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On December 23 2012 05:19 NotRandoMNamE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 05:08 Xanbatou wrote:
friendly fire fungal would be a terrible idea. so would friendly fire banelings. it would make zerglings completely useless. fungal needs to bigger addressed, but not like that. that would be like hellions doing friendly fire. :-/ I'm sure that most terrans would love to get hellions to do friendly fire if in exchange fungal did friendly fire...
Really?
Hellions friendly fire is almost as ridiciolous as banegling friendly fire, I can't imagine using helions in bigger numbers with friendy fire. Fungal on other hand is "manually targeted" ability so friendly fire here is more reasonable.
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On December 23 2012 06:38 keglu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 05:19 NotRandoMNamE wrote:On December 23 2012 05:08 Xanbatou wrote:
friendly fire fungal would be a terrible idea. so would friendly fire banelings. it would make zerglings completely useless. fungal needs to bigger addressed, but not like that. that would be like hellions doing friendly fire. :-/ I'm sure that most terrans would love to get hellions to do friendly fire if in exchange fungal did friendly fire... Really? Hellions friendly fire is almost as ridiciolous as banegling friendly fire, I can't imagine using helions in bigger numbers with friendy fire. Fungal on other hand is "manually targeted" ability so friendly fire here is more reasonable.
Fungal requiring more skill is something most people would sacrifice an arm and a leg for. Hellion FF would be a lot less punishing compared to fungal FF.
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On December 23 2012 06:29 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 06:09 Ario wrote:
I think there are a lot more possibilities for friendly fire in HoTs. One cool semi-related idea which may be hard to implement would be to make the viper's abduct work kind of like Pudge's meat hook from Dota. It would make it really hard to use well but it would add a cool dynamic where the other players could try to block abducts with other units. That'd be really cool, but, theres really no opportunity to ever block. From a realistic standpoint, they're flying so ground units can't really block an attack from above unless you just kinda make it that way -- in which case grabbing anything from a gigantic ball would be impossible in the later game when vipers actually come out and see use.
I agree, I'm not really sure how that could be implemented successfully. Right now though, abduct is too similar to fungal and FF in that there isn't really much you can do to stop the other player from abducting your units. It makes for really frustrating and boring play on the receiving player, cause all they can do is just watch their units die.
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Everything friendly fire, marines with 25% chance of hitting a buddy, zerglings can now go berserk and attack allied buildings
how am I not working for Blizzard yet
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On December 23 2012 06:41 Ario wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 06:29 rd wrote:On December 23 2012 06:09 Ario wrote:
I think there are a lot more possibilities for friendly fire in HoTs. One cool semi-related idea which may be hard to implement would be to make the viper's abduct work kind of like Pudge's meat hook from Dota. It would make it really hard to use well but it would add a cool dynamic where the other players could try to block abducts with other units. That'd be really cool, but, theres really no opportunity to ever block. From a realistic standpoint, they're flying so ground units can't really block an attack from above unless you just kinda make it that way -- in which case grabbing anything from a gigantic ball would be impossible in the later game when vipers actually come out and see use. I agree, I'm not really sure how that could be implemented successfully. Right now though, abduct is too similar to fungal and FF in that there isn't really much you can do to stop the other player from abducting your units. It makes for really frustrating and boring play on the receiving player, cause all they can do is just watch their units die.
The projectile thing makes it possible, but there's still the consideration that if your opponent already dodged the fungal, they've already punished you for badly aiming on the fungal. The front-end units that potentially get hit as a result are generally killed by the first volleys of WM, Tank, or Hellbat fire and adding the friendly fire wouldn't do very much, if anything at all.
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All AoE should be friendly fire
Although Banelings shoudl get a relatively cheap upgrade at lair tech that makes other friendly banelings immune from the splash.
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Honestly having FF seems awful for most unite, people here just like it because it'd change up the game.
If collosus had FF it'd be so stale as any collosus play would be zealot free. Archos and ultra links, what? Army compositions would be so counter-intituative.
Keep the way it is, fungal FF I wouldn't mind however.
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On December 23 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 06:41 Ario wrote:On December 23 2012 06:29 rd wrote:On December 23 2012 06:09 Ario wrote:
I think there are a lot more possibilities for friendly fire in HoTs. One cool semi-related idea which may be hard to implement would be to make the viper's abduct work kind of like Pudge's meat hook from Dota. It would make it really hard to use well but it would add a cool dynamic where the other players could try to block abducts with other units. That'd be really cool, but, theres really no opportunity to ever block. From a realistic standpoint, they're flying so ground units can't really block an attack from above unless you just kinda make it that way -- in which case grabbing anything from a gigantic ball would be impossible in the later game when vipers actually come out and see use. I agree, I'm not really sure how that could be implemented successfully. Right now though, abduct is too similar to fungal and FF in that there isn't really much you can do to stop the other player from abducting your units. It makes for really frustrating and boring play on the receiving player, cause all they can do is just watch their units die. The projectile thing makes it possible, but there's still the consideration that if your opponent already dodged the fungal, they've already punished you for badly aiming on the fungal. The front-end units that potentially get hit as a result are generally killed by the first volleys of WM, Tank, or Hellbat fire and adding the friendly fire wouldn't do very much, if anything at all.
Maybe give the viper abduct hook thing a health bar but a very low attack priority.
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On December 23 2012 06:54 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Honestly having FF seems awful for most unite, people here just like it because it'd change up the game.
If collosus had FF it'd be so stale as any collosus play would be zealot free. Archos and ultra links, what? Army compositions would be so counter-intituative.
Keep the way it is, fungal FF I wouldn't mind however.
If ultralisk had friendly fire and four ultras would attack a marine together. The marine would die but the ultras would cause about 400 friendly fire damage to each other.
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On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though.
If I remember correctly lurker did friendly fire to allies but not to self. So it would not necessarily be a wise choice in a 2v2 3v3 4v4 but in 1v1 it was always fine.
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The Viper's cloud thing is "friendly fire" in the way that it affects your own units as well, but it doesn't deal damage. Honestly Zerg wouldn't work with friendly fire very well because of all there melee units. Banelings doing friendly fire would obviously be too terrible, fungal growth... maybe, but it would be a big nerf.
I wouldn't mind Zerg having some friendly fire, but maybe with a new units. It wouldn't work very well currently.
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zerg should deal some sort of friendly fire to its units. Perhaps fungal's affecting adjacent lings would help out Ts and Ps.
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adding FF to any unit is a nerf; thus the unit or race deserves some other buff to be on par with its previous version. I like that, it increases the gap between a perfect engagement and a bad one.
would probably not be possible to implement in good way for archons though. blings colossus and fungal i however believe in making FF
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Banelings friendly fire?? Do you guys even play this game? That would make them the worst unit in the game by far... Fungal friendly fire i agree, as long as colosus get friendly fire as well.
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Units currently capable of friendly fire:
High Templar
Siege Tank
Raven
At this late stage in SC2's life, adding friendly fire to Zerg/Protoss AE units would probably be too difficult to balance. Caster AE friendly fire is acceptable, since the player has direct control over where the spell is cast, so don't see an issue with adding Fungal to that list.
Siege tank is a different story. It is the only unit that can be used against its own army. Good usage of Mule Drops and Infested Terran into tank lines can net kills with the cost of energy. A good strategy I've seen some pro Zerg players vs heavy tanked up defenses is to burrow infestors into range, toss a few infested terrans on tanks and/or clumped marines before the start of an engagement. The Zerg player gets free kills/damage from tank friendly fire and uses up the first volley to allow their army to close the gap with less losses.
Terrans also have to fight their own AI with good target micro. Otherwise tanks will always attempt to fire at the closest target with no regard to friendly fire. Wouldn't mind seeing what the game would look like without tank friendly fire, but I doubt Blizzard would change this fundamental weakness, it was inherited from its BW predecessor afterall.
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Not all units should do friendly fire, because in some cases it simply removes any viability it might have. However, the fact that colossi are a ranged unit with an area of effect attack, yet can't be changed to deal friendly fire shows (imo) they are badly designed, because it's just mindless high damage output without any real drawbacks in positioning and such. Blizzard has to manually add counter units for the colossus, like the viking and the corruptor, because otherwise there's no reason not to have many of them in your army.
I think the most pressing issue here is the oracle's time warp spell. It creates a huge sphere on the battle field that mysteriously affects only enemy forces. I think it looks weird and unintuitive and it makes the spell more mindless in a way. I suppose a danger might be that it would make zealot armies not feasible to use in conjunction, but they could always let Charge cancel the effects of time warp, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal. I think it's simply that Blizzard wants spells that don't have drawbacks.
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On December 23 2012 03:34 Zzoram wrote:
Zerg should have some kind of friendly fire, even if it isn't much. Maybe make Fungal friendly fire.
Zerg already has units that die quickier than any race so i see no reason. Maybe if it only touched broodlings/locusts.
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FF on fungal would be a cool idea,
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On December 23 2012 03:03 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though. HoTS is not BW
which is a bad thing
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On December 23 2012 06:53 cekkmt wrote:
All AoE should be friendly fire
Although Banelings shoudl get a relatively cheap upgrade at lair tech that makes other friendly banelings immune from the splash.
That wouldn't work. You can't have banelings killing your own zerglings, it would make them useless in TvZ and ZvZ ling-baneling wars would be completely retarded.
As for Fungal, the problem is not as much the damage as it is the root. You could not fungal battles between ranged units and ling-banelings without preventing most of them to attack while still being shot at by the enemy.
I'm all for a fungal change, just this one seems very bad.
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EPT
