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On December 24 2012 09:01 Picklebread wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 08:58 KaiserCommander wrote:On December 24 2012 08:49 Glurkenspurk wrote:On December 24 2012 08:45 KaiserCommander wrote:
Personal metagame ideas:
FF on Colossi to force Protoss players to calculate the ground army-Colossi rate
FF on Baneling to force zerg player smarter and more tactical use of Banelings; they'll be forced to think in cost/benefit relation using them along with zerglings or creating micro cycles like "Baneling spread", this would stimulate the use of Mutalisk or even Hydras; this is coming with a Baneling health buff
FF on Fungal Growth to force zerg players to have punishment in reckless FG shots and changing FG mechanics to any of this options:
-Making FG a missile cast OR
-FG no more rooting units, instead slowing movement speed
In my opinion Archons must remain the same
Reviewing each race "big guy" ground unit (Colossus for Protoss, Thor for Terran and Ultralisk for Zerg) I notice a couple of things in my Terran biased mind:
-Thor have not possibilities of retreating for disadvantageous battles (Colossus have the climbing terran capability and Ultralisk have a ridiculous bulkyness)
-Thor have not splash damage capabilities (Both Ultralisk and Colossus have splash damage)
-Thor is the only unit with a nearly useless cost/benefit upgrade with 250mm Cannon (While Colossus gets Extended Thermal Lance and Ultralisk have Chtinous Plating, both considered mid/late game essential upgrades)
-Thor is the only "big guy" unit with anti-air capabilities, however it's also the same "big guy" unit without relevant sinergy to
another units to make that anti-air capabilities worthy
-Thor have the lowest DPS
I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE THOR FULFILL THE SAME ROLES AS ULTRALISK OR COLOSSUS, I'M TRYING TO MAKE THOR A SINERGIC USEFUL UNIT, so my ideas for the mighty Thor are...
-Make the Thor attack with a 3-5 linear splash damage to ground units along with a +1 range upgrade
OR
-Make the 250mm Cannon upgrade a 5x5 matrix AoE similar to the used by the Odin in the campaign (with obvious damage adjust to metagame)
I think those changes will clean some imbalance issues with recent patches...
Friendly fire banelings would literally break the game. Good luck fighting terran bio when you blow up half of your zerglings. Give reason and examples, Baneling have not a risk using it besides miss detonation, it will only change the matter that if you pair them with the speedling they'll with actually die; that's why more bulky Banes will compensate and paired with air/long range units will do better The reality is, You would surround the terran army with zerglings and then the banelings come in and after it hits 1 marine half your zerglings will die because they die in 1 hit to banelings. Thats ridiculous.
So, you're using an "a+move" engagement to get your point? FF in banes will mean more brains using them and that will mean a more balanced attention distribution between attacking zerg and defending terran... Still not giving examples or scenarios, just random comments
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On December 24 2012 09:07 KaiserCommander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 09:01 Picklebread wrote:On December 24 2012 08:58 KaiserCommander wrote:On December 24 2012 08:49 Glurkenspurk wrote:On December 24 2012 08:45 KaiserCommander wrote:
Personal metagame ideas:
FF on Colossi to force Protoss players to calculate the ground army-Colossi rate
FF on Baneling to force zerg player smarter and more tactical use of Banelings; they'll be forced to think in cost/benefit relation using them along with zerglings or creating micro cycles like "Baneling spread", this would stimulate the use of Mutalisk or even Hydras; this is coming with a Baneling health buff
FF on Fungal Growth to force zerg players to have punishment in reckless FG shots and changing FG mechanics to any of this options:
-Making FG a missile cast OR
-FG no more rooting units, instead slowing movement speed
In my opinion Archons must remain the same
Reviewing each race "big guy" ground unit (Colossus for Protoss, Thor for Terran and Ultralisk for Zerg) I notice a couple of things in my Terran biased mind:
-Thor have not possibilities of retreating for disadvantageous battles (Colossus have the climbing terran capability and Ultralisk have a ridiculous bulkyness)
-Thor have not splash damage capabilities (Both Ultralisk and Colossus have splash damage)
-Thor is the only unit with a nearly useless cost/benefit upgrade with 250mm Cannon (While Colossus gets Extended Thermal Lance and Ultralisk have Chtinous Plating, both considered mid/late game essential upgrades)
-Thor is the only "big guy" unit with anti-air capabilities, however it's also the same "big guy" unit without relevant sinergy to
another units to make that anti-air capabilities worthy
-Thor have the lowest DPS
I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE THOR FULFILL THE SAME ROLES AS ULTRALISK OR COLOSSUS, I'M TRYING TO MAKE THOR A SINERGIC USEFUL UNIT, so my ideas for the mighty Thor are...
-Make the Thor attack with a 3-5 linear splash damage to ground units along with a +1 range upgrade
OR
-Make the 250mm Cannon upgrade a 5x5 matrix AoE similar to the used by the Odin in the campaign (with obvious damage adjust to metagame)
I think those changes will clean some imbalance issues with recent patches...
Friendly fire banelings would literally break the game. Good luck fighting terran bio when you blow up half of your zerglings. Give reason and examples, Baneling have not a risk using it besides miss detonation, it will only change the matter that if you pair them with the speedling they'll with actually die; that's why more bulky Banes will compensate and paired with air/long range units will do better The reality is, You would surround the terran army with zerglings and then the banelings come in and after it hits 1 marine half your zerglings will die because they die in 1 hit to banelings. Thats ridiculous. So, you're using an "a+move" engagement to get your point? FF in banes will mean more brains using them and that will mean a more balanced attention distribution between attacking zerg and defending terran... Still not giving examples or scenarios, just random comments
Are we talking say a tank target fire shoots a baneling clump in the middle and there is a chain reaction where all the banes blow up because the ones in the middle did and they friendly fired the other ones or what?
Maybe this could work if you go bane - ranged units but making it so that speedlings cant pair with them is just ridiculous.
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I honestly don't see why other races should get more FF. The game is about the completely unique races. Where would the fun be, if for example zerg and protoss health worked the same way as terran? (I.e. being able to repair, but not selfhealing)
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On December 24 2012 09:07 KaiserCommander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 09:01 Picklebread wrote:On December 24 2012 08:58 KaiserCommander wrote:On December 24 2012 08:49 Glurkenspurk wrote:On December 24 2012 08:45 KaiserCommander wrote:
Personal metagame ideas:
FF on Colossi to force Protoss players to calculate the ground army-Colossi rate
FF on Baneling to force zerg player smarter and more tactical use of Banelings; they'll be forced to think in cost/benefit relation using them along with zerglings or creating micro cycles like "Baneling spread", this would stimulate the use of Mutalisk or even Hydras; this is coming with a Baneling health buff
FF on Fungal Growth to force zerg players to have punishment in reckless FG shots and changing FG mechanics to any of this options:
-Making FG a missile cast OR
-FG no more rooting units, instead slowing movement speed
In my opinion Archons must remain the same
Reviewing each race "big guy" ground unit (Colossus for Protoss, Thor for Terran and Ultralisk for Zerg) I notice a couple of things in my Terran biased mind:
-Thor have not possibilities of retreating for disadvantageous battles (Colossus have the climbing terran capability and Ultralisk have a ridiculous bulkyness)
-Thor have not splash damage capabilities (Both Ultralisk and Colossus have splash damage)
-Thor is the only unit with a nearly useless cost/benefit upgrade with 250mm Cannon (While Colossus gets Extended Thermal Lance and Ultralisk have Chtinous Plating, both considered mid/late game essential upgrades)
-Thor is the only "big guy" unit with anti-air capabilities, however it's also the same "big guy" unit without relevant sinergy to
another units to make that anti-air capabilities worthy
-Thor have the lowest DPS
I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE THOR FULFILL THE SAME ROLES AS ULTRALISK OR COLOSSUS, I'M TRYING TO MAKE THOR A SINERGIC USEFUL UNIT, so my ideas for the mighty Thor are...
-Make the Thor attack with a 3-5 linear splash damage to ground units along with a +1 range upgrade
OR
-Make the 250mm Cannon upgrade a 5x5 matrix AoE similar to the used by the Odin in the campaign (with obvious damage adjust to metagame)
I think those changes will clean some imbalance issues with recent patches...
Friendly fire banelings would literally break the game. Good luck fighting terran bio when you blow up half of your zerglings. Give reason and examples, Baneling have not a risk using it besides miss detonation, it will only change the matter that if you pair them with the speedling they'll with actually die; that's why more bulky Banes will compensate and paired with air/long range units will do better The reality is, You would surround the terran army with zerglings and then the banelings come in and after it hits 1 marine half your zerglings will die because they die in 1 hit to banelings. Thats ridiculous. So, you're using an "a+move" engagement to get your point? FF in banes will mean more brains using them and that will mean a more balanced attention distribution between attacking zerg and defending terran... Still not giving examples or scenarios, just random comments
Then please, explain how with friendly fire they will be usefull at all?
Solo groups will get sniped easely, put them in your army and they will blow it up.
The only useful thing left is baneling mines.
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On December 24 2012 09:07 KaiserCommander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 09:01 Picklebread wrote:On December 24 2012 08:58 KaiserCommander wrote:On December 24 2012 08:49 Glurkenspurk wrote:On December 24 2012 08:45 KaiserCommander wrote:
Personal metagame ideas:
FF on Colossi to force Protoss players to calculate the ground army-Colossi rate
FF on Baneling to force zerg player smarter and more tactical use of Banelings; they'll be forced to think in cost/benefit relation using them along with zerglings or creating micro cycles like "Baneling spread", this would stimulate the use of Mutalisk or even Hydras; this is coming with a Baneling health buff
FF on Fungal Growth to force zerg players to have punishment in reckless FG shots and changing FG mechanics to any of this options:
-Making FG a missile cast OR
-FG no more rooting units, instead slowing movement speed
In my opinion Archons must remain the same
Reviewing each race "big guy" ground unit (Colossus for Protoss, Thor for Terran and Ultralisk for Zerg) I notice a couple of things in my Terran biased mind:
-Thor have not possibilities of retreating for disadvantageous battles (Colossus have the climbing terran capability and Ultralisk have a ridiculous bulkyness)
-Thor have not splash damage capabilities (Both Ultralisk and Colossus have splash damage)
-Thor is the only unit with a nearly useless cost/benefit upgrade with 250mm Cannon (While Colossus gets Extended Thermal Lance and Ultralisk have Chtinous Plating, both considered mid/late game essential upgrades)
-Thor is the only "big guy" unit with anti-air capabilities, however it's also the same "big guy" unit without relevant sinergy to
another units to make that anti-air capabilities worthy
-Thor have the lowest DPS
I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE THE THOR FULFILL THE SAME ROLES AS ULTRALISK OR COLOSSUS, I'M TRYING TO MAKE THOR A SINERGIC USEFUL UNIT, so my ideas for the mighty Thor are...
-Make the Thor attack with a 3-5 linear splash damage to ground units along with a +1 range upgrade
OR
-Make the 250mm Cannon upgrade a 5x5 matrix AoE similar to the used by the Odin in the campaign (with obvious damage adjust to metagame)
I think those changes will clean some imbalance issues with recent patches...
Friendly fire banelings would literally break the game. Good luck fighting terran bio when you blow up half of your zerglings. Give reason and examples, Baneling have not a risk using it besides miss detonation, it will only change the matter that if you pair them with the speedling they'll with actually die; that's why more bulky Banes will compensate and paired with air/long range units will do better The reality is, You would surround the terran army with zerglings and then the banelings come in and after it hits 1 marine half your zerglings will die because they die in 1 hit to banelings. Thats ridiculous. So, you're using an "a+move" engagement to get your point? FF in banes will mean more brains using them and that will mean a more balanced attention distribution between attacking zerg and defending terran... Still not giving examples or scenarios, just random comments
So you don't understand the difference between whole army a-move and "surround" with lings and then run in with banelings?
Time to use your own brain, before telling others to do so...
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On December 23 2012 03:05 Gladiator333 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. Indeed, I don't know why it isn't currently. Design blunder?
Sarcasm? Or do you really hate the baneling? 
More than 2 banelings would be a complete waste, cause once two explode, the other 50 will die automatically. Doing 0 dmg.
And you could not use zerglings with banelings. So you must choose between a high number of lings, or 2 banes and nothing more.
Actually, I'm gonna call shenanigans on this whole thing.
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WAHT THE FUCK IS YOUR GUYS PROBLEM?!
just make banelings friendly fire WITH THE EXCEPTION it doesn't affect other banelings. so this way you have to take better care of your zerglings but banelings are still far from being useless.
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On December 24 2012 09:54 Epx wrote:
WAHT THE FUCK IS YOUR GUYS PROBLEM?!
just make banelings friendly fire WITH THE EXCEPTION it doesn't affect other banelings. so this way you have to take better care of your zerglings but banelings are still far from being useless.
Why do you yell this? That passionate about breaking the game, huh?
Like. Mutas glaive attacks would be dumb, hitting friendly mutas. And I will fly one corruptor into your medivacs and watch thors FF down all your medivacs. etc etc.
Also, what use will you have of hellions? One almost-ling-surround and the hellions will burn themself down. Or you come in with two rows of hellions (like 2-3-4 hellions into the mineral line), and the hellions in the back shoot down the front ones.
The current hunter seeker missile. You use it, I run my targeted unit closer to your units, and you're the one losing your army, not me.
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Maybe make Baneling FF but at reduced damage to own units, otherwise it would be totally unbalanced. Maybe like 50% or 25% it could be even less. Maybe tanks could too make reduced damage to own units... or do they already?
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On December 24 2012 09:54 Epx wrote:
WAHT THE FUCK IS YOUR GUYS PROBLEM?!
just make banelings friendly fire WITH THE EXCEPTION it doesn't affect other banelings. so this way you have to take better care of your zerglings but banelings are still far from being useless.
Posting this again in case you have any answer at all before yelling your ass off:
Then please, explain how with friendly fire they will be usefull at all?
Solo groups will get sniped easely, put them in your army and they will blow it up.
The only useful thing left is baneling mines.
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you need hellions to kill their allies stuff like seige tanks.
only then you will see less, ling ling helion
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Baneling friendly fire is stupid because of the way the unit is designed. I wouldn't mind seeing it do less splash damage depending on the radius though. Units like the collosi should do AOE just because they are currently low micro units and it would make what is traditionally an a-move unit into something that requires more skill to use much like a reaver.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Tank, hellion and HSM
Colossus, Storm, and Mothership Vortex
Fungal and banelings
Seems fair?
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On December 24 2012 10:42 lichter wrote:
Tank, hellion and HSM
Colossus, Storm, and Mothership Vortex
Fungal and banelings
Seems fair?
No.
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On December 24 2012 10:47 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 10:42 lichter wrote:
Tank, hellion and HSM
Colossus, Storm, and Mothership Vortex
Fungal and banelings
Seems fair? No.
I agree it should be
Tank
Storm
Fungal and banelings
=D
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On December 24 2012 10:49 NotRandoMNamE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 10:47 Cokefreak wrote:On December 24 2012 10:42 lichter wrote:
Tank, hellion and HSM
Colossus, Storm, and Mothership Vortex
Fungal and banelings
Seems fair? No. I agree it should be Tank Storm Fungal and banelings =D
Banelings causing ff is the stupidest idea ever, fungal would be fine by me.
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Less friendly fire makes the game easier, which is obviously the design philosophy going from bw to star 2, don't really see why colossi, fungal, banes etc. don't do splash besides dumbing down the game. I would honestly not be shocked if blizzard is gonna remove more ff (tanks) from the game in lotv or even going into starcraft 3, I mean we want those casuals right?
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On December 24 2012 10:52 Lorch wrote:
Less friendly fire makes the game easier, which is obviously the design philosophy going from bw to star 2, don't really see why colossi, fungal, banes etc. don't do splash besides dumbing down the game. I would honestly not be shocked if blizzard is gonna remove more ff (tanks) from the game in lotv or even going into starcraft 3, I mean we want those casuals right?
Did Lurkers did FF? No they didn't cause they weren't designed to.
Did Muta's in BW FF? No they didn't cause they weren't designed to.
You cannot give units that were not designed to friendly fire since it would completely and utterly break them.
Should have ranted against blizzard when they designed Starcraft 2.
But suddenly 2year and a half later banelings suddenly need to do FF. This simply looks like just another knee jerk reaction to the current metagame where zerg is imbalanced. Just look at the OP...
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On December 24 2012 10:52 Lorch wrote:
Less friendly fire makes the game easier, which is obviously the design philosophy going from bw to star 2, don't really see why colossi, fungal, banes etc. don't do splash besides dumbing down the game. I would honestly not be shocked if blizzard is gonna remove more ff (tanks) from the game in lotv or even going into starcraft 3, I mean we want those casuals right?
For Archons, banelings and Ultras it's quite simple. It would be stupid. low range units that deal splash are bound to attack units of their own kind, no matter how well you can play. I guess, that's why the Archon and the mutalisk didn't have FF on their splash in BW either...
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Yeah....tanks deal massive FF.....storm? Not so much.
Its a little unfair, Banelings and fungal should have FF too, so Zergs have to be more careful using them.
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EPT
