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On December 23 2012 03:05 Baum wrote:
I think there should be more friendly fire in the game. A unit like the Colossus should definitely do friendly fire this would make it much more interesting. You would need to focus instead of just a-moving. Friendly Fires adds depth so we should not get rid of it for the sake of buffing the tank which is a different topic.
you could make unites like collosus or banelings do liek 1/4 the dmg to friendly units they do to enemy units. If you made it the same, they would kill your own units too much. But partial dmg to friendly units could probably be balanced.
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Ever since Wings of Liberty came out I've always considered this. Why does tanks have FF but Colossus don't? Their beam does count as AoE. Also Ultralisks too should have a slight friendly AoE. This could put zergs off maybe using ling/ultralisk and also nerf BL/Ultra slightly if the ultras were also hitting Brdlings and lings.
Units capable of Friendly Fire (including current):
Protoss
Colossus
High Templar (Storm)
Archon
Mothership (Vortex)
Zerg
Baneling
Ultralisk
Infestor (Fungal Growth)
Mutalisk (controversial)
Terran
Siege Tank
Ghost (EMP)
Ghost (Nuke)
Hellion
Raven (Seeker Missile)
I think that's all of them. If I've missed one feel free to shout at me.
But my suggestion to Blizzard is. Of course if Friendly Fire capabilities were given to all of these units then game could potentially be at harm. But this idea will give players something extra to consider when taking a fight. Positioning potentially becomes more important in my opinion.
Plus everyone loves to see a fight where nobody can tell you what will happen in the end. Be it a sudden nuke killing your whole army. Or a few siege tanks demolishing marines being harassed by lings. These are the types of things that can cause huge swings in engagements that viewers (myself at least) love to see.
So my suggestion (getting back on topic) is, why don't Blizzard introduce FF into the units BUT cut the damage by lets say half or 3/4 of what a splash would normally do to an enemy. So the friendly fire is there. But it's not extremely damaging to the engagements but make them more realistic anyway.
EDIT: Could possibly add some of this to OP
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On December 23 2012 03:03 Callynn wrote:
Lurker did FF as well - which is why I don't get the decision to make the swarm host.
or didn't it lol.. I forgot -.-. Plague did for sure though.
lurker does not FF...
or am i becoming senile o.O
baneling should FF, lol zerg tears once again ^_^
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i think making fungal hit friendly units would be awesome.
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On December 23 2012 03:38 dNa wrote:
i think making fungal hit friendly units would be awesome.
Zerg would lose games, so it's not awesome. Imagine Top 8 of any tournament without a Zerg <mindblown>
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 23 2012 03:20 Neino wrote:
Tbh friendly fire would be quite severe to protoss and zerg, considering they use melee units. I would be somewhat fine with it on fungal, since storm has it too (Although zealots are way more capable of eating storms compared to zerglings and any aoe), but I don't think you should add it to colossus, banelings or archons. Colossus would kill zealots too fast, and protoss synergy would suffer severely, archons have too short range, so again, they'd kill zealots, and probably eachother too, banelings would be a complete mess.. You'd have to send them in one by one, and assuming the opponent has some sort of range, they wouldn't really be able to connect.. The least problematic of the changes would probably be archons. I have mixed feelings about fungal.
Of course we can't just add friendly fire to all those units without changing some things but look at the tank and all the interesting interactions that go on with it. If we can find ways to add that to other units it will make the game a lot more interesting. Adding friendly fire to the Collosus would definitely be doable balance wise.
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I feel there should be more of it.
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Vortex has friendly fire, but it's to the advantage of the protoss. You could also say that forcefield has friendly fire. On the other hand, the oracle ability Time Warp does not follow suit. I don't know why, I think generally friendly fire makes an ability require more skill and allows for more counterplay by your opponent. Giving fungal growth friendly fire would not even make it noticeably weaker, but I'd still like it out of principle. Banelings are the primary example of a unit that could not work with friendly fire, so I'm okay with them lacking it. It's also remarkable that storm and emp date from brood war and kept their friendly fire. Fungal growth is new, although based on brood war abilities and lost its ff. Dark swarm was turned into pdd and also lost its ff. I guess dustin browder doesn't like ff too much.
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Tanks have friendly fire because all Terran units are range attack, imagine Zealots and Zerglings dying so fast to friendly fire. I still think it can be done with fungals but Collosus would be challenging, I don't think the Reaver had friendly fire.
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Vortex is only an advantage to protoss if you have archons. Also the friendly fire can be a fraction of damage to friendly units than it is to enemies. Easy to balance it imo.
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On December 23 2012 03:46 biaxiong wrote:
Tanks have friendly fire because all Terran units are range attack
... and those ranged units are attacked by melee units which get attacked by Tanks in their turn, resulting in splash damage being dealt to Terran units regardless of their ranged unit status.
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Some units are good with it, some are less, but the current design is great, colossus wars are fixed already so they don't need this change, banelings with FF would be silly and every other units with splash this change would not matter much, only make them much worse, which is silly since they are not overpowered to begin with.
TL community just loves to jump up on every new thing like this that can "improve the game design", but at least this idea is really not good, the mechanic of FF is cool, but its not needed to have in full, having the current units have it is good.
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I like the idea of fungal causing friendly fire. This will give zergs more to do during an engagement (micro fungals and lings in a way the lings do not get fungaled, but get into combat anyway, while the infestors also have targets that are not close to lings. Currently zerg has not enough micro potential.
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On December 23 2012 02:49 [O]ops wrote:
I'm pretty sure plague had FF so I don't see why fungal shouldn't
Because zerg has too many melee units. But at this pint, I would be fine with it because zerg is op as hell.
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People talking about Zerg and Protoss having melee units really need to consider the fact that those units move extremely fast (lings) or are extremely tanky (zealots). With charge, zealots become that much faster. On creep, lings are insane, (and given how much creep you see on TvZ, it will always be an issue). They are insane fast as it is with speed upgrade.
Marines might as well be melee when it comes to seige tank friendly fire.
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Not going to lie, I find it incredibly annoying that I can hit myself with every single AoE attack I have while Protoss has only to worry about storms that don't even hurt them that bad and Zerg doesn't have to worry about anything at all.
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On December 23 2012 03:09 h41fgod wrote:
Colossus, fungal and tanks with friendly fire. Buff protoss as necessary.
colossus does full damage in a line. with 4-5 colossus (that do auto attack) the AI would oneshot 5 of your own zealots every cooldown. would be pretty fucking lame from an unit that has very emphasized weaknesses already. to make it balanced colossus would have to be redesigned intirely which wouldn't necessarily a bad thing but then it wouldn't be colossus. so this idea creates a whole lot other problems.
friendly firing autoattacking units of a race with melee core units would make ridiculous gameplay. btw i'm pretty sure neither lurker nor reaver did auto attack for the same reason, despite some guys saying it in the thread. tank friendly fire is only justified because of the huge damage, range and the terran units ability to deal damage while not taking ff (even if it requires a lot of micro)
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friendly fire fungal would be a terrible idea. so would friendly fire banelings. it would make zerglings completely useless. fungal needs to bigger addressed, but not like that. that would be like hellions doing friendly fire. :-/
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Friendly fire banelings wouldn't work because banelings explode when they die, unlike tank fire or storms or even a theoretical friendly fire fungal it's not a voluntary aoe it's simply something that exists as part of the unit. This means that they would be more a liability than an asset because the other player could snipe one in the middle of a group of ling/bling and blow up the entire army. I guess you could find a way around it by making them only do friendly fire when they offensively blow up or removing the explosion on death or doing any other thing but it really seems like it would cause more problems than it would be worth.
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On December 23 2012 05:08 Xanbatou wrote:
friendly fire fungal would be a terrible idea. so would friendly fire banelings. it would make zerglings completely useless. fungal needs to bigger addressed, but not like that. that would be like hellions doing friendly fire. :-/
For banelings a I agree. The banelings would kill each other in a chain reaction. For fungal I do not see the problem. You can still fungal before the lings arrive. Fungal units behind the front. Fungal units where only few lings are.
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EPT
