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On July 31 2012 21:28 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 20:54 dynwar7 wrote:
Moving a unit that auto attacks is not micro intensive ok, full stop. At the same time MM are so vulnerable to fungal and blings. they get fungaled in a big clump, then say goodbye to that as banelings easily destroy those clumped units. Everybody knows MM vs bling infestor is super hard vs a decent zerg....no need to argue here to make your protoss look micro intensive....but as I said, you can say what you want, I dont want to turn this thread into this kind of discussion.
Peace. Try doing it for an entire game straight whilst simultaneously macroing, building a ground army, taking expansions, etc etc.
You don't actually have to continuously dance MM around banelings and infestors for minutes at a time. The fight is over one way or the other in a few seconds. In terms of concentrated burst APM it may be higher, but you don't need the same endurance as you do for Phoenix not to die to...well...everything. Phoenix are micro-intensive in that they take up massive amounts of your attention and time to use. They're not micro-intensive in terms of pure burst APM.
Yeah because this makes sense.
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On July 31 2012 21:01 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 20:54 dynwar7 wrote:On July 31 2012 20:40 Diamond wrote:On July 31 2012 20:38 dynwar7 wrote:StimmedProbe....if you are reading, please edit your original post....one guy up there said it is fine "Just tested on Patch 1.5. Phoenix still fires whilst moving. Everyone calm down.
http://drop.sc/232098" Cmon man read further..... Sorry, I cant find anything, what did I miss? O.o Apparently the bottom half of last page.
Can you just quote it? I cannot find it sir.. -.-
On July 31 2012 21:28 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 20:54 dynwar7 wrote:
Moving a unit that auto attacks is not micro intensive ok, full stop. At the same time MM are so vulnerable to fungal and blings. they get fungaled in a big clump, then say goodbye to that as banelings easily destroy those clumped units. Everybody knows MM vs bling infestor is super hard vs a decent zerg....no need to argue here to make your protoss look micro intensive....but as I said, you can say what you want, I dont want to turn this thread into this kind of discussion.
Peace. Try doing it for an entire game straight whilst simultaneously macroing, building a ground army, taking expansions, etc etc. You don't actually have to continuously dance MM around banelings and infestors for minutes at a time. The fight is over one way or the other in a few seconds. In terms of concentrated burst APM it may be higher, but you don't need the same endurance as you do for Phoenix not to die to...well...everything. Phoenix are micro-intensive in that they take up massive amounts of your attention and time to use. They're not micro-intensive in terms of pure burst APM.
Entire game, really? Really?
Ok, they may be micro intensive, but it is easy micro, since they shoot while moving....such a huge advantage....then if anything happens (you need to spend time more on macro), they can just run away since they are the fastest air units right? Outrun those mutas. Not only that, but phoenixes arent that weak vs mutas, whereas bio ball die so easily to banelings and they cannot shoot while moving. If they could shoot while moving, and not be as vulnerable like MM is to blings, I'll take that any day....Yes...Mutas do splash damage, but the damage is very small compared to bling splash which could potentially kill your whole bio ball.
EDIT: Could someone just tell me if this bug is still there? Or it has been fixed?
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Oddly enough I was having this problem messing around in the campaign the other day. Maybe there's been a subtle bug in game for a while?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
hmmm well this sounds like quite the bug o.O
i think MMM micro is harder than phoenix micro though
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I think it's ok to remove the attack-while-moving mechanic when you get the range upgrade for Phoenix, but without the range, it seems pretty dumb.
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I faced this bug too :/ I typically open stargate into 3/4 phoenix and this stupid bug is ridiculous
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if this goes through the pheonix might just be more useless than the carrier unless you're playing pvp..
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well at least u guys can play
I CANT EVEN PLAY ATM!! T.T
anyone knows what going on?
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Either bug or massive nerf.
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On July 31 2012 22:28 Haustka wrote:
well at least u guys can play
I CANT EVEN PLAY ATM!! T.T
anyone knows what going on?
Server maintenance, yo. It's tuesday ;_;
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Comparing phoenix micro to MM engagements is silly. Phoenixes are not core units, they are an investment that has to do damage. Inactive phoenixes are a huge waste of money and can lose you the game straight up.
Microing phoenixes may not be too complicated, but you have to babysit them constantly - very much like ZvT mutas. Combined with macro tasks, and microing your ground army, this becomes pretty difficult.
So yes, it does take great skill to use them effectively.
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On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft
no if you cant shoot while moving you cant fight vs mutas anymore as micro would be almost impossible
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last time phnx were bugged it lasted like 2 weeks, made phnx builds useless and ruined a lot of PvX MU's in tournies, hope it doesnt take this long this time, phnx is huge in PvP atm, if asus rogue is played with this bug, all results are null.
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On July 31 2012 22:55 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft no if you cant shoot while moving you cant fight vs mutas anymore as micro would be almost impossible
its hard enough to multi task with phnx vs muta even with the range upgraded attack while moving, to make them not attack while moving would make this 2x more micro intensive than any other unit in the game.
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Units like Vikings and Corruptors are usually much easier to use correctly than Phoenix, even if you don't have to do the oh so hard A-move with it. I play Zerg nowdays, so im not biased either.
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I welcome the bug fix from the Title's OP from Pheonix to Phoenix. A most welcomed patch. Apart from that, the phoenix change is most likely a bug since it wasn't mentioned in patch notes.
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On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game.
Just a point of clarification. Phoenix are by no means "Glass-Cannons". Compare with the other Air Units. I didn't include Voidrays/Corruptors for obvious reasons as they're meant to take down Capital Ships.
Banshees - 140
Vikings - 125
Mutalisk - 120
Phoenix - 120hp/60 Shields
When you compare it with the other race's air-units, the Phoenix is actually pretty beefy.
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On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft
The range upgrade only gets used like once in a blue moon. You have to get fleet beacon to use it. Pheonix were balanced around moving while shooting(They are weak as fuck) if you want to add more micro I'm fine with that, but at least give them some more hp or higher damage or something....
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Is the US server up? It won't let me login but weirdly it wont let me login offline or as a guest.
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Am i the only one who saw this coming even if it was or wasn't an intentional bug?
I mean come on guys... auto shooting planes where you just have to click around. If terrans and zergs have to multitask their flying units, aka mutas/banshees/vikings/corruptors, im not surprised pheonix gets the same treatment
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EPT
