On August 28 2012 12:04 0neder wrote: If the GSL is so prestigious, then so many of these GSL players (who I like) wouldn't be mentally crumbling in the booth when they play a Masters-level Jaedong. Kespa has legitimacy because it has the best RTS minds and bodies on the planet.
As much as people hate Kespa, Kespa is the reason the SC scene is alive today, and the reason most of us love esports.
They are crumbling to pressure of fighting an opponent with little to no games to study them and risking being ridiculed if they lose (and having their wins put down to just having more practice/experience).
KeSPA has no legitimacy in the SC2 scene (yet), BW and SC2 have similar mechanics but are two very different games.
In your first paragraph you just described Code B and Code A scrubs.
I hate bringing up the MVP is a Woongjin Terran thing because he's insanely talented and I got a lot of respect for him but it would be high hopes to think he would make an A team in 8 team Proleague. (except Ace, because Ace don't practice that much)
What?
GuMiHo, Genius amongst others are not Code B and Code A scrubs, they have proven to be (perhaps inconsistent) Code S material. Many of the players who lost to KeSPA players stated that it was hard to play because of the pressure put on them during the games; if they win, it's not much of an accomplishment because the BW pros have only just switched over, if they lose they are ridiculed for losing to much less experienced players.
I meant Code A/B scrubs are also "opponent with little to no games to study them and risking being ridiculed if they lose." But you'd still expect a solid Code S players like Genius and Gumiho to beat those people even without replays right?
On August 28 2012 12:32 TommyP wrote: MC's take on how Kespa players switching over with affect him and other top players.
MC's always been really confident, that's part of his charm.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: Not really. I'm a grown-up. I don't want to watch immature ads for Red Bull and Axe and Doritos. Adidas, Samsung, etc are mainstream cultural brands. I don't want to watch a competition in a dark theater of boys, I want to watch it in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people.
Kespa esport is(or were at least) special, it is friendlier, more approachable, and more attractive than the other stuff, which is darker and tackier.
You've got a vivid imagination.
What part of "in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people" is imagined? Oh, maybe "ten."
GOM being nice to KeSPA? GOM *needs* KeSPA players to legitimize its tournaments.
The world has gotten along extraordinarily well without KeSPA for the last 2 years. KeSPA could pull a 360 and GOM and the global SCII community would continue to thrive and grow.
This is true as long as Blizzard keeps pumping money into SC2; if "GOM and the global SCII community" were left to their own devices (like KeSPA was), I'm not so sure.
But he didnt just say himself though, he also said that MVP, DRG, NesTea dont have a thing to worry about. Also I believe it was Grubby that said something in his real talk about the kespa players, it kind of went along with what MC said in that interview, but thats really long so im not going to look through it, but you are more than welcome to if you want proof.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
Actually hasnt Flash had a lot of impressive games in his young SC2 career? His MLG was obviously glorious, but I remember him playing really really well in OSL qualifier (i think thats what it was) @Xiphos.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: Not really. I'm a grown-up. I don't want to watch immature ads for Red Bull and Axe and Doritos. Adidas, Samsung, etc are mainstream cultural brands. I don't want to watch a competition in a dark theater of boys, I want to watch it in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people.
Kespa esport is(or were at least) special, it is friendlier, more approachable, and more attractive than the other stuff, which is darker and tackier.
You've got a vivid imagination.
What part of "in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people" is imagined? Oh, maybe "ten."
GOM being nice to KeSPA? GOM *needs* KeSPA players to legitimize its tournaments.
The world has gotten along extraordinarily well without KeSPA for the last 2 years. KeSPA could pull a 360 and GOM and the global SCII community would continue to thrive and grow.
This is true as long as Blizzard keeps pumping money into SC2; if "GOM and the global SCII community" were left to their own devices (like KeSPA was), I'm not so sure.
Because watching it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people isn't happening anywhere anytime soon, even in Korea. A well-lit studio full of both genders... maybe if we're lucky.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: Not really. I'm a grown-up. I don't want to watch immature ads for Red Bull and Axe and Doritos. Adidas, Samsung, etc are mainstream cultural brands. I don't want to watch a competition in a dark theater of boys, I want to watch it in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people.
Kespa esport is(or were at least) special, it is friendlier, more approachable, and more attractive than the other stuff, which is darker and tackier.
You've got a vivid imagination.
What part of "in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people" is imagined? Oh, maybe "ten."
On August 28 2012 12:30 markrevival wrote:
On August 28 2012 11:40 VManOfMana wrote:
GOM being nice to KeSPA? GOM *needs* KeSPA players to legitimize its tournaments.
The world has gotten along extraordinarily well without KeSPA for the last 2 years. KeSPA could pull a 360 and GOM and the global SCII community would continue to thrive and grow.
This is true as long as Blizzard keeps pumping money into SC2; if "GOM and the global SCII community" were left to their own devices (like KeSPA was), I'm not so sure.
Because watching it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people isn't happening anywhere anytime soon, even in Korea. A well-lit studio full of both genders... maybe if we're lucky.
Um, almost every recent Proleague final has been held on a public beach (in GwangAnRi) in front of thousands of people.
If an mod looks at my posting history, I accidentally clicked 'report' when I wanted to quote someone in this thread. I in no way wanted to report them. I'm just a silver-league clicker (as with SC2) I guess. Sorry.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
They're still practicing some BW. How do you make the huge leap that he's sneaking in BW games just because he doesn't like SC2.
Okay buddy, you got a thing or two to learn about how the Kespa guys operate.
They would never release a replay of their play to keep their gameplay as clandestine as possible. And to be playing on ladder is just asking to expose your weakness.
SKT T1 wouldn't allow such incident to happen, they are too strict for that.
Secondly, if Bisu needed practice partner to Brood War, he can simply ask his fellow teammates to train with him. Not hard right?
People have been saying that they are practicing 80% in StarCraft 2 and only 20% in BW. But in Bisu's interview, he set up his schedule to be 50/50 for both of the games.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: Not really. I'm a grown-up. I don't want to watch immature ads for Red Bull and Axe and Doritos. Adidas, Samsung, etc are mainstream cultural brands. I don't want to watch a competition in a dark theater of boys, I want to watch it in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people.
Kespa esport is(or were at least) special, it is friendlier, more approachable, and more attractive than the other stuff, which is darker and tackier.
You've got a vivid imagination.
What part of "in a well-lit studio full of both genders. I want to watch it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people" is imagined? Oh, maybe "ten."
On August 28 2012 12:30 markrevival wrote:
On August 28 2012 11:40 VManOfMana wrote:
GOM being nice to KeSPA? GOM *needs* KeSPA players to legitimize its tournaments.
The world has gotten along extraordinarily well without KeSPA for the last 2 years. KeSPA could pull a 360 and GOM and the global SCII community would continue to thrive and grow.
This is true as long as Blizzard keeps pumping money into SC2; if "GOM and the global SCII community" were left to their own devices (like KeSPA was), I'm not so sure.
Because watching it on a public beach in front of tens of thousands of people isn't happening anywhere anytime soon, even in Korea. A well-lit studio full of both genders... maybe if we're lucky.
Every big Brood War match has had a studio filled with both genders, and there've been several finals on a beach in front of enormous crowds.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
They're still practicing some BW. How do you make the huge leap that he's sneaking in BW games just because he doesn't like SC2.
Okay buddy, you got a thing or two to learn about how the Kespa guys operate.
They would never release a replay of their play to keep their gameplay as clandestine as possible. And to be playing on ladder is just asking to expose your weakness.
SKT T1 wouldn't allow such incident to happen, they are too strict for that.
Secondly, if Bisu needed practice partner to Brood War, he can simply ask his fellow teammates to train with him. Not hard right?
People have been saying that they are practicing 80% in StarCraft 2 and only 20% in BW. But in Bisu's interview, he set up his schedule to be 50/50 for both of the games.
So they're strict enough to get pissed at Bisu for smurfing on BW ladder, but not strict enough to notice if he's playing BW when he should be playing SC2? This whole leap to conclusion that he doesn't like SC2 is some kind of wishful thinking on your part.
On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote: A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. These guys fought ravenously climbing up the internal ranks to beat out all the former b-teamers who got in on the SC2 ground floor.
No, they have none at all, take Bisu as a prime example, in BW he was and still is an A-Teamer, in SC2 he has the worst result of any other player from BW.
Flash also, apart from the MLG games which were not exactly top notch, has had underwhelming results in SC2, yet he was regarded as the most successful BW player of all time.
Players transition to different games in very different ways, the mechanical skills are there, but being good at a similar game won't make you good in another.
Also you're clear blind fanboy-ism is boring and responding to you seems pointless.
Its funny because Bisu doesn't seem to actually like the game (SC2) with him sneaking on Fish to play BW with Larva for 4 games in a row while he is suppose to be practicing for PL. You can't excel at something that you are imposed upon.
Same thing can be applied to Flash.
While I can agree that bisu doesn't seem to like the game where did you hear about bisu sneaking on fish to play bw?
They're still practicing some BW. How do you make the huge leap that he's sneaking in BW games just because he doesn't like SC2.
Okay buddy, you got a thing or two to learn about how the Kespa guys operate.
They would never release a replay of their play to keep their gameplay as clandestine as possible. And to be playing on ladder is just asking to expose your weakness.
SKT T1 wouldn't allow such incident to happen, they are too strict for that.
Secondly, if Bisu needed practice partner to Brood War, he can simply ask his fellow teammates to train with him. Not hard right?
People have been saying that they are practicing 80% in StarCraft 2 and only 20% in BW. But in Bisu's interview, he set up his schedule to be 50/50 for both of the games.
Honestly .. I don't think SKT management barred Bisu from doing so. I would actually bet instead that Bisu was allowed to practice on Fish because top Fish players could very likely be in better shape than a majority of the KeSPA pros .. and SKT was desperate to win their game against ACE, so they pulled all the stops. And seeing that it's the last BW season anyways, there's not much harm in some BW replays being leaked.
Practicing on the ladder is not totally without precedent either. I know that Bisu has said in an interview he somehow ended up playing against Baby in ladder. Of course, if Bisu is to continue to practice this way, he'll have to do so on a new account.
But yea, Bisu definitely doesn't enjoy SC2 as much as BW. He's stated a lot in his interviews that he feels totally comfortable with BW, while SC2 still feels very foreign and uncomfortable to him.
this thread has pretty much illustrated that many players new to the scene, through sc2, really have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to kespa, its players, and leagues.
EPT
