EPTif your idea of having fun with sc2 is cheesing every game gl
How to get to masters, the metagame and you. - Page 2
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
if your idea of having fun with sc2 is cheesing every game gl | ||
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Pigge
Sweden88 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:26 Cocoabean wrote: A win is a win. If you're in Masters League, you're a Masters player. By definition, being a Masters player doesn't necessarily mean you will win any tournaments, which you won't if all you do is cheese. All it means is that you have the ability to cheese out ~98% of the SC2 ladder population, which shouldn't take away anything from the title itself. Lets not confuse "ability to win consistently in macro games" with "ability to win, period" i agree completely with this, but the goal i have in SC2 is to become a better player (occasionally to have fun), if you are a cheesy master player, then by all means you are a master player that just happens to win with cheeses. However i myself would feel unsatisfied and would probably find myself going through the motions each game instead of actually improving. This of course takes nothing away from your argument, you are 100% correct a cheesing master earned his title. But in my opinion and this is only valid for me and people that feel like me i would feel undeserving and unsatisfied. | ||
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dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20318 Posts
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Hezzina
United States48 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:36 dani` wrote: You basically abuse players who actually do not know how to scout & respond either, but just copy a specific build order template and that works fine when matched up against someone else who does the same. I think not being able to find out what your opponent is doing is one of the bigger tells that someone does not really know what and/or why he is doing what he's doing, so please by all means continue abusing it hardcore so hopefully those players learn it's vital to scout properly and learn how to respond to different situations... Sometimes scouting can work against you as well  . The prime example of a strong cheese would be in my build the ZvP where I even sometimes go as far as doing a hatch cancel to feed lies to my opponent and then show up with 6 roaches a well executed cheese is more intricate then just reading the 7rr build order and executing it, however I will make a new thread devoted to just my view on cheese and how it can be more intricate than most macro builds, and how many macro builds are cheese themselves! This thread is for the meta gamers which is slightly different from cheesing. | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:21 Hezzina wrote: Thread was originally intended to see what people on the ladder where reading the meta game and how they found their way to abuse it, my build was just supposed to be an example post then the thread got a bit side tracked And I 100% agree with the idea that meta gaming is just a "trick" to gain points because almost every game is decided before even going into it depending on person to person if you will win. But to me that's an exciting aspect of sc2 going into a game saying "This is my trap I want to make this person fall into it or die trying" as well as reading the meta game to give myself the advantage in 90% of games before they even start! Metagame isn't a trick to gain points, it is how the game should be played in a matchups. Tricks don't work against any player who have better scouting or do different opening. It could make you to master because NA has lower skill ceiling compares to others, like it won't help you get out of plat on KR server where has the same metagame lol | ||
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Hezzina
United States48 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:41 foxj wrote: Metagame isn't a trick to gain points, it is how the game should be played in a matchups. Tricks don't work against any player who have better scouting or do different opening. It could make you to master because NA has lower skill ceiling compares to others, like it won't help you get out of plat on KR server where has the same metagame lol that post was talking about "Meta gaming" which is the act of using the knowledge of the meta game. | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
The reason why you earn less respect in my book is that the amount of skill required to execute an allin is sometimes less than the amount of skill that it takes to hold an allin. Also you only have to play well the first couple of minutes instead of 15ish minutes with multiple bases and factors that require attention. | ||
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Taefox
1533 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:43 Hezzina wrote: that post was talking about "Meta gaming" which is the act of using the knowledge of the meta game. Ok but with better scouting the act of using the knowledge becomes useless trick :D Might work on somewhere people don't scout and blindly play. I hope you get my point I want to say your builds aren't nothing but trick. When you can go high Master on NA or even high diamond on KR I migh sorry for my posts. And thus about abusing the metagame, the tricks work in early game but what if the opponents go very strange and different builds ? it becomes a toss coin trick | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:27 Hezzina wrote: What is wrong with using "Cheesy builds" I have never quite understood why all the hate against them, I understand that they are easier to execute but they are also easy to stop when properly scouted... A good "cheese" needs to have misdirection, deceit and a follow up, as well as a very strong read on the meta, I believe that it can be looked at as just a different skill set than normal macro players use. The wrong is when we loose to it^^ | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
As for the poll, you're in masters league, so you're masters. You may decide which strategy to use. I can see what people mean when they say you're not really a masters' player, but i don't really think that's the best way to look at it. Being masters is defined by what league you are in. On the other hand, there is 'how good a player is'. Obviously, someone who got into masters by using the same cheese over and over again, is specialising in that particular cheese. Even if he's in masters league, i'd say that he's most probably overall a worse player then other masters' players or maybe even diamonds. He's a specialist. Not every build is cheesy in this; pressure builds are not, blind all ins are, all ins after scout are not. (my definition of cheese, please keep in mind when reading this comment. This definition may be totally different from others, please don't let it distract you) Such aggressive play is not really my style, and i don't care enough for ladder rank to abuse standard play. Edit: i think i misunderstood the thread slightly. It looked different because of the poll :/ I don't really abuse standard play, because i don't really know a lot of aspects of it. When i play, i just try some random things, which most probably end in a horrible execution of some sort. I don't hesitate to all-in when i feel i see a weakness in someone's defence. I feel like i'm understanding the game a bit better when i analyse replays with those situations in it. | ||
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budar
175 Posts
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Hezzina
United States48 Posts
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
Thats fine, but i would not call it "exploitation of the metagame". Its just using an old, yet still rather effective early all-innish build to collect some easy wins. *Edit* The poll makes no sense until you define the term "masters player". Blizzards Definition is beeing the top 3% of all ladder players. If you go by this definition, the answer is simple. If you are in masters league -> you are a "masters player". As you can beat 97% of the ladder players in a bo1-setting with a probability >= 0.51 | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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ibo422
Belgium2844 Posts
oh well, as long as you enjoy the games u play, all is fine! | ||
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