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I never understood why the WCS world finals would only have like a 16 man bracket. I mean, yeah it is a million dollar tournament but the fact that there is such a strict limit to the number of players makes it difficult to distribute an appropriate proportion of spots for the finals to each respected region.
While I do not agree that the sample sizes from each region should be similar/same. Rather, I think that there should be a larger sample size of players to play around with in theory to test for future events, using accounting and such for plane tickets, expenses, etc.I, personally would have 32 go to the world finals, thus providing the scene as well as Blizzard and potential sponsors or industries looking to invest in esports a sizable tournament (the size of the last MLG), with the best players from everywhere in the world, all regions represented.
Now to go about how players should be able to qualify, the three regional finals is a good way to go about it, though I feel like there is way too much time between the first final where a race's results may or may not hinder on a future patch, or a player is doing well early on in the metagame, and then provides mediocre games months later in the overall finals. If only there was a sustainable way of having a more compact schedule for the tournaments.
Having the top three from each respective qualifier tournament is pretty much a given, but also having a wildcard standing board for the final 5 spots, based off of a certain player's results in each regional final. Now getting there is the confusing part, because they are using MLG, ESL, and GSL as mediums for the regional final qualifiers. It would work for MLG and ESL if they were to be able to restrict Korean players from joining the leagues, which is actually unfair by most people's standards. But instead, the large majority of Korean players are left with the short end of the stick because of the way the GSL works, having a sort of Major/Minor league system with Code S and Code A. But, since the GSL qualifications only include Code S, many players feel left out when they can't get the opportunity to play in Code S. Having a league like the NASL or tournament circuits like Dreamhack would be more ideal because players would have equal opportunity to test their talent against the best players and make a run at a spot at a live tournament or in group stages and a playoff bracket.
There is no way to be ethical to everyone here when there is limited resources as well as such an imbalance of talent across the board in Starcraft II.
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On April 05 2013 11:54 vultdylan wrote:
I never understood why the WCS world finals would only have like a 16 man bracket. I mean, yeah it is a million dollar tournament but the fact that there is such a strict limit to the number of players makes it difficult to distribute an appropriate proportion of spots for the finals to each respected region.
You get a much better story and can broadcast every game if you have only 16 players. I really like how the last MLG was just 32 players (would have been even better with group play into single elimination). Way better than the awful bloated open brackets of Dreamhack and previous MLG's.
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On April 05 2013 11:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:49 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them. It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. And what about guys like Lucifron, Vortix, Sen, Snute etc.. who pretty much only play the game, very minimal community interaction at all? Snute is on TL, so he automatically gets a huge following. Lucifron and Vortix basically rely on EU tournament exposure, plus a fairly big storyline from WCS EU. Sen has just been around for a long time...and Day9 cursed him.
None of that is personality, it's a story (sort of) and fuck loads of Koreans have those.
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On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming.
Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right?
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On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right?
Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst.
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On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst.
wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players?
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On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players?
Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont.
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On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont.
http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/am
http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/eu
http://www.sc2ranks.com/ranks/fea
Guess which region has by far the most games played.
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On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont.
It's well established that Koreans practice harder, it's not up for debate. Everyone (except you apparently) knows this.
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On April 05 2013 12:46 waylander_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont. Guess which region has by far the most games played.
Total games played means nothing, you want to compare how many games the pro players are playing per day.
Think of it like this, when you want to compare health ailments do you look at total rates of disease or look at how many people are affected per capita.
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On April 05 2013 13:02 TeslasPigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:46 waylander_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont. Guess which region has by far the most games played. Total games played means nothing, you want to compare how many games the pro players are playing per day. Think of it like this, when you want to compare health ailments do you look at total rates of disease or look at how many people are affected per capita.
I linked you GM league of each region....
Korea has the most games played by far
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On April 05 2013 13:02 TeslasPigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:46 waylander_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont. Guess which region has by far the most games played. Total games played means nothing, you want to compare how many games the pro players are playing per day. Think of it like this, when you want to compare health ailments do you look at total rates of disease or look at how many people are affected per capita.
I think this says it all. Number of Korean pros with wrist problems vs number of NA/EU pros with wrist problems.
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it's not about hardworkers deserving anything. It is about building a growing scene. Outside of TL nobody cares about the Koreans. Regionalism is an extremely strong way to attract new viewers and an extremely good way to foster local scenes (by enabling them to actually... exist).
I don't give 2 shits about the highest level of play. I want more people to play around me and to have fun with friends. The --highest level of play-- is only one of the many ways to get there, and not a particularly good one to outgrow our current state.
It boils down to - people that want to see the *highest level of play* (-> brood war like scene), and people that want to see the scene grow (more cs-ish like scene).
Needless to say I could get a lot more friends to play CS with me than BroodWar.
Does anybody think that by blaming foreigners to be *lazy fucks that do not deserve to win anything* we will get more players? I honestly think this attitude will only make people leave. Down the road, after 2-3 years we have Stephano and perhaps Naniwa (and Stephano wants to stop...). Let's ignore the BW days ahah.
It's time to try something new! (That is actually not new, but just the way successful (e)sports currently work...)
I sincerely hope that people that think that only the *highest level of play* matters realize they simply are a vocal minority, they are not the future of the scene but a stagnant pool of people.
Check out the streams/FB&Twitter followers, between Destiny/Catz/Incontrol/Idra/MaximusBlack, and let's stay... Startale Avenge (who would roll any of these guys hands down).
Lol, Destiny has 28000 tweeter followers while Life has 5000 (and he got propped up on Redbull main feed). GuMiHo, one of my favourites players has 941, and he is a downright beast. And I would cheer for Stephano over GuMiHo on simple virtue of being French, he represents much more to the French scene (and the rest of the world) than GuMiHo does. And I would cheer for ForGG over GuMiHo by virtue of being a ForGG fan and him joining Millenium later on.
It's not about the world as you wish it were, but the world as it is!
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On April 05 2013 13:08 waylander_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 13:02 TeslasPigeon wrote:On April 05 2013 12:46 waylander_ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 12:37 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:37 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 12:31 phodacbiet wrote:On April 05 2013 12:07 waylander_ wrote:On April 05 2013 11:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On April 05 2013 11:40 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in. Guys like White Ra, Stephano, Idra, Incontrol, Naniwa, Huk, Grubby, Demuslim and Catz might have personality sure. but there's no way you can argue that players like Kas, Happy, Sase, Nerchio, Snute, Lucifron, Vibe, Vortix, Sen, Morrow, Thorzain are these big time personalities because they're not, they're just as faceless and boring as people as any Koreans are. A lot of, if not the majority of top foreign players are equally are dull as personalities as the Alive's, Sniper's and Puma's of this world. Also guys like MC, Mkp, Polt, Parting, Mvp, DRG, Nestea, Violet and others have a lot of personality/story to them. The difference between the boring Koreans and the boring Foreigners is that most foreigners still speak English, which means you can understand them.It may seem like a small thing, but there's a large jump between watching a good player play, and watching a good player who you've watched commentate his ladder streaming. Oh, and the boring Koreans work 10x as hard and are the far better players. But seems like people are just fine with glorifying lazy foreigners. I mean, fuck hard work, right? Im pretty sure both work just as hard... but the atmosphere there is just better, hence deeper talent pool. Its like comparing an average TL reader to an average Bnet forum reader. The TL reader on average will be better because they are exposed to more build/strats/whines/ etc etc and will know more than the bnet forum readers who just complains about random stuff all day. Koreans living in korea will be able to speak with each other for builds and find the best most effective builds while foreigners have only access to replays/ each other hence why they are worse. Cause lets be serious here, if you get cheesed on KR, you learn how to hold it or else you stay in your league without improving. In EU/US, if u get cheesed, average player will blame the game and call the other guy a cheesy #$(*#. Hence in Korea koreans have better practice -> better, while US/EU chobo noob practice = worst. wait... you think foreigners practice remotely as hard as ESF or Kespa players? Just because you dont see them practice doesnt mean they dont. Guess which region has by far the most games played. Total games played means nothing, you want to compare how many games the pro players are playing per day. Think of it like this, when you want to compare health ailments do you look at total rates of disease or look at how many people are affected per capita. I linked you GM league of each region.... Korea has the most games played by far
You do know the only thing that a stat that says Korea has the most games played says is that Korea has the most games played right?
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On April 05 2013 10:47 Ravensong170 wrote:
People need to calm down. I've said this numerous time. People have so much hate for the NA/EU scene. Personally, I stop watching sc2 when its just Koreans, (unless Hero, Sage, MKP are involved) because they have no emotion. Literally they seem like robots to me. I watch for the story, for the excitement of that. When Vibe beat Flying at MLG (forget which one) pr when Scarlett came out of nowhere or when Idra 2-0 RoRo at WCS. Those are exciting. When X Korean, plays Y Korean, its not exciting to me.
Before I get flamed for not wanting the best games, that's not it, its just for me I watch Esports not for the game, but for the entirety. The story behind the games and the games.
So yea if all regions were equally good at sc2, then sure that's the ideal situation. But its not. WCS is providing a way for NON-Koreans to play in tournaments where they won't get rofl stomped immediately. And yes I am one of the people who believes that the level of play from NA/EU will be better.
People need to stop the hate and just admit that this is good for esports, i know that's hard for so many people to do because Blizzard is the one organizing this, but this is growth. And that's what everyone wants right?
and before everyone jumps on the bandwagon of the MC whine/complaining, the whole system hasn't happened yet and the only tournament that has started is the GSL. CHill and wait for the season to fully kick in.
Scarlett shows alot of emotions :D sure.
there are emotionless Koreans and "foreigners" and there are Koreans and Foreigners that are more of the ceremony type.
stop this bullshit with emotionless blablablal stupid nonsense.
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One word. Casuals. Its the casual fans the make up the majority of the esports and probably sports fanbase. Personally I will always hold my nose up to the notion that somehow by default, a top 8 Korean finish is boring....yeah, because flash vs idra would be a superior viewing experience over flash vs life because of the "storylines".
You'd think that oh I dunno, that the game itself
Would provide enough excitement?
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On April 05 2013 15:08 lannisport wrote:
One word. Casuals. Its the casual fans the make up the majority of the esports and probably sports fanbase. Personally I will always hold my nose up to the notion that somehow by default, a top 8 Korean finish is boring....yeah, because flash vs idra would be a superior viewing experience over flash vs life because of the "storylines". Meh.
Are you being sarcastic? I'm not really sure but your style of writing seems to go that way. If not: Ofcourse the casuals do make the biggest part of the fanbase which doesn't mean that there should be no pro level. No one asked for not host NA/EU tournaments or leagues, all we asked is simply not ban based on origin. It makes eSport look bad and no one would take it serious to begin with.
If you put up a tournament/league, don't make it MAJOR and don't make it give out 40000+ $ in one weekend. Make it like the GSL a longer tournament with a not so high price pool , so Koreans are not as attracted as they would for a 2 day tournament with tons of money. This way you don't have to ban anyone and its up to them if they want to compete or not. The main point point here is being. foreigners cannot sustain themselves and the risk is high, because there is no reward for taking the risk of being a progamer AKA earning money.
Well take a guess; Koreans take the same risk and EU/NA players are actually spoiled if it comes to sallary, Koreans get far less.
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On April 05 2013 15:14 Type|NarutO wrote:
one asked for not host NA/EU tournaments or leagues, all we asked is simply not ban based on origin. It makes eSport look bad and no one would take it serious to begin with.
As far as I know most sports have origin locked nationals...
Eurocup soccer teams are origin locked.
Non-locked events are usually once-in-a-few-years exception.
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On April 05 2013 16:15 freakhill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:14 Type|NarutO wrote:
one asked for not host NA/EU tournaments or leagues, all we asked is simply not ban based on origin. It makes eSport look bad and no one would take it serious to begin with.
As far as I know most sports have origin locked nationals... Eurocup soccer teams are origin locked. Non-locked events are usually once-in-a-few-years exception.
Are they origin locked, or are they locked for people that are not resident of the country? Because thats a huge difference. ESL Pro Series doesn't allow you to participate in it when your main residence isn't Germany, but it doesn't ban you because you are originally from Korea or any other country in the world. While its a small difference in its result, its a huge difference in setting the ruling.
If a Korean has to move and be a resident of the US to participate in this league, its his choice but he has one. If you simply prevent him from playing because his origin is Korea (would apply for Polt for example) you are doing wrong - its really just that simple. Its nothing short of discrimination based on ones race which would lead me to believe people would judge you as racist and be right about it.
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On April 05 2013 15:14 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:08 lannisport wrote:
One word. Casuals. Its the casual fans the make up the majority of the esports and probably sports fanbase. Personally I will always hold my nose up to the notion that somehow by default, a top 8 Korean finish is boring....yeah, because flash vs idra would be a superior viewing experience over flash vs life because of the "storylines". Meh. Are you being sarcastic? I'm not really sure but your style of writing seems to go that way. If not: Ofcourse the casuals do make the biggest part of the fanbase which doesn't mean that there should be no pro level. No one asked for not host NA/EU tournaments or leagues, all we asked is simply not ban based on origin. It makes eSport look bad and no one would take it serious to begin with. If you put up a tournament/league, don't make it MAJOR and don't make it give out 40000+ $ in one weekend. Make it like the GSL a longer tournament with a not so high price pool , so Koreans are not as attracted as they would for a 2 day tournament with tons of money. This way you don't have to ban anyone and its up to them if they want to compete or not. The main point point here is being. foreigners cannot sustain themselves and the risk is high, because there is no reward for taking the risk of being a progamer AKA earning money. Well take a guess; Koreans take the same risk and EU/NA players are actually spoiled if it comes to sallary, Koreans get far less.
These leagues aren't even being region locked. There are barriers to entry but I think we can expect to see many Koreans in NA. The risk between Foreigners and Koreans is not the same either. Yes top foreginer salaries are inflated but if you are a new player trying to break into the scene there are very few teams that will give you any support and no tournaments that aren't already being dominated by the top level players. On the other hand Korean gamers wanting to go pro can try out for a proteam where they can live for free while improving. I agree that the prize pool should be somewhat smaller for the foreign leagues but I think it is a very positive thing for the scene to have these regions somewhat protected.
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EPT
