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Patch 1.5: Custom Game Use Old Balance Patch - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
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PatouPower
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1119 Posts
July 31 2012 10:31 GMT
#61
I love how this thread turned into yet another shitty balance discussion. lol...
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
July 31 2012 10:33 GMT
#62
On July 31 2012 19:26 _Search_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:05 MysteryTerran wrote:
If it's not in the patch notes then it's a bug that will be fixed. To the people saying Phoenix are micro intensive, lol. I wouldn't expect any Protoss player below Top8 Masters to know what "micro intensive" means.


No kidding. The most hilarious part about this thread is listening to Protosses scramble for examples of how their race is on the same level of difficulty as the other two.

Well, look at it this way:
If they only had non moving shooting phoenixes as their units, AND you could even warp them from warpgates, they......actually wouldn't win many games.

I'm Terran, btw, l0l.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 31 2012 10:34 GMT
#63
On July 31 2012 19:31 PatouPower wrote:
I love how this thread turned into yet another shitty balance discussion. lol...

Whiny terrans are good like that.

This is an old bug from the single player, which I sure will be an easy fix.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 10:48:50
July 31 2012 10:44 GMT
#64
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

This completely.

You can now shoot wile moving, but only with micro. I think many micro fans are a fan of this, although maybe not protoss players in general, since it is still a nerf.

That said, I think that maybe the range upgrade should get removed, and phoenix should get 5 range now just to balance things? or would protoss rather have 4+6 still?


On a rather unrelated note: Probably not many people knew this, but scouts had ridiculously good ability to shoot while moving (including backwards) in SC1 when microed — pretty sure the best in the game. People are aware of mutalisk micro vs scourge, but with scouts it's like 3x faster and easier. It made it fun for me to get scouts vs zerg when I'd play PvZ, since while prohibitively expensive, scourges couldn't deal with them, so they were excellent harass (since you can't have hydras everywhere)
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
July 31 2012 10:45 GMT
#65
Hah. Not sure if Blizz is serious or
On July 31 2012 17:21 Advocado wrote:
PHOENIX. Goddamnit.
You need to listen to this song. Your life will never be the same.
+ Show Spoiler +
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
johnny123
Profile Joined February 2012
521 Posts
July 31 2012 10:53 GMT
#66
as it has happened to a lot of mappers, blizzard probably forget to update their dependencies for the melee maps . As funny as it sounds, thats a big face palm from blizzard lol . Easillllyy fixable though.
Favorite players,Stephano/MVP/Nestea/Gumiho/Life/Jaedong/MMA
eusoc
Profile Joined November 2011
Italy82 Posts
July 31 2012 10:56 GMT
#67
On July 31 2012 19:14 dynwar7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings


You know, infestors don't move at 3.75 speed... nor banelings
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
July 31 2012 11:01 GMT
#68
On July 31 2012 19:56 eusoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:14 dynwar7 wrote:
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings


You know, infestors don't move at 3.75 speed... nor banelings


Neither do they shoot while moving. You literally just have to right click phoenixes away from stuff and they do the rest themselves.
KuKri
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany168 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 11:06:49
July 31 2012 11:06 GMT
#69
On July 31 2012 20:01 phodacbiet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:56 eusoc wrote:
On July 31 2012 19:14 dynwar7 wrote:
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings


You know, infestors don't move at 3.75 speed... nor banelings


Neither do they shoot while moving. You literally just have to right click phoenixes away from stuff and they do the rest themselves.

Nonono! You forget that phoenixes are the fastest air unit in the game, and that's problematic, because once you escape the danger zone you quickly end up in another danger zone and you have to move them again!
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
July 31 2012 11:10 GMT
#70
On July 31 2012 20:01 phodacbiet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:56 eusoc wrote:
On July 31 2012 19:14 dynwar7 wrote:
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings


You know, infestors don't move at 3.75 speed... nor banelings


Neither do they shoot while moving. You literally just have to right click phoenixes away from stuff and they do the rest themselves.

Well, technically, banelings shoot while moving ;D
But god I just imagined an infestor auto casting free fungals while moving... Well actually it wasn't that much better than your regular infestor.

*wink*
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
July 31 2012 11:13 GMT
#71
On July 31 2012 19:53 johnny123 wrote:
as it has happened to a lot of mappers, blizzard probably forget to update their dependencies for the melee maps . As funny as it sounds, thats a big face palm from blizzard lol . Easillllyy fixable though.


If Maruader concussive shell does splash it's campaign dependencies, we ran into this before.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Yoduh
Profile Joined August 2010
United States216 Posts
July 31 2012 11:16 GMT
#72
On July 31 2012 19:11 Tazerenix wrote:
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098


oh look, another thread where OP makes a claim that isn't fact checked by anybody until page 3. only 20 more pages of "omg worst nerf ever!!1, blizzard sux!" before this can all die.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
July 31 2012 11:18 GMT
#73
There is only one explanation: the nasl soundguy was also hired by blizzard as a tester.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
July 31 2012 11:19 GMT
#74
On July 31 2012 20:16 Yoduh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:11 Tazerenix wrote:
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098


oh look, another thread where OP makes a claim that isn't fact checked by anybody until page 3. only 20 more pages of "omg worst nerf ever!!1, blizzard sux!" before this can all die.


Oh look another post where someone saw one post and stopped reading the thread right there!

It seems to be an issue in customs, there is multiple replays with issues (that most people CANT watch because 1.5 is not live on their region) and a Youtube video that backs up the theroy. Ladder games might be fine ,or vice versa.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
July 31 2012 11:20 GMT
#75
On July 31 2012 20:16 Yoduh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:11 Tazerenix wrote:
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098


oh look, another thread where OP makes a claim that isn't fact checked by anybody until page 3. only 20 more pages of "omg worst nerf ever!!1, blizzard sux!" before this can all die.


Idk have anyone checked the bunker yet? I think blizzard made it so they can now shoot while moving too =)
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 11:23:40
July 31 2012 11:23 GMT
#76
Phoenix good unit!
This is our town, scrub
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
July 31 2012 11:25 GMT
#77
On July 31 2012 20:20 phodacbiet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:16 Yoduh wrote:
On July 31 2012 19:11 Tazerenix wrote:
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098


oh look, another thread where OP makes a claim that isn't fact checked by anybody until page 3. only 20 more pages of "omg worst nerf ever!!1, blizzard sux!" before this can all die.


Idk have anyone checked the bunker yet? I think blizzard made it so they can now shoot while moving too =)


bunkers dont exist anymore, blizzard decided it is enough time to nerf them.
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
July 31 2012 11:25 GMT
#78
On July 31 2012 19:56 eusoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 19:14 dynwar7 wrote:
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings


You know, infestors don't move at 3.75 speed... nor banelings


So? So what?

Phoenixs are super quick. Yes MM can stim, but on creep its tough. Really tough having to split vs banelings and infestors because if infestors can fungal a big clump, then a few banelings will finish that.

But I dont want to turn this into a TvP thread. I'll let other experienced terran players tell you.....if you dont think so, try playing MM vs bling infestors without tanks. If marines and marauders shoot while moving, of course I can just stim and move back
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
July 31 2012 11:27 GMT
#79
On July 31 2012 17:15 Demizzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.


You know Mutas shit all over Phoenixes once the numbers get big enough, right? With or without the upgrade. So to take out moving shot would make them even more useless than before. Blink stalkers and storm are still the preferred method for dealing with mutas for a reason. Phoenixes just aren't good.


moving shot? Phoenixes don't have moving shot.
Yoduh
Profile Joined August 2010
United States216 Posts
July 31 2012 11:28 GMT
#80
On July 31 2012 20:19 Diamond wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 20:16 Yoduh wrote:
On July 31 2012 19:11 Tazerenix wrote:
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098


oh look, another thread where OP makes a claim that isn't fact checked by anybody until page 3. only 20 more pages of "omg worst nerf ever!!1, blizzard sux!" before this can all die.


Oh look another post where someone saw one post and stopped reading the thread right there!

It seems to be an issue in customs, there is multiple replays with issues (that most people CANT watch because 1.5 is not live on their region) and a Youtube video that backs up the theroy. Ladder games might be fine ,or vice versa.


if I stopped at that post, how many more people do you think are going to even read past the OP?
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