|
Hello, I go by the battle.net tag Fluid I just got off of a 49-12 ladder climb going from low diamond to 300 Point Masters and I would like to share my findings on how to climb the ladder and also have other input their opinions of What the current meta game is and how to abuse it for an easy time climbing the ladder.
First off those who do not know what a meta game is, it is what the majority of people are doing on the ladder at this time the meta game is determined by the players of the game more so then the units of the game as shown by the fact that a meta game can shift without the units changing. Inside of this thread we will be looking at the meta game of the ladder not tournaments. The ladder has a different meta game from tournaments since it is a series of best of 1'S instead of best of 3, 5, 7.
Disclaimers: This thread is about What the meta Game is and how to abuse it, no claims of imbalance in this thread just What most people are doing and when it is exploitable. As well this is a thread of how to abuse the meta game climbing the ladder using this method does not always make you a better player (such as the person who 6 pool'd Into Grandmasters) and as such does not guarantee that abusing these weakness will work in tournaments (as noted they are different meta games). Many of the builds that are able to abuse meta games can be considered "Hyper aggressive" (Cheesy) and often rely on misinformation and deceit.
Post rules: First include where your practice against the meta game is, what race you play, then state what the meta game is, and finally post how you believe that point can be exploited.
Fun Note: Those who watch this thread beginning to end should be able to see how the meta game has shifted overtime .
And the final brick of text my own post:
NOTE: This is meant to be an example of reading the current meta game and how I found a way to abuse it, this is not a "This is why my strategy is great thread", I wish to see how other meta gamers read the meta and how they react to it so that all gamers may share their knowledge.
My practice of the meta game came from high platinum all the Way through to mid masters during my several day ladder binge across 1/26 - 1/29. During this entire binge I was playing as zerg. The meta game I had noticed through all 61 games I played was that right now everyone is very very greedy. Such as protoss Nexus First, terran command center first, zerg 15 hatch...etc. How I have found to heavily abuse this greedy play. Against all 3 races I have been using the same opening of Overpool Into 7 roach Rush (I stop making attacking units after the First 7 roaches), the following is what it works for the meta of all 3 races.
Protoss: Many Protoss you just make them think you are going to expand by making 2 lings to stop a pylon and send out a drone to make it look like you Want to expand, from there send out your lings to control the watch towers and prevent scouting. Either the toss will take the bait Only build 1 cannon your roaches show up and g.g. or they feel like something is fishy or scout well throw down 2-3 extra cannons and they are able to defend which moves me Into step 2 (listed below).
Terran: Many terran are opening up either CC First or 1 rax Into CC very easy as long as you kill the first scv when your 7 roaches pop you can just walk Into their Natural walk past the bunker and kill almost every worker with just the 7 roaches. Marines are almost useless against roaches and the Hellions that every terran is making against zergs are useless. If they did not fast expand I use an overlord to get high ground vision snipe a supply depot and run past the bunker they have at the top. Assuming the terran doesn't gg I move Into step 2 (listed below).
Zerg: This one is probably the most straight forward and easy to mess with, almost all zergs are opening ling Into ling speed with banes, lings are terrible against roaches when the roaches kite so either A they vastly over produce spines to keep up with you kiting and running around their base, B they 15 hatched insta gg, C with Only lings you get to keep them on 1 base ling Which in step 2 makes Life very easy.
Step 2: All good hyper aggressive builds should still have a follow up to them in case all else fails so either you are playing from behind (most people will overreact expecting more units then the First 7 roaches so you arn't that far behind) or you will use this to get more ahead. How I do this is after my First 7 roaches I pull 2 drones off gas drop a hatch and begin drone production only resuming unit production when my 7 roaches are Dead and a counter attack is imminent. Which leads Into a pretty normal Game after.
This build got me from High plat - Mid Master MMR with an almost Perfect 4-1 win ratio (49-12) I play with around 100 apm and I find myself unable to play faster so I make up for my physical Talent at the Game by abusing the meta Game in order to level the field.
I am interested in seeing What you all see the current meta Game as and how to abuse it! (sorry for random capitals randomly strewed through main post accidently hit TLPD-ize long time TL reader first time thread maker ^_^!)
|
Using cheesy builds to climb ladder- useful since march 31 1998.
Learning how to abuse other players opening is only good if you can actually play the macro game at that level. As soon as players figure out how to defend your looking at losing a few 100 elo points. But hey, if you think getting that pretty star next to your name means you improved, by all means- go for it.
|
this is why this game have a lot of problems, people with a platinum skill level break into masters.
|
On January 30 2013 16:47 AngryPenguin wrote:
this is why this game have a lot of problems, people with a platinum skill level break into masters.
.... if ur masters, then ur masters one way or another.
|
On January 30 2013 16:42 Dagan159 wrote:
Using cheesy builds to climb ladder- useful since march 31 1998.
Learning how to abuse other players opening is only good if you can actually play the macro game at that level. As soon as players figure out how to defend your looking at losing a few 100 elo points. But hey, if you think getting that pretty star next to your name means you improved, by all means- go for it.
I agree and disagree, I agree as shown above that winning through very aggressive builds does not mean that you are a better player, however I disagree because if someone is able to win an entire high level tournament (including bo3 and bo5) without going into a single macro game isn't that person still the superior player?
|
Exclusively Meta-gaming people on ladder is not going to bring long-term success through mechanical/strategical development... that's why you only really see it done in BoX tournament scenarios when one guy tries to get into the other guy's head. For example-- even if you can get a good win rate on ladder by blind-countering immo sentry every time, it doesn't mean you are actually getting better.
|
On January 30 2013 16:50 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Exclusively Meta-gaming people on ladder is not going to bring long-term success through mechanical/strategical development... that's why you only really see it done in box tournament scenarios when one guy tries to get into the other guy's head.
That is the point of this thread to help us meta gamers be able to share information to be able to adapt and evolve as the meta switches! ^_^
|
On January 30 2013 16:47 AngryPenguin wrote:
this is why this game have a lot of problems, people with a platinum skill level break into masters.
but your ranking/points equates to your skillfullness. or at least your ability to win, which is all 'skill' is in a competitive game
|
While it's true that you are abusing the meta game to get you into masters, it doesn't really mean anything. Going from platinum to masters in three days isn't really possible unless you do it the way you did. And if you were to start playing standard again, as in not 7RR every game, your MMR would drop like a rock again, since your macro past the 5 min mark hasn't improved and your overall game knowledge ditto.
Your little trick isn't going to get you any further than mid masters, because that should be the level where people know how to react to the information they acquire through scouting. If you actually were to abuse the meta game to improve your ladder rank, it would a lot of sense if you had the fundamentals to back it up.
|
On January 30 2013 16:49 WikidSik wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 16:47 AngryPenguin wrote:
this is why this game have a lot of problems, people with a platinum skill level break into masters. .... if ur masters, then ur masters one way or another.
I agree. SC2 (like say, Magic: The Gathering) is a game about winning, not NR20.
(MTG actually has tournaments with prize money over $40k for first place, $20k for second, most of the same people win. It's all about making the most OP deck + taking into account the current meta.)
Anyway, great OP. You did a good job at analyzing other player's play style and using that to get into masters.
|
Nice thread, liked it and find it very interesting.
|
Macro game or not; win is a win. If you are masters you are masters.
|
When i was breaking into masters I kept on losing to the terrans who 2 raxed me every single game. I think i calculated it and out of like 16 games of pvt 14 of them were two rax. I lost pretty much all 14 of them by 1 gate fe. I said screw it, i'm not going to scout and go 3 gate expand. I went from diamond to masters in 1 day.
|
Should this be in SC2 Strategy section ? You have good point about ladder games but in general, you can't go far with it than mid master like Shartugal posted above
Your little trick isn't going to get you any further than mid masters, because that should be the level where people know how to react to the information they acquire through scouting. If you actually were to abuse the meta game to improve your ladder rank, it would a lot of sense if you had the fundamentals to back it up.
I don't think you could put the name ' metagame of ladder ' for this thread, since this is just like more a trick in ladder and people know it well like 2Rax 6Pool to GM. " Zerg ladder trick " soundz better and does fit better 
|
A win is indeed a win but ultimately you are just digging yourself into a hole, i went from platinum to masters league in like 2 days back when the 5 roach rush was all the rage, i then proceeded to get my ass handed to me constantly, seeing as my macro game was not on par with the level of competition i was facing, it's taken me roughly 2 or 3 seasons to drop down enough to feel like im competing fairly. I feel like winning with cheesy builds is ultimately fruitless seeing as you are learning nothing and only artificially raising your e-peen.
|
I also did well in EU ladder for a time doing exclusively roach rushes. Would probably still work.
Most players follow the metagame from the professional scene. I suppose they want to play the long epic games and come into them with an advantage from the professional's optimized build order.
Nothing wrong with that, but often times when these people lose to a roach rush they will dismiss it as the cheesing of a skilless faggot, and move on to the exact same thing in the next game. Not just ladder heroes like me, but even some profilic streamers I've watched who practice in order to get tournament success do this, considering a game to be a waste of time if the opponent cheeses.
That's just wrong, by cheesing you get better at cheesing, and by defending cheeses and adapting to them, you get better at defending cheeses. No game is a waste of time. In my opinion, you shouldn't consider yourself a better player than the cheeser if you don't have a way of dealing with one-base plays and simply take shortcuts to the late game.
|
On January 30 2013 17:16 foxj wrote:Should this be in SC2 Strategy section ? You have good point about ladder games but in general, you can't go far with it than mid master like Shartugal posted above Show nested quote +Your little trick isn't going to get you any further than mid masters, because that should be the level where people know how to react to the information they acquire through scouting. If you actually were to abuse the meta game to improve your ladder rank, it would a lot of sense if you had the fundamentals to back it up. I don't think you could put the name ' metagame of ladder ' for this thread, since this is just like more a trick in ladder and people know it well like 2Rax 6Pool to GM. " Zerg ladder trick " soundz better and does fit better
Thread was originally intended to see what people on the ladder where reading the meta game and how they found their way to abuse it, my build was just supposed to be an example post then the thread got a bit side tracked  And I 100% agree with the idea that meta gaming is just a "trick" to gain points because almost every game is decided before even going into it depending on person to person if you will win. But to me that's an exciting aspect of sc2 going into a game saying "This is my trap I want to make this person fall into it or die trying" as well as reading the meta game to give myself the advantage in 90% of games before they even start!
|
On January 30 2013 17:19 Tanukki wrote:
I also did well in EU ladder for a time doing exclusively roach rushes. Would probably still work.
Most players follow the metagame from the professional scene. I suppose they want to play the long epic games and come into them with an advantage from the professional's optimized build order.
Nothing wrong with that, but often times when these people lose to a roach rush they will dismiss it as the cheesing of a skilless faggot, and move on to the exact same thing in the next game. Not just ladder heroes like me, but even some profilic streamers I've watched who practice in order to get tournament success do this, considering a game to be a waste of time if the opponent cheeses.
That's just wrong, by cheesing you get better at cheesing, and by defending cheeses and adapting to them, you get better at defending cheeses. No game is a waste of time. In my opinion, you shouldn't consider yourself a better player than the cheeser if you don't have a way of dealing with one-base plays and simply take shortcuts to the late game.
I agree to a point, but i think the discussion at hand is about exclusively cheesing to reach a skill level that is effectively not your own.
Cheesing is a good skill toi have, but not a good skill to utilize in order to artificially inflate your league placement.
|
A win is a win. If you're in Masters League, you're a Masters player. By definition, being a Masters player doesn't necessarily mean you will win any tournaments, which you won't if all you do is cheese.
All it means is that you have the ability to cheese out ~98% of the SC2 ladder population, which shouldn't take away anything from the title itself.
Lets not confuse "ability to win consistently in macro games" with "ability to win, period"
|
On January 30 2013 17:24 Pigge wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 17:19 Tanukki wrote:
I also did well in EU ladder for a time doing exclusively roach rushes. Would probably still work.
Most players follow the metagame from the professional scene. I suppose they want to play the long epic games and come into them with an advantage from the professional's optimized build order.
Nothing wrong with that, but often times when these people lose to a roach rush they will dismiss it as the cheesing of a skilless faggot, and move on to the exact same thing in the next game. Not just ladder heroes like me, but even some profilic streamers I've watched who practice in order to get tournament success do this, considering a game to be a waste of time if the opponent cheeses.
That's just wrong, by cheesing you get better at cheesing, and by defending cheeses and adapting to them, you get better at defending cheeses. No game is a waste of time. In my opinion, you shouldn't consider yourself a better player than the cheeser if you don't have a way of dealing with one-base plays and simply take shortcuts to the late game. I agree to a point, but i think the discussion at hand is about exclusively cheesing to reach a skill level that is effectively not your own. Cheesing is a good skill toi have, but not a good skill to utilize in order to artificially inflate your league placement.
What is wrong with using "Cheesy builds" I have never quite understood why all the hate against them, I understand that they are easier to execute but they are also easy to stop when properly scouted... A good "cheese" needs to have misdirection, deceit and a follow up, as well as a very strong read on the meta, I believe that it can be looked at as just a different skill set than normal macro players use.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
