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monk: Just talked to Dustin and did an interview. There's a mistake in this translation. He said in the test map, Psionic units will be unaffected by Fungal, not Neural. Also, they're looking into a lot of changes for the infestor, including removing Neural entirely in HotS. |
On November 18 2012 07:18 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:08 KanoCoke wrote:
Why can't they just make it so massive units can't be neural'd? Ultralisks can't. Why not Thors, Battlecruisers, Motherships and Carriers? There are a lot of ways to bring Infestors in line. I think, "Fungal and Neural can't target air" is an interesting concept to consider. Infested Terrans could still combat opposing air units, but only in a clumsy fashion. It's also ludicrous to think that sticky gunk would hold an air unit in place, or that the Infestor's mind-probe tentacle can reach into the sky. Though it's also absurd to think an Infestor could mind control a robot or a sphere of pissed-off energy. I'm sorry but what league are you in? I cant believe its anything outside of silver league if you think fungal not hitting air wouldnt break zerg beyond repair. Voidray collosus would be unstoppable. Air builds against zerg as a whole would force us into heavy hydra production then stomp us when they collosus transitioned. We'd have to all in every game against protoss. We'd have to kill ravens late game with tons of corruptors, which would be dramatically ineffecient and again, lead to zergs avoiding the late game like the plague. zvz would be a perpetual mutalisk race like broodwar, only without scourge to force actual micro. Just blobs of muta 1aing into each other.
The only thing infestors need is the ability to be dodged and a decreased cost effeciency even if they were to hit successfully, so they become support roles and not massed units [even then this will almost certainly require a buff to other zerg units, so be prepared for those implications] such as increasing the sup to 3.
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On November 18 2012 08:07 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:51 Severedevil wrote:On November 18 2012 07:45 TheDwf wrote:On November 18 2012 07:03 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 18 2012 06:58 Grumbels wrote:
I recall that back in the day infestors weren't used so much, even if fungal lasted a whopping eight seconds. The proposal to turn it into a projectile was rejected and Blizzard was derided for trying to nerf zerg, which goes to show that the community can be short-sighted and overly focused on balance over proper game design. Zerg was weak, so any change to the infestor had to be in the context of buffing zerg. You should also recall that Hydralisk and Ultralisk were terrible, and still are terrible Ultralisks aren't terrible at all against Terran... They kind of are... Isn't the point of Ultras versus Terran that you force the Terran to go all-out countering Broodlords and then switch to Ultras, which stomp the Broodlord counters? They work well but you can't stay on them. You have to transition at one point into broodlors or bio medivac tank overruns you. Why can't Blizzard try the slow% idea? I feel it's the one allowing the most micro capibilities :/
We from the other races like to call this "reacting and strategy." I'm not sure why people pretend that, because the Ultralisk doesn't crush everything, it's a terrible and worthless unit. It's like in PvT: you don't keep making Colossi once the Terran switches into Starport production. That doesn't mean the Colossus is a terrible unit. It means its balanced and has actual weaknesses. Compare that to the Infestor, which you can build against anything and still win.
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Maybe if Psionic units would be immune to fungals too so that high templars/ghosts could approach infestors and drain their energy. Even allowing dark templars to snipe them.
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 We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks
We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies...
No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop.
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Super promising interview, cant wait to see some of the WoL redesigns/changes for HoTS
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On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop.
Completely agreed.
They're fixing a flesh wound by amputating an entire limb of possible strategies. It's too blunt of an approach that reduces many interesting plays just to tweak an end-game win-rate even though there are more elegant solutions out there.
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Projectile fungal fixes NOTHING. The problem is that once a fungal lands, you are fucked because your units will be chain fungaled to death, not that it is difficult to avoid the first few fungals. Even when Blizzard is doing the right thing they manage to find a way to fuck it up.
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I don't like the projectile change. Z already have banelings which can be kited, and now we are going to have fungals too. Z early - mid game is going to be more unreliable than ever.
A cooler change would be for fungal to come out in a cone in-front of the infestor.and then slow. That way it would be easier to see coming and funner to use.
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On November 18 2012 08:43 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop. Completely agreed. They're fixing a flesh wound by amputating an entire limb of possible strategies. It's too blunt of an approach that reduces many interesting plays just to tweak an end-game win-rate even though there are more elegant solutions out there.
Just like their detection changes with the widow mine, they have no subtlety or elegance. Everything is heavy handed with these guys. They use a sledgehammer when a scalpel is required.
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On November 18 2012 08:43 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop. Completely agreed. They're fixing a flesh wound by amputating an entire limb of possible strategies. It's too blunt of an approach that reduces many interesting plays just to tweak an end-game win-rate even though there are more elegant solutions out there. There not fixing anything...there putting up a map for testing in one avenue while testing another possible solution with another avenue. Both could end up rejected for different reasons.
edit: And changing fungal to a projectile isnt subtle? What the fuck? It literally just puts the responsibility on the other user more, thats as subtle and as light a change as you can possibly conceive of. Even a 3 supply infestor would be a more blunt change than that.
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Can we just turn fungal into plague? Plague was good right and think about how much fun casters had saying it. The complete negation of movement is what kills fungal in zvt (chain fungals are way to easy and powerful), which is the only one i can really comment on as a t player. Fungal and broodlings are too good at stopping an army from closing, making the terran go for the hero air battle or nothing (which usually fails).
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I still don't like the projectile idea. Fungal should just slow not root. Such a profoundly obvious fix that's been needed for a long time both balance and entertainment wise. More nerfs could follow but that should be the starting point. That and maybe putting a cooldown on infested terrans.
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On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop.
Agreed.
Just give mothership immunity if thats what they wanna accomplish.
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On November 18 2012 08:52 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop. Agreed. Just give mothership immunity if thats what they wanna accomplish.
And still is dumb as fuck because we don't fucking want to watch Vortex wars just to keep win-ratio (dumb balance is dumb),
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On November 18 2012 08:43 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:41 ShatterZer0 wrote: We'll never see gosu templar steals into 4 feedbacks We'll never see insane ghost steals to neuter entire Terran armies... No psionic is ridiculous. Just give the Mothership immunity like the Ultralisk has random immunity to fungal stop. Completely agreed. They're fixing a flesh wound by amputating an entire limb of possible strategies. It's too blunt of an approach that reduces many interesting plays just to tweak an end-game win-rate even though there are more elegant solutions out there.
Like nerfing snipe to only work on psionic units, thereby removing some openings which used snipe against marines or use of the spell in late-game vs protoss armies. Qxc made a famous post advising Blizzard to instead consider slightly decreasing the damage to massive, but Blizzard ended up doing nothing with it.
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On November 18 2012 07:51 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:45 TheDwf wrote:On November 18 2012 07:03 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 18 2012 06:58 Grumbels wrote:
I recall that back in the day infestors weren't used so much, even if fungal lasted a whopping eight seconds. The proposal to turn it into a projectile was rejected and Blizzard was derided for trying to nerf zerg, which goes to show that the community can be short-sighted and overly focused on balance over proper game design. Zerg was weak, so any change to the infestor had to be in the context of buffing zerg. You should also recall that Hydralisk and Ultralisk were terrible, and still are terrible Ultralisks aren't terrible at all against Terran... They kind of are... Isn't the point of Ultras versus Terran that you force the Terran to go all-out countering Broodlords and then switch to Ultras, which stomp the Broodlord counters?
Ultras can be really good against Terran but they're more for pressing an advantage or catching the Terran off guard by hiding them or switching to them quickly from brood lords. They're not something you want to stick with if your initial attack isn't pretty successful though because unlike brood lords, Terran's means of beating them are a lot more practical and easy to get together.
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Seems to be a different interview. There is information in this Korean interview that isn't present in the Chinese one.
Interview with Dustin Browder by TIG (Korea)
One of the question asked:
What features are being added to HOTS?
-Resume from replay
-Allowing observers to present information like player's name anywhere they want
-if you reach max level, at least one custom skin for each race
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/13cl3k/hots_to_include_custom_skin_system/
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They should just make neural parasite ground only -_-
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On November 18 2012 09:22 eviltomahawk wrote:Seems to be a different interview. There is information in this Korean interview that isn't present in the Chinese one. Show nested quote +Interview with Dustin Browder by TIG (Korea)
One of the question asked:
What features are being added to HOTS?
-Resume from replay
-Allowing observers to present information like player's name anywhere they want
-if you reach max level, at least one custom skin for each race http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/13cl3k/hots_to_include_custom_skin_system/
Yeah, it seems to be different for sure. I tried to google transalated and it looks like Dustin is talking about Terran.
It would be nice if someone could translate it
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EPT
