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On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.
hard counter eh? do you even know what that means?
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On July 31 2012 17:14 eviltomahawk wrote:
The balance was also weird in custom games in the 1.5 Beta, but only because the streaming version of the game had a strange merge with previous patches of the game, thus resulting in a bunch of random balance values from all over SC2's history, including from the Beta.
I think a complete download should fix it in custom games, and maybe it might not even be an issue on ladder. Hopefully, tournament organizers won't be playing the game on a streaming, unfinished client.
Hmm, interesting. Yeah, the streaming game thing may be what is causing the problem.
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On July 31 2012 18:11 MrGio wrote:
It's ok. Now protoss needs more micro.
Man, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to look more ignorant if you tried. With moving shot phoenix are only barely useful in very specific situations, take that away and they are basically flying paperweights.
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I'd rather have stonger Phoenixes with no moving shot tbh. This is probably a bug though.
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On July 31 2012 18:05 Yamulo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft I think I have seen that upgrade like 3 times out of hundreds of PvZs I've seen
i pretty much always see it if zerg keeps on making mutas and has a late hive. and at that point if you have e good amount of phoenix with the upgrade, you win.
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On July 31 2012 17:32 Cutlery wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Not sure your first paragraph isn't contradicting itself. And yes, hitting S every second for some micro wouldn't be bad considering that it's starcraft. They won't deccelerate enough to be caught by the mutas. I can understand that their speed make them a difficult tool, but it also gives them their great potential.
Guess you never played PvZ and got phoenix vs mutas... phoenix is he most micro-intensive unit, half a second and you may end up losing all your units to mutas, to actually use them you must ALWAYS keep them moving, while warping on the other side of the map. Marine/Maruader vs Baneling/Infestor? It's all done in 10s, not a whole game microing 4-5 units. Even with range upgrade phoenix are too few to properly counter mutas, so I think this is a huge bug, as OP said.
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On July 31 2012 18:14 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. hard counter eh? do you even know what that means?
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Hard_Counters_and_Soft_Counters
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I think its a custom game bug only. Currently nRvBard is streaming and he's got flux vanes, amulet for templars and the warpgate bug too. I don't think this affects ladder since he tried it in teams and it did not work.
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yeah custom game with 150/150 stimpack -.-a 100/100 for CS
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in my mod SC2BW im currently having massive issues with the order of dependencies being screwed up.
that is to say i have some units in a file. that are lower priority than other files. the top file takes priority. overriding the lower priority changes. thats how it's meant to work atleast.
alot of my low level changes are popping up and interfering with my mod. units having the wrong amount of hitpoints for example.
i think thats what is happening here. starcraft isn't loading it's files in the correct order and you have these old patch changes leaking through.
atleast thats my theory.
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hehe if this is the truth , all the zergs will be happy like me =P
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On July 31 2012 18:38 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 18:05 Yamulo wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft I think I have seen that upgrade like 3 times out of hundreds of PvZs I've seen i pretty much always see it if zerg keeps on making mutas and has a late hive. and at that point if you have e good amount of phoenix with the upgrade, you win.
Are you talking about pro games or ladder games, because it sounds like the latter.
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If it's not in the patch notes then it's a bug that will be fixed. To the people saying Phoenix are micro intensive, lol. I wouldn't expect any Protoss player below Top8 Masters to know what "micro intensive" means.
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You do realize bugs can and do occur for a percentage of users and not neccessarily everyone? That's how bugs usually get through.
The OP even posted a video.
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On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.
Uhh.
Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings 
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On July 31 2012 19:05 MysteryTerran wrote:
If it's not in the patch notes then it's a bug that will be fixed. To the people saying Phoenix are micro intensive, lol. I wouldn't expect any Protoss player below Top8 Masters to know what "micro intensive" means.
No kidding. The most hilarious part about this thread is listening to Protosses scramble for examples of how their race is on the same level of difficulty as the other two.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
