote this topic 2 year from now ( hope this will be ok to bump a old post lol ? ) when the e-sport start to be only active in korea .
but this view dont help grow e-sport , Besides the obvious point that the grammar, spelling and general punctuation in this post are completely out of whack, I have to say: I enjoy watching 2 Koreans play. It's just that those of you who are so incredibly patriotic that you claim koreans are "emotionless', "faceless" and other terms. I don't mind if you guys want an all American or whatever tournament, even though I'm definitely not going to watch it. Too boring with the low skill. Heck, an all EU tournament would be way better, though the level of play will never approach even GSL code A except for a select few players like Stephano. For those of you who say "top 8 all-korean finishes are boring!" Well then I say: you are just being close minded, because as someone who watches every GSL, the Korean scene is filled with both personality and skill. And you are trying to rationally analyze something which is irrational. You need to accept that number of people who watch games (not only SC2) for the quality of games is minimal. In any popular sport rooting for local/national players, favourite teams always trumps the quality of play. Without foreign scene number of foreign viewers will be minimal. If you are ok with that, I see no problem, but then you cannot expect the scene to ever become anything bigger. Every country that matters in the big sports has national leagues (at least on the youth level) that are heavily restricted for foreign players by rule or practical obstacles. This is to ensure that there is enough young players to enter the sport. Being best in the world is process for many years of growth and keeping motivation for such a long period of time is hard. You do not need a lot of money necessarily, but you NEED stepping stones, where young player can have a goal to win national tournament before trying to become best in the world. Without this motivation nearly everyone will give up, and those that remain are not necessarily those that could become the best, there is no such correlation. Do soccer matches that include teams with only UK players get more views over there compared to say ManU/Arsenal or whatever? Or in which sport you are referring to where second-rate domestic leagues are more popular than ones that include international players?
Learn to read, I never said anything that you claim I said.
I said the local leagues are present in all countries where the scene for the particular sport is big enough and that the purpose is to get young players into the game. I said nothing about number of people viewing those small leagues. That was different point. Most people watching ManU/Arsenal games do not watch for the quality of play but because it is "their" team. And more people watch nation vs nation games than ManU/Arsenal vs whoever games.
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I'm a fan of watching the highest quality games and watching foreigners vs koreans because there is always the possibility of upsets. With that said I think it's better for the scene as a whole to isolate the regions because I think general viewers want to see the players and personalities they like remain competitive.
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Their is a dual problem with competitive gaming here. People want to to see compelling personalities (that means speaking English), and they want to see compelling games (that means a higher skill ceiling). Koreans give you half of that equation (incredible skill ceiling), players like IdrA give you the other half (compelling personalities). Only a few players give you both - guys like Grubby and TLO. But we all know Grubby and TLO aren't going to be competetive at the GSL, it just isn't going to happen during SCII, maybe for SCIII (to be released in 10 years or so!). It's a real conundrum! IF SCII loses NA and EU, paychecks go down, interest is down, and we are left waaaaaaaiting for SCIII. There has to be a smart solution that gives foreigners a chance to showcase skills, while still allowing Koreans to dominate their scene as well.
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As a fan of real sports like hockey (yes I'm Canadian) I will use that as an example.
During the regular season I primarily watch my home team play (Vancouver Canucks). I don't watch them because they are the best team, I watch them because I have come to care about the team and its players. I've gone to see some home games in person and I can share in the team experience with fellow locals.
In hockey there are local divisions of teams made up of teams that are geographically near each other. The winner of each division is guaranteed a playoff spot even if it pushes out one of lower placing teams within another division that may have had higher overall points total. 16 total teams in playoffs with 4 total divisions each conference east/west so 4 teams seeded are the division winners and next 4 are highest point totals per conference. Both conferences play until there is one winner in each conference that face off against each other for the Stanley cup.
Now during playoffs even if my team doesn't make it or is ousted in the first round I will watch as many games as I can to enjoy the best of the best play the sport has to offer.
The local competition keeps me interested all year long and the playoffs I want to see the best of the best and cheer for my team until they are out then decide who I will cheer for based on what I saw of the other teams up to that point.
I think almost all sports have a fanbase such as this and I believe a similar setup would benefit SC2.
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On April 04 2013 17:49 mrRoflpwn wrote:Show nested quote +This is what I think is the best solutions, in WCS 13 players are seeded from Korea and 2 players from EU and 1 player from NA. This means it is balanced between the regions compared to their skill. And also for Koreans not an handicap, and the need to fly over to compete. This is a troll post i think. I mean I cant really name more than 2 good europeans who can compete with the best koreans, and i cant name a single NA player that can but still, people want to see hometown favorites dude.
Stephano and Naniwa, and Scarlett(she just crushed Mvp in GSTL). Now, shut up troll
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Vatican City State582 Posts
On April 07 2013 00:51 sambo400 wrote:
Its such a mistake to think people watch because they want to see the best games when Idra gets 10k stream views at a time.
well, there are different types of fans, and thus people watch different things for different reasons; some people prefer action, others enjoy comedy. Idra's stream is like a comedy in a sense - people watch Idra, because he throws fits like a kid and cusses people out. If he never did that, nobody would even watch his stream.
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EPT
