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I was watching HSC kinda casually watching a few zergs dominate Terrans, and one thing struck me: Isnt tank friendly fire (FF) kinda often backfiring on Terrans themselves? That kind of had me thinking about how FF works. As far as I know, only tanks and storm has FF atm (I guess EMP too, but that doesnt ever matter). And while we occasionally see a P storming his own zealots as the zealots are chasing as bio ball, the existance of FF or not on storm doesnt really seem to have much of an impact. So we're pretty much left with tanks. Tank FF on the other hand does very much limit the amount of "tanking" marines can do of zerglings, and its also plays a part in mechs non-viability against Ps due to how tanky chargelots are against tanks while forcing tanks to splash all over your bio or mech units.
So that kinda had me thinking about FF in a wider perspective. Is FF reasonable on tanks and storms? Should it be removed? Or should FF be added to other spells and abilities? Whats peoples thought on this?
Please dont make this a "HOW TO FIX ZERG" thread or anything. Try to look at it disregarding any current balance. Is more FF on abilities more fun to watch/more fun to play with/better for the game?
Poll: What do you think about the current amount of Friendly Fire?Should be more friendly fire in the game (414) 72% Its good as it is. Tanks and storm, no need for more/less. (133) 23% Should be less/no friendly fire in the game (25) 4% 572 total votes Your vote: What do you think about the current amount of Friendly Fire? (Vote): Its good as it is. Tanks and storm, no need for more/less.
(Vote): Should be less/no friendly fire in the game
(Vote): Should be more friendly fire in the game
And in case of more FF, which units/abilities do you think should be deal friendly fire? Should everything deal FF (colossi, archons, fungal, banelings among others in addition to tanks and storm)? Or only spells (fungal, storm)? What about colossus since they have some similarities with tanks being long range ground weapons? Or fungal since they are somewhat similar to storm?
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I'm pretty sure plague had FF so I don't see why fungal shouldn't
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All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings.
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Maybe Blizzard should add an upgrade that can be unlocked to prevent friendly fire?
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On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings.
if banelings had friendly splash theyd kill more zerg units then enemy units...
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Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though.
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On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though.
HoTS is not BW
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On December 23 2012 02:57 ian952 wrote:
Maybe Blizzard should add an upgrade that can be unlocked to prevent friendly fire?
Or a lot less, like the upgrade already in the Terran Campaign, I have no problems with that to be honest and I play Zerg.
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I think there should be more friendly fire in the game. A unit like the Colossus should definitely do friendly fire this would make it much more interesting. You would need to focus instead of just a-moving. Friendly Fires adds depth so we should not get rid of it for the sake of buffing the tank which is a different topic.
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On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings.
Indeed, I don't know why it isn't currently. Design blunder?
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On December 23 2012 03:03 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though. HoTS is not BW
So why is the Tank splash taken over from BW while the lurker (SH) aoe is not?
I am very much aware that HotS isn't BW >.>
On December 23 2012 03:05 Gladiator333 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. Indeed, I don't know why it isn't currently. Design blunder?
I wouldn't call it a blunder, but a poor choice. They should either add FF to all races and balance the game around that, or not add it at all. But that is simply a design choice. Don't forget that most Zerg units (in WoL) have melee or very short range (except the hydra and air) - which would punish them a lot more with FF than Terran for example, who has mostly units with a lot of range.
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On December 23 2012 03:02 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. if banelings had friendly splash theyd kill more zerg units then enemy units...
Baneling splash should have fall-off damage, it currently deals the full 35 damage in its entire splash range, whereas all other splash sources other than Storm and Fungal have fall-off in their splash.
More friendly fire would be interesting to see, it could heavily affect how chain Fungal is used once the Zerg units start attacking the Fungaled units.
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Colossus, fungal and tanks with friendly fire. Buff protoss as necessary.
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On December 23 2012 03:06 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:02 Forikorder wrote:On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. if banelings had friendly splash theyd kill more zerg units then enemy units... Baneling splash should have fall-off damage, it currently deals the full 35 damage in its entire splash range, whereas all other splash sources other than Storm and Fungal have fall-off in their splash. More friendly fire would be interesting to see, it could heavily affect how chain Fungal is used once the Zerg units start attacking the Fungaled units.
Thats an interesting point about baneling splash actually. Never thought about that.
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4713 Posts
If we talk about friendly fire, how about fungal also affecting any hit zerg units, forcing the zerg to be much, much more precise with the spell and also giving more synergy to fungal with ranged units, while in HoTS Viper's Blinding Cloud, will have more synergy with melee units.
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Friendly Fire is a flavorful, "legacy" addition to the game. I don't care either way and it's definitely not that relevant, with the exception of tanks vs zealots and kind of BLs
If they want to fix this game, they can do a billion things, starting with undo-ing the absurd patch they issued earlier this year.
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On December 23 2012 03:15 n0ise wrote:
Friendly Fire is a flavorful, "legacy" addition to the game. I don't care either way and it's definitely not that relevant, with the exception of tanks vs zealots and kind of BLs
If they want to fix this game, they can do a billion things, starting with undo-ing the absurd patch they issued earlier this year.
I'm pretty sure that if they removed friendly fire from tanks, storm and widow mines, the game would be much more different.
No more dropping and throwing infested terrans on top of tanks, not caring about zealots while storming and amoving marines against zerglings with mines underground.
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Tbh friendly fire would be quite severe to protoss and zerg, considering they use melee units. I would be somewhat fine with it on fungal, since storm has it too (Although zealots are way more capable of eating storms compared to zerglings and any aoe), but I don't think you should add it to colossus, banelings or archons. Colossus would kill zealots too fast, and protoss synergy would suffer severely, archons have too short range, so again, they'd kill zealots, and probably eachother too, banelings would be a complete mess.. You'd have to send them in one by one, and assuming the opponent has some sort of range, they wouldn't really be able to connect.. The least problematic of the changes would probably be archons. I have mixed feelings about fungal.
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On December 23 2012 03:06 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 03:02 Forikorder wrote:On December 23 2012 02:56 Propelled wrote:
All AoE should be capable of friendly fire, with the only exception possibly being banelings on banelings. if banelings had friendly splash theyd kill more zerg units then enemy units... Baneling splash should have fall-off damage, it currently deals the full 35 damage in its entire splash range, whereas all other splash sources other than Storm and Fungal have fall-off in their splash. More friendly fire would be interesting to see, it could heavily affect how chain Fungal is used once the Zerg units start attacking the Fungaled units.
The specific rules behind different types of splash are often there for balance/use reasons.
Fall-off damage is a tool for making an AoE effective at both single target damage and multiple target damage. Tanks do higher damage to their primary target than whatever is around it so that it can be effective at shooting one thing while not being overpowered while splashing others. Giving the Baneling or Storm fall-off damage without changing their primary damage would make them weak in general. Giving them fall-off damage while buffing their primary damage to compensate would make them effective at both single-target and splash damage, which is against their design. Banelings and Storm shouldn't be effective at taking out individual targets.
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Zerg should have some kind of friendly fire, even if it isn't much. Maybe make Fungal friendly fire.
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EPT
