MOD EDIT: There are serious problems with custom games at the moment. The maps seem to be using balance data from some pre-beta patch. Phoenixes don't shoot while moving, Thors are super large, Roaches are 1 supply.. etc.
Just played a game with my friend and noticed that phoenixes no longer attack while moving. Unless this is some weird stealth nerf to protoss, I am 100% sure this is a bug and it needs to be addressed immediately by blizzard.
Edit: Since most ppl don't have the the 1.5patch I'll upload a video.
On August 01 2012 01:53 Antoine wrote: I tried this myself, and on Cloud Kingdom LE (uploaded by Blizzard), it worked normally. On Crux Whirlwind (not uploaded by Blizzard), it worked like in the OP (that is to say, no gliding shot). Sounds like custom mappers might have to make a change in their triggers with the patch.
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft
We haven't seen an "age of phoenix domination" affecting every P game, so I don't think this is an intended nerf. In fact we barely see phoenixes, so I'll go with bug..
Sounds like there is/was a problem to activate multiplayer balance (that info is stored in its own archive file). Enjoy version 1.0 and warp in your storms as long as you can.
I guess it was a mistake leave out all balance changes on the beta realm. Or they just forgot to include it in the release (after the beta).
Now that you mention it, warpgate timing in that particular game is 140 seconds as opposed to the 160 IIRC, and that observers are 50/100 as opposed to 25/75 nowadays.
The balance was also weird in custom games in the 1.5 Beta, but only because the streaming version of the game had a strange merge with previous patches of the game, thus resulting in a bunch of random balance values from all over SC2's history, including from the Beta.
I think a complete download should fix it in custom games, and maybe it might not even be an issue on ladder. Hopefully, tournament organizers won't be playing the game on a streaming, unfinished client.
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote: I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
You know Mutas shit all over Phoenixes once the numbers get big enough, right? With or without the upgrade. So to take out moving shot would make them even more useless than before. Blink stalkers and storm are still the preferred method for dealing with mutas for a reason. Phoenixes just aren't good.
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote: I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft
Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.
And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote: I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
You know Mutas shit all over Phoenixes once the numbers get big enough, right? With or without the upgrade. So to take out moving shot would make them even more useless than before. Blink stalkers and storm are still the preferred method for dealing with mutas for a reason. Phoenixes just aren't good.
This is a huge change that allows a Phoenix to dance around Mutalisks and other air units and attack them while moving. Phoenix always did hard-counter Mutalisks, but now even a very small number of Phoenix can challenge a very large number of Mutalisks so long as they are willing to attack and move away. Use your Phoenix to keep out of the Mutalisk attack range while firing yourself and you can do a lot of damage to a pack of Mutalisks.
..It's a numbers and micro thing. phoenixes should be able to shit all over mutas. But if you are very outnumbered and don't control them properly, the phoenixes are a complete waste. I still think range 6 and fire while moving is now a very strange combination, that I'm not surprised if blizzard is questioning.
Yeah odd stuff has happened before in Custom Games after a new patch. Perhaps redownloading the maps works. Try clearing all Battle.net cache and then play it again (remove C:\ProgramData\Blizzard Entertainment\Battle.net\ @ Win7).
On July 31 2012 17:26 phodacbiet wrote: You do know beta patch is like 2 patches behind right? Because they arent testing balance in beta, they are testing the bnet features.
This is about the 1.5 patch on SEA, the final one not the beta one.
On July 31 2012 17:26 dani` wrote: Yeah odd stuff has happened before in Custom Games after a new patch. Perhaps redownloading the maps works. Try clearing all Battle.net cache and then play it again (remove C:\ProgramData\Blizzard Entertainment\Battle.net\ @ Win7).
On July 31 2012 17:26 phodacbiet wrote: You do know beta patch is like 2 patches behind right? Because they arent testing balance in beta, they are testing the bnet features.
This is about the 1.5 patch on SEA, the final one not the beta one.
Ah in that case its probably just blizz being blizz.
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote: I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
You know Mutas shit all over Phoenixes once the numbers get big enough, right? With or without the upgrade. So to take out moving shot would make them even more useless than before. Blink stalkers and storm are still the preferred method for dealing with mutas for a reason. Phoenixes just aren't good.
This is a huge change that allows a Phoenix to dance around Mutalisks and other air units and attack them while moving. Phoenix always did hard-counter Mutalisks, but now even a very small number of Phoenix can challenge a very large number of Mutalisks so long as they are willing to attack and move away. Use your Phoenix to keep out of the Mutalisk attack range while firing yourself and you can do a lot of damage to a pack of Mutalisks.
..It's a numbers and micro thing. phoenixes should be able to shit all over mutas. But if you are very outnumbered and don't control them properly, the phoenixes are a complete waste. I still think range 6 and fire while moving is now a very strange combination, that I'm not surprised if blizzard is questioning.
I can see where you're coming from, range 6 with moving shot seems indeed a bit redundant. But problem is, they don't have the fleet beacon (!) upgrade by default. Range 4 phoenix without moving shot is pitifully bad.
EPT
