EPTWhy do we want foreigners to compete with koreans? - Page 4
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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Emix_Squall
France705 Posts
On April 04 2013 20:36 Technique wrote: Stupid discussion. This is a competitive rts game... the best players play. The practice excuse is also bs, you are more than capable of getting good practice online with other pros and there are plenty foreigners who do nothing besides play this game... Sure and in 3 years there's nothing more for you to watch in english because all the competition is in Korea and you go whine that Blizzard doesn't help e-sport ... Kids with no basic understanding of business (money = content) should not talk ... | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
On April 04 2013 19:41 gruff wrote: That's only partly true. A foreigner will never be able to become better than the Korean's on his own, no matter how much effort he's willing to put in on his own. You need the right conditions, coaches, good practice partners, competeing teams that creates higher level competition and so on. You can't will that to happen as an individual. The only choice right now is to actually go to Korea and try to make it, which in itself have other big hurdles since the conditions still won't be ideal. Until the the whole foreign scene gets closer to Korea in the infrastructure, effort just isn't enough. Hence region locking to enable that to happen more easily. Some good points here, but as I see it, you are arguing for having Koreans in the EU/US WCS tournaments. This is assuming that the Koreans going to EU/US joint EU/US teams and train with them. As of now, the best EU/US players don't have good enough practice partners in EU/US and have to go to Korea to get them. Without good enough practice partners they will always get beaten by the Koreans. Since they are using the GSL-format with group plays in Ro32 and Ro16 of Code S and for the up/down matches you will get plenty of matches against the top Koreans, getting much needed experience to get better and able to beat them. | ||
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lifecanwait
96 Posts
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pOnarreT
155 Posts
On April 04 2013 20:51 Emix_Squall wrote: Sure and in 3 years there's nothing more for you to watch in english because all the competition is in Korea and you go whine that Blizzard doesn't help e-sport ... Kids with no basic understanding of business (money = content) should not talk ... For someone who immediately dismissed the post, you sure are active in replying the posts in here | ||
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Nachtwind
Germany1130 Posts
Another problem is that countrys like china/korea have a advantage in form of knowledge/technology of 1 generation to other countrys. They know how to train how to coach how the infrastructure should be. If now the sportsman have the same acceptance in the society, ecnomoy, and media like in the asian world there´s no doubt you would have people with equal skill and dedication to their work as you see in the asian world. | ||
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Sc2Wrath
United Kingdom58 Posts
I like to watch tournaments for the quality of play. If this was restricted, for me, it would ruin a lot of the fun. I enjoy watching the highest of the highest compete. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19230 Posts
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ultrakiss
97 Posts
Why do you think Chael Sonnen is fighting Jon Jones or Nick Diaz got a title shot? It's because they are good entertainment. The most successful athletes win games AND have some quality that makes you want to watch their games. In other sports, they have primetime specials, commercials, interviews, and articles which can help provide this personality even if the guy they're featuring is kind of boring. If Kevin Durant didn't have people marketing him he wouldn't be nearly as popular, since hes basically just a nice guy who is really good at bball. By creating a rivalry with lebron and putting him in funny commercials, and 10x the amount of people tune in to watch him. In Esports the same thing happens. Sure there are players who are popular and players who are just incredibly good. But look at what players are the most successful. Stephano, Idra, Huk. No doubt all of them were/are amazing players. This skill is definitely the most important thing. But they also have things about them that make them popular outside the game. Stephano is the rebel/rockstar, Idra formed rivalries and talked trash, Huk is just an entertaining guy. Do you think he gets to do his kingston HyperX stuff just based on talent? You also wont see guys like Catz getting those spots, regardless of how much fun their streams are. Its the same in Korea. The only difference is their hype machine is alot better, so they can manufacture compelling stories around boring players (like in basketball, football, etc). MVP won 5 championships, but I would say his popularity really skyrocketed after his wrists started falling apart. People will always watch a GSL finals, but his health struggles made me want to watch his whole tournament run. TL;DR I will always watch the best players. But if I'm going to watch players who aren't top tier give me a reason to support you over the other guy. The more emotionally invested I am in a player the more likely I am to watch games that I wouldn't otherwise. I want to be upset when my favorite player loses. I dont want to feel like the games I watch don't matter. | ||
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skyyan
United States74 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On April 04 2013 20:14 Xiron wrote: I'm not proving you wrong, but I woud love a source for your bald statement. Flash has been known to practice up to or even more than 12 hours a day. He deserves to win much more than an American player who puts a lot less effort in. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 04 2013 20:51 Emix_Squall wrote: Sure and in 3 years there's nothing more for you to watch in english because all the competition is in Korea and you go whine that Blizzard doesn't help e-sport ... Kids with no basic understanding of business (money = content) should not talk ... In English? I watch the game... not the mumbo jumbo around it. | ||
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bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
You have to give players in these regoins a reason to want to put the time and effort into it. Look at all the amature sports leagues in the US. There are kids putting in full time effot into these things because they see the potential at the end. Gaming needs to make itself known to this demographic. You need to appeal to the money and fame aspect if you want to grow it. To do this you're going to need leagues and tournaments that promote that. I feel that oine great example to show the difference in ideas and market penetration is that all over the world players aren't named by their region. They are called foreigners. The whole world of sc2 esports revolves around a Korean centric mentality. If you want to grow sc2 esports you have to look outside of Korea. If that means putting limits on nationality of players in certain competitions then that is what has to be done. In essence it means creating a minor league of sorts. you're still going to have the major world tournaments that will probably be dominated by Koreans for a while. But you also have to find a way to find the best talent around the world. Flooding all of the profitable leagues and tournaments with the same, mostly Korean, players hinders this. You have to get exposure. There are 5 year olds putting on football pads to try and start their careers. That is how you find the top talent. You have to saturate the market and be able to have a clear path on where it could end. right now sc2 is nothing in the US. the potential is there but I'm not sure if the resources are. Until there is a major tournament on prime time network tv in the US and using that to promote other events. you will never see the kind of talent coming out of the US that is coming out of Korea. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
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monkh
United Kingdom568 Posts
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
On April 04 2013 21:24 Technique wrote: In English? I watch the game... not the mumbo jumbo around it. And thx god you not making any decision or else the scene would be 5 nerds and a lolita doll On April 04 2013 21:24 Qikz wrote: Flash has been known to practice up to or even more than 12 hours a day. He deserves to win much more than an American player who puts a lot less effort in. And how do you know that? You don't again elitist attitude from the old age of the BW scene. You got no idea how much people train so provide some proof or be quite | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On April 04 2013 17:42 norlock wrote: This is what I think is the best solutions, in WCS 13 players are seeded from Korea and 2 players from EU and 1 player from NA. This means it is balanced between the regions compared to their skill. And also for Koreans not an handicap, and the need to fly over to compete. Korean vs korean is most boring shit ever. It may be high level but that's not what im looking for. I know what they can do. Why should I watch (all the time) korean vs korean if I already know that? It's like in football or ice hockey. Do you watch or cheer for the best team? Well, you might but most not. They have their own favorite players/teams. And I have to say that korean are damn boring (except MC), and shy. What players I cheer for? These two are most important things. 1. Nationality = Finland ( If there is player from Finland, I always cheer for him, no matter race or personality) 2. Players personality Meaning mostly this: Elfi, Welmu, Protosser, Naama, Satiini and Fuzer (most known players) + Grubby, He have awesome personality! If I would choose what I watch during tournaments: If there would be Taeja vs Flash or Oz vs Life (korean vs korean) vs Welmu vs ThorZain or Naama vs onerandomguythatnobodyknowns (foreign vs finnish) Answer is: Welmu vs ThorZain or Naama vs onerandomguythatnobodyknowns | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
Something new gets announced => people critisise everything and anything about it => it actually comes out => people realise how wrong they were when the viewership explodes. People said the same thing about HOTS before it came out, but look how it played out and the views the last Mlg got. The key lesson learned? Let it play out for a bit, observe carefully, then make a rational decision from there whether it is positive or requires change. | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:25 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Korean vs korean is most boring shit ever. It may be high level but that's not what im looking for. I know what they can do. Why should I watch (all the time) korean vs korean if I already know that? It's like in football or ice hockey. Do you watch or cheer for the best team? Well, you might but most not. They have their own favorite players/teams. And I have to say that korean are damn boring (except MC), and shy. What players I cheer for? These two are most important things. 1. Nationality = Finland ( If there is player from Finland, I always cheer for him, no matter race or personality) 2. Players personality Meaning mostly this: Elfi, Welmu, Protosser, Naama, Satiini and Fuzer (most known players) + Grubby, He have awesome personality! If you cheer for a bad team in football/ice hockey they also lose? What point are you trying to make? edit: Not saying those players you named are bad. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On April 04 2013 22:29 Technique wrote: If you cheer for a bad team in football/ice hockey they also lose? What point are you trying to make? edit: Not saying those players you named are bad. And I have no idea what you mean. | ||
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