• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:30
CEST 12:30
KST 19:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins0[$1250] International ShieldBattery League36Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War1425.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Stellar Fest 2 Replay Pack
Tourneys
WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch Bot on ladder BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [Women's StarCraft] Tier 8 CK 2026-10-20 [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
The Chess Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9680 users

Patch 1.5: Custom Game Use Old Balance Patch - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Rice
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1332 Posts
July 31 2012 09:14 GMT
#41
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.


hard counter eh? do you even know what that means?
Freedom will be defended at the cost of civil liberties.
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
July 31 2012 09:15 GMT
#42
On July 31 2012 17:14 eviltomahawk wrote:
The balance was also weird in custom games in the 1.5 Beta, but only because the streaming version of the game had a strange merge with previous patches of the game, thus resulting in a bunch of random balance values from all over SC2's history, including from the Beta.

I think a complete download should fix it in custom games, and maybe it might not even be an issue on ladder. Hopefully, tournament organizers won't be playing the game on a streaming, unfinished client.


Hmm, interesting. Yeah, the streaming game thing may be what is causing the problem.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
July 31 2012 09:17 GMT
#43
On July 31 2012 18:11 MrGio wrote:
It's ok. Now protoss needs more micro.


Man, i'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to look more ignorant if you tried. With moving shot phoenix are only barely useful in very specific situations, take that away and they are basically flying paperweights.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
July 31 2012 09:22 GMT
#44
I'd rather have stonger Phoenixes with no moving shot tbh. This is probably a bug though.
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
July 31 2012 09:38 GMT
#45
On July 31 2012 18:05 Yamulo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

I think I have seen that upgrade like 3 times out of hundreds of PvZs I've seen


i pretty much always see it if zerg keeps on making mutas and has a late hive. and at that point if you have e good amount of phoenix with the upgrade, you win.
savior did nothing wrong
eusoc
Profile Joined November 2011
Italy82 Posts
July 31 2012 09:38 GMT
#46
On July 31 2012 17:32 Cutlery wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Not sure your first paragraph isn't contradicting itself. And yes, hitting S every second for some micro wouldn't be bad considering that it's starcraft. They won't deccelerate enough to be caught by the mutas. I can understand that their speed make them a difficult tool, but it also gives them their great potential.


Guess you never played PvZ and got phoenix vs mutas... phoenix is he most micro-intensive unit, half a second and you may end up losing all your units to mutas, to actually use them you must ALWAYS keep them moving, while warping on the other side of the map. Marine/Maruader vs Baneling/Infestor? It's all done in 10s, not a whole game microing 4-5 units. Even with range upgrade phoenix are too few to properly counter mutas, so I think this is a huge bug, as OP said.

DrAbuse
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany209 Posts
July 31 2012 09:40 GMT
#47
On July 31 2012 18:14 Rice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.


hard counter eh? do you even know what that means?


http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Hard_Counters_and_Soft_Counters
eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/186292/1/DrAbuse/
etherealfall
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia476 Posts
July 31 2012 09:41 GMT
#48
I think its a custom game bug only. Currently nRvBard is streaming and he's got flux vanes, amulet for templars and the warpgate bug too. I don't think this affects ladder since he tried it in teams and it did not work.
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
July 31 2012 09:45 GMT
#49
yeah custom game with 150/150 stimpack -.-a 100/100 for CS
@taefoxy
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
July 31 2012 09:48 GMT
#50
in my mod SC2BW im currently having massive issues with the order of dependencies being screwed up.

that is to say i have some units in a file. that are lower priority than other files. the top file takes priority. overriding the lower priority changes. thats how it's meant to work atleast.

alot of my low level changes are popping up and interfering with my mod. units having the wrong amount of hitpoints for example.

i think thats what is happening here. starcraft isn't loading it's files in the correct order and you have these old patch changes leaking through.

atleast thats my theory.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
S2Glow
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Singapore1042 Posts
July 31 2012 09:59 GMT
#51
hehe if this is the truth , all the zergs will be happy like me =P
<3 Katelyn , C Zerg. Dying wish is to watch proleague live and see my girlfriend which gonna be soon! <33
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
July 31 2012 10:03 GMT
#52
On July 31 2012 18:38 EleanorRIgby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 18:05 Yamulo wrote:
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

I think I have seen that upgrade like 3 times out of hundreds of PvZs I've seen


i pretty much always see it if zerg keeps on making mutas and has a late hive. and at that point if you have e good amount of phoenix with the upgrade, you win.

Are you talking about pro games or ladder games, because it sounds like the latter.
MysteryTerran
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States178 Posts
July 31 2012 10:05 GMT
#53
If it's not in the patch notes then it's a bug that will be fixed. To the people saying Phoenix are micro intensive, lol. I wouldn't expect any Protoss player below Top8 Masters to know what "micro intensive" means.
Playing Protoss is like playing Guitar Hero on Very Easy
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 10:12:07
July 31 2012 10:11 GMT
#54
Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.

http://drop.sc/232098
mutantmagnet
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3807 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 10:16:14
July 31 2012 10:14 GMT
#55



You do realize bugs can and do occur for a percentage of users and not neccessarily everyone? That's how bugs usually get through.

The OP even posted a video.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
July 31 2012 10:14 GMT
#56
On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.

Would make sense.. But might be a bug.

With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft

Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix.

And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.



Uhh.

Ok, I agree with the other guy who said to try play marine & Marauder vs banelings infestor. Then you know what micro intensive means. truly, 1 second you look away, you look back and you only see banelings
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
mutantmagnet
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3807 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-31 10:16:03
July 31 2012 10:15 GMT
#57
*bah double post*
exog
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway279 Posts
July 31 2012 10:23 GMT
#58
Loving it!
_Search_
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada180 Posts
July 31 2012 10:26 GMT
#59
On July 31 2012 19:05 MysteryTerran wrote:
If it's not in the patch notes then it's a bug that will be fixed. To the people saying Phoenix are micro intensive, lol. I wouldn't expect any Protoss player below Top8 Masters to know what "micro intensive" means.


No kidding. The most hilarious part about this thread is listening to Protosses scramble for examples of how their race is on the same level of difficulty as the other two.

User was temp banned for this post.
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1982 Posts
July 31 2012 10:28 GMT
#60
so this patch is bugged?
Total Annihilation Zero
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 10 11 12 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Classic 85
Lowko29
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2549
Bisu 787
Horang2 607
Soma 491
Hyuk 383
Larva 309
EffOrt 220
Killer 187
Light 122
Rush 121
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 109
sorry 109
ZergMaN 97
ZerO 92
Pusan 84
Leta 75
Stork 73
Mind 66
Hyun 55
Bale 30
Shinee 26
Barracks 21
Shine 17
Mini 14
yabsab 13
Creator 9
Sexy 9
Terrorterran 8
Sacsri 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 385
XcaliburYe81
League of Legends
JimRising 362
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1406
kennyS1096
byalli483
allub448
x6flipin19
Other Games
singsing1846
crisheroes233
dupreeh195
Pyrionflax186
Sick183
RotterdaM65
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick425
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH301
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV271
League of Legends
• Stunt550
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
30m
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Solar
PiGosaur Cup
13h 30m
The PondCast
23h 30m
Kung Fu Cup
1d
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
FEL
3 days
Patches Events
4 days
FEL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.