EPTHow to get to masters, the metagame and you. - Page 4
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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CamoPillbox
Czech Republic229 Posts
 + i got 3 times cause inactivity demote to diamond and i get 3 times back to masters so i guess i am masters player | ||
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
On January 30 2013 16:47 AngryPenguin wrote: this is why this game have a lot of problems, people with a platinum skill level break into masters. This opinion is invalid, if a masters player loses to a cheesy build, that is THEIR fault for not scouting/defending it. | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
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Fibbz
Germany62 Posts
What you are talking about is strategy and this is the most important thing in SCII, at least in my opinion. There are so many players out there, who only play what they have been seeing at pro level, that they can not decide, how to win against your hyper aggressive play. But beeing a masters player means to me, that you can easily do this. I see many zergs, who are not able to win games vs. me because they simply are not used to my playstlye, whether it is heavy aggression or long term macro game. Greetz | ||
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llIH
Norway2143 Posts
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Exarl25
1887 Posts
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cvgHuShang
Canada95 Posts
Abuse: Getting 2 immortals, 4-5 sentries and a ton of stalkers. Should be able to kill their 2 medivac push decisively and then counter attack for the win. Works for: Bronze-gm | ||
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[N3O]r3d33m3r
Germany673 Posts
it shouldn't really matter what happens at a very high level to us. I think this is the reason why so many people who constantly watch tournaments, high level replays and try it for themselves on ladder will constantly lose and rarely get higher. You have to paly according to your opponents, that is the whole purpose of this game. As the meta progresses, this guy will have to learn new things, he isn't putting all his eggs into a basket of some simple all-in | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
On January 30 2013 17:36 dani` wrote: You basically abuse players who actually do not know how to scout & respond either, but just copy a specific build order template and that works fine when matched up against someone else who does the same. I think not being able to find out what your opponent is doing is one of the bigger tells that someone does not really know what and/or why he is doing what he's doing, so please by all means continue abusing it hardcore so hopefully those players learn it's vital to scout properly and learn how to respond to different situations... I agree with this. most players have enormous holes in their game play, and if no one is there to stick things in the hole regularly, the holes never get fixed. cheesy or not, masters league needs people who poke holes. A 7rr is not difficult to defend in any match-up, so the fact that you are getting high winrates with it means there is a big problem, and you are part of the solution. | ||
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Scootaloo
655 Posts
If I gave a shit I'd go cannon rush to masters league, however, to me it would be meaningless, I'd be good doing one single thing that is far easier then the things my opponent would be doing, i.e. I would use less skill to get the same wins that they do. If choosing easy mode in a game or cheating is your preferred method of playing games, go join the Hezzina club of "Too lazy to actually learn to play but still wan't to brag about it.". | ||
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Bojas
Netherlands2397 Posts
On January 30 2013 23:25 cvgHuShang wrote: Metagame in pvt: 2 medivac timing Abuse: Getting 2 immortals, 4-5 sentries and a ton of stalkers. Should be able to kill their 2 medivac push decisively and then counter attack for the win. Works for: Bronze-gm Is this a joke? Terran can just not engage and drop you if you even attemt to move out...... -.- | ||
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SlixSC
666 Posts
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Hezzina
United States48 Posts
On January 30 2013 23:25 cvgHuShang wrote: Metagame in pvt: 2 medivac timing Abuse: Getting 2 immortals, 4-5 sentries and a ton of stalkers. Should be able to kill their 2 medivac push decisively and then counter attack for the win. Works for: Bronze-gm Holy crap someone finally posted their interpretation of the meta game :D | ||
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Kong John
Denmark1020 Posts
Now this thread is about whether a consistent cheeser is truly a masters player or not. This is up to how you define the term "a masters player", there is only a subjektive answer. Discussing the current meta game and how to exploit it through cheese is much more interesting. To have fun winning an extra game here and there because you are able to outthink your opponent based on a statistik, is a very fun and valid strategy. There are few things more satisfying than to play against the same person a couple of time (in any game) and then suddently read him and win just because you read him through his play (or in the case of random ladder opponents, through the tendensy of the metagame.) I like to make abusive builds myself. When i play zerg against P, i sometimes open 12 pool through double extractor trick. Then build 3 zerglings right away when you pool is done and then just continue drone production, taking you nat and third. This is map dependent, but when protoss player see a pool first, they often assume its a 14 pool and build the nexus before the cannon and lose since the lings are significantly earlier than usual. Ive only tried this on the diamond to low masters level, but it puts a lot of protoss players off. Also this isn't much of an all in since you put your nat down shortly after the lings pop. Also the protoss player will sometimes put down 2 cannons and/or put down the gateway before the nexus. Sometimes they also have to wall off a cancel certain buildings, delaying their economy even more so you don't have to play from behind in the midgame. edit: didnt quite get it to make sense in the first attempt | ||
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Hezzina
United States48 Posts
On January 31 2013 01:16 Kong John wrote: Big mistake to include that pool. Now this thread is about whether a consistent cheeser is truly a masters player or not. This is up to how you define the term "a masters player", there is only a subjektive answer. Discussing the current meta game and how to exploit it through cheese. To have fun winning an extra game here and there because you are able to outthink your opponent based on a statistik. There are few things more satisfying than to play against the same person a couple of time (in any game) and then suddently read him and win just because you read him through his play (or in the case of random ladder opponents, through the tendensy of the metagame.) I really like to make abusive builds myself. When i play zerg against P, i sometimes open 12 pool through double extractor trick. Then build 3 zerglings right away when you pool is done and then just continue drone production, taking you nat and third. This is map dependent, but when protoss player see a pool first, they often assume its a 14 pool and build the nexus before the cannon and lose since the lings are significantly earlier than usual. Ive only tried this on the diamond to low masters level, but it puts a lot of protoss players off. Also this isn't much of an all in since you put your nat down shortly after the lings pop. Also the protoss player will sometimes put down 2 cannons and/or put down the gateway before the nexus. Sometimes they also have to wall off a cancel certain buildings, delaying their economy even more so you don't have to play from behind in the midgame. I agree and have removed the poll since I made another thread about cheesing to hopefully get this one back on topic, interesting build I was using overpool drone to 14, 6 lings on pool finish for the same reason could normally be quite disruptive against the protoss without really committing. for those who care about the poll this was the final results Poll: Masters through meta gaming = masters player? A win is a win, being in masters makes you a master player. (117) 54% Being in masters doesn't mean you are a masters player. (91) 42% A "cheesy" player can never be a masters level player. (9) 4% | ||
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Kong John
Denmark1020 Posts
On January 31 2013 01:23 Hezzina wrote: I agree and have removed the poll since I made another thread about cheesing to hopefully get this one back on topic, interesting build I was using overpool drone to 14, 6 lings on pool finish for the same reason could normally be quite disruptive against the protoss without really committing. for those who care about the poll this was the final results Poll: Masters through meta gaming = masters player? A win is a win, being in masters makes you a master player. (117) 54% Being in masters doesn't mean you are a masters player. (91) 42% A "cheesy" player can never be a masters level player. (9) 4% Smart move :D The early lings also give great utility for denying scouting and can be used to make a runby if he cancels the wall or move the probe from the gap in the wall. Often people only make one cannon that doesnt cover the building nexus. Sometimes they are even forced to cancel but you almost always get some probes and lost mining time out of it. | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
On January 30 2013 16:49 Hezzina wrote: I agree and disagree, I agree as shown above that winning through very aggressive builds does not mean that you are a better player, however I disagree because if someone is able to win an entire high level tournament (including bo3 and bo5) without going into a single macro game isn't that person still the superior player? What high level tournament was won by a player who never played and won a macro game? Answer: None...or at least not since the game was ultra new. Is using a cheese build to rank up the ladder new? Answer: No, and neither is a post like this. Did you get to mid masters because the build is amazing? Answer: No, you got to mid masters because prior to that people make mistakes like not scouting enough. Or they over react to cheese, etc. Playing ultra cheesy 'can' rank you up in the ladder significantly. I would ask however what good it is actually doing you other then giving you a shiny masters star. Will it make a stream popular? No, because as soon as everyone see's that all you do is cheese, or if you stop cheesing you lose, unless your some bazaar personality that everyone watches for some odd reason you won't have people watching quickly. Will it win you tournaments? No, because top level players will quickly realize 'that's the guy that just cheeses' and a top level player playing conservative is still going to out macro/beat someone who is exclusively a cheeser. | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
I view the skillset you're developing as somewhat similar to trying to play LoL up to the 1800-1900 level. Does it require game-sense/knowledge? Sure. Does it require a modicum of technical skill? Eh, sure. It doesn't require the symphony of mental discipline, coordination, awareness and execution that higher level Starcraft requires, and because of that I don't value the pursuit. I do respect it as an accomplishment though. | ||
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