So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.
Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.
I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...
Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool from which they draw their best/brightest players is much larger.
The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males, as we see today.
As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.
I think this has long been a advertising slogan, but it's a pretty simple truth, "sex sells".
It's fine to use sexiness to appeal to a wider audience, so long as it doesn't interfere with requirements/skill level of certain jobs (casting/playing/etc). Just look at cheerleaders for other sports, they're the sex appeal for the sport, but they don't interfere with the importance of the sport either, you don't see sexy females trying to cast a basketball game, do you?, nor do you see sexy females trying to play, as well.
If they are going to use hot women maybe they can make the male hosts look a little bit better or dress better. Some of them just look sloppy compared to the female host.
I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?
are people jsut conveniently forgetting Scarlett?
if you go to an event, and you beat someone whos known you become known
the scene is outrageously hard to break into for everyone equally because all the scene actually cares about is skill thats why invite only tournaments or tournaments with only small number of spots given to open tournament qualifiers are so rare, its why some people dont watch tournys that dont have Koreans becuase ll people care about is skill
it doesnt matter if your black, asian, white, fat, skinny, muscular, lean, have great fasion sense, terrible fasion sense, bald, 10 foot pink mohawk or say all your sentences backward, if you go into a tournament and beat amazing players in amazing ways you will get tons of fans and most of them wont even know what you look like
It's one way, but then again for instance Destiny has a bigger fan base than code A together probably. Streaming is probably the best way to get a fan base if that's what you want.
So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.
Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.
I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...
Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool .
The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males.
As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.
Basically... we need more Scarlett.
playing devils advocate, if this was the case, wouldn't we see a influx of female grandmaster chess players? again, still predominately male. poker? predominately male.
now I'm not necessarily chopping this up to be "MEN BETTER THAN FEMALE, NO MATTER WHAT", but it does beg the question, "why?" I think a lot of it has to do with social stereotypes, and how they're often self fulfilling process.
Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2.
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote: Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.
Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.
I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.
I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.
Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.
Eye candy presenters are not ideal, but hey, I'd rather watch eye candy than some clueless guy who makes jokes about how many times his nose was broken.
The sad truth is that most people aren't particularly interested in knowledgeable commentators/presenters. They'll take it, but only if it's included with good presentation.
And yes, I'll come out and say that a hottie with knowledge is my ideal presenter.
How else are females going to be present in SC2 besides just being eye candy or some other non competing role? I mean if a female was as good as stephano or MKP or DRG etc. then it would be easy to just send them to events to compete, but there is so far none of that for any competitive game I can think of that had a female in the normal roster. Also seperate tournaments for men/females just doesn't seem right to me when you try to be the best, and you can't do that when you seperate.
So there is either being eye candy or just annoucing/interviewing players.
On July 18 2012 11:57 Yaotzin wrote: Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.
Well in football (the real one, silly...every other country in the world!) we have that same thing. I mean you may not know who John Madden is but suffice it to say that he's a former player/coach/broadcaster whose contributions to a broadcast included telling you how many points a touchdown is worth....
On July 18 2012 11:57 Yaotzin wrote: Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.
Well in football (the real one, silly...every other country in the world!) we have that same thing. I mean you may not know who John Madden is but suffice it to say that he's a former player/coach/broadcaster whose contributions to a broadcast included telling you how many points a touchdown is worth....
Oh even I know who Madden is. Which, it seems, is pretty much why he's a commentator.
The only game I can think of where this doesn't happen is cricket. For some reason the guys doing that often really do know their stuff.
Sorry-- this is part of show business. You think those hot female sideline interviewers they have in football are there because of their interviewing skills? Cheerleaders are there cause of their ability to rally a team? Booth girls because of their knowledge of technical issues that may arise pre game? That sexy bikini chick holding the sign in a boxing match cause of her ability to not trip over herself?
Look at some honest examples from other competitive arenas and then swallow your moral outrage. It's one thing to say "I hate that they used an unqualified caster/commentator/whatever" and another to say "this demeans women" because sexualization is part of entertainment and plenty of women don't mind being attractive or sexy for an audience as part of their job... Same works for guys. Tasteless would not be as big a deal as he is if not for his looks.
So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.
Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.
I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...
Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool from which they draw their best/brightest players is much larger.
The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males, as we see today.
As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.
Basically... we need more Scarlett.
personally i have a problem if scarlett plays in female only tournaments. its unfair to the other girls in it who were born with no y chromosome
its the y chromosome that produces more aggressive and combative traits in humans. without it females are at a genetic disadvantage.
ok when i said the y chromosome, i meant testosterone mostly but its not JUST testosterone. only humans with the y chromosome (males) will experience huge testosterone boosts in their life.
but i dont think its JUST testosterone. one can make a very plausible theory that the y chromosome also effects brain formation to cause more aggressive and combative brains in humans. but thats just my theory
On July 18 2012 12:16 Zahir wrote: Sorry-- this is part of show business. You think those hot female sideline interviewers they have in football are there because of their interviewing skills? Cheerleaders are there cause of their ability to rally a team? Booth girls because of their knowledge of technical issues that may arise pre game? That sexy bikini chick holding the sign in a boxing match cause of her ability to not trip over herself?
Look at some honest examples from other competitive arenas and then swallow your moral outrage. It's one thing to say "I hate that they used an unqualified caster/commentator/whatever" and another to say "this demeans women" because sexualization is part of entertainment and plenty of women don't mind being attractive or sexy for an audience as part of their job... Same works for guys. Tasteless would not be as big a deal as he is if not for his looks.
In terms of basketball, a lot of the female commentators aren't exactly sexy, or good looking by any means, but they do a really good job at interviews, especially Cheryl Miller.
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote: Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.
Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.
I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.
I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.
I can't disagree with you at all here. Hiring someone just because they are attractive is borderline outragious; there are tons of people in the community giving up their lives just to attempt to make it "in."
There are also tons of experienced hosts outside the community who, be it their positive energy, looks, stage presence, etc., have a lot to offer. It doesn't take a lot of Starcraft knowledge to host a SC event. Anyone can learn tournament brackets and a couple anecdotes to tell the crowd. I am all for having a super experienced host who may know nothing about SC beforehand, as long as they are trying their hardest and doing a good job. Snoop Dogg as a future host of MLG? YES PLEASE.
But someone who is just attractive who doesn't have any idea what's really going on and isn't making a serious effort, just parading around being pretty, that's just bad.
I admittedly didn`t watch all of NASL but from what I saw her role doesn`t really require her to know much about starcraft. To me she was eye candy much like those UFC ring girls, I don`t need them to know jack about sc2. I thought the host was Day9 and Soe or am I missing something?
Looking good is a gift, not an accomplishment. It's true that it's little different to being smart though. The working hard one is more debateable, but one can make a case.
EPT
