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Edit: my bad I don't know what it is but there is a difference to the ingame feel.
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On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations.
In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots
Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not.
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this is why you don't mess with streaming clients for your competitive game, gg blizz!
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On July 31 2012 20:35 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2012 20:27 wcr.4fun wrote:On July 31 2012 17:15 Demizzle wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
You know Mutas shit all over Phoenixes once the numbers get big enough, right? With or without the upgrade. So to take out moving shot would make them even more useless than before. Blink stalkers and storm are still the preferred method for dealing with mutas for a reason. Phoenixes just aren't good. moving shot? Phoenixes don't have moving shot. Yes they do?
No.. Phoenix have 'gliding shot'. Moving shot is something completely different.
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Several people have updated their clients and found the Phoenixes working perfectly, myself included. This is either a rare bug, or a complete hoax.
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On August 01 2012 00:59 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations. In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not.
It's because if they're idiots they'll usually be banned before hitting 500+ posts. TL does a pretty good job at weeding them out.
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On August 01 2012 00:58 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 00:55 Dagan159 wrote:On August 01 2012 00:54 conz wrote:
No unit is the same, just tested. no other unit can attack while on a move command, just tested. Knock it off. The phoenix has been designed around shooting while moving from day one, and they wouldn't remove the capacity to do so without something in the patch notes. The unit can be balanced around moving while shooting. Not every unit has to act the same for the game to be balanced, nor should it be that way.
Phoenix hasnt had range upgrade since the start. if you cant step micro range 6 vs range 3.... too bad.
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On August 01 2012 00:58 goiflin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 00:55 Dagan159 wrote:On August 01 2012 00:54 conz wrote:
No unit is the same, just tested. no other unit can attack while on a move command, just tested. Knock it off. The phoenix has been designed around shooting while moving from day one, and they wouldn't remove the capacity to do so without something in the patch notes. The unit can be balanced around moving while shooting. Not every unit has to act the same for the game to be balanced, nor should it be that way.
Actually the phoenix was originally not designed to move and shoot from day 1. That patch only happened in the beta soon after this thread complained about the lack of "moving shot" using phoenix vs muta as an example. though it wasn't exactly what it was asking for.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121769
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On August 01 2012 01:04 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 00:59 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations. In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not. It's because if they're idiots they'll usually be banned before hitting 500+ posts. TL does a pretty good job at weeding them out.
I kinda wish there was an option to hid them and make my life easier.
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On August 01 2012 01:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 01:04 Skwid1g wrote:On August 01 2012 00:59 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations. In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not. It's because if they're idiots they'll usually be banned before hitting 500+ posts. TL does a pretty good job at weeding them out. I kinda wish there was an option to hid them and make my life easier.
Oh god yes please!
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On August 01 2012 01:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 01:04 Skwid1g wrote:On August 01 2012 00:59 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations. In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not. It's because if they're idiots they'll usually be banned before hitting 500+ posts. TL does a pretty good job at weeding them out. I kinda wish there was an option to hid them and make my life easier.
I wish there was an option to hide people with under 2000 posts because they're worthless to me. 
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On August 01 2012 00:21 xza wrote:
Am i the only one who saw this coming even if it was or wasn't an intentional bug?
I mean come on guys... auto shooting planes where you just have to click around. If terrans and zergs have to multitask their flying units, aka mutas/banshees/vikings/corruptors, im not surprised pheonix gets the same treatment
You were wrong in seeing it coming as it isn't happening, it's a bug that is/will be fixed. Phoenix couldn't move and shoot when they first existed it was only added later. Why would blizzard revert that change when there has been nothing even close to showing that it's OP?
You can't just compare any unit to another just because they can both fly, all units are designed differently.
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Ohhhh nooooooo
Protoss will actually have to press the a button instead of just moving now
User was temp banned for this post.
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lrn2 micro
User was warned for this post
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On August 01 2012 00:24 Kergy wrote:
I still haven't seen the phoenix range upgrade in a pro game yet -_-
No one really makes enough phoenix to warrant the upgrade, which is a mistake in p v z imo.
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On August 01 2012 00:21 xza wrote:
Am i the only one who saw this coming even if it was or wasn't an intentional bug?
I mean come on guys... auto shooting planes where you just have to click around. If terrans and zergs have to multitask their flying units, aka mutas/banshees/vikings/corruptors, im not surprised pheonix gets the same treatment
That's right! And also, floating buildings, if zerg and protoss needs to multitask to save their bases, im surprised why CC and orbitals shouldn't have the same treatment
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Confirmed today with the final released version on NA, that is is not true. Phoenix can still attack while moving.
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On August 01 2012 01:19 Neurosis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 00:24 Kergy wrote:
I still haven't seen the phoenix range upgrade in a pro game yet -_- No one really makes enough phoenix to warrant the upgrade, which is a mistake in p v z imo.
It's too much of a commitment even if you manage to kill the mutas you will either have your phoenixes killed by corrupters or you will be destroyed by a tech switch as you're stuck with a huge amount of useless phoenixes
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I used to hate Phoenixes that could move and shoot, I mean... the range upgrade is pretty far away, not sure why they'd remove the funamentals of phoenix.
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On August 01 2012 01:08 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 01:07 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2012 01:04 Skwid1g wrote:On August 01 2012 00:59 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On August 01 2012 00:56 docvoc wrote:On July 31 2012 17:45 jeffvip wrote:On July 31 2012 17:19 convention wrote:On July 31 2012 16:56 Cutlery wrote:
I was thinking this to myself a few weeks back. Now that phoenix got the range upgrade, the change which let them attack while moving no longer follows logic reasoing? I don't remember the comment for that change, but do you really need range 6 AND firing while moving? I'm pretty sure this was mainly to deal with mutas -- now done by the range upgrade instead.
Would make sense.. But might be a bug.
With micro you can still get them to fire while moving, can you not? Not necessarily a bad change, to demand micro, for a game like starcraft Without move and shoot on phoenix, mutas hard counter phoenix. With move and shoot but small range, unless a top pro player is controlling the phoenix: mutas hard counter phoenix. Only non-pros get the range upgrade, which allows lower level players to actually counter mutas with phoenix. And are you really demanding micro for a fast moving, low HP glass-cannon that has to use an ability on each ground unit it attacks? Phoenix are one of the most, if not the most, micro intensive units in the game. Try play Marine & Marauder against Baneling & Infestor if you really want to know what does 'micro intensive' means All I can hear is QQ about how terran micro is infinitely harder than protoss micro, and some bolding here. This isn't even on point, that is comparing controlling 1 unit with a range upgrade that can't attack ground vs a unit that can't attack while moving but does splash and can attack ground, to 2 units vs 2 units with much different abilities in different situations. In threads like this... it's best to ignore people with under 200 posts they are usually 1)Trolls 2)Idiots Note: I am NOT saying every person under 200 posts doesn't have good input. Just saying that in balance discussion threads I see way more stupid/troll posts from people with really low post counts then not. It's because if they're idiots they'll usually be banned before hitting 500+ posts. TL does a pretty good job at weeding them out. I kinda wish there was an option to hid them and make my life easier. I wish there was an option to hide people with under 2000 posts because they're worthless to me.
I kinda wish there was an option to hide everyone, so I can always have an uncontested opinion.
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EPT
