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On August 27 2012 14:01 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:59 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:56 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 13:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:49 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 13:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:38 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:26 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Ok. So, what you are telling me is that the current SC2 players have reached their potential and that Kespa players after 3 1/2 months while playing two games have already caught up to it? Sounds to me like very bad news for GOM players and that GSL should stay GOM and OSL should stay Kespa. Otherwise, GOM players will only have foreign events as a way to make a profit. July probably encouraged MC to switch to SC2 because he was not doing well on BW with a 1-9 record. Also, I do not understand the bolded quote. I would think that training with the best player on the team would well...make you better overall. Because you improve by playing people better then you. There is a difference between training with someone and helping someone else train. if you are training with someone then you should improve but if you are helping some else prepare and being giving specific instructions on what to do so they can practice against it then you wont improve and it will be very demotivating. As for KESPA players catching up I never said that and if you are inferring that KESPA players have caught up because they are able to beat GSL players then you are setting a very low standard. If they were not able to beat GSL players then that would show a huge lack of skill on their part, high level players should be able to beat any other high level player at any time in a series. As soon as we knew that they were able to make GM on the korean ladder then that meant that they were able to take games of any player in the world and if you can take a game you can take a series. but it is much to early to say they have caught up, they are good and nobody thought they wouldn't be but are equal, no not yet. but that does not mean that GSL players will never lose a series against a KESPA player I agree with that last part. But I think Kespas streak was more then enough to confirm that they have indeed caught up to the current GOM pros. @the bolded part: Also by GSL players do you mean your current champion Seed? DRG? Gumiho? Puzzle? Leenock (who just won MLG)? As for KESPA catching up that is opinion based so i think we can agree to disagree on that. im confused about the last part of you post and what point you are trying to make, maybe im just dense at the moment. Why go by opinions when we have facts?...The point that I am trying to make by my last quote is that it was some of SC2s best players that lost to Kespa players. The fact that they beat some of the best SC2 had to offer is enough evidence to show that they have caught up and are on par with the current GOM pros. God damn, you're dumb. You don't realize that you're taking a really, REALLY small sample and extrapolating greatly. That doesn't work. If they CONTINUE to beat players like Seed and Teaja, then maybe you'll be right. But right now there simply isn't sufficient evidence for you to truly back up your claim. A few BO3 series do not an entire scene define. That "small" sample included a 10-0 winstreak from some of the best players SC2 had to offer. I know you might be a little butt hurt, but you need to face reality. That small sample does not represent all of KeSPA though. Remember how at the beginning many of their players were terrible and you had players like Soulkey who were apparently already GM. This can easily be the situation here, just because a select amount of players can do well against top pros doesn't mean the entire scene is already on par with the GOM players. I think a decent amount of KeSPA players are quite good compared to GOM pros, but I don't think KeSPA as a whole has caught up. Yes, but those same players are losing games in Pro League too. And all players win 100% of their games since when...?
In other words since you cannot seem to read between the lines...Kespa players are evening out in skill. Also, did you even include the Kespa players that beat the GOM players in the preliminaries?
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10387 Posts
On August 27 2012 13:56 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:49 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 13:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:38 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:26 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:09 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 12:57 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Beating the current GSL champ who has played for 2 years to your 3 1/2 months is more of "surpassing" then it is catching up. Also, we know how hard it was to become a Brood War pro and why most of the ESF and current SC2 pros did not make a big splash in the scene. It took a load of skill. We know the potential of Brood War pros which is why people make the comparison. The reason, or at least one of the major reasons, that a lot of the ESF players were not able to break out in BW but became the best players in SC2 was because if you were not already an A team player in BW then you had to spend so much of your time helping the best players on your team stay the best and not a lot of time on improving yourself. when players switched to SC2 they were able to focus on themselves and as a result they were able to reach their potential something that was not possible in BW. remember that July advised MC, they were team mates in BW, to change to SC2 because he would have better opportunities to be successful because by that time BW had become too codified. Ok. So, what you are telling me is that the current SC2 players have reached their potential and that Kespa players after 3 1/2 months while playing two games have already caught up to it? Sounds to me like very bad news for GOM players and that GSL should stay GOM and OSL should stay Kespa. Otherwise, GOM players will only have foreign events as a way to make a profit. July probably encouraged MC to switch to SC2 because he was not doing well on BW with a 1-9 record. Also, I do not understand the bolded quote. I would think that training with the best player on the team would well...make you better overall. Because you improve by playing people better then you. There is a difference between training with someone and helping someone else train. if you are training with someone then you should improve but if you are helping some else prepare and being giving specific instructions on what to do so they can practice against it then you wont improve and it will be very demotivating. As for KESPA players catching up I never said that and if you are inferring that KESPA players have caught up because they are able to beat GSL players then you are setting a very low standard. If they were not able to beat GSL players then that would show a huge lack of skill on their part, high level players should be able to beat any other high level player at any time in a series. As soon as we knew that they were able to make GM on the korean ladder then that meant that they were able to take games of any player in the world and if you can take a game you can take a series. but it is much to early to say they have caught up, they are good and nobody thought they wouldn't be but are equal, no not yet. but that does not mean that GSL players will never lose a series against a KESPA player I agree with that last part. But I think Kespas streak was more then enough to confirm that they have indeed caught up to the current GOM pros. @the bolded part: Also by GSL players do you mean your current champion Seed? DRG? Gumiho? Puzzle? Leenock (who just won MLG)? As for KESPA catching up that is opinion based so i think we can agree to disagree on that. im confused about the last part of you post and what point you are trying to make, maybe im just dense at the moment. Why go by opinions when we have facts?...The point that I am trying to make by my last quote is that it was some of SC2s best players that lost to Kespa players. The fact that they beat some of the best SC2 had to offer is enough evidence to show that they have caught up and are on par with the current GOM pros. God damn, you're dumb. You don't realize that you're taking a really, REALLY small sample and extrapolating greatly. That doesn't work. If they CONTINUE to beat players like Seed and Teaja, then maybe you'll be right. But right now there simply isn't sufficient evidence for you to truly back up your claim. A few BO3 series do not an entire scene define. That "small" sample included a 10-0 winstreak from some of the best players SC2 had to offer. I know you might be a little butt hurt, but you need to face reality. That small sample does not represent all of KeSPA though. Remember how at the beginning many of their players were terrible and you had players like Soulkey who were apparently already GM. This can easily be the situation here, just because a select amount of players can do well against top pros doesn't mean the entire scene is already on par with the GOM players. I think a decent amount of KeSPA players are quite good compared to GOM pros, but I don't think KeSPA as a whole has caught up.
well, Reality is only 25th in the SKPlanet proleague ranking, so presumably the rest could do about as well as he did.
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Lol that nobody replied to that. I hope that's enough for ESF to be honest, but I don't think it will be.
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My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear)
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Looks like mods locked the thread, until a more reliable source is found.
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On August 27 2012 14:04 TheDougler wrote:Lol that nobody replied to that. I hope that's enough for ESF to be honest, but I don't think it will be.
It's gotta be, that is all that kespa will do to budge. Even doing that is a big step from kespa.
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On August 27 2012 14:08 stangstang wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:04 TheDougler wrote:Lol that nobody replied to that. I hope that's enough for ESF to be honest, but I don't think it will be. It's gotta be, that is all that kespa will do to budge. Even doing that is a big step from kespa.
Even if so, I hope they have a good, leak proof contract. KeSPA isn't exactly trustworthy.
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On August 27 2012 14:04 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 13:56 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 13:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:49 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 13:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:38 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:26 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:09 coloursheep wrote:
[quote]
The reason, or at least one of the major reasons, that a lot of the ESF players were not able to break out in BW but became the best players in SC2 was because if you were not already an A team player in BW then you had to spend so much of your time helping the best players on your team stay the best and not a lot of time on improving yourself. when players switched to SC2 they were able to focus on themselves and as a result they were able to reach their potential something that was not possible in BW. remember that July advised MC, they were team mates in BW, to change to SC2 because he would have better opportunities to be successful because by that time BW had become too codified. Ok. So, what you are telling me is that the current SC2 players have reached their potential and that Kespa players after 3 1/2 months while playing two games have already caught up to it? Sounds to me like very bad news for GOM players and that GSL should stay GOM and OSL should stay Kespa. Otherwise, GOM players will only have foreign events as a way to make a profit. July probably encouraged MC to switch to SC2 because he was not doing well on BW with a 1-9 record. Also, I do not understand the bolded quote. I would think that training with the best player on the team would well...make you better overall. Because you improve by playing people better then you. There is a difference between training with someone and helping someone else train. if you are training with someone then you should improve but if you are helping some else prepare and being giving specific instructions on what to do so they can practice against it then you wont improve and it will be very demotivating. As for KESPA players catching up I never said that and if you are inferring that KESPA players have caught up because they are able to beat GSL players then you are setting a very low standard. If they were not able to beat GSL players then that would show a huge lack of skill on their part, high level players should be able to beat any other high level player at any time in a series. As soon as we knew that they were able to make GM on the korean ladder then that meant that they were able to take games of any player in the world and if you can take a game you can take a series. but it is much to early to say they have caught up, they are good and nobody thought they wouldn't be but are equal, no not yet. but that does not mean that GSL players will never lose a series against a KESPA player I agree with that last part. But I think Kespas streak was more then enough to confirm that they have indeed caught up to the current GOM pros. @the bolded part: Also by GSL players do you mean your current champion Seed? DRG? Gumiho? Puzzle? Leenock (who just won MLG)? As for KESPA catching up that is opinion based so i think we can agree to disagree on that. im confused about the last part of you post and what point you are trying to make, maybe im just dense at the moment. Why go by opinions when we have facts?...The point that I am trying to make by my last quote is that it was some of SC2s best players that lost to Kespa players. The fact that they beat some of the best SC2 had to offer is enough evidence to show that they have caught up and are on par with the current GOM pros. God damn, you're dumb. You don't realize that you're taking a really, REALLY small sample and extrapolating greatly. That doesn't work. If they CONTINUE to beat players like Seed and Teaja, then maybe you'll be right. But right now there simply isn't sufficient evidence for you to truly back up your claim. A few BO3 series do not an entire scene define. That "small" sample included a 10-0 winstreak from some of the best players SC2 had to offer. I know you might be a little butt hurt, but you need to face reality. That small sample does not represent all of KeSPA though. Remember how at the beginning many of their players were terrible and you had players like Soulkey who were apparently already GM. This can easily be the situation here, just because a select amount of players can do well against top pros doesn't mean the entire scene is already on par with the GOM players. I think a decent amount of KeSPA players are quite good compared to GOM pros, but I don't think KeSPA as a whole has caught up. well, Reality is only 25th in the SKPlanet proleague ranking, so presumably the rest could do about as well as he did.
Possibly, but I did say I think a decent amount of KeSPA players can do so.
So you're not really saying anything different than I am.
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On August 27 2012 14:10 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:08 stangstang wrote:On August 27 2012 14:04 TheDougler wrote:Lol that nobody replied to that. I hope that's enough for ESF to be honest, but I don't think it will be. It's gotta be, that is all that kespa will do to budge. Even doing that is a big step from kespa. Even if so, I hope they have a good, leak proof contract. KeSPA isn't exactly trustworthy.
No business in the world will guarantee something like that for all-time to their competitor.
This isn't just about saving face - it would be a suicide on the business side of things.
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On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear)
That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL.
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10387 Posts
On August 27 2012 14:10 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:04 ArvickHero wrote:On August 27 2012 13:56 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 13:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:49 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 13:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:38 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:26 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:14 BlazeFury01 wrote:
[quote]
Ok. So, what you are telling me is that the current SC2 players have reached their potential and that Kespa players after 3 1/2 months while playing two games have already caught up to it? Sounds to me like very bad news for GOM players and that GSL should stay GOM and OSL should stay Kespa. Otherwise, GOM players will only have foreign events as a way to make a profit. July probably encouraged MC to switch to SC2 because he was not doing well on BW with a 1-9 record. Also, I do not understand the bolded quote. I would think that training with the best player on the team would well...make you better overall. Because you improve by playing people better then you. There is a difference between training with someone and helping someone else train. if you are training with someone then you should improve but if you are helping some else prepare and being giving specific instructions on what to do so they can practice against it then you wont improve and it will be very demotivating. As for KESPA players catching up I never said that and if you are inferring that KESPA players have caught up because they are able to beat GSL players then you are setting a very low standard. If they were not able to beat GSL players then that would show a huge lack of skill on their part, high level players should be able to beat any other high level player at any time in a series. As soon as we knew that they were able to make GM on the korean ladder then that meant that they were able to take games of any player in the world and if you can take a game you can take a series. but it is much to early to say they have caught up, they are good and nobody thought they wouldn't be but are equal, no not yet. but that does not mean that GSL players will never lose a series against a KESPA player I agree with that last part. But I think Kespas streak was more then enough to confirm that they have indeed caught up to the current GOM pros. @the bolded part: Also by GSL players do you mean your current champion Seed? DRG? Gumiho? Puzzle? Leenock (who just won MLG)? As for KESPA catching up that is opinion based so i think we can agree to disagree on that. im confused about the last part of you post and what point you are trying to make, maybe im just dense at the moment. Why go by opinions when we have facts?...The point that I am trying to make by my last quote is that it was some of SC2s best players that lost to Kespa players. The fact that they beat some of the best SC2 had to offer is enough evidence to show that they have caught up and are on par with the current GOM pros. God damn, you're dumb. You don't realize that you're taking a really, REALLY small sample and extrapolating greatly. That doesn't work. If they CONTINUE to beat players like Seed and Teaja, then maybe you'll be right. But right now there simply isn't sufficient evidence for you to truly back up your claim. A few BO3 series do not an entire scene define. That "small" sample included a 10-0 winstreak from some of the best players SC2 had to offer. I know you might be a little butt hurt, but you need to face reality. That small sample does not represent all of KeSPA though. Remember how at the beginning many of their players were terrible and you had players like Soulkey who were apparently already GM. This can easily be the situation here, just because a select amount of players can do well against top pros doesn't mean the entire scene is already on par with the GOM players. I think a decent amount of KeSPA players are quite good compared to GOM pros, but I don't think KeSPA as a whole has caught up. well, Reality is only 25th in the SKPlanet proleague ranking, so presumably the rest could do about as well as he did. Possibly, but I did say I think a decent amount of KeSPA players can do so. So you're not really saying anything different than I am.
mm guess not lol, bad habit of always thinking about only the top30 lol
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On August 27 2012 14:13 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear) That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL.
that article was put up exactly 2 hours ago
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On August 27 2012 14:16 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:10 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 14:04 ArvickHero wrote:On August 27 2012 13:56 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 13:51 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:49 Zennith wrote:On August 27 2012 13:42 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:38 coloursheep wrote:On August 27 2012 13:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On August 27 2012 13:26 coloursheep wrote:
[quote]
There is a difference between training with someone and helping someone else train. if you are training with someone then you should improve but if you are helping some else prepare and being giving specific instructions on what to do so they can practice against it then you wont improve and it will be very demotivating.
As for KESPA players catching up I never said that and if you are inferring that KESPA players have caught up because they are able to beat GSL players then you are setting a very low standard. If they were not able to beat GSL players then that would show a huge lack of skill on their part, high level players should be able to beat any other high level player at any time in a series. As soon as we knew that they were able to make GM on the korean ladder then that meant that they were able to take games of any player in the world and if you can take a game you can take a series. but it is much to early to say they have caught up, they are good and nobody thought they wouldn't be but are equal, no not yet. but that does not mean that GSL players will never lose a series against a KESPA player
I agree with that last part. But I think Kespas streak was more then enough to confirm that they have indeed caught up to the current GOM pros. @the bolded part: Also by GSL players do you mean your current champion Seed? DRG? Gumiho? Puzzle? Leenock (who just won MLG)? As for KESPA catching up that is opinion based so i think we can agree to disagree on that. im confused about the last part of you post and what point you are trying to make, maybe im just dense at the moment. Why go by opinions when we have facts?...The point that I am trying to make by my last quote is that it was some of SC2s best players that lost to Kespa players. The fact that they beat some of the best SC2 had to offer is enough evidence to show that they have caught up and are on par with the current GOM pros. God damn, you're dumb. You don't realize that you're taking a really, REALLY small sample and extrapolating greatly. That doesn't work. If they CONTINUE to beat players like Seed and Teaja, then maybe you'll be right. But right now there simply isn't sufficient evidence for you to truly back up your claim. A few BO3 series do not an entire scene define. That "small" sample included a 10-0 winstreak from some of the best players SC2 had to offer. I know you might be a little butt hurt, but you need to face reality. That small sample does not represent all of KeSPA though. Remember how at the beginning many of their players were terrible and you had players like Soulkey who were apparently already GM. This can easily be the situation here, just because a select amount of players can do well against top pros doesn't mean the entire scene is already on par with the GOM players. I think a decent amount of KeSPA players are quite good compared to GOM pros, but I don't think KeSPA as a whole has caught up. well, Reality is only 25th in the SKPlanet proleague ranking, so presumably the rest could do about as well as he did. Possibly, but I did say I think a decent amount of KeSPA players can do so. So you're not really saying anything different than I am. mm guess not lol, bad habit of always thinking about only the top30 lol
Yeah they're good though.
Granted I also think that lack of experience against these players helps them. It won't completely win them games against the top pros but when you have little to no replays or footage of these players it is harder to prepare against them when they have replays of you.
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I hope they just announce it soon. They're making us crazy with all this waiting.
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On August 27 2012 14:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:13 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear) That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL. that article was put up exactly 2 hours ago
Yeah, but its old informaton man because its saying the same damn thing.
There have been no changes.
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On August 27 2012 14:25 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 27 2012 14:13 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear) That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL. that article was put up exactly 2 hours ago Yeah, but its old informaton man because its saying the same damn thing.
But didn't KeSPA say they were only participating in GSL5?
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On August 27 2012 14:26 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:25 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 27 2012 14:13 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear) That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL. that article was put up exactly 2 hours ago Yeah, but its old informaton man because its saying the same damn thing. But didn't KeSPA say they were only participating in GSL5?
Onward. It practically means the same thing and nothing was written in stone to begin with. The Fed wants them in GSL4 right now. OSL is about to start, if KeSPA don't put their e-peens away the Federation teams won't be competing.
Same old story.
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On August 27 2012 14:03 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Also, did you even include the Kespa players that beat the GOM players in the preliminaries?
I just looked back at the preliminaries. There was only one KeSPA player that qualified via the preliminaries compared to 15 ESF players. That one player was Reality
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On August 27 2012 14:29 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:03 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Also, did you even include the Kespa players that beat the GOM players in the preliminaries? I just looked back at the preliminaries. There was only one KeSPA player that qualified via the preliminaries compared to 15 ESF players. That one player was Reality
Still way too early for you guys to be reading into any of that stuff.
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On August 27 2012 14:28 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 14:26 Femari wrote:On August 27 2012 14:25 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:16 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 27 2012 14:13 StarStruck wrote:On August 27 2012 14:06 ShiroKaisen wrote:
My roommate just independantly translated the article before the thread got closed. KeSPA has declared that the players will participate in every GSL following GSL4, and that Starleague should resume with the eSports Fed teams. (or they hope? wasn't clear) That goes back to the 23rd. That's not anything new bud. They still don't want their players in GSL4 and the Fed are telling them they won't participate in the OSL until they start competing in the GSL. that article was put up exactly 2 hours ago Yeah, but its old informaton man because its saying the same damn thing. But didn't KeSPA say they were only participating in GSL5? Onward. It practically means the same thing and nothing was written in stone to begin with. The Fed wants them in GSL4 right now. OSL is about to start, if KeSPA don't put their e-peens away the Federation teams won't be competing. Same old story.
But the summary on the front page says they only said they'd do GSL5 and said nothing about onward.
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EPT
