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On December 23 2012 17:51 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 09:50 HollowLord wrote:On December 23 2012 09:44 Grumbels wrote:On December 23 2012 09:42 HollowLord wrote:
Marine bullets should do friendly fire if you fail to properly train your soldiers. Also if you leave your marines too close to the front line there's a chance they'll get spooked and open fire when someone nudges them from behind. Marines do friendly fire as you can target your own units. Nah but I mean like, if a marine walks in front of another marine while he's shootin some zergles. ok sure, and all the lings or zealots when they try to surround a unit, kick each other out of their way and deal some damage to each other while scrambling to the opponent/target oh wait neither of those are really applicable to this game. zzzz
way to catch the sarcasm!
so many ridicilous suggestions in this thread lol
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because terran has no melee units
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On December 23 2012 03:36 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though. lurker does not FF... or am i becoming senile o.O baneling should FF, lol zerg tears once again ^_^
You are both right.... It didn't FF your own units, but in team games it did FF your ally's units.
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Friendly fire should, as always, be designed to fit the appropriate units and no more. Even in Broodwar, attacks like those of the Reaver and the Lurker did not do friendly fire, even though both really should have, given the type of damage inflicted by the Siege Tank and by Psionic Storm. They didn't because of balance reasons. Reavers would have become often extremely weak alongside the rest of the Protoss army due to the way a badly placed Scarab could do far more allied damage than enemy damage, and Speedling/Lurker would have been completely nonviable because the Lurkers would slaughter the Zerglings. SC2 is the same. Fungal honestly is never used in range of your own units, so having it deal friendly damage is kind of ridiculous. It wouldn't do anything in terms of balance. Colossus are an interesting question: would it increase skill if they dealt friendly damage, but had a higher damage output to make up for it? Siege Tanks would most likely be acceptable even without dealing friendly damage, and it would certainly make them stronger.
In any case, it's not about "more" or "less" friendly fire. It's about where it stands with each individual unit.
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god this is what i was thinking today . with all frustrations is cause to play PVP for the simple fact you cant do many builds cuz 1 base colossi allin is pretty good vs most of expo builds . i was thinking . what if colossi would hit friendly fire ? imagine blink stalkers would blink into colossi and they would hit themselfs
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I don't care if they make more things friendly fire, or if they remove psionic storm from FF, but siege tanks and nukes should definitely stay.
The one thing that bothered me in SC1 is that reavers didn't have friendly fire. Those things were so damn strong. If you compare them to a baneling they're so ridiculous — scarabs shoot from like 8 range, were invincible and faster, cheap and didn't cost gas (although the reaver cost 4 banelings), and each one does 3–4x the damage vs light and 4–5x the damage vs non-light of a baneling. I understand protoss has DTs and zealots and archons (not even really applicable), but considering the power of the unit I don't think that should matter.
I don't think there's much dispute that most splash damge should do friendly damage (except banelings), so I'll talk about 2 related topics.
1. Personally I'm a fan of having siege tanks act like in Starcraft where there was a extremely small delay between the siege tank shot and the damage. The lack of this is what is what people call smart targeting. Also realize that they didn't remove that trait from [all] units in Starcraft 2, they removed it from the siege tank, but kept/introduced it to/for other units such as the roach and I think the hellion and colossus, but I don't remember exactly.
I also think that Hydralisk should very possibly lose it's projectile in favor of an instant attack, since it's a poor/underused unit (even in HOTS I'd say, although it's kinda mandatory vs protoss). It would make more sense to do it for roach (a close range non-projectile non-splash attack — why should it have a delay?), but it wouldn't change much and they don't really need a buff in damage. Marines and void rays don't have a delay, but while void rays make perfect sense being a beam attack and higher tier unit, I personally think marines could maybe also have a delay; with their fast rate of fire it won't affect things much, but makes marines less of a kill-all unit.
The reason why I liked this is because it made it important (or more important) to space out siege tanks instead of not thinking about it much or at all, as well as to even micro-manage siege tank firing more.
2. Another thing that would be good is adding an "attack ground" command (for splash damage units), which I think Warcraft 2 had. They might have intentionally kept it from subsequent games for some reason. Obviously cloak is the biggest problem with introducing this. While one could make cloak/burrowed immune to splash, that does make a considerable change to the game such as hellions or banelings intentionally or accidentally hitting cloaked/burrowed units via either attacking a visible enemy unit, or a friendly unit (neither applicable to baneling since it's the one unit in the game that does have "attack ground", although it's hardly an attack).
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On December 23 2012 03:34 Zzoram wrote:
Zerg should have some kind of friendly fire, even if it isn't much. Maybe make Fungal friendly fire.
Fungle would be a great idea, and very funny 
should get implemented.
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On December 23 2012 09:32 TommyP wrote:
All AOE should have friendly fire i think
I agree...
AOE fails its own definition in SC2, but then again banelings come to my mind and I'm like O_O and then --__--
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In campaign there is tank upgrade which disables FF. Why not add this to MP too?
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On December 23 2012 03:05 Callynn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:03 Forikorder wrote:On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though. HoTS is not BW So why is the Tank splash taken over from BW while the lurker (SH) aoe is not? I am very much aware that HotS isn't BW >.> Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:05 Gladiator333 wrote:On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. Indeed, I don't know why it isn't currently. Design blunder? I wouldn't call it a blunder, but a poor choice. They should either add FF to all races and balance the game around that, or not add it at all. But that is simply a design choice. Don't forget that most Zerg units (in WoL) have melee or very short range (except the hydra and air) - which would punish them a lot more with FF than Terran for example, who has mostly units with a lot of range.
Actually banelings really should friendly fire. Then they will be used much more carefully and there will be a lot more micro. Herp derp so many banelings is just really boring to watch.
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That would make the Collosus such an interesting unit. Your zealot control would have to be good.
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If some people still didn't get it yet, here is the sad truth:
SC2 is clearly a game made to be easy, Blizzard will never implement things to make the game harder to play.
You will never see Blizzard patching a unit to make it harder to use, but you will definitely see them patching units to make them easier to use.
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On December 23 2012 21:29 fabiano wrote:
If some people still didn't get it yet, here is the sad truth:
SC2 is clearly a game made to be easy, Blizzard will never implement things to make the game harder to play.
You will never see Blizzard patching a unit to make it harder to use, but you will definitely see them patching units to make them easier to use.
Hot about that HotS infestor? Seems harder to use alright. I agree that its unfair that only terran really suffer from friendly fire, but other than possibly making fungal do ff it would be extremely hard to balance it due to zerg and protoss' melee units.
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Don't care... Might have been a good idea to have, but then again, a lot of things would have to be redesigned and rebalanced.
Just one of those things you may choose to give a unit or you don't, when designing it.
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i think fungal rooting but not damaging own units would be pretty good, collosus dealing friendly fire to own units should be implemented, wouldnt really change much though as collosus have better sync with stalkers most of the time rather than chargelots which are better with HT/archon. Tanks are fine the way they are assuming widow mines are in the picture
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On December 23 2012 21:12 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:05 Callynn wrote:On December 23 2012 03:03 Forikorder wrote:On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though. HoTS is not BW So why is the Tank splash taken over from BW while the lurker (SH) aoe is not? I am very much aware that HotS isn't BW >.> On December 23 2012 03:05 Gladiator333 wrote:On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. Indeed, I don't know why it isn't currently. Design blunder? I wouldn't call it a blunder, but a poor choice. They should either add FF to all races and balance the game around that, or not add it at all. But that is simply a design choice. Don't forget that most Zerg units (in WoL) have melee or very short range (except the hydra and air) - which would punish them a lot more with FF than Terran for example, who has mostly units with a lot of range. Actually banelings really should friendly fire. Then they will be used much more carefully and there will be a lot more micro. Herp derp so many banelings is just really boring to watch.
banelings doing friendly fire will make them less useful than reapers, only banelings in large numbers are effective, also banelings introduce micro already and nerfing them will make them almost unseen
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it might just be me, but i dont thing making fungal friendly fire would make that big of a change. people usually fungal stalkers so they cant blink under broods, or on clumps or marines. usually, the two armies are never really close enough that fungal being friendly fire would really make that much of a difference.
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I would freaking LOVE to see Banelings deal friendly fire. It only makes sense!
Edit: Guy above me inspired me to say that fungal friendly fire would be freaking awesome, especially now that it IS a projectile in HotS anyhow, so don't shoot it at your own guys! :D
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On December 24 2012 00:58 JackReacher wrote:
I would freaking LOVE to see Banelings deal friendly fire. It only makes sense!
Edit: Guy above me inspired me to say that fungal friendly fire would be freaking awesome, especially now that it IS a projectile in HotS anyhow, so don't shoot it at your own guys! :D
anyone that says banelings should do friendly fire isn't capable of critical thinking. banelings with friendly fire would cause a chain reaction that would kill all the banelings preventing them from even doing damage.
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If more FF existed, then I want banelings doing damage.....
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EPT
