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How to present females in the SCII-community?

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 22:58 GMT
#1
Dear people of TeamLiquid. What I am writing is about how women are represented in the SCII community. I got to thinking of it because of the NASLs recent choice of hosts, in this case Lauren Elise. This is not criticism of her in any way, but only my own reflections on how much of an issue gender is. I hope I put this in the right forum. If not so, please redirect me..

I have been playing Starcraft for quite some time now and as every other player have I gotten to know the scene. I have seen a positive, supporting community, that is very male-dominated. It is natural that the community is dominated by the target audience of the game companies. From this you could come to the conclusion that hiring a good looking woman to be a host at an event is not a bad idea, since the majority of the audience might appreciate it.

I am not going to go on about why objectifying people is bad etc, even though there is a lot to say about that. Instead I am going to talk about the Starcraft II scene and how it is affected by this, seemingly harmless, choice of an attractive hostess.

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.

Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless. Having a playboy model as hostess gives the image that a woman in e-sports is a decoration for the male-dominated audience to enjoy. She is not a part of the event, even less so because of the fact that she was (probably) headhunted and has nothing to do with the community whatsoever.

Lastly, Lauren Elise should not be blamed for this, even though she probably will be by some people. Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts. The NASL should understand that, and the people working with big events should take the responsibility that comes with popularity. It is only until the majority of the people in e-sports want equality as we can have it that way. Competent hosts of big events, the male ones as well as the female ones, is just a start, but something that I think is important to build an equal community. What do you people think?
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
July 17 2012 23:03 GMT
#2
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
July 17 2012 23:04 GMT
#3
While i agree with what youre saying in theory, the problem is that there are very few women with comparable knowledge/passion/enthusiasm for starcraft with say, Day9, Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and all the other male casters. its not a matter of inequality, whether on purpose or not, its just that currently there are more qualified male casters/hosts etc.

As shown in professional athletics, having attractive women is an effective advertising method, and while it would be a step forward in the diversity of the community to have a woman caster/host etc, i think people would rather have only male casters if it would mean a higher level of competency/analysis/energy. As a whole i think the community would welcome a woman caster or host with open arms as long as they are also competent, which is the core issue here.
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
July 17 2012 23:07 GMT
#4
It's a good question your post raises though I expected it to be about MMA demotion jessica/eve sex jokes..

There is no good answer. Ideally every girl would be knowledgable on sc2 and pretty. But pretty attracts people, and knowledge of sc2 people appreciate. How do you get people in the first place? Pretty.

Yeah, don't hire eye-candy is what i would like to impart to sc2 tourneys. Atleast not for anrole besides handing out trophies
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
baby elephant
Profile Joined April 2011
273 Posts
July 17 2012 23:08 GMT
#5
naked

User was banned for this post.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:09 GMT
#6
On July 18 2012 08:04 Pazuzu wrote:
While i agree with what youre saying in theory, the problem is that there are very few women with comparable knowledge/passion/enthusiasm for starcraft with say, Day9, Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and all the other male casters. its not a matter of inequality, whether on purpose or not, its just that currently there are more qualified male casters/hosts etc.

As shown in professional athletics, having attractive women is an effective advertising method, and while it would be a step forward in the diversity of the community to have a woman caster/host etc, i think people would rather have only male casters if it would mean a higher level of competency/analysis/energy. As a whole i think the community would welcome a woman caster or host with open arms as long as they are also competent, which is the core issue here.


I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:11 GMT
#7
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.



Do you mean that if a not-so-good-looking female achieves something, she will not have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events?
MetalPanda
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada1152 Posts
July 17 2012 23:11 GMT
#8
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:13 GMT
#9
On July 18 2012 08:07 Bippzy wrote:
It's a good question your post raises though I expected it to be about MMA demotion jessica/eve sex jokes..

There is no good answer. Ideally every girl would be knowledgable on sc2 and pretty. But pretty attracts people, and knowledge of sc2 people appreciate. How do you get people in the first place? Pretty.

Yeah, don't hire eye-candy is what i would like to impart to sc2 tourneys. Atleast not for anrole besides handing out trophies



There's a lot to write about on the subject, but I chose this since it was what caught my attention most recently... And yeah, ofc there is no simple answer at least. But I live by the philosophy to air my thoughts and hear others, and hope to come to something at least close to an answer )
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:14 GMT
#10
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
July 17 2012 23:15 GMT
#11
I really don't like the practice of hiring models for the sole reason that they are models. I'm okay with hiring people like Seltzer and Prosser, because they're actually really involved in the eSports community (on top of being really good at what they do). Lauren was just...I dunno. She was better than Lindsey Sporrer, for sure, but she was there exclusively as eye-candy and obviously had no real presence in the Sc2 community beforehand or after. I don't fault her personally, and I think she did a good job as it is, but I don't really like the practice of hiring random women with the only qualifications seeming to be "is pretty and likes video games."

Meh.
English
Profile Joined April 2010
United States475 Posts
July 17 2012 23:16 GMT
#12
Women should at least have knowledge of the game to be a successful host. She doesn't have to have the same amount of analytical knowledge as the casters, but she should know what to say, when to say it and be able to report the facts. Just like the women who are in an equivalent role on other sports broadcasting networks.
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
July 17 2012 23:16 GMT
#13
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:04 Pazuzu wrote:
While i agree with what youre saying in theory, the problem is that there are very few women with comparable knowledge/passion/enthusiasm for starcraft with say, Day9, Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and all the other male casters. its not a matter of inequality, whether on purpose or not, its just that currently there are more qualified male casters/hosts etc.

As shown in professional athletics, having attractive women is an effective advertising method, and while it would be a step forward in the diversity of the community to have a woman caster/host etc, i think people would rather have only male casters if it would mean a higher level of competency/analysis/energy. As a whole i think the community would welcome a woman caster or host with open arms as long as they are also competent, which is the core issue here.


I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?



They would have to go through the same path that every up and coming caster goes through; companies have smaller satalite tournaments to help a caster build reputation and they work their way up. The goal in my opinion should be for selecting the best casters; the gender of the caster should not be an issue. Neither preventing the caster from gaining experience because she is a woman, nor denying them an edge over others because she is a woman is the ultimate goal, we just want the best casters
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:20 GMT
#14
On July 18 2012 08:16 Pazuzu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:04 Pazuzu wrote:
While i agree with what youre saying in theory, the problem is that there are very few women with comparable knowledge/passion/enthusiasm for starcraft with say, Day9, Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and all the other male casters. its not a matter of inequality, whether on purpose or not, its just that currently there are more qualified male casters/hosts etc.

As shown in professional athletics, having attractive women is an effective advertising method, and while it would be a step forward in the diversity of the community to have a woman caster/host etc, i think people would rather have only male casters if it would mean a higher level of competency/analysis/energy. As a whole i think the community would welcome a woman caster or host with open arms as long as they are also competent, which is the core issue here.


I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?



They would have to go through the same path that every up and coming caster goes through; companies have smaller satalite tournaments to help a caster build reputation and they work their way up. The goal in my opinion should be for selecting the best casters; the gender of the caster should not be an issue. Neither preventing the caster from gaining experience because she is a woman, nor denying them an edge over others because she is a woman is the ultimate goal, we just want the best casters


That would be the optimal situation, yes. How to get there is where it gets tricky...
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:22:38
July 17 2012 23:21 GMT
#15
I share same viewpoint, but I think for eSports to get any traction in a common market (which benefits progamers, the people we really care about to do well) the natural starting point is to find people like Lauren (maybe she wants to continue and learn more/get better too, who knows?). Given time, more women with more than a cursory knowledge of the game will come forward, knowing they can do better than the last one, and that will only happen if the tourneys struggle in the beginning to find that fit for a host. Literally it only takes one to get a little bit of fame and then they will be everywhere; just look at some casters that are out there. They are there not based on game knowledge or anything, it's just that they've become familiar and familiar attracts repeat viewers/attendees.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Benjamin99
Profile Joined April 2012
4176 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:07:04
July 17 2012 23:22 GMT
#16
Allmost every sport got host/interviewer etc as hot women becuase most sport viewers are males. Why in gods name do you think it should be different in sc2?. Personally I like it it tells the world we just a normal sport like everything els.

I simply cant understand why everytime there is a women in the sc2 community we get post like these. We sound like sexist, unsecure nerds. Just enjoy the show and watch Esport grow and dont be affraid of a pair of tits plz
Stephano & Jaedong <-- The Pain Train. Polt and Innovation to EG plz
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:23:12
July 17 2012 23:22 GMT
#17
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.


But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.



#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:24:00
July 17 2012 23:22 GMT
#18
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
July 17 2012 23:23 GMT
#19
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.


But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be a comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.




It's the internets, I told Al Gore it was a bad idea; like giving a monkey a rifle.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
July 17 2012 23:24 GMT
#20
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.
SilSol
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden2744 Posts
July 17 2012 23:25 GMT
#21
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


wow man! you really did think it over didn't you?
http://fragbite.se/user/117868/silsol since 2006 http://www.reddit.com/u/silsol77
ZombieGrub
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States699 Posts
July 17 2012 23:25 GMT
#22
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote:

I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?



I have no doubt there are some competent casters who are girls out there (I'd like to consider myself one ): ), but does anyone know about them? I wouldn't be surprised if you asked anyone in charge of hiring and they said only five girls applied and all of them had the same knowledge as this chick or that chick.

To think such a statement as 'there are no good female casters' as a truth that will be applied to anyone who tries, however, would be the part I have a problem with. But for now, is the pool of applicants just too small to say they picked ___ because she was prettier than the other, more knowledgeable girls? I think so. When girls who are in masters and have worked their way up start having a presence but are still denied, I'd be worried. Right now, however, I have to honestly say I don't know any who fit that standard. They're either trying to be a player or just not interested in casting, or like me, have only recently started dedicating myself to improving and don't deserve a big-name gig.

Although, if you know of any women who are casting and being dedicated, etc etc, that I don't know about, I'd like to know who.
Commentator"Defeat is the acceptance of my own laziness." - SlayerS_'Boxer'
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
July 17 2012 23:26 GMT
#23
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

You can make the argument that it did cause immeasurable harm, especially from wary first time viewers who saw the production and quickly came to an incorrect conclusion about the scene combining what they saw with the stereotype of fat, horny nerds.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25128 Posts
July 17 2012 23:26 GMT
#24
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.

How many male hosts are picked solely as eye candy?

Hell I liked that Soe girl, seemed to know her stuff and has a real history in E-sports, nothing wrong with somebody like her being employed in a presenting capacity.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:27 GMT
#25
On July 18 2012 08:22 Benjamin99 wrote:
Allmost every spot got host/interviewer etc as hot women becuase most sport viewers are males. Why in gods name do you think it should be different in sc2?. PersonallyI like it it tells the world we just a normal sport like everything els.

I simply cant understand why everytime there is a women in the sc2 community we get post like these. We sound like sexist, unsecure nerds. Just enjoy the show and watch Esport grow and dont be affraid of a pair of tits plz


Hahaha. It is not the tits that scare me, it is your kind of attitude. I did not ever say that other sports were any different; why would they be? It is however irrelevant that e-sports is like most sports, what you call "normal", because it doesn't mean that its good. I am writing specifically about e-sports here because, well.. this is TeamLiquid, not some soccer-page, right?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
July 17 2012 23:27 GMT
#26
For better and for worse, the e-sports community is a reflection of larger gaming communities and the communities gamers come from. Advertising with, and the objectification of, women's bodies will always be present, either in the foreground or at least in people's minds. I personally don't have any issues with an attractive host, and I think she did a good job, all things considered. Obviously, if most people disagree with me, I'm sure NASL will take note or whatever. I just thought I'd chip in my 2 cents.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Fumble
Profile Joined May 2010
156 Posts
July 17 2012 23:28 GMT
#27
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
July 17 2012 23:28 GMT
#28
On July 18 2012 08:25 ZombieGrub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote:

I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?



I have no doubt there are some competent casters who are girls out there (I'd like to consider myself one ): ), but does anyone know about them? I wouldn't be surprised if you asked anyone in charge of hiring and they said only five girls applied and all of them had the same knowledge as this chick or that chick.

To think such a statement as 'there are no good female casters' as a truth that will be applied to anyone who tries, however, would be the part I have a problem with. But for now, is the pool of applicants just too small to say they picked ___ because she was prettier than the other, more knowledgeable girls? I think so. When girls who are in masters and have worked their way up start having a presence but are still denied, I'd be worried. Right now, however, I have to honestly say I don't know any who fit that standard. They're either trying to be a player or just not interested in casting, or like me, have only recently started dedicating myself to improving and don't deserve a big-name gig.

Although, if you know of any women who are casting and being dedicated, etc etc, that I don't know about, I'd like to know who.

I'd agree, who says Lauren didn't have social skills they were looking for that other applicants lacked? She might have been chosen for that reason, she could just happen to be a normal well-adjusted person that doesn't know too much about SC2.
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
hjkim1304
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)105 Posts
July 17 2012 23:29 GMT
#29
I thought it is acceptable to have female hostess. Many people already know that in OGN they have booth girls that are hott.
MVega
Profile Joined November 2010
763 Posts
July 17 2012 23:30 GMT
#30
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.



But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.





Whaaaaa? There is plenty of real misogyny and sexism in the world, and there is even some in our small eSports niche. I'd like to think it was all "just jokes", but it's not. Not that it matters because even jokes can be hurtful and demeaning towards the women in esports, our community, and basically anywhere in the world.

On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


Pretty much, yeah.
bumkin: How can you play like 50 games per day... I 4gate 2 times then it's nap time
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
July 17 2012 23:30 GMT
#31
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote:
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.


So... the gist of your message is that unattractive people are unprofessional? I was hoping you meant ungroomed but you said unattractive. Also, what's so unprofessional about a dude handing out awards?
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:33:53
July 17 2012 23:31 GMT
#32
All I have to say on the subject is..... why would you hire someone to host who has NO KNOWLEDGE of the subject material when you already have Soe who is both gorgeous and an ACTUAL GAMER. There are many hot women in gaming, they are vastly under used and instead they hire in women from Playboy who just make themselves look dumb and further entrench the stereotype of the blonde bimbo.

I'm sure there are many subjects on which Lauren can speak with expertise and poise but starcraft isn't one of them. Soe, Floe, Uncontrollable (Anna) and many other girls who are stunning to look at are already in this community, why aren't they being used? I just don't understand. They are all hotter than Lauren, partly because they just are better looking but more importantly they are hotter cause they are in to the same things as we are and who doesn't pray for the day their gf asks to play Stracraft with them? If only so they won't moan at you anymore about it!
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:32 GMT
#33
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
July 17 2012 23:33 GMT
#34
I know it sucks but that's what people want to see. Insert a random hot girl in anything a man likes and he will most likely enjoy it more. I don't like it either but can't blame NASL for the choice.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:36:10
July 17 2012 23:34 GMT
#35
NASL hired a beautiful woman like every other show/tournament/event ever in the history of the universe ever its not a big deal at all

she probably knows as much about SC2 as clutch does (or at least dispalyed as much information) hosts are not hired to be commentators, they dont need to hire someone who knows how to hold a 4 gate or can take a safe fast 3rd on cloud kingdom, when they have an interview they dont ahve a laptop and ask them to ladder a couple games

they hire a host to get people exited and do stuff hosts generally do and she did a great job at that

ill never understand why people constantly try to treat females differently in such a vocal way and then say its for gender equality, if you wanted gender equality this thread wouldnt exist because there would be no reason for it too, its like wining that they didnt hire a stereotypical nerd to be there host

saying Lauren shouldnt have been hired because shes hot and doesnt know starcraft makes no sense

Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness


i was at the event, and i dont remember Clutch ever having to at any point in time (aside from casting a match i think...? memories of the event fuzzy to much awesome) demonstrating SC2 knowledge

all the host needs to know is the name of the game, the casters and the palyers thats all they need to know
Magic_Mike
Profile Joined May 2010
United States542 Posts
July 17 2012 23:34 GMT
#36
The problem with what your saying with women who love the game and have enthusiasm for it is that people in the starcraft community tend to be very adolescent. They see a pretty face and automatically assume that she is there only for her looks. Even if she is passionate and armed with a breadth of knowledge or even just some excitement, most people can't get over the fact that she has those things and boobs. If you make your way over to the LR thread for NASL you'll see that people were tearing Soe apart with one person even calling her "a useless pretty face." I personally feel that no matter how much game knowledge a woman has she will most likely never be whole heartily embraced by this community. There will always be those people who can't see past her being a woman. If someone like Soe can be relegated to being nothing more than "a useless pretty face" then I pity anyone who thinks a woman could make any other sort of impact. How much fucking enthusiasm do you have to have before it's enough? How much game knowledge? Sadly the community will never be happy with any amount of these things as long as it comes attached to a female body and will think that that person got there not on their own merit or worth but on physical appearance. It's very sad and it makes my wife (who wants to get involved in the communty but has seen how the women here are treated) really angry as well.
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
July 17 2012 23:34 GMT
#37
On July 18 2012 08:26 tehemperorer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

You can make the argument that it did cause immeasurable harm, especially from wary first time viewers who saw the production and quickly came to an incorrect conclusion about the scene combining what they saw with the stereotype of fat, horny nerds.


I dont see how that argument could be made actually. Thats quite silly.

Domus
Profile Joined March 2011
510 Posts
July 17 2012 23:36 GMT
#38
Hmmm, I think that the girl is there to reinforce the "boxing match" feel. You know, the girl in between rounds with the board? I am sure she does not know much about boxing, but it is just added appeal for some people.

As for the question about should they be hired for e-sports? I think it is an event choice. I don't have anything against hiring women because they are beautiful. They are hired because they bring a sexy presentation to an event. If the event wants this presentation, then that is their choice.

I think it is unfair to call woman just beautiful as if they don't work hard to get to that point. They do need to work to stay in shape, work on how they present themselves,etc. In other words, it is also a job to them, and it is a competitive job. I don't inherently mind if someone is hired for how their bodies look. I mean, a person of average intelligence and capabilities can also say that it is unfair that someone with superior intelligence gets more possibilities in life.
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
July 17 2012 23:36 GMT
#39
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p



It was never her job to know or talk about anything. If it was then you would have a point.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:39 GMT
#40
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote:
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.



As I wrote in the original post, I am also relating it to how (in my experience) some people are whining about women getting more attention than men.
Torpedo.Vegas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1890 Posts
July 17 2012 23:41 GMT
#41
The women that do put thier dues into the scene should be highlighted more for the SC contributions rather then their femininity. Its kind of objectifying to already single one member out based on gender as a special case. This goes both ways though. Women in eSports are often either embraced in one extreme or the other. Teams and organizations will single out and shine a spotlight on their female members to show diversity, inclusiveness and to just overall be different then the next group.

The general community at large often spotlights them in the other direction by inundating them with sexual harassment type jokes while at the same time belittling any progress or achievements they individually made by comparing them to usually more experienced and upper tier players.

Its a very volatile climate for women operate in, and often (at least from my perspective) they tend to deal with it by sort of sliding into the background and avoid most attention.

If a girl gamer doesn't show up as the next bonjwa (exaggeration, but you get it) she has a hell of a road ahead of her and props to those who can keep it up.

I think the solution is to stop treating them like women and treat them like players. Give them an honest and fair shake. I think if at least a small alcove can be carved out in the scene where female competitors can get this sort of treatment and escape all the social stigmas with being not just a gamer, but a female gamer, we could get some seriously talented people who could establish females at legitmate competitors. Validating a lot of girl gamers who may otherwise thing female pros are just going to be treated like gimmicks unless they face-stomp the world ten times over.
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
July 17 2012 23:41 GMT
#42
If esports was governed by the Swedish state, it would be mandatory for 50% of players in GSL to be female
emythrel
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom2599 Posts
July 17 2012 23:42 GMT
#43
On July 18 2012 08:36 CounterOrder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p



It was never her job to know or talk about anything. If it was then you would have a point.


Would you not agree that there are women who are already in the scene who are just as good to look at, would probably appreciate the paycheck (and cost less to boot) and be able to bring their knowledge to the role, which would ultimately make them more qualified. Just like any other job, if you have two candiates who are equally qualified for the job (in this case being good looking) then you look at other qualities to make the decision. If I were an event organiser, I am sure I could find someone who is both great to look at and doesn't sound like an idiot while doing it.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
architecture
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States643 Posts
July 17 2012 23:42 GMT
#44
I think the point of selecting eye candy is made clear by this thread - it's to get attention for the event.

If it were someone as part of the community, it would be hardly worth a mention, except maybe in their fanclub thread. But instead, here we are, making threads about people that we barely know. I'd say the mission is accomplished. People talk more, good or bad, about attractive people. There will be more threads about it. People tuning in, both new and fans, will talk about "who that person is".

So in a very cynical way, it's always better to use an attractive person as the figurehead.
tpfkan
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:46:48
July 17 2012 23:43 GMT
#45
If a girl gamer doesn't show up as the next bonjwa (exaggeration, but you get it) she has a hell of a road ahead of her and props to those who can keep it up.


if you said this before Scarlett youd have a point, but despite not getting amazingly far in IPL and building an evo instead of a pool VS demuslim she still had an insanely huge fan following even despite doing literally nothing between IPL and WCS canada (well not literally i suppose)

if she plays well, shell get fans, the SC2 fans are not actually biased most of us look at the skill most of the time you dont even see the palyers face until he gets like Ro8 in a tournament and sometimes not even then

Would you not agree that there are women who are already in the scene who are just as good to look at, would probably appreciate the paycheck (and cost less to boot) and be able to bring their knowledge to the role, which would ultimately make them more qualified. Just like any other job, if you have two candiates who are equally qualified for the job (in this case being good looking) then you look at other qualities to make the decision. If I were an event organiser, I am sure I could find someone who is both great to look at and doesn't sound like an idiot while doing it.


except her job wasnt to look good, she did alot aside from looking good

and no, even if she had Day[9] level knowledge of the game and knew absolutely everything about every player, race, map and match up, guess what? it wouldnt effect her ability to do the job she was hired to do one tiny bit

she didnt sound like an idiot at all, except for all the extreme lore nerds who were pissed off from the lore question about the zerg homeworld (oh ya didnt she know Jims middle name unlike that Nerd she questioned?) she did her job amazingly well noone could ahve done it better
CPTBadAss
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States594 Posts
July 17 2012 23:45 GMT
#46
If we're going to debate the fact of whether or not Lauren was qualified, I'd like to offer this point: What's Clutch's credibility for hosting? I'm not saying he's bad, but to me, it seems like he's the same way. He just appeared one day at MLG and has been around ever since. I know he's got his own show but other than that, he's got little background in the community. As it was mentioned before people like Day9, Mr Bitter, and Rotterdam have had lots of involvement with the community.

But back on point, I don't see why it matters so much having Lauren host. Other sports offer a nice sideshow of women (i.e. cheerleaders). But when the games get cranking, do you really remember who was dancing on the sideline or announcing the names? Or do you remember the games? I remember Stephano stomping Alicia way more than I remember Lauren.

And I do think hosts should be a little outside of the typical community figures. Can you imagine a Naniwa or Thorzain trying to hype a crowd? I'd fall asleep. People like Clutch and Lauren might not be the ideal SC2 representatives but they know how to work an audience. Remember the Dreamhacks with 2GD and Semmler the Riot? I'm pretty sure those were my favorite hosts out of sheer amusement.
I'll keep on struggling, 'cause that's the measure of a man | "That was the plan: To give him some hope, and then crush him" -Stephano
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:46:47
July 17 2012 23:45 GMT
#47
On July 18 2012 08:26 tehemperorer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

You can make the argument that it did cause immeasurable harm, especially from wary first time viewers who saw the production and quickly came to an incorrect conclusion about the scene combining what they saw with the stereotype of fat, horny nerds.

I don't get it. Any big sports event in America has a legion of scantily-dressed cheerleaders, that's way worse than anything esports does. Are physical sports for fat, horny nerds then?
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 17 2012 23:46 GMT
#48
I know how to do for Brood War.

Okay so basically it is like chess

But unlike chess, your pieces can be brought back by reproduction

To product a unit, you need a factory

To build one, you need resources.

Oh did I forget to mention that resources is also vital for the respawn of the unit?

The gatherers collect them and return them to a bank in which it can be used as your currency.

So it is pretty much like economics in a way that you want to make the opponent spent as much money as possible while you'll attempt to spend the least to be optimal.

(^the above is the macro aspect of the game because you absolutely do not want to be like "Oh yeah I just kill other shit with my own shit and hope that my shit comes on top!")

She'll most likely respond with "Ooooh, so how are you going to do that?"

Then proceed on with:

Well as I have mentioned before that your units are exactly like chess piece in ways that you may use it to eliminate another one.

But at the same time, the other one can also reciprocate the action back to you.

In these case, the player that can control the 'pieces' the best gets to be on top.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
CounterOrder
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada457 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 23:47:54
July 17 2012 23:47 GMT
#49
On July 18 2012 08:42 emythrel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:36 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p



It was never her job to know or talk about anything. If it was then you would have a point.


Would you not agree that there are women who are already in the scene who are just as good to look at, would probably appreciate the paycheck (and cost less to boot) and be able to bring their knowledge to the role, which would ultimately make them more qualified. Just like any other job, if you have two candiates who are equally qualified for the job (in this case being good looking) then you look at other qualities to make the decision. If I were an event organiser, I am sure I could find someone who is both great to look at and doesn't sound like an idiot while doing it.


I agree with you, but she was a host, and not even an important one,being after day 9 soe and clutch... She wasnt there to talk about the game and any other person in her spot wouldnt be there to talk about the game either even if they were GM. Thats not what that position is. In her case being from the scene or not means nothing.


Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 17 2012 23:47 GMT
#50
On July 18 2012 08:41 Catch]22 wrote:
If esports was governed by the Swedish state, it would be mandatory for 50% of players in GSL to be female


Yeah just like our football team.... Oh wait.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:48 GMT
#51
On July 18 2012 08:34 Forikorder wrote:
NASL hired a beautiful woman like every other show/tournament/event ever in the history of the universe ever its not a big deal at all

she probably knows as much about SC2 as clutch does (or at least dispalyed as much information) hosts are not hired to be commentators, they dont need to hire someone who knows how to hold a 4 gate or can take a safe fast 3rd on cloud kingdom, when they have an interview they dont ahve a laptop and ask them to ladder a couple games

they hire a host to get people exited and do stuff hosts generally do and she did a great job at that

ill never understand why people constantly try to treat females differently in such a vocal way and then say its for gender equality, if you wanted gender equality this thread wouldnt exist because there would be no reason for it too, its like wining that they didnt hire a stereotypical nerd to be there host

This argument is barely worth answering too, but I'll give it a shot anyway; do you think the same way of, for an example the fight for equal rights when it comes to ethnicity? That "if they (ppl fighting for black ppl rights for an example) wanted equality they wouldnt talk about it, because there would be no reason". How does that work out for you? :p Its ridicoulus to say that Im CREATING a problem by writing about it. To say that you need to deny the existance of the problem, right?

saying Lauren shouldnt have been hired because shes hot and doesnt know starcraft makes no sense

Show nested quote +
Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness


i was at the event, and i dont remember Clutch ever having to at any point in time (aside from casting a match i think...? memories of the event fuzzy to much awesome) demonstrating SC2 knowledge

all the host needs to know is the name of the game, the casters and the palyers thats all they need to know



User was warned for this post
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 17 2012 23:48 GMT
#52
On July 18 2012 08:46 Xiphos wrote:
I know how to do for Brood War.

Okay so basically it is like chess

But unlike chess, your pieces can be brought back by reproduction

To product a unit, you need a factory

To build one, you need resources.

Oh did I forget to mention that resources is also vital for the respawn of the unit?

The gatherers collect them and return them to a bank in which it can be used as your currency.

So it is pretty much like economics in a way that you want to make the opponent spent as much money as possible while you'll attempt to spend the least to be optimal.

(^the above is the macro aspect of the game because you absolutely do not want to be like "Oh yeah I just kill other shit with my own shit and hope that my shit comes on top!")

She'll most likely respond with "Ooooh, so how are you going to do that?"

Then proceed on with:

Well as I have mentioned before that your units are exactly like chess piece in ways that you may use it to eliminate another one.

But at the same time, the other one can also reciprocate the action back to you.

In these case, the player that can control the 'pieces' the best gets to be on top.

are you trying to say you dont even think she understands the game at all?
she knew Jims middle names, shes probably played campaign
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
July 17 2012 23:49 GMT
#53
If Lauren doesn't know much about SC2, then that's fine with me so long as we don't get any more HasuOrbs.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
July 17 2012 23:49 GMT
#54
On July 18 2012 08:46 Xiphos wrote:
I know how to do for Brood War.

Okay so basically it is like chess

But unlike chess, your pieces can be brought back by reproduction

To product a unit, you need a factory

To build one, you need resources.

Oh did I forget to mention that resources is also vital for the respawn of the unit?

The gatherers collect them and return them to a bank in which it can be used as your currency.

So it is pretty much like economics in a way that you want to make the opponent spent as much money as possible while you'll attempt to spend the least to be optimal.

(^the above is the macro aspect of the game because you absolutely do not want to be like "Oh yeah I just kill other shit with my own shit and hope that my shit comes on top!")

She'll most likely respond with "Ooooh, so how are you going to do that?"

Then proceed on with:

Well as I have mentioned before that your units are exactly like chess piece in ways that you may use it to eliminate another one.

But at the same time, the other one can also reciprocate the action back to you.

In these case, the player that can control the 'pieces' the best gets to be on top.


This is a good point. Even someone who isn't super familiar with Sc2 can be taught the basics well enough to be a good host.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 17 2012 23:49 GMT
#55
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
July 17 2012 23:49 GMT
#56
On July 18 2012 08:49 spbelky wrote:
If Lauren doesn't know much about SC2, then that's fine with me so long as we don't get any more HasuOrbs.


If your job is to talk to/about the players, you better damn well get their names right.
Steelo_Rivers
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1968 Posts
July 17 2012 23:54 GMT
#57
As a man I can say that a majority of the females online dont like telling people that they're females simply because (insert random percentage here) of men online dont know how to fucking act and tend to drive off most of the females. It was like that on Xbox Live. I used to play Gears of War alot (and if you know the gears community, they're pretty fucking hardcore nerds) and everytime a female spoke a word, all hell broke loose. Most of you are grown men with wives of your own, don't act like kids.

Females are humans just like males. If you ask me, most of the males need to fix their behavior around females rather than vice-versa.
ok
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
July 17 2012 23:54 GMT
#58
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.



This is correct. Don't get me wrong I like a pretty girl who plays games and will drool over them such as ailuj for example. But at the end of the day we should all respect each other. Every player should be respected. Now leagues like IPL do spice up there lan events with lovely ladies in lovely dresses, I feel like that is ok because it goes with the theme IPL is trying to portray. Which to me is IPL is trying to make esports sexy. Kind of like NBA/NFL have dancers/cheerleaders. At end of the day, these girls just love esports like the guys do. And frankly I don't want to just play with a bunch of dudes, girls can bring new ideas and have just as much fun as the guys.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 17 2012 23:56 GMT
#59
On July 18 2012 08:41 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
The women that do put thier dues into the scene should be highlighted more for the SC contributions rather then their femininity. Its kind of objectifying to already single one member out based on gender as a special case. This goes both ways though. Women in eSports are often either embraced in one extreme or the other. Teams and organizations will single out and shine a spotlight on their female members to show diversity, inclusiveness and to just overall be different then the next group.

The general community at large often spotlights them in the other direction by inundating them with sexual harassment type jokes while at the same time belittling any progress or achievements they individually made by comparing them to usually more experienced and upper tier players.

Its a very volatile climate for women operate in, and often (at least from my perspective) they tend to deal with it by sort of sliding into the background and avoid most attention.

If a girl gamer doesn't show up as the next bonjwa (exaggeration, but you get it) she has a hell of a road ahead of her and props to those who can keep it up.

I think the solution is to stop treating them like women and treat them like players. Give them an honest and fair shake. I think if at least a small alcove can be carved out in the scene where female competitors can get this sort of treatment and escape all the social stigmas with being not just a gamer, but a female gamer, we could get some seriously talented people who could establish females at legitmate competitors. Validating a lot of girl gamers who may otherwise thing female pros are just going to be treated like gimmicks unless they face-stomp the world ten times over.


You have a lot of good points, thank you for sharing them with me (and everybody else ofc, but Im extra-happy since I wrote the post). This whole thing with highlighting women is ofc a part of the problem as well, neither men nor women should be premiered, even though one might think it would be for the specific guy's/girl's advantage, it might as well just mess things up, since people will not think it was well-deserved..
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 17 2012 23:57 GMT
#60
On July 18 2012 08:54 LgNKami wrote:
As a man I can say that a majority of the females online dont like telling people that they're females simply because (insert random percentage here) of men online dont know how to fucking act and tend to drive off most of the females. It was like that on Xbox Live. I used to play Gears of War alot (and if you know the gears community, they're pretty fucking hardcore nerds) and everytime a female spoke a word, all hell broke loose. Most of you are grown men with wives of your own, don't act like kids.

Females are humans just like males. If you ask me, most of the males need to fix their behavior around females rather than vice-versa.

you could replace female with any sort of minority or anything that makes someone different and it would still be accurate
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
July 17 2012 23:58 GMT
#61
On July 18 2012 08:47 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:41 Catch]22 wrote:
If esports was governed by the Swedish state, it would be mandatory for 50% of players in GSL to be female


Yeah just like our football team.... Oh wait.


They would if they could
Steelo_Rivers
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1968 Posts
July 18 2012 00:00 GMT
#62
On July 18 2012 08:57 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:54 LgNKami wrote:
As a man I can say that a majority of the females online dont like telling people that they're females simply because (insert random percentage here) of men online dont know how to fucking act and tend to drive off most of the females. It was like that on Xbox Live. I used to play Gears of War alot (and if you know the gears community, they're pretty fucking hardcore nerds) and everytime a female spoke a word, all hell broke loose. Most of you are grown men with wives of your own, don't act like kids.

Females are humans just like males. If you ask me, most of the males need to fix their behavior around females rather than vice-versa.

you could replace female with any sort of minority or anything that makes someone different and it would still be accurate

^^ exactly. I went to a barcraft one day and everybody was surprised because i'm a black dude. shit was crazy.
ok
Staboteur
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada1873 Posts
July 18 2012 00:02 GMT
#63
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


I can't do much but agree with this.

If she was hired and asked to put on a persona that she found unbecoming of herself and was putting on reluctantly in order to get paid, I'd have a problem with the situation as it would feel wrong on several levels to participate in the event. HOWEVER because as far as anyone can tell she was hired to be herself and be entertaining, why is there debate over whether or not this is "right"? Sure, it has the potential to reinforce certain negative stereotypes and help people less willing to actually think about the subject believe that these stereotypes are far more prevalent than they actually are, but I'm not one to advocate protecting people from their own mistakes and if someone is determined to be wrong, I'm completely fine letting them eventually suffer for it.

Yeah. My personal opinion is that she was nice to look at, was seemingly being herself and no-one else, and made the event more "fun" than certain other choices may have. Though NASL could have made different choices of host for any number of different reasons, I don't think it's legitimate to claim sexism or a negative portrayal of women in this regard.
I'm actually Fleetfeet D:
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 00:02 GMT
#64
On July 18 2012 08:45 CPTBadAss wrote:
If we're going to debate the fact of whether or not Lauren was qualified, I'd like to offer this point: What's Clutch's credibility for hosting? I'm not saying he's bad, but to me, it seems like he's the same way. He just appeared one day at MLG and has been around ever since. I know he's got his own show but other than that, he's got little background in the community. As it was mentioned before people like Day9, Mr Bitter, and Rotterdam have had lots of involvement with the community.

But back on point, I don't see why it matters so much having Lauren host. Other sports offer a nice sideshow of women (i.e. cheerleaders). But when the games get cranking, do you really remember who was dancing on the sideline or announcing the names? Or do you remember the games? I remember Stephano stomping Alicia way more than I remember Lauren.

Actually you make my point a little by saying "do you really remember those girls? no"... because what I want it for us to have girls present... that actually are rememberable Otherwise it seems kind of pointless to me that they are even there, right? If everyone's going to forget them anyway

And I do think hosts should be a little outside of the typical community figures. Can you imagine a Naniwa or Thorzain trying to hype a crowd? I'd fall asleep. People like Clutch and Lauren might not be the ideal SC2 representatives but they know how to work an audience. Remember the Dreamhacks with 2GD and Semmler the Riot? I'm pretty sure those were my favorite hosts out of sheer amusement.


That's a good point though. Lol @ 2GD <3

killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:10:01
July 18 2012 00:06 GMT
#65
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

I fail to see the link between having physically attractive hosts and making it harder for females in E-Sports.
If a girl wants to succeed as a player, then gender is definitely not a disadvantage, in fact i would say it is a huge advantage to be female because you will get a lot more attention, and attention attracts sponsors which attracts opportunities to improve which otherwise might not be there. If a female player feels hard done by then they should just buckle down and practice because i can't think of a single case in which a female player has been passed over for sponsorship/attention in favour of a male player of equal skill.

As casters, the skills required to be a caster are the ability to be well spoken, that is have a suitably large active vocabulary and know how to use it, as well as having an accent which isn't totally out there, and also knowing enough about the game to talk about it on a decent level. There is always going to be a certain amount of "prejudice" people have when listening to female vs male commentators just because it's a female, and the majority of the sc2 audience (i believe) are male, and that isn't going to change for the forseeable future.

I'm just surprised you choose to discuss the fact that hosts sometimes are females who don't understand the game. Because there are just as many male hosts who don't understand the game as well.

Actually in my opinion, if you want to complain about something damaging the reputation of females who game seriously i would talk about all the girls who use the fact they are a girl as their main selling point, rather then their playing skill.

A few examples (nothing against these people personally or anything like that, they are just examples of a trend i've seen recently)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346852
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339222

Are two examples, both are girls trying to sell themselves as girls. Surely this is much more damaging to the professionalism, you seem to want, where there are no differences between how males and females are perceived. There is a certain double standard to saying "guys treat girl gamers differently" when the vocal 5% of female gamers, (who are the ones people hear, and therefore believe make up the majority of the female gaming scene) are advertising their stream as "starcraft with boobs" or something like that. This kind of advertising is just putting more focus on dividing male and female gamers rather then bringing them together.

I believe that the best way for female gamers to be treated equally is just to not put any focus on the fact that they are girls,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342346
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290288

These two streamers just acknowledge that they are girls and then move on, because IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. If girls want attention they should just get better, such as scarlett has done, and get noticed for results. I think it's the people who use the fact that they are female to get attention within the community rather then the professional mc's or interviewers doing their jobs who are undermining the equality.

Just my opinion ^.^
Cinim
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark866 Posts
July 18 2012 00:07 GMT
#66
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Tossgirl, she is pretty hot. Not sure if she speak english though, for the foreigner to enjoy if she ever were to be involved in hosting etc.
Hell, it's about time
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 00:07 GMT
#67
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


I don't know this person you're talking about, but I can imagine... It's silly of you to think that I meant that she could harm ESPN. What about harming half of the population by presenting only one kind of women - the pretty ones? Really simplified because I dont have a lot of time to elaborate at the moment but if you think about it I think you could get what I mean
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
July 18 2012 00:07 GMT
#68
They do that in poker, formula one, any american sport with cheerleaders, and also often enough with any discipline involving the so called "nerds". I don't think it's actually that bad - neither for her, nor for the people who enjoyed her presence. I think it was a win-win for all parties, sorry that some people had to feel bad about it. You shouldn't, imho, it was pretty okay.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
KissMeRed
Profile Joined June 2012
United States96 Posts
July 18 2012 00:08 GMT
#69
First, I didn't even notice the model NASL hired until I saw comments about her, so they weren't even using her 'sex appeal' effectively.

Second, I'd rather have a professional host with no knowledge of SC2 who can generate genuine hype in place of a host who understands SC2, but performs a lame, fake-ish boxing match style intro over and over.

It probably would have been more entertaining if the blonde model just replaced Clutch. Even if she had a few gaffes, it would have been cute and fun!

(Side Note: It's funny how events continue to hire ineffective hosts/casters. E.g. Idra and InControl's casting eclipsed anyone else on stream and they aren't even primarily commentators O.o)
Prophanity
Profile Joined January 2012
United States165 Posts
July 18 2012 00:10 GMT
#70
On July 18 2012 09:02 Staboteur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


If she was hired and asked to put on a persona that she found unbecoming of herself and was putting on reluctantly in order to get paid, I'd have a problem with the situation as it would feel wrong on several levels to participate in the event.


I have nothing wrong with this statement but my curiosity makes me ask... if she HAD been hired and asked to portray herself as something she's not, is that type of "acting" not commonplace? Further, seeing as how she would have been hired in this instance and not forced to do this (free people are free, of course) thereby suggesting she made a conscious decision to perform in this way, would that even be an issue?

To be fair, Clutch was also there in his capacity. So was Soe, another very attractive woman, and she was utilized in a position requiring a bit more knowledge than what Lauren had and rightfully so. In fact, the presense of Soe makes this even less of an issue to me as it helps to eliminate any pretense of sexism.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:10:59
July 18 2012 00:10 GMT
#71
On July 18 2012 09:08 KissMeRed wrote:
First, I didn't even notice the model NASL hired until I saw comments about her, so they weren't even using her 'sex appeal' effectively.

Second, I'd rather have a professional host with no knowledge of SC2 who can generate genuine hype in place of a host who understands SC2, but performs a lame, fake-ish boxing match style intro over and over.

It probably would have been more entertaining if the blonde model just replaced Clutch. Even if she had a few gaffes, it would have been cute and fun!

(Side Note: It's funny how events continue to hire ineffective hosts/casters. E.g. Idra and InControl's casting eclipsed anyone else on stream and they aren't even primarily commentators O.o)

you obviously werent there live, we all loved Clutchs intro every single time and it really helped make the event that much more amazing

i guess without the full force of the accompanying cheers the intro loses alot of its UMPH
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
July 18 2012 00:16 GMT
#72
Hmm. It's something like if you are a girl (not slut), it's kinda hard to get into big group of guys, talk, make a friedn etc etc. And particulary hard is to do it in nightclub.

It's just not encouraging for females to join/stay in community. Though the effect is probably small, it shows something.
A2340
Profile Joined July 2012
Canada106 Posts
July 18 2012 00:17 GMT
#73
On July 18 2012 09:07 figq wrote:
They do that in poker, formula one, any american sport with cheerleaders, and also often enough with any discipline involving the so called "nerds". I don't think it's actually that bad - neither for her, nor for the people who enjoyed her presence. I think it was a win-win for all parties, sorry that some people had to feel bad about it. You shouldn't, imho, it was pretty okay.

Agreed. The OP started off by saying that it would be a reflection on how much of an issue gender inequality is in eSports (or something to that extent), but then never really explained why gender inequality is an issue in eSports. It exists--I recognize that--but no one really stands to lose anything from it, as far as I'm aware, unless you're saying that knowledgeable hosts aren't getting hired because some eye candy seems like a better choice. I don't think that's happening, but I'd reconsider if you could show me examples.
14fighter
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States226 Posts
July 18 2012 00:19 GMT
#74
The problem isn't females, its the community who stereotypically has less contact with females IRL then other communities. Shit its really not that big of a deal and people say stuff behind anonymity easily so. Honestly, sometimes i worry about people in the community. Theres people that are just so fucked up or assholes it makes you wonder.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:20:15
July 18 2012 00:19 GMT
#75
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

I fail to see the link between having physically attractive hosts and making it harder for females in E-Sports.
If a girl wants to succeed as a player, then gender is definitely not a disadvantage, in fact i would say it is a huge advantage to be female because you will get a lot more attention, and attention attracts sponsors which attracts opportunities to improve which otherwise might not be there. If a female player feels hard done by then they should just buckle down and practice because i can't think of a single case in which a female player has been passed over for sponsorship/attention in favour of a male player of equal skill.

As casters, the skills required to be a caster are the ability to be well spoken, that is have a suitably large active vocabulary and know how to use it, as well as having an accent which isn't totally out there, and also knowing enough about the game to talk about it on a decent level. There is always going to be a certain amount of "prejudice" people have when listening to female vs male commentators just because it's a female, and the majority of the sc2 audience (i believe) are male, and that isn't going to change for the forseeable future.

I'm just surprised you choose to discuss the fact that hosts sometimes are females who don't understand the game. Because there are just as many male hosts who don't understand the game as well.

Actually in my opinion, if you want to complain about something damaging the reputation of females who game seriously i would talk about all the girls who use the fact they are a girl as their main selling point, rather then their playing skill.

A few examples (nothing against these people personally or anything like that, they are just examples of a trend i've seen recently)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346852
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339222

Are two examples, both are girls trying to sell themselves as girls. Surely this is much more damaging to the professionalism, you seem to want, where there are no differences between how males and females are perceived. There is a certain double standard to saying "guys treat girl gamers differently" when the vocal 5% of female gamers, (who are the ones people hear, and therefore believe make up the majority of the female gaming scene) are advertising their stream as "starcraft with boobs" or something like that. This kind of advertising is just putting more focus on dividing male and female gamers rather then bringing them together.

I believe that the best way for female gamers to be treated equally is just to not put any focus on the fact that they are girls,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342346
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290288

These two streamers just acknowledge that they are girls and then move on, because IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. If girls want attention they should just get better, such as scarlett has done, and get noticed for results. I think it's the people who use the fact that they are female to get attention within the community rather then the professional mc's or interviewers doing their jobs who are undermining the equality.

Just my opinion ^.^


I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?

I think what you're taking up is a big issue as well, but I can't write about all issues, can I? There's too much to say about it. You, on the other hand, who seem to be more interested in just this specific thing than in what I wrote about, should start a thread on that! I would read it
WigglingSquid
Profile Joined August 2011
5194 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:29:14
July 18 2012 00:24 GMT
#76
On July 18 2012 08:21 tehemperorer wrote:
Given time, more women with more than a cursory knowledge of the game will come forward, .

A friendly warning: do not consider this as an inevitable improvement that comes with time.
As someone who works in network/computer security, I am a primary witness of the long-lasting effects that are casted on women by an unwelcoming and childish male-dominated audience. There are quite a few female researchers which flat-out refuse to attend and contribute to DEFCON because of its (deserved) reputation. Keep in mind that there does not need to be a significant majority of jerks: just a few rotten apples and a common enough sense of complacency, tolerance and "boys will be boys" attitude are more than enough to cause serious troubles.

Gaming communities tend to be very immature in their approach to many things; this is presumably due to issues both age-related and cultural. This greatly contributes to the specific issue at hand, in our specific group.
Personally, I doubt that the situation is going to change anytime soon. The "living female decoration" has been a die-hard concept of western show culture for quite some time now. Again, gender parity is a goal a community must work towards, rather than hoping that things will naturally solve themselves: this is not an impossible task, but I doubt that the SC2 showbiz is going to take on it with any degree of effort.
Xonix
Profile Joined February 2012
225 Posts
July 18 2012 00:40 GMT
#77
My personal opinion to this is simple... Esports needs to grow before we worry about stuff like this... Plain and simple
thurst0n
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:41:55
July 18 2012 00:40 GMT
#78
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


This. And I just totally disagree with OP. I am not bothered with this at all. I am seeing absolutely no problems here.

Present each female how they want to be presented.

I want to thank NASL personally, for providing me with eye candy, and a bit of an escape from pure Starcraft. A beautiful girl adds another dynamic to the "show", it doesn't take anything away.

I'm not quite sure what you think I'm supposed to be mad about. This entire thread kinda makes my head hurt.
You are making so many assumptions in the OP it's not even funny.

For starters you assume the entire audience wants the same thing, which is just not true at all, and furthermore that the audience agrees with you!
Then you go on to assume how NASL should put on a show for their fans. I'm sure you know, but I'll remind you: you can put on your own tournament and hire anyone you want to have any roll (assuming they're willing of course).

The way you present this never even crossed my mind, you're making strawmen and trying to light them on fire.

The only perception of how e-sports was presenting women was the sheer awesomeness of a shy Scarlett dominating the WCS.

I'm not sure where in the community men are complaining they aren't getting the attention, and that women get more attention. But frankly that's complete bogus, if they want the attention that Lauren Elise got, that makes no sense. You want recognition for your own accomplishments, if you just want fame for the fame you don't deserve to be bitching in the first place.

Why are people always trying to see the negative. If you don't believe women should be sex objects.(or if you think that's what we're doing here is objectifying them) Or if you don't believe woman should be used to sell [enter good/service here] then perhaps you should start a human rights group.

TL:DR-Gender(or race/age/religious/sexual orientation) is ONLY an issue if you choose to make it an issue.
Stop making it an issue. get over your teenage unease.
P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
July 18 2012 00:41 GMT
#79
On July 18 2012 08:11 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.



Do you mean that if a not-so-good-looking female achieves something, she will not have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events?

nah, just that good looking people tend to have more doors opened for them and that since in my scenario this person would be replacing what is essentially eye candy it would much more likely be replaced with other eye candy with sc2 knowledge
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
July 18 2012 00:42 GMT
#80
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



User was warned for this post
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Archas
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6531 Posts
July 18 2012 00:45 GMT
#81
Oh boy, time to keep track of how many people quote IdrA and say LOL GOLD or something similar.
The room is ripe with the stench of bitches!
thurst0n
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States611 Posts
July 18 2012 00:48 GMT
#82
On July 18 2012 09:19 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

I fail to see the link between having physically attractive hosts and making it harder for females in E-Sports.
If a girl wants to succeed as a player, then gender is definitely not a disadvantage, in fact i would say it is a huge advantage to be female because you will get a lot more attention, and attention attracts sponsors which attracts opportunities to improve which otherwise might not be there. If a female player feels hard done by then they should just buckle down and practice because i can't think of a single case in which a female player has been passed over for sponsorship/attention in favour of a male player of equal skill.

As casters, the skills required to be a caster are the ability to be well spoken, that is have a suitably large active vocabulary and know how to use it, as well as having an accent which isn't totally out there, and also knowing enough about the game to talk about it on a decent level. There is always going to be a certain amount of "prejudice" people have when listening to female vs male commentators just because it's a female, and the majority of the sc2 audience (i believe) are male, and that isn't going to change for the forseeable future.

I'm just surprised you choose to discuss the fact that hosts sometimes are females who don't understand the game. Because there are just as many male hosts who don't understand the game as well.

Actually in my opinion, if you want to complain about something damaging the reputation of females who game seriously i would talk about all the girls who use the fact they are a girl as their main selling point, rather then their playing skill.

A few examples (nothing against these people personally or anything like that, they are just examples of a trend i've seen recently)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346852
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339222

Are two examples, both are girls trying to sell themselves as girls. Surely this is much more damaging to the professionalism, you seem to want, where there are no differences between how males and females are perceived. There is a certain double standard to saying "guys treat girl gamers differently" when the vocal 5% of female gamers, (who are the ones people hear, and therefore believe make up the majority of the female gaming scene) are advertising their stream as "starcraft with boobs" or something like that. This kind of advertising is just putting more focus on dividing male and female gamers rather then bringing them together.

I believe that the best way for female gamers to be treated equally is just to not put any focus on the fact that they are girls,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342346
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290288

These two streamers just acknowledge that they are girls and then move on, because IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. If girls want attention they should just get better, such as scarlett has done, and get noticed for results. I think it's the people who use the fact that they are female to get attention within the community rather then the professional mc's or interviewers doing their jobs who are undermining the equality.

Just my opinion ^.^


I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?

I think what you're taking up is a big issue as well, but I can't write about all issues, can I? There's too much to say about it. You, on the other hand, who seem to be more interested in just this specific thing than in what I wrote about, should start a thread on that! I would read it


Wow, please stop. You don't know what these girls are thinking, stop pretending like you do.

Here's an anecdote:
I used to be good friends with a girl gamer. From the first moment I learned she was a gamer, all I could do was swoon over her. She got nothing but my attention and encouragement. There was never a moment when I got a sense from her that she was discouraged in anyway by anyone. Again this is just an anecdote. Maybe your community and culture is one that tries to knock down women constantly, and there are certainly people who would wish to do that in the U.S. But you make it seem like all of e-sports is against the idea of women, and i think that just about everyone is WIDE OPEN to the idea as long as the women has merits for why they are there. Scarletts merits are self aparrent, for Ms. Elise our friend killerdog explains her merits of being a host below...

Please refresh my memory, what is the general view of women in the community. You're basically making it here by making this thread.

My view of women in the community: there aren't enough. That's all, nothing more nothing less.

Like I said, this guy totally ripped your points apart in his first paragraph.
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

You clearly don't understand the purpose of a host.
P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
July 18 2012 00:50 GMT
#83
There is a real gender double standard in media. This is not unique to e-sports.

Take news anchors for example, you often see male anchors of various types of sizes, including older and overweight men. It's very rare to see anything other than a young attractive female anchor.

Then there's the related issue of sexualization of mostly women (but men to a lesser extent as well) in the media. Within the sub-category of sports, women are generally portrayed as what some here term "eye candy" in the form of cheerleaders, ringside girls, dancers, hostesses etc. Some people here are pointing to the larger media industry and saying "look other sports do it too" so there's nothing wrong with it.

The question people should be asking themselves is that if there are two equally qualified women vying for a hosting job and the woman who is generally considered more attractive gets the job 100% of the time, is there anything wrong with that? The unattractive woman may feel unfairly passed over while attractive woman who gets the job may feel like she only got the job because of her looks.

I'm not qualified to judge what the role of women in media means and whether the stereotyping and sexualization of women and men is truly good or bad. We are human after all and we cannot pretend to ignore that some people are more attractive than others. There's lots of research out there for those who care to uncover it. My only real point here is that this is a much larger issue than women in esports and people who simply say "this is the norm therefore it's OK" should take a look at the big picture.
Mauldo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States750 Posts
July 18 2012 00:52 GMT
#84
/sigh. This thread pops up after every event that dares have a woman host. If it's not "Anna's dress was too hot. It distracted from MC's magnificent play," it's "Everyone I see on that damn stream had better play this game at Master level."

I understand why. Everyone wants to break into the scene and get paid, so someone on camera that doesn't necessarily know anything about SC2 might rub you the wrong way. Alright. The problem though lies in the fact that you, and everyone who posts a thread like this once a month or so, seems to think that everyone on stream in fact has to know jackshit about the game. If that's the barometer for who gets to do anything ESPORTS related, then sorry, even most managers are fired. EG better find a COO, because Sir Scoots just got fired.

And since when is it bad to have a bit of eye candy every once in a while. If you want this to be a legit sport, you have to accept it. How many female sports interviewers actually know more than cursory knowledge about the sport they're reporting on? Hell, to expand, how many hot female anchors on TV are actually good journalists?

The best part is, if they hired a hot guy to host no one would say a word. They'd say "Who's this jackass," sure, but they wouldn't post a thread about how unfair it is that Joe A was hired just because he's hot. Especially considering this woman knew why she was being hired, (PROTIP: She's attractive), and you really don't have a point for some kind of malicious exploitation, though you're really trying for it.

In fact, I'd ask you to take a step back and think about if your sudden crusade to halt this seemingly widespread sexist injustice is actually coming from your own sexist attitudes. You know, the "she's being treated in a way I dislike, she must need my saving." She's hot, she got paid to host. That's basically how 95% of hosting jobs have ever been filled, and it's not going to change. Ever. She obviously has no problem cashing the check, so why do you?
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
July 18 2012 00:52 GMT
#85
On July 18 2012 09:19 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

I fail to see the link between having physically attractive hosts and making it harder for females in E-Sports.
If a girl wants to succeed as a player, then gender is definitely not a disadvantage, in fact i would say it is a huge advantage to be female because you will get a lot more attention, and attention attracts sponsors which attracts opportunities to improve which otherwise might not be there. If a female player feels hard done by then they should just buckle down and practice because i can't think of a single case in which a female player has been passed over for sponsorship/attention in favour of a male player of equal skill.

As casters, the skills required to be a caster are the ability to be well spoken, that is have a suitably large active vocabulary and know how to use it, as well as having an accent which isn't totally out there, and also knowing enough about the game to talk about it on a decent level. There is always going to be a certain amount of "prejudice" people have when listening to female vs male commentators just because it's a female, and the majority of the sc2 audience (i believe) are male, and that isn't going to change for the forseeable future.

I'm just surprised you choose to discuss the fact that hosts sometimes are females who don't understand the game. Because there are just as many male hosts who don't understand the game as well.

Actually in my opinion, if you want to complain about something damaging the reputation of females who game seriously i would talk about all the girls who use the fact they are a girl as their main selling point, rather then their playing skill.

A few examples (nothing against these people personally or anything like that, they are just examples of a trend i've seen recently)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346852
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339222

Are two examples, both are girls trying to sell themselves as girls. Surely this is much more damaging to the professionalism, you seem to want, where there are no differences between how males and females are perceived. There is a certain double standard to saying "guys treat girl gamers differently" when the vocal 5% of female gamers, (who are the ones people hear, and therefore believe make up the majority of the female gaming scene) are advertising their stream as "starcraft with boobs" or something like that. This kind of advertising is just putting more focus on dividing male and female gamers rather then bringing them together.

I believe that the best way for female gamers to be treated equally is just to not put any focus on the fact that they are girls,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342346
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290288

These two streamers just acknowledge that they are girls and then move on, because IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. If girls want attention they should just get better, such as scarlett has done, and get noticed for results. I think it's the people who use the fact that they are female to get attention within the community rather then the professional mc's or interviewers doing their jobs who are undermining the equality.

Just my opinion ^.^


I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?

I think what you're taking up is a big issue as well, but I can't write about all issues, can I? There's too much to say about it. You, on the other hand, who seem to be more interested in just this specific thing than in what I wrote about, should start a thread on that! I would read it



Sorry if i came across as if i don't think the issue you raised is important at all, that was not my intention (almost 2 am so i'm a bit sleepy >.<)

I just feel that on the surface the gender inequality can seem a lot more prominent then it really is, because the things people see and read about are generally when a girl tries to get attention for being a girl, rather then for skill, and this can sour the image of the community when you have those 5% of girls who try and abuse the fact they are female being trolled/harrassed by the 5% of the males in the community who are douches. It's just that there is no real visible way to measure the "good" examples of male-female relations on the forum, as the good form of it is the silence because noone cares if you are a girl or not. Because the "good" is silence and the "bad" is a thread in which a bunch of people say spiteful things and get banned for it, then it can seem like the bad is overwhelming compared to the good.

Personally i feel that people recieving negative feedback from the community when they try and make a name for themselves before they are actually good at the game, both guys and girls get a lot of hate when the community thinks they are trying to just garner fame rather then actually trying to improve at the game. a few examples would be the entire bigT debacle, or people like combatex.

From my observations as a long time lurker/member on teamliquid, the only time girls get any kind of prejudice against them is when they start flaunting that title around or mentioning the fact they are a girl constantly, there are many long time members of the community who are girls, and most people know they are girls and it's just accepted.

It's a sensitive issue, but i feel the way it's being handled right now, where females who want to legitimately become casters or players can become that if they just put in the work and become as objectively good as the males, then i don't feel they are actually treated any worse. Sure Soe (or whatever her name was, didn't watch much of nasl) recieved a bit of flaming on the forums for whatever reasons, but generally other casters recieve just as much flaming, and often way more (such as hd at ipl, for example.) And While i recognise that sometimes the criticisms thrown at soe may have referred to her gender, the people throwing that kind of abuse around are people who just want to complain about something, and had it been a male caster then they would have just figured out a different insult to hurl.

jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 00:53:18
July 18 2012 00:53 GMT
#86
By saying "girls", "women", or even "ladies". "Males" and "females" are too nerdy/scientific terms to use if you're trying to be the "cool" ESPORT.

I use quotes too much. (also parentheses/slashes)
CapnAmerica
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States508 Posts
July 18 2012 00:56 GMT
#87
[image loading]

I think this is more or less what most people want.
After all this time, I still haven't figured out the correlation between sexual orientation and beating an unprepared opponent. Are homosexuals the next koreans? Many players seem to think it's an unfair advantage. - pandaburn
Capulet
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Canada686 Posts
July 18 2012 01:01 GMT
#88
On July 18 2012 09:50 BuddhaMonk wrote:
There is a real gender double standard in media. This is not unique to e-sports.

Take news anchors for example, you often see male anchors of various types of sizes, including older and overweight men. It's very rare to see anything other than a young attractive female anchor.

Then there's the related issue of sexualization of mostly women (but men to a lesser extent as well) in the media. Within the sub-category of sports, women are generally portrayed as what some here term "eye candy" in the form of cheerleaders, ringside girls, dancers, hostesses etc. Some people here are pointing to the larger media industry and saying "look other sports do it too" so there's nothing wrong with it.

The question people should be asking themselves is that if there are two equally qualified women vying for a hosting job and the woman who is generally considered more attractive gets the job 100% of the time, is there anything wrong with that? The unattractive woman may feel unfairly passed over while attractive woman who gets the job may feel like she only got the job because of her looks.

I'm not qualified to judge what the role of women in media means and whether the stereotyping and sexualization of women and men is truly good or bad. We are human after all and we cannot pretend to ignore that some people are more attractive than others. There's lots of research out there for those who care to uncover it. My only real point here is that this is a much larger issue than women in esports and people who simply say "this is the norm therefore it's OK" should take a look at the big picture.


This post pretty much covers all the grounds of this thread. Very well written.

I would just like to re-emphasize the point that this phenomenon extends beyond Starcraft and eSports. To correct this double standard means addressing the sexualization of women in all the above mentioned examples of media.

"I'm just killing the spiders to save the butterflies... Wanting to save both is a contradiction. What would you rather do? Keep deliberating? The butterfly will be eaten in the meantime."
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 18 2012 01:01 GMT
#89
That one liner on the first page was by far the most interesting and valuable post, if only for the cheap humor.

For everything else, just refer to Kennigit's recent blog on the subject that actually provided some interesting facts and detailed analysis instead of starting up a fairly bland campaign thread and rehashing the same discussion at least once every lunar cycle.
Kerotan
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
England2109 Posts
July 18 2012 01:02 GMT
#90
On July 18 2012 09:53 jalstar wrote:
By saying "girls", "women", or even "ladies". "Males" and "females" are too nerdy/scientific terms to use if you're trying to be the "cool" ESPORT.

I use quotes too much. (also parentheses/slashes)

Well also Male and Female are sexes, women, men, ladies, girls are gender terms, and more inclusive too.
Nerdette // External revolution - Internal revolution // Fabulous // I raise my hands to heaven of curiosity // I don't know what to ask for // What has it got for me? // Kerribear
MichaelDonovan
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1453 Posts
July 18 2012 01:02 GMT
#91
Welcome to sports. Cheerleaders, flag wavers, starter pistol firers etc. If this kind of thing is going to change, it's not going to start with Starcraft. It's going to start by getting rid of cheerleaders or something in a more mainstream sport.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
July 18 2012 01:04 GMT
#92
On July 18 2012 10:02 Kerotan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:53 jalstar wrote:
By saying "girls", "women", or even "ladies". "Males" and "females" are too nerdy/scientific terms to use if you're trying to be the "cool" ESPORT.

I use quotes too much. (also parentheses/slashes)

Well also Male and Female are sexes, women, men, ladies, girls are gender terms, and more inclusive too.


It's not really incorrect or anything, and I don't mind it, but it's something I've seen mostly on internet forums and scientific papers.

And it's using the words as nouns, not adjectives. There's a subtle difference in meaning that I can't really explain well via text.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 01:05 GMT
#93
On July 18 2012 10:02 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Welcome to sports. Cheerleaders, flag wavers, starter pistol firers etc. If this kind of thing is going to change, it's not going to start with Starcraft. It's going to start by getting rid of cheerleaders or something in a more mainstream sport.


Those 'mainstream' sports are not mainstream anywhere in Europe though afaik.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
nkr
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden5451 Posts
July 18 2012 01:07 GMT
#94
Is clutch with mlg and nasl for his good looks?
ESPORTS ILLUMINATI
DjDickGrayson
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States81 Posts
July 18 2012 01:09 GMT
#95
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Pretty much what I was going to post. She is adding to the production value, and sometimes instead of judging we should sit back and enjoy the show. Bless that girl's heart for turning down parts in commercials and being part of the gaming community.
Disco ● Lounge ● House
thurst0n
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States611 Posts
July 18 2012 01:09 GMT
#96
On July 18 2012 10:07 nkr wrote:
Is clutch with mlg and nasl for his good looks?

Yes, I believe so.

He has other qualities. But if he looked like Steve Buscemi, he might not have the same job.
P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
July 18 2012 01:10 GMT
#97
On July 18 2012 10:05 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:02 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Welcome to sports. Cheerleaders, flag wavers, starter pistol firers etc. If this kind of thing is going to change, it's not going to start with Starcraft. It's going to start by getting rid of cheerleaders or something in a more mainstream sport.


Those 'mainstream' sports are not mainstream anywhere in Europe though afaik.


Yeah :s... I don't know when i last saw cheerleaders at an event, but it was a while ago, starting pistol firers are almost always old slightly chubby men and i'm not sure what flags you are referring to? o.0

Either way, Electronic sports are in a sense a new frontier, one of the most attractive things about E-Sports is that everyone is equal behind a keyboard and monitor, whether they are a skinny white teenager or a 35 year old black single mother. While i agree that for roles where physical appearance helps them fulfill the role they are hired for, it's common sense to hire the most attractive host, there is no reason E-Sports should repeat the failings of other, older sports.
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:13:18
July 18 2012 01:11 GMT
#98
....The majority of the sc2 community are young males...young males like looking at hot women...why are you making this into some sort of feminist manifesto? There is no "media" sexualization of females, males view females as sexual creatures regardless of media---it's our biological and evolutionary imperative. If some female comes that provides something besides being eye candy, then that's good, but eye candy like Lauren is eye candy. You may as well ask "why do models have to be good looking?" Unless you are sexually oppressed there is absolutely nothing wrong with the presence of attractive women for the sake of attractive women, barring you end up stalking her.
AKomrade
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States582 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:13:33
July 18 2012 01:13 GMT
#99
On July 18 2012 10:04 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:02 Kerotan wrote:
On July 18 2012 09:53 jalstar wrote:
By saying "girls", "women", or even "ladies". "Males" and "females" are too nerdy/scientific terms to use if you're trying to be the "cool" ESPORT.

I use quotes too much. (also parentheses/slashes)

Well also Male and Female are sexes, women, men, ladies, girls are gender terms, and more inclusive too.


It's not really incorrect or anything, and I don't mind it, but it's something I've seen mostly on internet forums and scientific papers.

And it's using the words as nouns, not adjectives. There's a subtle difference in meaning that I can't really explain well via text.

I was going to post the same thing. And agree.

Its just a feeling the word conveys rather than the word itself. Can't think of the right adjectives, but they're long the lines of awkward and sterile. Also makes me think of a fashion show combined with an auction.



That being said, girls in games are over thought things to begin with and the specific topic of female hosts is fairly unimportant. A couple of people said above me that a host's job is to hold the viewer's attention and not be awkward on stage, which can be accomplished by anyone capable of it. How it is presented is more up to individual or perceived taste, not a person's gender. And if you don't like it, you can always stop watching when X is on screen.
ALL HAIL THE KING IN THE NORTH! HAIL! HAIL!
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:17:34
July 18 2012 01:17 GMT
#100
On July 18 2012 10:11 Heavenlee wrote:
....The majority of the sc2 community are young males...young males like looking at hot women...why are you making this into some sort of feminist manifesto? There is no "media" sexualization of females, males view females as sexual creatures regardless of media---it's our biological and evolutionary imperative. If some female comes that provides something besides being eye candy, then that's good, but eye candy like Lauren is eye candy. You may as well ask "why do models have to be good looking?" Unless you are sexually oppressed there is absolutely nothing wrong with the presence of attractive women for the sake of attractive women, barring you end up stalking her.


I'm not sure how you can say there's no sexualization of females and be taken seriously. One need only look at the media in, say the 1950's and 60's and compare it to today to notice the extremely stark difference. Now, the sexualization also extends to men as well so this street does go both ways. There's plenty of research that proves this to be the case, and it's not just a case of feminism. In fact you can argue that the sexualization of women has been largely perpetuated because of feminism and the sexual revolution. You can argue that it's not necessarily a bad thing but to argue that it has always been this way in media is just flat out wrong.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 18 2012 01:21 GMT
#101
I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?


are people jsut conveniently forgetting Scarlett?

if you go to an event, and you beat someone whos known you become known

the scene is outrageously hard to break into for everyone equally because all the scene actually cares about is skill thats why invite only tournaments or tournaments with only small number of spots given to open tournament qualifiers are so rare, its why some people dont watch tournys that dont have Koreans becuase ll people care about is skill

it doesnt matter if your black, asian, white, fat, skinny, muscular, lean, have great fasion sense, terrible fasion sense, bald, 10 foot pink mohawk or say all your sentences backward, if you go into a tournament and beat amazing players in amazing ways you will get tons of fans and most of them wont even know what you look like
FullNatural
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States180 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:33:09
July 18 2012 01:27 GMT
#102
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

I always find it hilarious when there is a female "host" at some kind of sporting event. MMA, football, basketball whatever. You know the only reason they are there is because of their looks. Sure they can get through the event withought major misshaps, but the phrases they use and the way they word questions is just silly sometimes. It's hard to explain, but you can tell that they generally do not have a real love for the sport and don't use the correct lingo etc.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 18 2012 01:29 GMT
#103
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

also its not like women are being forced at gun point to do these jobs, Models actually want to be models and like there job its not like they were completely unable to find any work and were found on the corner with a cardboard sign "will model for food"

some women like to look sexy and show it off hiring them isnt gender discrimination
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:29:59
July 18 2012 01:29 GMT
#104
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.
Natespank
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada449 Posts
July 18 2012 01:30 GMT
#105
Female hosts act as "social proof" for starcraft events. It's great for the community and esports in general. It "legitimizes" the scene. It's like how the male protagonist of movies getting the girl- the girl "social proofs" him - aka, legitimizes his character.

It's dumb, yeah, but that's what's going on. The hotter the girl, the stronger the effect :p
Akamu
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States309 Posts
July 18 2012 01:35 GMT
#106
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.


But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.





Well i wouldn't say that. As a matter of fact i'm very sexist. It's heavily frowned upon to say out loud but i am and i honestly think a lot of men are. Academically I think men and women are close... it's hard to prove otherwise. However there is no sport on earth that a woman could do better than a man. And by sport i mean physical competition. Boys high school state swim meet times are comparable and often faster than that of Olympic women's times. That's fact.

Back on topic

This thread is lame. Threads like this create the problem more than they help. She got the job cuz she looked good. Just like many other people in the world. It's how it goes and personally i'm happy for it. I like to look at pretty things.
I hear your heart beat to the beat of the drums, what a shame that you came here with someone.
FullNatural
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States180 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:37:15
July 18 2012 01:35 GMT
#107
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:35:48
July 18 2012 01:35 GMT
#108
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with the crowd. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
Torpedo.Vegas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1890 Posts
July 18 2012 01:35 GMT
#109
On July 18 2012 08:57 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:54 LgNKami wrote:
As a man I can say that a majority of the females online dont like telling people that they're females simply because (insert random percentage here) of men online dont know how to fucking act and tend to drive off most of the females. It was like that on Xbox Live. I used to play Gears of War alot (and if you know the gears community, they're pretty fucking hardcore nerds) and everytime a female spoke a word, all hell broke loose. Most of you are grown men with wives of your own, don't act like kids.

Females are humans just like males. If you ask me, most of the males need to fix their behavior around females rather than vice-versa.

you could replace female with any sort of minority or anything that makes someone different and it would still be accurate


I don't think it is to the same degree though. From my experience its far more common for a lone female gamer to get crap in a game (especially with a mic), then a minority of some kind. Unless it is an extremely rare minority. Like the Mew of Minorities.
wanghis
Profile Joined July 2011
United States320 Posts
July 18 2012 01:38 GMT
#110
This discussion reminds me of when season 1 had ms. Sporrer...
是那种想到他每天训练14个小时好辛苦就很心疼就想给他揉揉肩煲煲汤的那种爱
Torpedo.Vegas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1890 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:46:27
July 18 2012 01:39 GMT
#111
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with fans. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.


Its her accent. New people likely spend the first 10 minutes or so trying to rack their brains for an origin, all the while they unknowingly give her a chance without the female factor looming over. 5 minutes after that, she finishes some kind of nerd art that puts many creative nerds to shame, thus establishing her place of dominance in the community. Quite clever really....
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:46:09
July 18 2012 01:41 GMT
#112
On July 18 2012 10:17 BuddhaMonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:11 Heavenlee wrote:
....The majority of the sc2 community are young males...young males like looking at hot women...why are you making this into some sort of feminist manifesto? There is no "media" sexualization of females, males view females as sexual creatures regardless of media---it's our biological and evolutionary imperative. If some female comes that provides something besides being eye candy, then that's good, but eye candy like Lauren is eye candy. You may as well ask "why do models have to be good looking?" Unless you are sexually oppressed there is absolutely nothing wrong with the presence of attractive women for the sake of attractive women, barring you end up stalking her.


I'm not sure how you can say there's no sexualization of females and be taken seriously. One need only look at the media in, say the 1950's and 60's and compare it to today to notice the extremely stark difference. Now, the sexualization also extends to men as well so this street does go both ways. There's plenty of research that proves this to be the case, and it's not just a case of feminism. In fact you can argue that the sexualization of women has been largely perpetuated because of feminism and the sexual revolution. You can argue that it's not necessarily a bad thing but to argue that it has always been this way in media is just flat out wrong.


Read what I wrote. Sexualization of females is not a media thing, it's a human nature thing, which extends to the media. Regardless of whether there is sexuality in the 1950's and 60's, they kind of opppressed women far more than we do in modern times, and let's not forge the baby boom where everyone got knocked up all at once. There is a reason that women are looked at as sexual creatures, attractive people are valued over unattractive people especially for females, and why men like looking at attractive hostesses in general.

It appeals to our basic animal instincts, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to look at eye candy despite whoever wants to wax poetic about how women are being taken advantage of. Because who is being taken advantage of here? Lauren, who gets paid to be the hostess at an event where she dances around, gets to have fun? She's a playmate, I doubt she is too offended by guys sexualizing her and doesn't need some guy to write a thread on the internet defending her personal choice. Nor does any female who should be smart enough to realize why she was hired to be the hostess of a large gaming event that's 99% males. The idea in the OP that having a hot hostess at an event ruins the entire female gender and its attempt to get into e-sports...is just retarded. No one besides people in twitch.tv streamchats and youtube comments are going to compare Lauren to some girl gamer trying to make it big, it's just a completely random comparison that assumes everyone is stupid enough to not understand there's a difference.
Kerotan
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
England2109 Posts
July 18 2012 01:42 GMT
#113
On July 18 2012 10:21 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?


are people jsut conveniently forgetting Scarlett?

if you go to an event, and you beat someone whos known you become known

the scene is outrageously hard to break into for everyone equally because all the scene actually cares about is skill thats why invite only tournaments or tournaments with only small number of spots given to open tournament qualifiers are so rare, its why some people dont watch tournys that dont have Koreans becuase ll people care about is skill

it doesnt matter if your black, asian, white, fat, skinny, muscular, lean, have great fasion sense, terrible fasion sense, bald, 10 foot pink mohawk or say all your sentences backward, if you go into a tournament and beat amazing players in amazing ways you will get tons of fans and most of them wont even know what you look like

I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.
Nerdette // External revolution - Internal revolution // Fabulous // I raise my hands to heaven of curiosity // I don't know what to ask for // What has it got for me? // Kerribear
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:45:51
July 18 2012 01:42 GMT
#114
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:43:59
July 18 2012 01:43 GMT
#115
On July 18 2012 10:39 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with fans. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.


Its her accent. New people likely spend the first 10 minutes or so trying to rack their brains for an origin, all the while the unknowingly give her a chance with the female factor looming over. 5 minutes after that, she finishes some kind of nerd art that puts many creative nerds to shame, thus establishing her place of dominance in the community. Quite clever really....


Don't just go exposing secrets like that! Killing esports, man...

EDIT: Comment above me was pure win
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
freakhill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Japan463 Posts
July 18 2012 01:46 GMT
#116
TL is an international site.
This is typically the kind of question where people will never agree...
moo ForGG, Dragon, MVP, Gumiho, DRG, PartinG, Life]0[!
DongLongJohnson
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany143 Posts
July 18 2012 01:46 GMT
#117
No womens in eSport is the best thing. Most women in eSport are attention-whores who know nothing of the game.

User was warned for this post
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:52:29
July 18 2012 01:51 GMT
#118
This thread is ridiculous.

On July 18 2012 10:35 Akamu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.


But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.





Well i wouldn't say that. As a matter of fact i'm very sexist. It's heavily frowned upon to say out loud but i am and i honestly think a lot of men are. Academically I think men and women are close... it's hard to prove otherwise. However there is no sport on earth that a woman could do better than a man. And by sport i mean physical competition. Boys high school state swim meet times are comparable and often faster than that of Olympic women's times. That's fact.

That's not sexism...that's objective fact...lol?
Hello
ref4
Profile Joined March 2012
2933 Posts
July 18 2012 01:54 GMT
#119
Easy, with skill and results.

Looks don't matter, gender/biological sex doesn't matter, in the world of eSport where success is not determined by physical attributes (aside from fast fingers, really) a woman can succeed if she puts her mind into it.
Kerotan
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
England2109 Posts
July 18 2012 01:55 GMT
#120
On July 18 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

Show nested quote +
I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second

More or less agreed.
Yeah, of course if you just sit at home, you won't get that love, but then you aren't trying to be a starcraft player, you are just an eccentric person who sits at home.
Also , yes Scarlett is quiet, but she is also a woman, and transgender, she has a much more exciting narrative than just someone who is quiet. (also go checkout her post match interview on gamespot, she is quite talkative then)
Either way, debating the examples is less the point, my argument is that your personality and who you are has a significant impact on your marketability as a player at every stage of the profession, and we are in agreement on that.
However you didn't really deal with the notion that being a near homogeneous community of men is a barrier to entry, and that gaming in general is stigmatised as masculine activity by both men and women.
Nerdette // External revolution - Internal revolution // Fabulous // I raise my hands to heaven of curiosity // I don't know what to ask for // What has it got for me? // Kerribear
Daitakk
Profile Joined November 2011
77 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 01:59:56
July 18 2012 01:58 GMT
#121
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
July 18 2012 02:00 GMT
#122
On July 18 2012 10:58 Daitakk wrote:
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.

I like this word a lot.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:02:22
July 18 2012 02:00 GMT
#123
On July 18 2012 10:55 Kerotan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second

More or less agreed.
Yeah, of course if you just sit at home, you won't get that love, but then you aren't trying to be a starcraft player, you are just an eccentric person who sits at home.
Also , yes Scarlett is quiet, but she is also a woman, and transgender, she has a much more exciting narrative than just someone who is quiet. (also go checkout her post match interview on gamespot, she is quite talkative then)
Either way, debating the examples is less the point, my argument is that your personality and who you are has a significant impact on your marketability as a player at every stage of the profession, and we are in agreement on that.
However you didn't really deal with the notion that being a near homogeneous community of men is a barrier to entry, and that gaming in general is stigmatised as masculine activity by both men and women.

while i agree that it is generally viewed as a more MALE activity, it does not have to be a male activity and the only thing stopping females from competing at the level of Males is there attitude and the amount of effort that goes into it

it reminds me of this insanely old video from back in GSL open season 2 i think where Artosis is walking around the qualifiers with a video camera and hes filming Nada then he saids "but more importantly a girl!" and zooms in on her and people were talking about her for days

if a girl does what Scarlett did she would get just as much (if not more) attention then Scarlett, because i think at this point because its been so long without a real female pro gamer (just ignoring Scarlett for a second) that being female jsut isnt a real barrier anymore because there are so many people who want to see Females succeed that theyd help anyone with some skill over those barriers

all we really need is one female to pull it off and then every female will go "woa i guess we can be jsut as good as guys" and then theyll start flooding in the problem is no female has yet to really be willing to go against the stereotype yet the barriers stopping females is now so low that all it needs is one small push (maybe Scarlett even already gave it taht push and were just waiting for the ripples) and then that entire Stereotype will be gone
ref4
Profile Joined March 2012
2933 Posts
July 18 2012 02:01 GMT
#124
On July 18 2012 10:58 Daitakk wrote:
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.


agreed 100%.......but in terms of pro players who give a flying fuck about their appearances, all it matter is results.

LeGendzErg
Profile Joined January 2012
United States37 Posts
July 18 2012 02:02 GMT
#125
only the sc2 community would complain about hot women doing stuff.....sigh
-LeGendzErg 647
FullNatural
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States180 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:08:14
July 18 2012 02:02 GMT
#126
On July 18 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

Show nested quote +
I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second


So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.
babybell
Profile Joined June 2011
776 Posts
July 18 2012 02:04 GMT
#127
On July 18 2012 10:58 Daitakk wrote:
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.

Are you joking? Clutch is very far from being considered handsome..
BuddhaMonk
Profile Joined August 2010
781 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:05:49
July 18 2012 02:04 GMT
#128
On July 18 2012 10:41 Heavenlee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:17 BuddhaMonk wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:11 Heavenlee wrote:
....The majority of the sc2 community are young males...young males like looking at hot women...why are you making this into some sort of feminist manifesto? There is no "media" sexualization of females, males view females as sexual creatures regardless of media---it's our biological and evolutionary imperative. If some female comes that provides something besides being eye candy, then that's good, but eye candy like Lauren is eye candy. You may as well ask "why do models have to be good looking?" Unless you are sexually oppressed there is absolutely nothing wrong with the presence of attractive women for the sake of attractive women, barring you end up stalking her.


I'm not sure how you can say there's no sexualization of females and be taken seriously. One need only look at the media in, say the 1950's and 60's and compare it to today to notice the extremely stark difference. Now, the sexualization also extends to men as well so this street does go both ways. There's plenty of research that proves this to be the case, and it's not just a case of feminism. In fact you can argue that the sexualization of women has been largely perpetuated because of feminism and the sexual revolution. You can argue that it's not necessarily a bad thing but to argue that it has always been this way in media is just flat out wrong.


Read what I wrote. Sexualization of females is not a media thing, it's a human nature thing, which extends to the media. Regardless of whether there is sexuality in the 1950's and 60's, they kind of opppressed women far more than we do in modern times, and let's not forge the baby boom where everyone got knocked up all at once. There is a reason that women are looked at as sexual creatures, attractive people are valued over unattractive people especially for females, and why men like looking at attractive hostesses in general.

It appeals to our basic animal instincts, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to look at eye candy despite whoever wants to wax poetic about how women are being taken advantage of. Because who is being taken advantage of here? Lauren, who gets paid to be the hostess at an event where she dances around, gets to have fun? She's a playmate, I doubt she is too offended by guys sexualizing her and doesn't need some guy to write a thread on the internet defending her personal choice. Nor does any female who should be smart enough to realize why she was hired to be the hostess of a large gaming event that's 99% males. The idea in the OP that having a hot hostess at an event ruins the entire female gender and its attempt to get into e-sports...is just retarded. No one besides people in twitch.tv streamchats and youtube comments are going to compare Lauren to some girl gamer trying to make it big, it's just a completely random comparison that assumes everyone is stupid enough to not understand there's a difference.


There's two points I have for you.

First, you can't just say "humans are a sexual creature therefore anything related to sexualization of humans is OK". You can take that logic to disturbing extremes. Why not show porn to school children? Maybe a model should have been on a side stage at NASL finals naked and pleasuring herself - after all we're sexual beings and that's what appeals to our basic animal instincts right? If you don't agree with those statements then you should ask yourself why not and where exactly is that line and why is it right or wrong? Those are the real issues. Simply saying we're sexual beings doesn't actually tell us anything.

Second I would say that the argument that simply because humans have done something for a long time or throughout evolutionary history that it's OK or good to do. Humans have been practicing slavery since the dawn of time, should we simply accept that it's part of human nature and be OK with it, or should we work to remove of it from our culture?

Instead you should argue about the sexualization of men and women in media on its own merits. One argument which you alluded to (and I mentioned in the previous post) is that the current increase in sexualization of women in media is an unintended (or unforseen) side effect of feminism. So in a sense feminism is the cause but I think in general everyone agrees that we're better off now than we were then in the early days of media. All that being said I think the jury is still out on whether the mass consumption and presentation of men and women as being sexual first, human second is good or bad for society as a whole, especially with respect to the ease with which children have access to the same media.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
July 18 2012 02:05 GMT
#129
On July 18 2012 11:04 babybell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:58 Daitakk wrote:
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.

Are you joking? Clutch is very far from being considered handsome..

Are you joking? Clutch is a pretty handsome guy, and he carries himself well.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Kerotan
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
England2109 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:09:44
July 18 2012 02:07 GMT
#130
On July 18 2012 11:00 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:55 Kerotan wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second

More or less agreed.
Yeah, of course if you just sit at home, you won't get that love, but then you aren't trying to be a starcraft player, you are just an eccentric person who sits at home.
Also , yes Scarlett is quiet, but she is also a woman, and transgender, she has a much more exciting narrative than just someone who is quiet. (also go checkout her post match interview on gamespot, she is quite talkative then)
Either way, debating the examples is less the point, my argument is that your personality and who you are has a significant impact on your marketability as a player at every stage of the profession, and we are in agreement on that.
However you didn't really deal with the notion that being a near homogeneous community of men is a barrier to entry, and that gaming in general is stigmatised as masculine activity by both men and women.

while i agree that it is generally viewed as a more MALE activity, it does not have to be a male activity and the only thing stopping females from competing at the level of Males is there attitude and the amount of effort that goes into it

it reminds me of this insanely old video from back in GSL open season 2 i think where Artosis is walking around the qualifiers with a video camera and hes filming Nada then he saids "but more importantly a girl!" and zooms in on her and people were talking about her for days

if a girl does what Scarlett did she would get just as much (if not more) attention then Scarlett, because i think at this point because its been so long without a real female pro gamer (just ignoring Scarlett for a second) that being female jsut isnt a real barrier anymore because there are so many people who want to see Females succeed that theyd help anyone with some skill over those barriers

all we really need is one female to pull it off and then every female will go "woa i guess we can be jsut as good as guys" and then theyll start flooding in the problem is no female has yet to really be willing to go against the stereotype yet

I think more than one :D but yes, I agree with the central premise, I would love it even if mainstream gaming was still borked, but esports had a gender balance close to 50 to 50, where being a girl would be less easy to market, because there would be so many high level women players, and where women new to the scene would join and not feel like a rarefied commodity to be treasured and nurtured.

On July 18 2012 11:05 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:04 babybell wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:58 Daitakk wrote:
Sex Sells. Now that the inescapably obvious is out of the way lets look at Lauren's male counter-part at the NASL finals: Clutch.

I'll say it right now, Clutch is a dapper handsome bastard. If Clutch was a 500lb neckbeard he would not be where he is despite putting in the same effort.

Its not really sexism, its sexyism.

edit: This discussion seems to be derailing a bit. I'm pretty sure the OP wants to discuss women used as eye-candy for presentation purposes and not female gamers. Female gamers is a complicated discussion and should be kept seperate imo.

Are you joking? Clutch is very far from being considered handsome..

Are you joking? Clutch is a pretty handsome guy, and he carries himself well.

For what its worth, he is pretty attractive and also a good dancer, both traditionally attractive commodities, if you really want the inside scoop on who is attractive, Kenniegut is desirable.
Nerdette // External revolution - Internal revolution // Fabulous // I raise my hands to heaven of curiosity // I don't know what to ask for // What has it got for me? // Kerribear
howdoiskill
Profile Joined June 2012
United States12 Posts
July 18 2012 02:08 GMT
#131
inb4 women can play SC2 and they should have knowledge if they're going to cast... But a female host isn't required to have the knowledge, nor is a male host.
"I show protoss IMBA." - WhiteRa
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 18 2012 02:12 GMT
#132
On July 18 2012 11:02 FullNatural wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:42 Forikorder wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.

girls cant hang with the guys because they jsut arent as dedicated to sit in the team house and grind out 12 hours a day

look at teenage girls text and tell me they dont ahve hand dexterity and hand eye coordination

I love this attitude, its quite naive,
Skill is important, but imagine this scenario, 2 equally skilled players, one is quiet and reserved, a few words in interviews here or there, the other a bombastic, well spoken, handsome individual who is funny, and interviews very well.
Who is going the receive sponsorship? The answer is clear.
Who you are maters, as well as how well you play, you are sponsored by a team, to help market a product.
Besides, this is not the real issue of women in Esport, the issue is that gaming in general is perceived by both men and women as a masculine activity, we as a community help perpetuate this idea, as well as people outside of gaming.
Esport on the whole is similar, a homogeneous male environment which I think acts more as a barrier to entry than something that inhibits people inside the space.
This is why things like girls of starcraft and the gay starcraft players exist, mostly to help these minorities deal with the space, but also to encourage new people to enter into the space.
So gaming as a whole needs to be more gender inclusive, but it is difficult for us as one community within this subset to change the whole, so we should start by changing ourselves, if only to show that we are quick to change to adopting healthy ideas about sex and gender.


your attitude isnt even going to come into play until you have a result to back it up or troll people streaming

it doesnt matter if you have the craziest personality ever if you dont actually do well i a tournament your jsut practicing in front of a mirror

also "quiet, reserved saids few words in interviews" thats scarlett she wins WCS barely squeaks out a few words and disapears

if your an Idra or a Naniwa you can get more exposure a bit easier but people are still going to look at skill first personality second


So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.

are you like some sort of male supremacist or something?

Females dont play video games for 12 hours a day because they dont want to and dont have the motivation to for some reason, not because they tried it and didnt get good enough to compete
Kyrao
Profile Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
July 18 2012 02:21 GMT
#133
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Tossgirl was pretty cute... maybe that's just me though *shrug*

Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 02:35 GMT
#134
This is a very good vlog by Kennigit about this. Well kind of.

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=350761
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
July 18 2012 02:36 GMT
#135
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game


Can someone link to one of them? I frankly don't know of any female profiles in the Starcraft community that have the presence and charisma necessary to be a host.

In general, to be a host in either SC2 or in any other kind of event, one needs to be presentable. The woman doesn't have to be hot, but she needs to put a whole lot more effort into her looks than a man (who in most cases will be fine with a shave, a haircut and a good suit).

On a side note, if there are no "gamer girls" available and the event wants a female host, might as well get a good-looking one. Same as it would if they were hiring a male host who doesn't know jack about the game. I commend Lauren Elise for her work and sincerely doubt her presence was detrimental to the future presence of women in professional, non-player SC2
Bora Pain minha porra!
Animostas
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States568 Posts
July 18 2012 02:37 GMT
#136
If you're looking for a host of an event, you shouldn't think of men and women as seperate entities, and if you have a business, think, "Do I want a male or a female hosting this event?" You look at individuals with their own strengths, weaknesses, and talents, and pick the one that you think is best for the event. For example Clutch and Day9 are perfectly awesome hosts and are able to bring a ton of hype to events. It's silly to think, "I need a woman here because there's not enough women." I don't see the point in having affirmative action in eSports
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:43:59
July 18 2012 02:42 GMT
#137
On July 18 2012 11:04 BuddhaMonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:41 Heavenlee wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:17 BuddhaMonk wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:11 Heavenlee wrote:
....The majority of the sc2 community are young males...young males like looking at hot women...why are you making this into some sort of feminist manifesto? There is no "media" sexualization of females, males view females as sexual creatures regardless of media---it's our biological and evolutionary imperative. If some female comes that provides something besides being eye candy, then that's good, but eye candy like Lauren is eye candy. You may as well ask "why do models have to be good looking?" Unless you are sexually oppressed there is absolutely nothing wrong with the presence of attractive women for the sake of attractive women, barring you end up stalking her.


I'm not sure how you can say there's no sexualization of females and be taken seriously. One need only look at the media in, say the 1950's and 60's and compare it to today to notice the extremely stark difference. Now, the sexualization also extends to men as well so this street does go both ways. There's plenty of research that proves this to be the case, and it's not just a case of feminism. In fact you can argue that the sexualization of women has been largely perpetuated because of feminism and the sexual revolution. You can argue that it's not necessarily a bad thing but to argue that it has always been this way in media is just flat out wrong.


Read what I wrote. Sexualization of females is not a media thing, it's a human nature thing, which extends to the media. Regardless of whether there is sexuality in the 1950's and 60's, they kind of opppressed women far more than we do in modern times, and let's not forge the baby boom where everyone got knocked up all at once. There is a reason that women are looked at as sexual creatures, attractive people are valued over unattractive people especially for females, and why men like looking at attractive hostesses in general.

It appeals to our basic animal instincts, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to look at eye candy despite whoever wants to wax poetic about how women are being taken advantage of. Because who is being taken advantage of here? Lauren, who gets paid to be the hostess at an event where she dances around, gets to have fun? She's a playmate, I doubt she is too offended by guys sexualizing her and doesn't need some guy to write a thread on the internet defending her personal choice. Nor does any female who should be smart enough to realize why she was hired to be the hostess of a large gaming event that's 99% males. The idea in the OP that having a hot hostess at an event ruins the entire female gender and its attempt to get into e-sports...is just retarded. No one besides people in twitch.tv streamchats and youtube comments are going to compare Lauren to some girl gamer trying to make it big, it's just a completely random comparison that assumes everyone is stupid enough to not understand there's a difference.


There's two points I have for you.

First, you can't just say "humans are a sexual creature therefore anything related to sexualization of humans is OK". You can take that logic to disturbing extremes. Why not show porn to school children? Maybe a model should have been on a side stage at NASL finals naked and pleasuring herself - after all we're sexual beings and that's what appeals to our basic animal instincts right? If you don't agree with those statements then you should ask yourself why not and where exactly is that line and why is it right or wrong? Those are the real issues. Simply saying we're sexual beings doesn't actually tell us anything.

Second I would say that the argument that simply because humans have done something for a long time or throughout evolutionary history that it's OK or good to do. Humans have been practicing slavery since the dawn of time, should we simply accept that it's part of human nature and be OK with it, or should we work to remove of it from our culture?

Instead you should argue about the sexualization of men and women in media on its own merits. One argument which you alluded to (and I mentioned in the previous post) is that the current increase in sexualization of women in media is an unintended (or unforseen) side effect of feminism. So in a sense feminism is the cause but I think in general everyone agrees that we're better off now than we were then in the early days of media. All that being said I think the jury is still out on whether the mass consumption and presentation of men and women as being sexual first, human second is good or bad for society as a whole, especially with respect to the ease with which children have access to the same media.


Your analogies are just...ridiculous. Do I seriously even have to respond to this? One, there is a difference between showing porn to school children and there being a hot hostess at a gaming event. Two, there is a difference between a model masturbating at a live event and a hot hostess at a gaming event. Do you not understand the concept of "degrees" of something?

Comparing, again, viewing attractive people as being nicer to look at to slavery...okay.

Seriously, just what am I reading. This is like me saying it's okay to have mixed martial arts and you start talking about the negative ramifications of war and asking if I agree with the slaughter of innocent civilians.
mostevil
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom611 Posts
July 18 2012 02:43 GMT
#138
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with the crowd. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.

She's grade A at dodging creepy advances from popular community figures too.
Personally, I don't like watching ugly people generally, male or female. But by the same measure I'm not entirely comfortable with someone being there who's only purpose is to look pretty, especially if its in a host/interviewer role.
However I think alot of the community just like to see "guys like themselves", which might in part explain the general misogyny of the community and popularity of angry or geeky awkward type characters whom I personally find few qualities in.
我的媽和她的瘋狂的外甥都
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
July 18 2012 02:45 GMT
#139
I totally love Soe; most of what she said in Soe's Corner I didn't know (about the history of units, etc)

Yeah that's all I wanted to contribute to this riveting discussion -_-''
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:53:34
July 18 2012 02:47 GMT
#140
Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.

Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.
Do you think Tasteless's popularity has something to do with the fact that he is tall and handsome? It does.

I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to also be a lot of adolescent males in the community, and adolescent males have a tendency to act stupid about women.
Kyrao
Profile Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 02:52:59
July 18 2012 02:48 GMT
#141

So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.


I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...

Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool from which they draw their best/brightest players is much larger.

The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males, as we see today.

As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.

Basically... we need more Scarlett.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 18 2012 02:49 GMT
#142
I think this has long been a advertising slogan, but it's a pretty simple truth, "sex sells".

It's fine to use sexiness to appeal to a wider audience, so long as it doesn't interfere with requirements/skill level of certain jobs (casting/playing/etc). Just look at cheerleaders for other sports, they're the sex appeal for the sport, but they don't interfere with the importance of the sport either, you don't see sexy females trying to cast a basketball game, do you?, nor do you see sexy females trying to play, as well.

liftlift > tsm
Akasha
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States261 Posts
July 18 2012 02:52 GMT
#143
If they are going to use hot women maybe they can make the male hosts look a little bit better or dress better. Some of them just look sloppy compared to the female host.
Writer
ownyah
Profile Joined April 2012
146 Posts
July 18 2012 02:53 GMT
#144
I like how he says `` this is a male-dominated`` community and therefore it is accepted that only hot girls are allowed.

What a fucking load of bullshit, women are equally or even more so superficial.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 02:53 GMT
#145
On July 18 2012 10:21 Forikorder wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?


are people jsut conveniently forgetting Scarlett?

if you go to an event, and you beat someone whos known you become known

the scene is outrageously hard to break into for everyone equally because all the scene actually cares about is skill thats why invite only tournaments or tournaments with only small number of spots given to open tournament qualifiers are so rare, its why some people dont watch tournys that dont have Koreans becuase ll people care about is skill

it doesnt matter if your black, asian, white, fat, skinny, muscular, lean, have great fasion sense, terrible fasion sense, bald, 10 foot pink mohawk or say all your sentences backward, if you go into a tournament and beat amazing players in amazing ways you will get tons of fans and most of them wont even know what you look like


It's one way, but then again for instance Destiny has a bigger fan base than code A together probably.
Streaming is probably the best way to get a fan base if that's what you want.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 18 2012 02:53 GMT
#146
On July 18 2012 11:48 Kyrao wrote:
Show nested quote +

So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.


I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...

Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool .

The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males.

As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.

Basically... we need more Scarlett.

playing devils advocate, if this was the case, wouldn't we see a influx of female grandmaster chess players? again, still predominately male. poker? predominately male.

now I'm not necessarily chopping this up to be "MEN BETTER THAN FEMALE, NO MATTER WHAT", but it does beg the question, "why?" I think a lot of it has to do with social stereotypes, and how they're often self fulfilling process.

Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2.
liftlift > tsm
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44260 Posts
July 18 2012 02:54 GMT
#147
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote:
Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.

Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.

I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.


I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
July 18 2012 02:57 GMT
#148
Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.

Eye candy presenters are not ideal, but hey, I'd rather watch eye candy than some clueless guy who makes jokes about how many times his nose was broken.

The sad truth is that most people aren't particularly interested in knowledgeable commentators/presenters. They'll take it, but only if it's included with good presentation.

And yes, I'll come out and say that a hottie with knowledge is my ideal presenter.
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
July 18 2012 03:03 GMT
#149
Kennigit goes more in depth about this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=350761
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
oogieogie
Profile Joined June 2011
United States3657 Posts
July 18 2012 03:04 GMT
#150
How else are females going to be present in SC2 besides just being eye candy or some other non competing role? I mean if a female was as good as stephano or MKP or DRG etc. then it would be easy to just send them to events to compete, but there is so far none of that for any competitive game I can think of that had a female in the normal roster. Also seperate tournaments for men/females just doesn't seem right to me when you try to be the best, and you can't do that when you seperate.

So there is either being eye candy or just annoucing/interviewing players.

Prophanity
Profile Joined January 2012
United States165 Posts
July 18 2012 03:07 GMT
#151
On July 18 2012 11:57 Yaotzin wrote:
Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.


Well in football (the real one, silly...every other country in the world!) we have that same thing. I mean you may not know who John Madden is but suffice it to say that he's a former player/coach/broadcaster whose contributions to a broadcast included telling you how many points a touchdown is worth....
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
July 18 2012 03:10 GMT
#152
On July 18 2012 12:07 Prophanity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:57 Yaotzin wrote:
Well in football (the real one you silly Americans!), the only criteria appear to be the ability to form semi-coherent sentences, and fill airtime. Being a former player seems a great help, but this doesn't help them actually know the first thing about the game, so this is likely caused by having buddies in the right places.


Well in football (the real one, silly...every other country in the world!) we have that same thing. I mean you may not know who John Madden is but suffice it to say that he's a former player/coach/broadcaster whose contributions to a broadcast included telling you how many points a touchdown is worth....

Oh even I know who Madden is. Which, it seems, is pretty much why he's a commentator.

The only game I can think of where this doesn't happen is cricket. For some reason the guys doing that often really do know their stuff.
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
July 18 2012 03:16 GMT
#153
Sorry-- this is part of show business. You think those hot female sideline interviewers they have in football are there because of their interviewing skills? Cheerleaders are there cause of their ability to rally a team? Booth girls because of their knowledge of technical issues that may arise pre game? That sexy bikini chick holding the sign in a boxing match cause of her ability to not trip over herself?

Look at some honest examples from other competitive arenas and then swallow your moral outrage. It's one thing to say "I hate that they used an unqualified caster/commentator/whatever" and another to say "this demeans women" because sexualization is part of entertainment and plenty of women don't mind being attractive or sexy for an audience as part of their job... Same works for guys. Tasteless would not be as big a deal as he is if not for his looks.
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
tehmisk
Profile Joined July 2012
10 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 03:22:16
July 18 2012 03:18 GMT
#154
On July 18 2012 11:48 Kyrao wrote:
Show nested quote +

So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.


I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...

Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool from which they draw their best/brightest players is much larger.

The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males, as we see today.

As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.

Basically... we need more Scarlett.


personally i have a problem if scarlett plays in female only tournaments. its unfair to the other girls in it who were born with no y chromosome

its the y chromosome that produces more aggressive and combative traits in humans. without it females are at a genetic disadvantage.










ok when i said the y chromosome, i meant testosterone mostly but its not JUST testosterone. only humans with the y chromosome (males) will experience huge testosterone boosts in their life.

but i dont think its JUST testosterone. one can make a very plausible theory that the y chromosome also effects brain formation to cause more aggressive and combative brains in humans. but thats just my theory

User was temp banned for this post.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 18 2012 03:21 GMT
#155
On July 18 2012 12:16 Zahir wrote:
Sorry-- this is part of show business. You think those hot female sideline interviewers they have in football are there because of their interviewing skills? Cheerleaders are there cause of their ability to rally a team? Booth girls because of their knowledge of technical issues that may arise pre game? That sexy bikini chick holding the sign in a boxing match cause of her ability to not trip over herself?

Look at some honest examples from other competitive arenas and then swallow your moral outrage. It's one thing to say "I hate that they used an unqualified caster/commentator/whatever" and another to say "this demeans women" because sexualization is part of entertainment and plenty of women don't mind being attractive or sexy for an audience as part of their job... Same works for guys. Tasteless would not be as big a deal as he is if not for his looks.

In terms of basketball, a lot of the female commentators aren't exactly sexy, or good looking by any means, but they do a really good job at interviews, especially Cheryl Miller.
liftlift > tsm
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 03:25:21
July 18 2012 03:22 GMT
#156
On July 18 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote:
Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.

Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.

I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.


I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.


I can't disagree with you at all here. Hiring someone just because they are attractive is borderline outragious; there are tons of people in the community giving up their lives just to attempt to make it "in."

There are also tons of experienced hosts outside the community who, be it their positive energy, looks, stage presence, etc., have a lot to offer. It doesn't take a lot of Starcraft knowledge to host a SC event. Anyone can learn tournament brackets and a couple anecdotes to tell the crowd. I am all for having a super experienced host who may know nothing about SC beforehand, as long as they are trying their hardest and doing a good job. Snoop Dogg as a future host of MLG? YES PLEASE.

But someone who is just attractive who doesn't have any idea what's really going on and isn't making a serious effort, just parading around being pretty, that's just bad.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
July 18 2012 03:25 GMT
#157
I admittedly didn`t watch all of NASL but from what I saw her role doesn`t really require her to know much about starcraft. To me she was eye candy much like those UFC ring girls, I don`t need them to know jack about sc2. I thought the host was Day9 and Soe or am I missing something?
brokor
Profile Joined June 2011
Greece235 Posts
July 18 2012 03:30 GMT
#158
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.
Winter is Coming
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
July 18 2012 03:33 GMT
#159
Looking good is a gift, not an accomplishment. It's true that it's little different to being smart though. The working hard one is more debateable, but one can make a case.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 03:34 GMT
#160
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Swift118
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom335 Posts
July 18 2012 03:36 GMT
#161
An attractive female is a charming creature indeed. I sense the OP is possibly a somewhat jealous female.
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 03:45:06
July 18 2012 03:44 GMT
#162
I just wish one girl would take a bullet for their team.

Ladder. Practice. Make a |||||||||||||||||||||| account and don't talk to people. Don't tell people you are a girl. Don't tell them you are a boy. Just practice. Put in the 6-8 hours a day, and show up at a tourney and try to shine.

If a female does even marginally well and gets attention, teams will often take them in. Is this sexist? Possibly, but if it helps jumpstart female competitive gamers a little, then I don't see an issue with it as much...This will give that woman greater practice options and teammates to practice with hopefully.

I can see problems with my little naive wish in Korea, where good players are expected to sit in an apartment all day with 20 other males, and could see issues with that... but in Europe there are plenty of males making names for themselves without living in super dedicated team houses. They might not be korean level (besides naniwa, stephano, sase, thorzain, nerchio, and a few other standouts), but they are competitive and get invited to tourneys and stuff.

I think the best female player before Scarlett (won't get into THAT discussion in this thread), was megumixbear, who....... just seemed to fade out of existence. She appeared on Destiny's stream a few times and I have never heard anything from her since that didn't involve female-only tourneys.

What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated. Are there ANY women actually playing this game competitively besides Scarlett? Do ANY of them actually practice hard? 6-10 hours a day like a Naniwa? I do not mean to offend any that do, but I have heard of none and have paid attention to female players hoping one would appear. Yet I just don't see it happening. I see them get marginally popular then start streaming with 500 viewers... and that's it really.

I understand there are a low number of them, but even if .5% of the SC2 players are female, there should still be at least 2-3 standouts.

Regardless of the issues Scarlett causes, I hope Scarlett will be a focal point for woman gamers to step up and put in the time.
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
July 18 2012 03:45 GMT
#163
On July 18 2012 12:22 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote:
Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.

Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.

I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.


I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.


I can't disagree with you at all here. Hiring someone just because they are attractive is borderline outragious; there are tons of people in the community giving up their lives just to attempt to make it "in."

There are also tons of experienced hosts outside the community who, be it their positive energy, looks, stage presence, etc., have a lot to offer. It doesn't take a lot of Starcraft knowledge to host a SC event. Anyone can learn tournament brackets and a couple anecdotes to tell the crowd. I am all for having a super experienced host who may know nothing about SC beforehand, as long as they are trying their hardest and doing a good job. Snoop Dogg as a future host of MLG? YES PLEASE.

But someone who is just attractive who doesn't have any idea what's really going on and isn't making a serious effort, just parading around being pretty, that's just bad.


I think this is the most accurate description of what is going on here. I would say their decision to use eye candy where knowledgeability was wanted was tacky, a bit of an insult to commentators, fans and ms Lauren. Not that eye candy is a concept that is demeaning to men or women, but there is a time and place for it. Audiences are somewhat perverted, but not so perverted that eyecandy can be substituted in for every aspect of a production. Clearly a mismanaging of talent has occurred.
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:33:55
July 18 2012 03:52 GMT
#164
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?

With respect to E-sports, or sports in general, women have been on display for their sex appeal for decades. It's a part of the show. It doesn't detract from the main event anymore than it would in football or baseball.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:02 GMT
#165
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:24:29
July 18 2012 04:04 GMT
#166
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.

it's considered "BAD" in our culture to admit men are primarily attracted to looks. i don't understand why. This entire post suggests it's bad to admire a womans beauty, and that somehow it's bad for E-Sports to have attractive women just because they are attractive. Guys like looking at attractive women. it's a fact, otherwise they wouldn't be hired for such jobs.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:13:22
July 18 2012 04:07 GMT
#167
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:08 GMT
#168
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


That's actually not what I said.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:30:51
July 18 2012 04:18 GMT
#169
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.

this Lauren girl who was the host may be brilliant. She could have masters degrees for all I know. Bjut she's chosen to make a career out of her looks. Which is fine. And there's nothing wrong with tournaments and sporting events hiring attractive women. It doesn't hurt E-Sports in any way
Kyrao
Profile Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:28:06
July 18 2012 04:19 GMT
#170
On July 18 2012 11:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:48 Kyrao wrote:

So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.


I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...

Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool .

The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males.

As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.

Basically... we need more Scarlett.

playing devils advocate, if this was the case, wouldn't we see a influx of female grandmaster chess players? again, still predominately male. poker? predominately male.

now I'm not necessarily chopping this up to be "MEN BETTER THAN FEMALE, NO MATTER WHAT", but it does beg the question, "why?" I think a lot of it has to do with social stereotypes, and how they're often self fulfilling process.

Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2.


I think you have a good point there. Males are inherently drawn to more competitive activities. I do not think that invalidates my point about pool sizes, it simply adds to the reasoning for the culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time. The solution remains the same, even if we will never reach full equality of representation due to the genetics.

Also, I think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:02:00
July 18 2012 04:23 GMT
#171
It think the most pertinent issue to bring up is that there's probably much more qualified women hosts than Lauren in the sense of conversation, questions, passion, diction, etc.
It may be hard to find a woman who's good/knowledgeable at Starcraft, but should not be hard to find a woman who is good at speaking/interviewing/commentating in general, and maybe likes games and is attractive as a side note.

That kind of person should be second choice to a person who's reasonably good at Starcraft or at least knows a lot about it, and isn't terrible at public speaking.

The choice here just seemed strange — I don't see the point of having people who don't know about the game and don't necessarily do much public speaking.
On July 18 2012 13:19 Kyrao wrote:
Also, I'm think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point.

1. One can't ever (at least with current technology) actually be physically female if born male. If one organ is made to look like another that doesn't make them physically a different gender, it just sometimes allows for them to legally change their gender (that can be done without surgery depending on the region. In Ontario one can legally change their gender without a surgery)
2. I rather doubt the had sexual reassignment surgery (because it's still not very common), but I don't know.
3. Mostly because of #1, the whole issue on "physical status" doesn't matter — it's mostly hormones and brain mechanics that affects who a person is.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
July 18 2012 04:25 GMT
#172
On July 18 2012 13:18 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.


Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post.

So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise.
Creationism
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
China505 Posts
July 18 2012 04:26 GMT
#173
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?
The hoi polloi is the plague upon the world.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:29 GMT
#174
On July 18 2012 13:26 Creationism wrote:
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?


Nothing else going on, is there?
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
July 18 2012 04:32 GMT
#175
On July 18 2012 13:29 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:26 Creationism wrote:
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?


Nothing else going on, is there?


You shouldn't answer rhetorical questions.

Oh wait, damn it, I just answered a rhetorical question.
GertHeart
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States631 Posts
July 18 2012 04:33 GMT
#176
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.
He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:42:17
July 18 2012 04:41 GMT
#177
On July 18 2012 13:25 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:18 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.


Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post.

So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise.

People often read their own meanings into things, not what was actually said. Especially when you say something they disagree with or is considered unacceptable by today's societal rules. people are overly sensative.
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
July 18 2012 04:43 GMT
#178
What do you mean, 'you people'?
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:59:29
July 18 2012 04:53 GMT
#179
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'?


What do you mean, 'you people'?







On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek.
That's how I've been raised, sad as it is.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
July 18 2012 04:58 GMT
#180
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.
JeanLuc
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada377 Posts
July 18 2012 04:59 GMT
#181
I don't see anything wrong with having attractive women at esports events. Its not at all uncommon in other sporting events. It gives the whole thing an air of professionalism and excitement.

In regards to the other discussion that has spun off the OP, namely women and esports, I will just say that not long ago in Chess, a female player named Judit Polgar ascended to rank 3 in the world. Since that time I think she's faded a bit. But nevertheless considering the low percentage of women who play chess compared to men I think this shows rather conclusively that women can play as well as men, there is no definite "gender barrier", but rather just the statistics at play.

Although I do think that genetically men are much more inclined to enjoy playing chess, or starcraft, and that this isn't necessarily just culture at work.

If you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth-- you don't deserve to wear that uniform
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 05:01 GMT
#182
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
anklebreak
Profile Joined February 2012
92 Posts
July 18 2012 05:04 GMT
#183
uhh yea... so i like just google'd who Lauren Elise is and i ended up with some NSFW playboy vid of this blonde girl with the same name that looks just like her...
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:10:24
July 18 2012 05:09 GMT
#184
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:10:20
July 18 2012 05:09 GMT
#185
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.

I really hope humanity evolves past the "booth babes" phase, because we should have enough self-control to be able to resist "sex sells". I am always reminded of the "box test" of DUNE. How many of you guys would be able to say NO to a hot, naked and willing girl you dont know in your bedroom? Sadly not a lot and that is the bad part for humanitys sake, because it means that ad campaigns will always be able to find at least a few suckers who buy any sort of useless garbage product just by putting in some "hot chicks".

The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:13:35
July 18 2012 05:13 GMT
#186
On July 18 2012 12:44 SafeAsCheese wrote:
What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated.


maybe not for sc2, but tossgirl was and just retired, sadly
jaedong imba
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
July 18 2012 05:15 GMT
#187
On July 18 2012 14:13 slappy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:44 SafeAsCheese wrote:
What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated.


maybe not for sc2, but tossgirl was and just retired, sadly

i don't think this is true. I'm sure a lot of girls are dedacated but it's difficult to be a pro and the number of females playing I assume is very small compared to the males.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 05:16 GMT
#188
On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.


I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:25:05
July 18 2012 05:22 GMT
#189
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.

I really hope humanity evolves past the "booth babes" phase, because we should have enough self-control to be able to resist "sex sells". I am always reminded of the "box test" of DUNE. How many of you guys would be able to say NO to a hot, naked and willing girl you dont know in your bedroom? Sadly not a lot and that is the bad part for humanitys sake, because it means that ad campaigns will always be able to find at least a few suckers who buy any sort of useless garbage product just by putting in some "hot chicks".

The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.

Well in her defense, even if we dont count in the looks, imo lauren did much better at her job than many other people who worked for nasl in the event.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
July 18 2012 05:24 GMT
#190
On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.


I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.

There's plenty of ugly guys casting and doing other duties. (Just kidding)

You guys need to lighten up. So they hired an attractive female. They've been doing this all the time. Anna prosser and the other female who often do the interviews are very attractive girls. I'm sure there are other people who know more about starcraft that could conduct the interviews. it's part of the show. Starcraft is entertainment, and they are part of the entertainment.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 05:28 GMT
#191
On July 18 2012 14:24 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.


I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.

There's plenty of ugly guys casting and doing other duties. (Just kidding)

You guys need to lighten up. So they hired an attractive female. They've been doing this all the time. Anna prosser and the other female who often do the interviews are very attractive girls. I'm sure there are other people who know more about starcraft that could conduct the interviews. it's part of the show. Starcraft is entertainment, and they are part of the entertainment.


Up for some ZvG?
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Flamingo777
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1190 Posts
July 18 2012 05:30 GMT
#192
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.

I don't like the use of the word "present" in the title either. It makes it seem as though those in control are manipulating them.
hkf
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Australia354 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:41:19
July 18 2012 05:40 GMT
#193
Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.

Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:47:20
July 18 2012 05:44 GMT
#194
On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.


I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.

You have to stop thinking in a "black and white" scheme when it comes to looks and a lot more tolerance is called for from everyone on the looks of people. There isnt only "beautiful" and "ugly". The majority of people look "average" or "normal" and most of the time girls others call "hot" I would call "not my style". Guys arent automatically ugly, they are just normal looking guys and only look ugly in comparison to someone from the "beautiful sex".

On July 18 2012 14:40 hkf wrote:
Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.

Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs.

As long as these fans have a qualification on being entertaining you have my support. Pure playing skill isnt as important, some knowledge of the game can help though and being an enthusiastic viewer of eSport events will be a definite plus.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
mahO
Profile Joined April 2011
France274 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:51:27
July 18 2012 05:51 GMT
#195
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.


AHAHAHAHA. Wait, are you serious? Well then... AHAHAHAHAH, but now i'm mocking your stupidity.
Have you ever seen a professional female musician? Yes.
Problem solved, My work here is done! Goodbye everybody!

(Idiot...)

User was temp banned for this post.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 05:55 GMT
#196
On July 18 2012 14:44 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.


We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.

It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.

Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.


I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.

You have to stop thinking in a "black and white" scheme when it comes to looks and a lot more tolerance is called for from everyone on the looks of people. There isnt only "beautiful" and "ugly". The majority of people look "average" or "normal" and most of the time girls others call "hot" I would call "not my style". Guys arent automatically ugly, they are just normal looking guys and only look ugly in comparison to someone from the "beautiful sex".

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:40 hkf wrote:
Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.

Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs.

As long as these fans have a qualification on being entertaining you have my support. Pure playing skill isnt as important, some knowledge of the game can help though and being an enthusiastic viewer of eSport events will be a definite plus.


I was trying to be mildly entertaining..... At first I actually wrote 'morbidly deformed' but decided that was a bit over the top.
Point is that when I'm watching starcraft, I want starcraft.
If I want to watch sexy women I could just google her name where there's a video of her and another young lady naked in the forest as the first google result.
I'm open to the fact that it's just a difference of culture. There's (to my knowledge) for instance no cheerleaders or anything like that here.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 18 2012 05:55 GMT
#197
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?
PhobosSC
Profile Joined May 2012
Canada23 Posts
July 18 2012 05:59 GMT
#198
The only issue i have with this is that lauren was hired to do an unnecessary job (for the most part). They didnt need her to advertise products since the casters/hosts did a fine job of that and they didnt need anyone to be a "hostess". The impression that i was left with is they hired her for no reason other than to be eye candy and to me this not only degrades women but also us fans.

If there were no females in the community perhaps i could find some leeway but the fact is there are women in e-sports that do a damn fine job whenever called upon, whether that be anna prosser or rachel quirico...both of whom i find to be not just 'attractive' but also passionate about e-sports and, more importantly, talented. A perfect example is the rather obvious example of Soe. Here is a female that is incredibly talented as an artist and as an interviewer (although im sure some will disagree with that point), and when called upon this week to try her hand at casting with day9 i think she did a fine job.

My point is there are numerous females in the community that are already doing a great job as well as (probably) hundreds of others that could hold their own with the guys if given the opportunity. I mean absolutely no disrespect to lauren because she did a fantastic job at what she was hired to do, my only issue is that if organizers continue to go the route of hiring models instead of giving opportunities to the females in our community that have the potential then we will never advance forward. So many people posted on this thread saying there arent females that can rival the boys as hosts/casters...but how will that ever change if theyre never given the opportunity?
My mom has been sleeping around with the european ladder - InControL
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
July 18 2012 06:06 GMT
#199
start with showing them some handsome gamers, Then get them to follow said gamers on their games, eventually they will start watching everyone if they show enough interest.
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
July 18 2012 06:11 GMT
#200
This is a useless discussion to try and have as long as the females we're talking about are playboy models being hired because you can google her tits. Scarlett is getting plenty of respect, transgender or not. Lauren is not. I wonder why? I'll give you a hint: Scarlett is good at Starcraft 2.
3 Hatch Before Cool
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 06:17:54
July 18 2012 06:15 GMT
#201
On July 18 2012 14:59 PhobosSC wrote:


My point is there are numerous females in the community that are already doing a great job as well as (probably) hundreds of others that could hold their own with the guys if given the opportunity. I mean absolutely no disrespect to lauren because she did a fantastic job at what she was hired to do, my only issue is that if organizers continue to go the route of hiring models instead of giving opportunities to the females in our community that have the potential then we will never advance forward. So many people posted on this thread saying there arent females that can rival the boys as hosts/casters...but how will that ever change if theyre never given the opportunity?


That`s the thing though, she was hired as eye-candy. She fills her role. They weren`t looking for anything else for that role. The females in our community would have an opportunity if they filled the 'eye-candy' role. People are arguing about girls who know SC deserve chances, but NASL wasn`t looking for that, they wanted to add some eye candy and that is exactly what they did.

How can people possibly complain when Soe was there to fill a different role. People would have a point if they made Lauren do Soe`s job but no she wasn`t there to do that. Does everyone hired have to be a jack of all trades.

I can understand if people don`t think eye candy is necessary but lets not act like she was taking someones job in the community.
Marou
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1371 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 06:18:37
July 18 2012 06:15 GMT
#202
I am not going to go on about why objectifying people is bad

This attitude towards women is world-spread


You got it right there. One could hope esports would be different and would not caution "having a good looking girl for the sake of having a good looking girl" but as some of the content provider try to go mainstream they fall for this shit two feets inside it.
Any tv show will have a good looking girl at some point, if not hosting or co-hosting the god damn thing. I don't think it's a big deal to have the same in esports, but i would rather see those positions filled with people that at least have at least shown some involvement in esports. Overall you can just see it as esport stepping up its game and getting ready for mass media broadcast because that's what it's truly about.

I think IPL got it right with Seltzer/Smix/Prosser - they are respected people in the community because of the work they put in, they are certainly not skilled at the game but that's not important, what's important is that they know the scene really well, they now the game and they are fully aware of what's going on. I just hope they choosed their outfit on their own and IPL didn't pushed the sexy cocktail dresses on Anna and Rachel. I don't think IPL did that, they were host so they were obviously trying to look their best, it just happens that they are good looking girls.

Next step after having good girl hosting is hire people to tell everybody how to dress properly, because holy shit they could really use some advice here. It will happen. It's a good thing.
twitter@RickyMarou
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
July 18 2012 06:18 GMT
#203
On July 18 2012 15:11 -Kaiser- wrote:
This is a useless discussion to try and have as long as the females we're talking about are playboy models being hired because you can google her tits. Scarlett is getting plenty of respect, transgender or not. Lauren is not. I wonder why? I'll give you a hint: Scarlett is good at Starcraft 2.


This times 1000. If tournaments insist on continuing to hire hosts based on sex appeal and not on some ability, there's going to be people that (IMO completely correctly) get pissed off about it.
VillageBC
Profile Joined January 2011
322 Posts
July 18 2012 06:20 GMT
#204
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


Pretty much this.
slytown
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)1411 Posts
July 18 2012 06:21 GMT
#205
How do we present males? With the same respect and standards we give females. Problem solved.
The best Flash meme ever: http://imgur.com/zquoK
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
July 18 2012 06:22 GMT
#206
On July 18 2012 15:15 Marou wrote:
Show nested quote +
I am not going to go on about why objectifying people is bad

Show nested quote +
This attitude towards women is world-spread


You got it right there. One could hope esports would be different and would not caution "having a good looking girl for the sake of having a good looking girl" but as some of the content provider try to go mainstream they fall for this shit two feets inside it.
Any tv show will have a good looking girl at some point, if not hosting or co-hosting the god damn thing. I don't think it's a big deal to have the same in esports, but i would rather see those positions filled with people that at least have at least shown some involvement in esports. Overall you can just see it as esport stepping up its game and getting ready for mass media broadcast because that's what it's truly about.

I think IPL got it right with Seltzer/Smix/Prosser - they are respected people in the community because of the work they put in, they are certainly not skilled at the game but that's not important, what's important is that they know the scene really well, they now the game and they are fully aware of what's going on. I just hope they choosed their outfit on their own and IPL didn't pushed the sexy cocktail dresses on Anna and Rachel. I don't think IPL did that, they were host so they were obviously trying to look their best, it just happens that they are good looking girls.

Next step after having good girl hosting is hire people to tell everybody how to dress properly, because holy shit they could really use some advice here. It will happen. It's a good thing.


I also agree with this. Anna and Rachel are good hosts, but they need to dress like they're not there completely for eye candy. They're respected for their work.

And in particular it's what separates them from all the horrible playboy women like Mia Rose and Tara whatever her name is.
procrastibation
Profile Joined July 2012
81 Posts
July 18 2012 06:24 GMT
#207
I'd rather have no girls than ugly girls. Most important thing is the girl can't be fat. I mean like omg srsly 45 mins a day on the treadmill is all it takes to turn a 5 into a 7... an 8 with makeup.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 06:32:41
July 18 2012 06:31 GMT
#208
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
aebriol
Profile Joined April 2010
Norway2066 Posts
July 18 2012 06:33 GMT
#209
People need to stop pretending that being hired as a host for a show, or showing up once or twice in some weird situation, suddenly means you are a significant part of "the community".

Pretty girls hired to promote games at e3 isn't part of the game developing community.
Pretty girls posing by cars at car shows aren't part of the car manufacturing community.

Or to make an example of the opposite sex:


Doesn't make those male models part of the dessert making business...

... and so on.

Eye candy is eye candy. Eye candy sells. Instead of complaining that they "don't fit as part of the community" ... why not stop trying to include every person that has a one time appearance as "part of the community" instead ... if they want to be, they'll show up multiple times and start learning and enjoying the game: if not it was a job, and it doesn't mean anything to them, and it shouldn't really to us either.

Well, that's my view at least. Maybe I am alone in it
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 06:38 GMT
#210
On July 18 2012 15:24 procrastibation wrote:
I'd rather have no girls than ugly girls. Most important thing is the girl can't be fat. I mean like omg srsly 45 mins a day on the
treadmill is all it takes to turn a 5 into a 7... an 8 with makeup.


What are you on about?
You rather want no girls than ugly girls? Do you think Anna Prosser is ugly and fat and needs to go 45 mins a day on the treadmill so she can host instead of the pornstar at NASL?
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 18 2012 06:38 GMT
#211
On July 18 2012 15:31 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.


What is so wrong about the naked body?
She posed for playboy and did a video photoshoot, how is that in any way related to porn, prostitution, and brothels?

While you're up there on your soap box preaching about irrelevant nonsense, you might want to look up the incidents of rape in countries where prostitution is legal vs illegal.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:15:07
July 18 2012 06:39 GMT
#212
On July 18 2012 15:15 mango_destroyer wrote:
That`s the thing though, she was hired as eye-candy. She fills her role. They weren`t looking for anything else for that role. The females in our community would have an opportunity if they filled the 'eye-candy' role. People are arguing about girls who know SC deserve chances, but NASL wasn`t looking for that, they wanted to add some eye candy and that is exactly what they did.

How can people possibly complain when Soe was there to fill a different role. People would have a point if they made Lauren do Soe`s job but no she wasn`t there to do that. Does everyone hired have to be a jack of all trades.

I can understand if people don`t think eye candy is necessary but lets not act like she was taking someones job in the community.

This is a good point, but perhaps a good question is: Is the Starcraft 2 audience the kind of audience that appreciates eye candy as much as other communities like football or MMA —or at least enough to be worth it?
Also, I'd say if the job requires any bit of communication I think other aspects than just appearance are very valid.

Another point is that in this new era of internet and it's offspring, internet communities and social media, all staff involved in games tend to do more than just their job when off-duty. They gain fans and run streams or maybe have meetings or shows or blogs or different things. In such situations it makes sense for the people to be Starcraft fans at the least, but secondarily not social dunces, and would be beneficial to be good at the game.
On July 18 2012 14:24 mlspmatt wrote:
You guys need to lighten up. So they hired an attractive female. They've been doing this all the time. Anna prosser and the other female who often do the interviews are very attractive girls. I'm sure there are other people who know more about starcraft that could conduct the interviews. it's part of the show. Starcraft is entertainment, and they are part of the entertainment.

Anna Prosser and seltzer and soe have been active in the community in general and have contacts in the community that get them their jobs — that's how people often get hired for jobs. Debatable, but I'd say Smix is not even of remarkable beauty either (not that she's ugly or anything) so it doesn't even come in to play for that situation.

Sure their beauty is an asset, but with their situations it's completely different because they spent lots of their life actually in the community. Being attractive and having public speaking experience/competence and having knowledge of the game is superior to just being attractive, even if it's being exceptionally attractive — at least to me (although for a job where you don't say a word that's more debatable).
On July 18 2012 14:51 mahO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.


AHAHAHAHA. Wait, are you serious? Well then... AHAHAHAHAH, but now i'm mocking your stupidity.
Have you ever seen a professional female musician? Yes.
Problem solved, My work here is done! Goodbye everybody!

(Idiot...)
I'm not necessarily siding with FullNatural, but what you said sounds far more ridiculous than what he said (namely due to the mocking and laughing). Playing music isn't a competitive sport, or even a competition in general, nor are their performances really measured in any significant way. It really has no relation to the field of sports or e-gaming.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
July 18 2012 06:47 GMT
#213
This really has nothing to do with StarCraft II at all. In any male-dominated activity they will seek to hire attractive women for "eye candy." Do cheerleaders actually do anything? Okay, that might be a bad example as that's debatable, but you get where I am going. Import Models at import shows, lingerie models, etc. People (women in this case) are rewarded for their visual appeal. This is human nature. If the target audience and market are men something like this really isn't ridiculous or unexpected.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 06:57:57
July 18 2012 06:55 GMT
#214
On July 18 2012 15:38 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:31 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.


What is so wrong about the naked body?
She posed for playboy and did a video photoshoot, how is that in any way related to porn, prostitution, and brothels?

While you're up there on your soap box preaching about irrelevant nonsense, you might want to look up the incidents of rape in countries where prostitution is legal vs illegal.

Its not the naked body that is bad or wrong, its the lack of responsibility which our "free sex" has caused. Didnt you ever notice the amount of unmarried couples or number of divorces? That just a part of the whole thing and focusing fully on "have sex - have fun" part of it fails to educate out young generations that a HUGE part of a successful relationship is responsibility ... especially when you have children. Those 20+ years when your kids are growing up your personal wishes have to be second rate. Being NOT SELFISH (a.k.a. "not thinking with your dick") is good for your society and your relationship. Having 12 year old boys think that "50% of a good marriage is good sex" is really terrible and thus I think we have gone wayyy too far in our pursuit of "free love" and naked bodies everywhere. In the end this prevalence of naked bodies devalues them for the time when you really get close to that girl you love, because you have seen it all before countless times. There is no "new territory to discover".

As I posted above the "box test" from DUNE is really the key, because it divides people of the homo sapiens species into two categories: humans and animals. As long as people keep thinking with their genitals and only about their own desires they will be animals. With such dangerous technology like we have today it becomes ever more important that we - and especially our leaders and powerful members of society - are NOT animals but rather humans instead who can say NO to a personal gain if it is a bad thing for society. So I would ask again: Could you say no to a naked, willing and unknown girl in you bedroom? Are you human or an animal?

In past centuries you HAD TO cooperate with each other or the whole community would suffer, but ever since the revolution of 1968 has selfishness (which I consider the greatest evil ever) been allowed and encouraged. That is really bad and the lack of working relationships is a consequence of it. Well the romans had a saying: divide et impera ... and this short sentence symbolises where the problem lies for each and everyone who is incapable of a successful relationship. If you are alone you are weaker and thus are easy to be exploited by almost anyone.

Thats why I have a fixed NO to anyone who does porn. Its just the tip of the iceberg of things going wrong, but at least its easy to define and most likely illegal for minors in all our countries.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
July 18 2012 06:56 GMT
#215
treat no one different, if woman men or shemale...who cares, in gaming only the gaming should matter, i cant understand people who go retard mode just cuz there is a female
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 06:57 GMT
#216
On July 18 2012 15:38 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:31 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.


What is so wrong about the naked body?
She posed for playboy and did a video photoshoot, how is that in any way related to porn, prostitution, and brothels?

While you're up there on your soap box preaching about irrelevant nonsense, you might want to look up the incidents of rape in countries where prostitution is legal vs illegal.


Yeah what's posing naked in a photo shoot and in a video to do with porn. It's like two completely different things!
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
pookadin
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia422 Posts
July 18 2012 06:58 GMT
#217
The attitude to women you see in the eSports community is the same as in any other 'sporting' community that is heavily male orientated - I would like to say every community that is mostly male orientated, full-stop, but I feel some here might take offence.

I'm female so some might think I am biased here but I do think the attitude needs to change, but the problem isnt exclusively with our community..its everywhere..and its driven by modern culture.
*JYP* #1 fan! ♥♥ twitter~ @Pookadin
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 07:03 GMT
#218
On July 18 2012 15:58 pookadin wrote:
The attitude to women you see in the eSports community is the same as in any other 'sporting' community that is heavily male orientated - I would like to say every community that is mostly male orientated, full-stop, but I feel some here might take offence.

I'm female so some might think I am biased here but I do think the attitude needs to change, but the problem isnt exclusively with our community..its everywhere..and its driven by modern culture.


I'm not actually sure what you're talking about now. Are you speaking for or against the porn ladies at events? It's kind of divided here.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Amyris
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom77 Posts
July 18 2012 07:09 GMT
#219
On July 18 2012 15:39 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 14:51 mahO wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand.

It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff.


ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait......

Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it.

This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.


AHAHAHAHA. Wait, are you serious? Well then... AHAHAHAHAH, but now i'm mocking your stupidity.
Have you ever seen a professional female musician? Yes.
Problem solved, My work here is done! Goodbye everybody!

(Idiot...)
I'm not necessarily siding with FullNatural, but what you said sounds far more ridiculous than what he said (namely due to the mocking and laughing). Playing music isn't a competitive sport, or even a competition in general, nor is performance really measured in any significant way.


I don't know much about music but I think auditions for a top orchestra are pretty competitive and performance is measured in a very significant way.
whatevername
Profile Joined June 2012
471 Posts
July 18 2012 07:11 GMT
#220
Ironically I think the obsession with women in the community - by the weirdly obsequious members that is - does nothing but undermine them. People really dont care all that much. When they're hot people follow them because they're hot, when they're competent doubly so. Then you have these weird threads railing against us for this or that and it just pisses people and off and makes them more likely to be hostile to the next chick that comes along.
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:24:56
July 18 2012 07:17 GMT
#221
On July 18 2012 15:55 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:38 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 15:31 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.


What is so wrong about the naked body?
She posed for playboy and did a video photoshoot, how is that in any way related to porn, prostitution, and brothels?

While you're up there on your soap box preaching about irrelevant nonsense, you might want to look up the incidents of rape in countries where prostitution is legal vs illegal.


As I posted above the "box test" from DUNE is really the key, because it divides people of the homo sapiens species into two categories: humans and animals. As long as people keep thinking with their genitals and only about their own desires they will be animals. With such dangerous technology like we have today it becomes ever more important that we - and especially our leaders and powerful members of society - are NOT animals but rather humans instead who can say NO to a personal gain if it is a bad thing for society. So I would ask again: Could you say no to a naked, willing and unknown girl in you bedroom? Are you human or an animal?


I actually have... (friends brought home a couple strippers--long story) but I really don't see the point of that question. Humans are animals. Self-aware animals, but animals nonetheless. Our sole purpose in life is to live and procreate, just like every other animal. We just do it in a more... dramatic... fashion.
On July 18 2012 15:57 Euronyme wrote:
Yeah what's posing naked in a photo shoot and in a video to do with porn. It's like two completely different things!


I guess if you want to get into semantics... it is technically "softcore porn"

Let me ask you this though, do you consider nudists and topless beach goers as live action porn actresses then?
EpidemicSC
Profile Joined January 2012
United States70 Posts
July 18 2012 07:17 GMT
#222
I think trying to underplay the huge impact sexuality has on our society is naive at best. Attractive people fill the seats. There was no shortage of Starcraft expertise at the event with day9 and Clutch taking most of the main hosting roles themselves. Was that hostess objectified abit? Sure. Are men and women objectified on a daily basis? Yes. We should accept it as part of our nature to identify gender and how that affects our behavior. Trying to make everything "equal" or indiscriminate of sex is a very idealistic and unrealistic approach to the world.

By the way, she was hot, and I'm sure having a few hot girls in the Starcraft community doesn't hurt the female sex and it sure as hell doesn't hurt the women themselves.
pookadin
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia422 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:27:35
July 18 2012 07:17 GMT
#223
On July 18 2012 16:03 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:58 pookadin wrote:
The attitude to women you see in the eSports community is the same as in any other 'sporting' community that is heavily male orientated - I would like to say every community that is mostly male orientated, full-stop, but I feel some here might take offence.

I'm female so some might think I am biased here but I do think the attitude needs to change, but the problem isnt exclusively with our community..its everywhere..and its driven by modern culture.


I'm not actually sure what you're talking about now. Are you speaking for or against the porn ladies at events? It's kind of divided here.


I'm saying that sex sells.

You will always see eye-candy on stage because thats what men want to see. Thats why models feature in advertisements etc etc. Sex just sells.

Its sad that majority of people cannot look past looks/weight and recoignise skill/knowledge - otherwise I feel that women community figures would feature more prominently at sc2 events. But the community is not that mature I feel to make that jump quite yet. (I am sorry to say so - reference Scarlett and EvE ridicule from the sc2 community).

I think the way women are portrayed is a deeper issue in society that has, inevitably, crept in to eSports. I regard that as normal though. There are definately 'male' jobs and 'female' jobs in the workforce still for example. Until these gender stereotypes are put aside, I don't think females will ever be portrayed as equals with males in eSports. eSports is still regarded as a 'male' community and females feature as 'fan-girls' or 'decorations to oogle' at events. Females are not taken seriously and draw a lot of ridicule when they do not excel - especially in a sexually demeaning way.

I think the attitudes in the community will not change any time soon. Gender stereotypes are too ingrained in our culture =/

TD;DR: Females are treated like they belong on the fringes of the community, not like they belong in the community
*JYP* #1 fan! ♥♥ twitter~ @Pookadin
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:30:13
July 18 2012 07:25 GMT
#224
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:04 Pazuzu wrote:
While i agree with what youre saying in theory, the problem is that there are very few women with comparable knowledge/passion/enthusiasm for starcraft with say, Day9, Bitterdam, Gretorp, Frodan and all the other male casters. its not a matter of inequality, whether on purpose or not, its just that currently there are more qualified male casters/hosts etc.

As shown in professional athletics, having attractive women is an effective advertising method, and while it would be a step forward in the diversity of the community to have a woman caster/host etc, i think people would rather have only male casters if it would mean a higher level of competency/analysis/energy. As a whole i think the community would welcome a woman caster or host with open arms as long as they are also competent, which is the core issue here.


I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks.

Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances?


Agreed. Probably not.

I think "eye candy" in general need not be a big deal. Most Hollywood movies put some eye candy in them, and depending on the type of movie, there is male eye candy for females as well.

But in an environment like e-sports where we hardly see any women in a significant role, it's probably different. Here, using hostesses often only means to enrich a men's world with some females for men's amusement, which makes things worse.

I agree the most important thing would be to give women a real chance as players and casters. Like the poster you replied to, I don't know any good female casters, but unlike him, I don't believe there aren't any. It would be worthwile for people who are responsible for tournaments to take a good look around for female candidates to hire before deciding they don't exist.

This isn't only a gender problem by the way. I often wonder why the hell television stations use the same couple of show hosts again and again over decades - it's so boring. Are there really only half a dozen talented people in a country of millions? Nonsense. It is because executives 1. are lazy and 2. tend to do what is proven to work, which makes sense from a business standpoint. So they and viewers alike need to make a decision to give newcomers a chance.

And the women themselves - maybe they can come forward more? People like Husky got e-famous by putting up their hard work on youtube, and while I can't be sure, I would believe that a female caster who is really good would have a chance to get her viewers too.

Edit: About NASL - I always found it kind of disgraceful to have two all-male casting duos and in between have Zoe explain (to children apparently) what a Zergling is. To get things started, why not give Zoe a casting gig - and maybe ask MrBitter to explain what a Zergling is. He probably would refuse, and rightfully so.
Fus
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1112 Posts
July 18 2012 07:33 GMT
#225
NASL will hire the person they belive can bring to most viewers to the event for the cheapest of costs, while maintaining a good reputation for future events. I honestly don't care if the host is male or female, what i care about is if the host is a recogniseable character such as day9, 2GD or similar. I think the desicion was right to bring in a female, cause i think people appreciate it.
NaNiwa | Innovation | Flash | DeMuslim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nekovivie
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:36:58
July 18 2012 07:35 GMT
#226
Gender should have no bearing on anything. In an e-Sports community, talent and ability should be the only factors that are considered.

Obviously, since a community like this is largely male orientated however, it does have 'bonuses' if the girl is particularly appealing visually, from a fanbase point of view, but teams shouldn't treat them like trophies. Players like Aphrodite or Eve, who rarely play, just seem like token females on their respective teams.

As for casters, I think its ok currently from what I've seen. Could do with some more though, but perhaps this is due to lack of females getting into the scene, rather than lack of females considered for the role.
If you are not supporting K-Pop you are hurting E-Sports.
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
July 18 2012 07:36 GMT
#227
On July 18 2012 16:33 Fus wrote:
NASL will hire the person they belive can bring to most viewers to the event for the cheapest of costs, while maintaining a good reputation for future events. I honestly don't care if the host is male or female, what i care about is if the host is a recogniseable character such as day9, 2GD or similar. I think the desicion was right to bring in a female, cause i think people appreciate it.


If you can only accept people you already know, how do you ever get to know someone new?
procrastibation
Profile Joined July 2012
81 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:41:49
July 18 2012 07:40 GMT
#228
what do you guys think of scarlett? does she count as female? maybe we could get all sc2 pro-gamers to get a sex change. Then we would have tons of females in starcraft

edit- we could also ask MMA's pro advice on how to treat women. with all that positive interaction with slayersjessica he would be an expert at getting women into sc2

User was banned for this post.
Nekovivie
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2599 Posts
July 18 2012 07:42 GMT
#229
On July 18 2012 16:40 procrastibation wrote:
what do you guys think of scarlett? does she count as female? maybe we could get all sc2 pro-gamers to get a sex change. Then we would have tons of females in starcraft

edit- we could also ask MMA's pro advice on how to treat women. with all that positive interaction with slayersjessica he would be an expert at getting women into sc2


can of worms
If you are not supporting K-Pop you are hurting E-Sports.
Broodwurst
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1586 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 08:00:58
July 18 2012 08:00 GMT
#230
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
What do you people think?


That all the people complaining about eye candy are stupid.
She wasn't a host, she was there to look good and give out prizes or something. If NASL wants to pay someone for that, fine. They also had Soe and she actually did stuff besides looking pretty.
Fanboys = (ウ╹◡╹)ウ /// I like smiley faces
Crushinator
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands2138 Posts
July 18 2012 08:04 GMT
#231
What an amazing topic title.

Just hire people that have merit. If you want someone to just stand there looking attractive, go for it.

It blows my mind that people think this is a genuine issue in the scene, if attractive women want to be a part of our little world, let them. God knows we could use some more sex-appeal.
anApple
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 08:15:19
July 18 2012 08:13 GMT
#232
Hmm I don't find it a big deal when a female wants to get into the SC2 community, however, since it's so male based, everyone seems to make a huge fuss.

Also, there are a lot of females who are doing an awesome job in the SC2 community at least in my opinion, such as Anna Prosser, Smix and Angella Kim (the GOM show).

Personally though, I disliked Soe since she asked a few questions which were very weird and overall, she seemed quite inexperienced. Perhaps she'll improve in the future though.
huehuehue
treekiller
Profile Joined July 2010
United States236 Posts
July 18 2012 08:14 GMT
#233
As Seinfeld said "You never see any handsome homeless"

Is it fair to blackball someone because of legal jobs they have had in the past?

Which is really the only controversy. If she was just hot, few would care.
All good things must come to an end. Therefore, SC2 will last forever
chambertin
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1704 Posts
July 18 2012 08:19 GMT
#234
On July 18 2012 16:40 procrastibation wrote:
what do you guys think of scarlett? does she count as female? maybe we could get all sc2 pro-gamers to get a sex change. Then we would have tons of females in starcraft

edit- we could also ask MMA's pro advice on how to treat women. with all that positive interaction with slayersjessica he would be an expert at getting women into sc2


if this isn't a ban...
"I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates?
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
July 18 2012 08:36 GMT
#235
You are complaining about the objectifying of women and how we are assigning them gender roles when we hire them as "eye candy." But you think that you're the one to assign them their role and that they should behave as you see fit or should be hired based on qualities you prefer they have? well fuck off

"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 08:41 GMT
#236
On July 18 2012 16:17 pookadin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 16:03 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 15:58 pookadin wrote:
The attitude to women you see in the eSports community is the same as in any other 'sporting' community that is heavily male orientated - I would like to say every community that is mostly male orientated, full-stop, but I feel some here might take offence.

I'm female so some might think I am biased here but I do think the attitude needs to change, but the problem isnt exclusively with our community..its everywhere..and its driven by modern culture.


I'm not actually sure what you're talking about now. Are you speaking for or against the porn ladies at events? It's kind of divided here.


I'm saying that sex sells.

You will always see eye-candy on stage because thats what men want to see. Thats why models feature in advertisements etc etc. Sex just sells.

Its sad that majority of people cannot look past looks/weight and recoignise skill/knowledge - otherwise I feel that women community figures would feature more prominently at sc2 events. But the community is not that mature I feel to make that jump quite yet. (I am sorry to say so - reference Scarlett and EvE ridicule from the sc2 community).

I think the way women are portrayed is a deeper issue in society that has, inevitably, crept in to eSports. I regard that as normal though. There are definately 'male' jobs and 'female' jobs in the workforce still for example. Until these gender stereotypes are put aside, I don't think females will ever be portrayed as equals with males in eSports. eSports is still regarded as a 'male' community and females feature as 'fan-girls' or 'decorations to oogle' at events. Females are not taken seriously and draw a lot of ridicule when they do not excel - especially in a sexually demeaning way.

I think the attitudes in the community will not change any time soon. Gender stereotypes are too ingrained in our culture =/

TD;DR: Females are treated like they belong on the fringes of the community, not like they belong in the community


See, eye candy is something that's incredibly rare where I'm from. I think e-sports is the first time I've ever heard about it really. Yeah there's commercials and stuff, but that's different.
I can see how it creates identity problems with objectified women along side with women who compete.

Scarlett has a pretty solid following from what I can see though, so I think (hope) she's atleast getting more praises than ridicule. She's actually really good at the game too.
I think what also really puts women in e-sports in this uncomfortable chair is that many of the outspoken e-sports women are people who use tags such as 'RaGiNg-GaMeR-gurl-XXX-b00bs'. That along with often presenting themselves first and foremost as girls accentuates the whole view on women in e-sports, I think.
E-sports is viewed as a male community because so few women are willing to put in the time to excel at it. If you say the word 'computer nerd' I dare say no one would think of a woman.



On July 18 2012 16:17 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:55 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 15:38 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 15:31 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:55 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
[quote]


The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke.

You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly.

Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned.


Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example?

I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p

She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty!

So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.


The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.


It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".

A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?

I would object much more to her having made a porn video or two than being female and having good looks. Personally I find it a really bad trend to make porn and prostitution acceptable in our societies and we even had one of the worse privately owned TV channels show a documentary about a pimp who owns one or more brothels. Having regular "documentaries" on the subject of prostitution is a set thing for all channels of that TV company here in germany and everything it does is making these things acceptable and "normal" in the society. The fun ends when I am overhearind 10-11 year old boys talking about sites where they can find naked females ... on their smartphones. Thus she should have been disqualified on the basis of having made porn vids and not her looks or knowledge of the game.


What is so wrong about the naked body?
She posed for playboy and did a video photoshoot, how is that in any way related to porn, prostitution, and brothels?

While you're up there on your soap box preaching about irrelevant nonsense, you might want to look up the incidents of rape in countries where prostitution is legal vs illegal.


As I posted above the "box test" from DUNE is really the key, because it divides people of the homo sapiens species into two categories: humans and animals. As long as people keep thinking with their genitals and only about their own desires they will be animals. With such dangerous technology like we have today it becomes ever more important that we - and especially our leaders and powerful members of society - are NOT animals but rather humans instead who can say NO to a personal gain if it is a bad thing for society. So I would ask again: Could you say no to a naked, willing and unknown girl in you bedroom? Are you human or an animal?


I actually have... (friends brought home a couple strippers--long story) but I really don't see the point of that question. Humans are animals. Self-aware animals, but animals nonetheless. Our sole purpose in life is to live and procreate, just like every other animal. We just do it in a more... dramatic... fashion.
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 15:57 Euronyme wrote:
Yeah what's posing naked in a photo shoot and in a video to do with porn. It's like two completely different things!


I guess if you want to get into semantics... it is technically "softcore porn"

Let me ask you this though, do you consider nudists and topless beach goers as live action porn actresses then?


No, not unless they're being photographed / taped and published / put up on the internet. What kind of weird question is that anyway? Being naked =/= porn. Being naked while having a film crew around you filming you = porn. Unless it's for some kind of art or medical thing, but that's a different story and not really relevant.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
CDR
Profile Joined April 2011
Poland84 Posts
July 18 2012 08:42 GMT
#237
Yes, TL surely needs some more political correctness, as well as SC2 scene...
FFS, focus on the game instead of some imaginary issues.
I don't get how a pretty girl hosting an event is a bad thing, I also don't know why should anyone get special treatment because they don't have a penis.
20Nation
Profile Joined February 2005
United States258 Posts
July 18 2012 08:42 GMT
#238
I don't think too hard into this. But i was happy to have my two favorite things in the same place. Starcraft and hot women.
Fus
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1112 Posts
July 18 2012 08:43 GMT
#239
On July 18 2012 16:36 FrogOfWar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 16:33 Fus wrote:
NASL will hire the person they belive can bring to most viewers to the event for the cheapest of costs, while maintaining a good reputation for future events. I honestly don't care if the host is male or female, what i care about is if the host is a recogniseable character such as day9, 2GD or similar. I think the desicion was right to bring in a female, cause i think people appreciate it.


If you can only accept people you already know, how do you ever get to know someone new?


I'm antisocial so i don't =)
NaNiwa | Innovation | Flash | DeMuslim ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
July 18 2012 08:44 GMT
#240
Sex sells - particularly to a male-dominated community. Denying it is futile, naive and turning a blind eye to the reality of business. What do you think the purpose of race queens are?
Shinobi1982
Profile Joined January 2011
1605 Posts
July 18 2012 08:51 GMT
#241
Here's what I think. People get dealt shitty cards in live. Just because someone like Lauren/Lindsey got aces it's no reason to hate on someone like them. A "professional hot chick" will always get more people watching the event then almost any other option. Just deal with it!
Train like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 08:57 GMT
#242
On July 18 2012 17:51 Shinobi1982 wrote:
Here's what I think. People get dealt shitty cards in live. Just because someone like Lauren/Lindsey got aces it's no reason to hate on someone like them. A "professional hot chick" will always get more people watching the event then almost any other option. Just deal with it!


Wouldn't the people being envious of everyone having a better life than them be more pissed at virtually every progamer though? Especially those in the EG house.. That place looks sweet.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 09:19:51
July 18 2012 08:57 GMT
#243
It shouldnt matter if its a man or a woman, aslong as its the right person for the job. Gaming is primarily a male-sport, but there are some good exceptions.

However I dont think women should be pushed forward in gamingevents just for the sake of being a woman. If you look at Christina Vee's appearance during a LoL-event, it was horrible and awkward... Sure she did voiceaction in the game, but shes just not the person to have on stage presenting.

There are other 'male-sports' that have this worked out better. Gaming can take a lesson from the pokerworld for example. Its about 98% male players, some female. However most of the newsreporters/interviewers are female and they have studied players and the game. It makes for great and fun interviews, while over time their knowledge of the game improved and alot of them get really far during tournaments these days. Its fun, not awkward at all.

added to this: people that say its not fair that women in gaming get more attention are ignoring the fact that minorities always get more attention if the difference is that big, without doing anything for it. You try going to china as a 2,05m tall guy without drawing attention to yourself.
KCCO!
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
July 18 2012 09:08 GMT
#244
I didnt really watch NASL because im in Europe and had to work on Monday. I really dont understand the issue, as I only saw her asking a few questions during interviews.

On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
I have been playing Starcraft for quite some time now and as every other player have I gotten to know the scene. I have seen a positive, supporting community, that is very male-dominated. It is natural that the community is dominated by the target audience of the game companies. From this you could come to the conclusion that hiring a good looking woman to be a host at an event is not a bad idea, since the majority of the audience might appreciate it.

I am not going to go on about why objectifying people is bad etc, even though there is a lot to say about that. Instead I am going to talk about the Starcraft II scene and how it is affected by this, seemingly harmless, choice of an attractive hostess.


Hummm. Yeah well say what you want, but I ve also seen a community who goes on a fucking witchhunt every time they can, who bashes on casters, players, organizers when ever they can. And now starts talking about gender issues that are present in every major sport... yeah, positive and supporting

On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


Im not really going to say anything about this point, because I havent watched the whole show. If she has no knowledge in sc2 and then starts to try to go in depth with one of the players, I understand your point (which is true whether male or female). But if shes just there to interview, then hey, whats the problem?

On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless. Having a playboy model as hostess gives the image that a woman in e-sports is a decoration for the male-dominated audience to enjoy. She is not a part of the event, even less so because of the fact that she was (probably) headhunted and has nothing to do with the community whatsoever.


Oh come on, grow up a bit. This is present in every sport. In every fuckin TV show. In every event! You d be ranting if it was an ugly girl because it would "send a message to people that girls in esports are ugly nerds". This is just mainstream organisation, if you ever work in trade shows or event management/organisation, you d understand how the game works. Your really reflecting too much on this issue. Nobody is going to see e sports as a bunch of pervs because of this.

So good looking girls get the jobs in show hosting. Its just the way shit works in events.

On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
Lastly, Lauren Elise should not be blamed for this, even though she probably will be by some people. Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts. The NASL should understand that, and the people working with big events should take the responsibility that comes with popularity. It is only until the majority of the people in e-sports want equality as we can have it that way. Competent hosts of big events, the male ones as well as the female ones, is just a start, but something that I think is important to build an equal community. What do you people think?


I think you are forgetting what kind of Host she was. She was Interview/filler. Not fuckin caster. Nobody is going to take girls less seriously because they hired a good looking girl for that role. Its always is like that.
Of course, if she had to cast and did know shit about the game then yeah, youd have a point. But this isnt the case. A hostess like a host doesnt need such great knowledge of the game. They need to know how to run a show.


The problem here is that this what you think. You are the one giving so much attention to looks to start with. The problem
with this community is that its not only male-dominated, but geek-dominated. A good looking girl at a show and people start "reflecting about it". Give me a break.



On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
This is not criticism of her in any way, but only my own reflections on how much of an issue gender is. I hope I put this in the right forum. If not so, please redirect me..


Yeah well you spent your whole post bitching about her at NASL, sooooo.....
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 18 2012 09:10 GMT
#245
On July 18 2012 17:41 Euronyme wrote:
No, not unless they're being photographed / taped and published / put up on the internet. What kind of weird question is that anyway? Being naked =/= porn. Being naked while having a film crew around you filming you = porn. Unless it's for some kind of art or medical thing, but that's a different story and not really relevant.


Your inability to interpret my meaning further proves your cluelessness and tells me I should just end this discussion now.

I'll leave this here for you though.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Enjoy.
Thurken
Profile Joined September 2011
961 Posts
July 18 2012 09:10 GMT
#246
In this case I didn't see any problem since Lauren was only here for hosting and had Clutch as a partner. Despite her relatively poor knowledge of the game she did fine and better than many others to me. If she doesn't host a SC2 event anymore it won't be a good investment but otherwise I don't think there is a problem there. And it looks like she wants to attend other events.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 09:14 GMT
#247
On July 18 2012 18:10 Dosey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 17:41 Euronyme wrote:
No, not unless they're being photographed / taped and published / put up on the internet. What kind of weird question is that anyway? Being naked =/= porn. Being naked while having a film crew around you filming you = porn. Unless it's for some kind of art or medical thing, but that's a different story and not really relevant.


Your inability to interpret my meaning further proves your cluelessness and tells me I should just end this discussion now.

I'll leave this here for you though.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Enjoy.


It's hard to interpret your meaning, when all I have is your post.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Opera
Profile Joined March 2011
France469 Posts
July 18 2012 09:19 GMT
#248
Lots of people here state that sex sells. While that's true for a lot of industries, I'd love to think that it's not the case in eSports, because we, as gamers, value knowledge and skill more than physical attractiveness.

Lauren Elise wasn't as ridiculous as the Razer babes in I-don't-recall-which-IEM tournament who were just standing on the stage, grabbing the player's arm while Carmac was hyping the match for the crowd. On the other hand, Soe (iirc) did a good job at post match interviewing and her duo with Day9 worked great.
It ain't over till it's over
MadProbe
Profile Joined February 2012
United States269 Posts
July 18 2012 09:21 GMT
#249
On July 18 2012 09:42 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



User was warned for this post



ROFL! idra <3

On topic : WTF someone is actually complaining about having a playboy model on stream? WHY in the fuck would you....

Then it hit me. OP is a woman. Vildhjerta is a swedish girl name. Google it. She made an account just to post this.

...It all makes sense now.
ihasaKAROT
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4730 Posts
July 18 2012 09:22 GMT
#250
On July 18 2012 18:19 Opera wrote:
Lots of people here state that sex sells. While that's true for a lot of industries, I'd love to think that it's not the case in eSports, because we, as gamers, value knowledge and skill more than physical attractiveness.


I dont know about you but after HSC5 I bought 14 of those chairs
KCCO!
ArtemisKnives
Profile Joined March 2010
United States210 Posts
July 18 2012 09:30 GMT
#251
Worrying about beautiful girls invading the starcraft scene just screams insecure nerds afraid of girls... I feel like posts like these on the forums are shameful and I worry for the sanity of the individual concocting posts like these thinking there is legitimacy to them.

Yea... she's been in playboy... that's awesome. Nothing screams mass insecurity like worrying about gorgeous girls attracting more money to the sport...
Masters/GM S1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 Macro Toss // twitch.tv/artemisknives [1080p stream]
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
July 18 2012 09:31 GMT
#252
On July 18 2012 17:44 Exia0276 wrote:
Sex sells - particularly to a male-dominated community. Denying it is futile, naive and turning a blind eye to the reality of business. What do you think the purpose of race queens are?

I'll just repeat a question I asked earlier:
Is the Starcraft audience the same as the football and MMA audience? Will people want or appreciate eye candy as much or enough for it to work well? I don't think that can just be assumed. While it is likely, we should realize that we're dealing in a global thing —Chinese, and Swedes may have different opinions or be raised in different ways than "Americans" (USA), Russians, or Brazilians. The demographics are also different too; while it's still male, it's younger male, and perhaps less women-obsessed males (just throwing things out there, not saying it's true)
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
July 18 2012 09:34 GMT
#253
I don't see the problem, while I was watching the stream I never really felt like Lauren was a host.
Only thing I saw her do was ask questions to the audience and give away free stuff.
More like a mascotte.
ArtemisKnives
Profile Joined March 2010
United States210 Posts
July 18 2012 09:35 GMT
#254
On July 18 2012 18:31 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 17:44 Exia0276 wrote:
Sex sells - particularly to a male-dominated community. Denying it is futile, naive and turning a blind eye to the reality of business. What do you think the purpose of race queens are?

I'll just repeat a question I asked earlier:
Is the Starcraft audience the same as the football and MMA audience? Will people want or appreciate eye candy as much or enough for it to work well? I don't think that can just be assumed. While it is likely, we should realize that we're dealing in a global thing —Chinese, and Swedes may have different opinions or be raised in different ways than "Americans" (USA), Russians, or Brazilians. The demographics are also different too; while it's still male, it's younger male, and perhaps less women-obsessed males (just throwing things out there, not saying it's true)



Is the starcraft audience A-sexual? I personally don't want to be labeled as an a-sexual starcraft gamer...
Masters/GM S1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 Macro Toss // twitch.tv/artemisknives [1080p stream]
finlurrrr
Profile Joined April 2012
United States37 Posts
July 18 2012 09:38 GMT
#255
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:
Dear people of TeamLiquid. What I am writing is about how women are represented in the SCII community. I got to thinking of it because of the NASLs recent choice of hosts, in this case Lauren Elise. This is not criticism of her in any way, but only my own reflections on how much of an issue gender is. I hope I put this in the right forum. If not so, please redirect me..

I have been playing Starcraft for quite some time now and as every other player have I gotten to know the scene. I have seen a positive, supporting community, that is very male-dominated. It is natural that the community is dominated by the target audience of the game companies. From this you could come to the conclusion that hiring a good looking woman to be a host at an event is not a bad idea, since the majority of the audience might appreciate it.

I am not going to go on about why objectifying people is bad etc, even though there is a lot to say about that. Instead I am going to talk about the Starcraft II scene and how it is affected by this, seemingly harmless, choice of an attractive hostess.

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.

Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless. Having a playboy model as hostess gives the image that a woman in e-sports is a decoration for the male-dominated audience to enjoy. She is not a part of the event, even less so because of the fact that she was (probably) headhunted and has nothing to do with the community whatsoever.

Lastly, Lauren Elise should not be blamed for this, even though she probably will be by some people. Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts. The NASL should understand that, and the people working with big events should take the responsibility that comes with popularity. It is only until the majority of the people in e-sports want equality as we can have it that way. Competent hosts of big events, the male ones as well as the female ones, is just a start, but something that I think is important to build an equal community. What do you people think?


Why does the NASL decision have to be one from the vantage point of social justice? Why is it a humanities/gender-studies issue rather than a cost/benefit decision made by those running the tournament? Companies run by "socially conscious" & hyper-sensitive idealists take their eyes off the mark. Companies are in business to provide value for their consumers, build value for their owners/shareholders, and follow the law. You probably have never ran a business before but I work for this carpenter who never hires female employees. He frankly doesn't care what you look like--he only cares if you're likely to be a good carpenting apprentice. He is a very successful businessman and customers love him & recommend him to friends & he never has to spend any $ on advertising.

Sure you can take the existence of a business such as the NASL for granted, and start taking your eyes off the mark. But eventually you will start diminishing value for your stakeholders & begin incessantly trying to be politically correct about everything. Businesses and job creators should not have to give a damn about what socially-conscious, hyper-sensitive citizens think is culturally, politically acceptable at some point in time.
“He who knows how will always work for he who knows why.”
SnipedSoul
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2158 Posts
July 18 2012 09:42 GMT
#256
Putting a good looking woman on stage is a tried and true method to increase male viewership. Gaming community is comprised mainly of young men so putting a nice woman on stage is an easy way to get more viewers. As long as the woman is fine with it, I don't see how it's bad in any way.
OneBaseKing
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Afghanistan412 Posts
July 18 2012 09:44 GMT
#257
lol did u really have to put up a post on TL about this? you're a minority but who gives a shit. ignore the trolls, and you'll be good.
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
July 18 2012 09:52 GMT
#258
On July 18 2012 18:31 Xapti wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 17:44 Exia0276 wrote:
Sex sells - particularly to a male-dominated community. Denying it is futile, naive and turning a blind eye to the reality of business. What do you think the purpose of race queens are?

I'll just repeat a question I asked earlier:
Is the Starcraft audience the same as the football and MMA audience? Will people want or appreciate eye candy as much or enough for it to work well? I don't think that can just be assumed. While it is likely, we should realize that we're dealing in a global thing —Chinese, and Swedes may have different opinions or be raised in different ways than "Americans" (USA), Russians, or Brazilians. The demographics are also different too; while it's still male, it's younger male, and perhaps less women-obsessed males (just throwing things out there, not saying it's true)


Your question needs to go to the event organisers, but I'm pretty sure the answer is that her presence had an overall positive effect on viewership.

I would not want to see her take the place of a analytical caster, but as some kind person mentioned in an earlier post, her job is not a caster but as a host. As long as she has the ability to help viewer retention, she's doing her job.
Cuce
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey1127 Posts
July 18 2012 10:25 GMT
#259
frankly we all preffer charicmatic passianate male host to a atractive hostess
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
Kuni
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Austria765 Posts
July 18 2012 10:32 GMT
#260
On July 18 2012 18:21 MadProbe wrote:
On topic : WTF someone is actually complaining about having a playboy model on stream? WHY in the fuck would you....

Then it hit me. OP is a woman. Vildhjerta is a swedish girl name. Google it. She made an account just to post this.

...It all makes sense now.



After reading through half of the OP, the same thing crossed my mind. Didn't do research though, but oh well. It really makes sense ... bummer.


Let's face it. The things Kennegit mentioned in his little video about not overrepresenting sexy flesh over players and other more important parts of the show are pretty valid. Taking this into account, That girl at NASL was never in the spotlight, not once. Yes, she did a little trivia with prizes, asked a few questions and in the end she got smashed in the face by Stephano and that video is now available on YouTube. NASL never put her in front of everything to show titties and ass.
I was watching NASL and she was nice asset to the show. Maybe they could have done more with her, maybe not.
Eye candy? Of fucking course. Bad thing? Hell no. IPL was bad where Anna and her red dress was shining all the way to Saturn, making the players seem unimportant.

One part of the community values skill, the other is drawn to chicks no matter how they play. That's why there is a lot of hate and in the end all the morons who stalk the girls in gaming no matter how good they are at fault here. If you've ever been in a chat from a girl streamer ... it's disgusting. And even more so because other games who put in a lot of effort struggle to get the same numbers, even though their content is of MUCH more quality. And that's the reason for negative comments when a girl starts streaming and posts her stream with the first words in the title being "GIRL GAMER, HIHI ^^^^^^^". Feels like they're whoring themselves. The punter is to blame though.


But all that has nothing to do with hosts. There is no problem with hosts being eye candy. And especially with Lauren at NASL it was all fine. She didn't go up to Drewbie thinking he was a spectator, making a fool of herself. She didn't do anything negative.
bonus vir semper tiro
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 11:13 GMT
#261
On July 18 2012 18:21 MadProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:42 IdrA wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



User was warned for this post



ROFL! idra <3

On topic : WTF someone is actually complaining about having a playboy model on stream? WHY in the fuck would you....

Then it hit me. OP is a woman. Vildhjerta is a swedish girl name. Google it. She made an account just to post this.

...It all makes sense now.


Uh... Just for your information, Vildhjerta is not a Swedish girl's name. It means 'Wild Heart'. Might be a girl, but what do I know. It's not a name though.
http://www.behindthename.com/names/usage/swedish
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
zidaneshead
Profile Joined November 2010
245 Posts
July 18 2012 11:19 GMT
#262
On July 18 2012 19:32 Kuni wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 18:21 MadProbe wrote:
On topic : WTF someone is actually complaining about having a playboy model on stream? WHY in the fuck would you....

Then it hit me. OP is a woman. Vildhjerta is a swedish girl name. Google it. She made an account just to post this.

...It all makes sense now.


Let's face it. The things Kennegit mentioned in his little video about not overrepresenting sexy flesh over players and other more important parts of the show are pretty valid.


Is that what he said? I find that ironic considering many casters arguably cast a shadow over the players these days. Seems to be that the players need to be propped up in most cases cause of their perceived lack of personality, casters is one way, if women needs to be the other way then so be it, but that's jmho.
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
July 18 2012 11:35 GMT
#263
I demand a home video of Tasteless as compensation... If you know what I mean. But in all seriousness, hosts and casters are NOT the same thing, but I still think that they should have hired a host with a shred of knowledge about SC2.
kill or be killed.
catabowl
Profile Joined November 2009
United States815 Posts
July 18 2012 11:41 GMT
#264
Answer to OP question:

When you go to a restaurant, who is there to greet you? Most likely a very attractive female or male. Same concept for SC2 if you ask me.
Jung! Myung! Hoooooooooooooooooon! #TeamPolt
oZe
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden492 Posts
July 18 2012 11:47 GMT
#265
Are you saying they didn't pick tasteless as gsl host for his looks? Are you saying day9 & husky aren't huge icons in the gay community? They're all dumber than they look but sexy as hell according to my girlfriend. My sister has confessed to having an artosis shrine of sexual admiration. I mean alot of these casters can make the biggest hetero guy a little curious ^^

Remember that time you were masturbating and DJ Wheat popped into your head? You tried to shrug it off but we both know there is something there ;-)

The worst kinds of organized crime are religion & government.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 11:51 GMT
#266
On July 18 2012 20:47 oZe wrote:
Are you saying they didn't pick tasteless as gsl host for his looks? Are you saying day9 & husky aren't huge icons in the gay community? They're all dumber than they look but sexy as hell according to my girlfriend. My sister has confessed to having an artosis shrine of sexual admiration. I mean alot of these casters can make the biggest hetero guy a little curious ^^

Remember that time you were masturbating and DJ Wheat popped into your head? You tried to shrug it off but we both know there is something there ;-)



Haha oh man I lost you at "artosis shrine of sexual admiration" hahahhahahaha oh my..
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
July 18 2012 11:59 GMT
#267
Personally i felt offended by both host at NASL ( at least i seemed to me they were both hosts ) thinking the home world of the zergs is Char... :/
A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
The_Unseen
Profile Joined March 2011
France1923 Posts
July 18 2012 12:02 GMT
#268
On July 18 2012 20:47 oZe wrote:
Are you saying they didn't pick tasteless as gsl host for his looks? Are you saying day9 & husky aren't huge icons in the gay community? They're all dumber than they look but sexy as hell according to my girlfriend. My sister has confessed to having an artosis shrine of sexual admiration. I mean alot of these casters can make the biggest hetero guy a little curious ^^

Remember that time you were masturbating and DJ Wheat popped into your head? You tried to shrug it off but we both know there is something there ;-)



Best. Post. Ever.
I got five reasons for you to shut up
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
July 18 2012 12:08 GMT
#269
On July 18 2012 09:42 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



User was warned for this post



User was temp banned for this post.
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
CrtBalorda
Profile Joined December 2011
Slovenia704 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:44:19
July 18 2012 12:16 GMT
#270
The same dam way as guys!
4th August 2012...Never forget.....
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 12:16 GMT
#271
On July 18 2012 09:48 thurst0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:19 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

I fail to see the link between having physically attractive hosts and making it harder for females in E-Sports.
If a girl wants to succeed as a player, then gender is definitely not a disadvantage, in fact i would say it is a huge advantage to be female because you will get a lot more attention, and attention attracts sponsors which attracts opportunities to improve which otherwise might not be there. If a female player feels hard done by then they should just buckle down and practice because i can't think of a single case in which a female player has been passed over for sponsorship/attention in favour of a male player of equal skill.

As casters, the skills required to be a caster are the ability to be well spoken, that is have a suitably large active vocabulary and know how to use it, as well as having an accent which isn't totally out there, and also knowing enough about the game to talk about it on a decent level. There is always going to be a certain amount of "prejudice" people have when listening to female vs male commentators just because it's a female, and the majority of the sc2 audience (i believe) are male, and that isn't going to change for the forseeable future.

I'm just surprised you choose to discuss the fact that hosts sometimes are females who don't understand the game. Because there are just as many male hosts who don't understand the game as well.

Actually in my opinion, if you want to complain about something damaging the reputation of females who game seriously i would talk about all the girls who use the fact they are a girl as their main selling point, rather then their playing skill.

A few examples (nothing against these people personally or anything like that, they are just examples of a trend i've seen recently)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=346852
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=339222

Are two examples, both are girls trying to sell themselves as girls. Surely this is much more damaging to the professionalism, you seem to want, where there are no differences between how males and females are perceived. There is a certain double standard to saying "guys treat girl gamers differently" when the vocal 5% of female gamers, (who are the ones people hear, and therefore believe make up the majority of the female gaming scene) are advertising their stream as "starcraft with boobs" or something like that. This kind of advertising is just putting more focus on dividing male and female gamers rather then bringing them together.

I believe that the best way for female gamers to be treated equally is just to not put any focus on the fact that they are girls,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342346
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290288

These two streamers just acknowledge that they are girls and then move on, because IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. If girls want attention they should just get better, such as scarlett has done, and get noticed for results. I think it's the people who use the fact that they are female to get attention within the community rather then the professional mc's or interviewers doing their jobs who are undermining the equality.

Just my opinion ^.^


I think that gender might be a big disadvantage.Maybe not in marketing, but during the entire gamer-career. Before this girl wanted to "succeed as a player", as you put it, she has probably been with the community for a while. Some people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind; can't you imagine any girl feeling that she is being worked against by the general view of women in the community?

I think what you're taking up is a big issue as well, but I can't write about all issues, can I? There's too much to say about it. You, on the other hand, who seem to be more interested in just this specific thing than in what I wrote about, should start a thread on that! I would read it


Wow, please stop. You don't know what these girls are thinking, stop pretending like you do.

Here's an anecdote:
I used to be good friends with a girl gamer. From the first moment I learned she was a gamer, all I could do was swoon over her. She got nothing but my attention and encouragement. There was never a moment when I got a sense from her that she was discouraged in anyway by anyone. Again this is just an anecdote. Maybe your community and culture is one that tries to knock down women constantly, and there are certainly people who would wish to do that in the U.S. But you make it seem like all of e-sports is against the idea of women, and i think that just about everyone is WIDE OPEN to the idea as long as the women has merits for why they are there. Scarletts merits are self aparrent, for Ms. Elise our friend killerdog explains her merits of being a host below...

Please refresh my memory, what is the general view of women in the community. You're basically making it here by making this thread.

My view of women in the community: there aren't enough. That's all, nothing more nothing less.

Like I said, this guy totally ripped your points apart in his first paragraph.
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 09:06 killerdog wrote:
A Hosts job is to keep the crowds attention during breaks, and introduce things in a not totally awkward fashion, mlg accomplishes this by having clutch, who iirc is trained in acting or broadcasting or something, and other tournaments accomplish this by having humorous hosts, (incontrol, 2gd) or physically attractive hosts or anything else that keeps people at their monitors during those moments where nothing is going on.

You clearly don't understand the purpose of a host.


No need to get unfriendly, but I guess that it is just your incapability to keep being nice to someone you don't agree with. And I appreciate your "You don't know what these girls are thinking, stop pretending like you do.". Do you know what these girls are thinking better than I do? I only know what me myself is thinking, and being one of the gamer girls in the community I don't mean that I represent all of them, but I do represent myself as a part of them.

Also, I write in my message that "SOME people's attitude might have gotten her to change her mind". Not the entire community's attitude.

Well I think that the general view of women in the community (this is just my opinion as I've stated all along) is that people are surprised to see them. You seem to be one of the people thinking it is so positive a thing that more girls get into e-sports, which is nice. I share that opinion. I have met a lot of people who say the same thing and are so enthusiastic and are like "wow how did you get into this?!?!?! why do you play?!?!? shit this is so cool". It might seem nice, but it takes the attention away of me just being a regular gamer and instead, all my conversations with new people(mostly men) who play starcraft is about the same thing; why I play it etc. The focus is always on me being a girl and playing, not me playing. So what I mean is of course not that ppl want to "knock down women constantly" as you put it, but that people make difference in how they talk to you etc because you're a girl. These sorts of things put me down, even though they're probably difficult to avoid, females being a minority and stuff.
Shinobi1982
Profile Joined January 2011
1605 Posts
July 18 2012 12:20 GMT
#272
From: [SFW] Random pics that make you laugh - Page 857
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


User was warned for this post
Train like an animal, eat like a horse, sleep like a baby, grow like a weed.
Goibon
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand8185 Posts
July 18 2012 12:30 GMT
#273
I just want more girls like Soe in my ESPORTZ. Smart, witty, cute as hell and above all invested in the industry.
Leenock =^_^= Ryung =^_^= Parting =^_^= herO =^_^= Guilty
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 12:36:52
July 18 2012 12:35 GMT
#274
I've only skimmed the thread, but have yet to see this adressed. What are the community's female alternatives to Lauren Elise? Are there any at all?. Edit: Ok, Soe. Any others?

This is not to say Lauren didn't do a great job, of course (props to her!).
Bora Pain minha porra!
Felnarion
Profile Joined December 2011
442 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 12:42:07
July 18 2012 12:39 GMT
#275
Sigh.

Isn't talking about "How to present women" right in front of them equally demeaning?

Just let the women take the jobs they want, and let the tournament organizers hire the women they want, and be done with it. Come on guys.

If we had a black guy on the stage doing stupid shit, would we be discussing "How to present black people"?

If it were a white guy doing the announcer voice who didn't care about SC2, would we be even discussing this? Where's the thread about the guy from the UK WCS? He wasn't particularly knowledgable about the game.

I mean, hell, she knew Raynor's middle name. Beat me.
Viktorin
Profile Joined June 2012
Switzerland59 Posts
July 18 2012 12:41 GMT
#276
On July 18 2012 11:43 mostevil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with the crowd. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.

She's grade A at dodging creepy advances from popular community figures too.
Personally, I don't like watching ugly people generally, male or female. But by the same measure I'm not entirely comfortable with someone being there who's only purpose is to look pretty, especially if its in a host/interviewer role.
However I think alot of the community just like to see "guys like themselves", which might in part explain the general misogyny of the community and popularity of angry or geeky awkward type characters whom I personally find few qualities in.


Please elaborate. Who made creepy advances?
zidaneshead
Profile Joined November 2010
245 Posts
July 18 2012 12:44 GMT
#277
Does anyone honestly think Lauren Elise cares if people see her as "eye-candy"? The girl did several Playboy shoots, I think she knows at this point she got hired cause she's hot, and it seems to me she's perfectly fine with it.

Not to mention I'm really impressed with the way people have embraced Scarlett's ascent despite the fact that she's a woman and a transgender woman at that, yet we really don't seem to give a shit cause frankly she can play the game as well as anyone.

If the OP was trying to imply that e-sports is becoming mysogynistic then the OP has failed miserably. In fact I've never seen a bigger collection of white knights in my life (LOL )
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 12:49 GMT
#278
On July 18 2012 11:53 ownyah wrote:
I like how he says `` this is a male-dominated`` community and therefore it is accepted that only hot girls are allowed.

What a fucking load of bullshit, women are equally or even more so superficial.



How who says? "He" as in me?

What I said was not that only hot girls were allowed. Luckily the majority of the people who read my post seemed to get that
imallinson
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3482 Posts
July 18 2012 13:01 GMT
#279
On July 18 2012 21:35 Sbrubbles wrote:
I've only skimmed the thread, but have yet to see this adressed. What are the community's female alternatives to Lauren Elise? Are there any at all?. Edit: Ok, Soe. Any others?

This is not to say Lauren didn't do a great job, of course (props to her!).


There are quite a few, Smix, Megumi, Anna Prosser to name a few. At IPL4 there were a lot of female hosts interviewers etc. who were there because they were part of the community and not purely for eye candy.
Liquipedia
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 13:09 GMT
#280
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.
rave[wcr]
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1166 Posts
July 18 2012 13:15 GMT
#281
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:23:36
July 18 2012 13:22 GMT
#282
A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts.


But she didn't play the same role as the likes of Day[9], Bitter, and iNcontrol. She was mostly used as an usher and friendly face, and this doesn't require any game knowledge. Similarly, the guy who was announcing the players did not need game knowledge to do his job. Appearance was important for both of these roles, and if NASL had employed a man instead of Lauren Elise, I'm sure he would have been good looking and charismatic too.

The people who do these jobs are not supposed to be representatives of the gaming community - they're supposed to be part of a slick presentation, in the same way that whoever presents the weather isn't supposed to represent the meteorological community. Compare this to Soe who was presented as a knowledgeable analyst/interviewer/caster, or Scarlett who was treated in exactly the same way as every other player, at least by NASL themselves (some of the community comments, on the other hand, were less than kind). These are the people who are supposed to be female representatives of the gaming community, and they did a stellar job of it.

This sort of thing is definitely worth keeping an eye on, because if it becomes a trend then we have the basis for an argument that women are treated differently than men. But one organistaion, employing one woman, one time, to be a good looking camera presence is not inherently indicative of a sexist attitude towards women.
You Got The Touch
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
July 18 2012 13:25 GMT
#283
The title had me going for a lil bit. lol

Now people lets not get ahead of ourselves. We are a community that made a fanclub for a random model that existed in our lives for 4-5 days. Lindsay something, so give us pretty and we will be contempt. That's unfortunately what the human nature has devolved into.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 18 2012 13:33 GMT
#284
I also think it's wrong to hire someone to host an event who did not have any prior interest in the community and who does not have any knowledge about the game, solely because of their gender and their looks. Furthermore I think it's in NASL's best interest to use someone that female gamers will look up to instead of just using someone that male gamers will look at. I doubt anybody showed up for the event or watched the event because Lauren Elise was there but I think they would be able to attract more female gamers if they didn't indirectly promote a somewhat sexist atmosphere through a gimmick like this.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 13:33 GMT
#285
On July 18 2012 22:15 rave[wcr] wrote:
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.


Yeah let's limit the group of models that want to work in gaming further...
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
July 18 2012 13:34 GMT
#286
This is silly. Attractive women are a normal thing, believe it or not. You're over thinking this.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 13:35 GMT
#287
On July 18 2012 22:33 prplhz wrote:
I also think it's wrong to hire someone to host an event who did not have any prior interest in the community and who does not have any knowledge about the game, solely because of their gender and their looks. Furthermore I think it's in NASL's best interest to use someone that female gamers will look up to instead of just using someone that male gamers will look at. I doubt anybody showed up for the event or watched the event because Lauren Elise was there but I think they would be able to attract more female gamers if they didn't indirectly promote a somewhat sexist atmosphere through a gimmick like this.


That's funny. Hire ugly chicks or you're SEXIST arrrr!
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
July 18 2012 13:38 GMT
#288
What bugs me about the people complaining that they have a playboy model/attractive, non-e-sports involved woman hosting the event is that you WANT a host who is a sex symbol, just not a CONTEMPORARY sex symbol. Girls like Lauren evoke memories of the girls you can't go near as a starcraft nerd, so you want an attractive starcraft-interested woman you can idolize.

You're no better than the people who called Lauren eye candy, just less honest, and jealous that you can't be attracted to women like that because if you were, you'd be constantly disappointed.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:43:45
July 18 2012 13:41 GMT
#289
On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Lol no, its a male society and males get the better jobs and paychecks

Off course she got the job because she looks good,looking good was one of the requirement of the job.
We would not want bad looking hosts would we?
Same goes for the males btw (though sc might be an exception lol)
All sports commentators and hosts on tv are good looking.

Shinobi1982 July 18 2012 21:20. Posts 1143
Lol at this btw, thx for posting it.
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 13:44 GMT
#290
Sidenote: I have to say that there a alot of people being so cynicial about human nature: isn't pessimisme a bit to easy? Stand at the sidelines saying humanity is shit so if bad stuff happens you can say "i was right".... And if things go well thats just better then you hoped for so you can be happy about that?

Still, focusing on the main topic at hand: there are alot of problems imo and NASL using some pretty girl seems sorta pettish in the grand scheme. And maybe having pretty women function at a host isn't a bad thing. So many aspects like looks and intelligence are given to us @ birth. What is so wrong about the notion that a pretty woman gets chosen as a host because of her looks? Seems to me the woman is just using the tools she got from nature. If she was using her looks to do bad things like deceive i could understand but being a hostess... explain to me whats so wrong about it.

And for the people watching...Is it wrong for a male to find a good looking woman aesthetically pleasing? Should i deny the fact that appearence matters to me? Im not saying you should take it to far (base all your decisions on how pretty the girl is) but allowing it to matter seems oke. I'm not going around beating up ugly women, so thats not the problem.

Now the argument is probaly going to be the objectiving of women. Yes, some men do that. But if you have a decent amount of intelligence you can actually find women pretty and not objective them. Its not an OR situation. I can watch NASL, see a pretty hostess and find that aesthetically pleasing... and still remember shes a human being.
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:48:01
July 18 2012 13:46 GMT
#291
On July 18 2012 21:35 Sbrubbles wrote:
I've only skimmed the thread, but have yet to see this adressed. What are the community's female alternatives to Lauren Elise? Are there any at all?. Edit: Ok, Soe. Any others?

This is not to say Lauren didn't do a great job, of course (props to her!).


You know, if NASL had advertised they were looking for a host and were willing to fund the travel expenses, I'm sure there would've been girls interested in eSports that would've applied. Hell, I don't know what/if they're paying Lauren Elise, but if they covered just my travel/board costs, I would've hosted the event for free. Actually, I would've worked for free even if they just covered plane tickets.

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace
kill or be killed.
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 13:47 GMT
#292
On July 18 2012 22:41 Rassy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Lol no, its a male society and males get the better jobs and paychecks

Off course she got the job because she looks good,looking good was one of the requirement of the job.
We would not want bad looking hosts would we?
Same goes for the males btw (though sc might be an exception lol)
All sports commentators and hosts on tv are good looking.

Shinobi1982 July 18 2012 21:20. Posts 1143
Lol at this btw, thx for posting it.


No, males don't "get" better jobs and paychecks. They work for them.
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 13:49 GMT
#293
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.
Anachromy
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States194 Posts
July 18 2012 13:50 GMT
#294
Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but in the world of traditional sports, i.e. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, American Football, etc. I have not once heard a female sportscaster in the 27 years I've been on this planet. I don't think it's just us in the SC2 community, but rather competitive sports in general.

women will occasionally do interviews, and flavor commentary, but rarely beyond that.

ES_JohnClark
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1121 Posts
July 18 2012 13:50 GMT
#295
did not read all of the comments.. but my 2 cents.

Drop the idea that every girl at an event has to be some hot, not so game bright, sex symbol. I love what NASL is doing and this season was a huge step in the right direction... until they brought on Lauren Elise. Very sad. Yes.. I know it happens in almost all sports. I will say though.. having been a player on the PDGA tour (Professional Disc Golf Association).. the women in that sport were welcomed in because they loved the game and because many of them were very good at it. Its a sad state in esports when we have to bring in women for their looks first and their passion for SC2 second. This has all been done in eSports before.. while at GGL (Global Gaming League).. we did the same thing there only on a great scale. They actually paid her a shit ton of money to be an employee of the GGL.. mostly because of her looks and it got the GGL and eSports no where.

So disappointed in NASL. Could you imagine me telling Rachel that we want her to host an event and the reason we tell her is because she is hot. CSN is pretty blessed to have an attractive women in eSports..but she got where she is today because she is very passionate about what she does and she is fucking good at it

Lets keep it that way please.. or we (eSports) just becomes even more like the WWE.
Still Naked!
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
July 18 2012 13:54 GMT
#296
On July 18 2012 22:49 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.


What country do you live in cuz I'm moving there.
kill or be killed.
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
July 18 2012 13:54 GMT
#297
On July 18 2012 11:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2.


She was born male, but is now physically female, and identifies as such. Otherwise, you pretty much put into words what's been mulling in my mind for the past couple months regarding Scarlett. I just don't think she's a good examplar for female gamers. I recognize her as a female gamer and respect her play (+ Show Spoiler +
she handily took down Osotjiy this weekend at WCS, in my opinion
), but... I dunno, wish I could flesh this thought out better. :-\

In whatever case, if I root for her, I'm going to simply because she's a great player, and I hope she continues to faceroll some big-time nerds in the future.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
rave[wcr]
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1166 Posts
July 18 2012 13:57 GMT
#298
On July 18 2012 22:33 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:15 rave[wcr] wrote:
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.


Yeah let's limit the group of models that want to work in gaming further...


id rather work with a limited but concentrated and included model group than a wide one without any focus. i dont want some pamela anderson wanna be derping around premier tournaments being awkward n shit.
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 13:59:02
July 18 2012 13:58 GMT
#299
On July 18 2012 22:57 rave[wcr] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:33 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:15 rave[wcr] wrote:
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.


Yeah let's limit the group of models that want to work in gaming further...


id rather work with a limited but concentrated and included model group than a wide one without any focus. i dont want some pamela anderson wanna be derping around premier tournaments being awkward n shit.


Please, please tell me somebody else heard Lauren Elise say she hoped there "weren't midgets walking around" because she was wearing a dress...
kill or be killed.
mrhobbers
Profile Joined August 2010
109 Posts
July 18 2012 14:04 GMT
#300
On July 18 2012 22:50 Anachromy wrote:
Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but in the world of traditional sports, i.e. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, American Football, etc. I have not once heard a female sportscaster in the 27 years I've been on this planet. I don't think it's just us in the SC2 community, but rather competitive sports in general.

women will occasionally do interviews, and flavor commentary, but rarely beyond that.



During some of the double-headers this season, some of the NBA games on ESPN they had a female analytic caster.

However, back to the thread, this community makes the biggest deals out of the smallest things. The top 2 threads on TL-SC2 right now are "Omg. I think MMA had sex with Jessica/Eve?" (which is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on TL) and "I can't take it. They hired a girl who did a fantastic job. That's terrible. They should of hired a different girl who has zero experience with a camera and a crowd, but she can talk about SC2 meta-game while she hands out shirts to fans."

I don't understand why people complain about everything? She did a great job, and I don't see why NASL wouldn't bring her back for S4.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
July 18 2012 14:05 GMT
#301
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 14:05 GMT
#302
On July 18 2012 22:58 effervescent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:57 rave[wcr] wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:33 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:15 rave[wcr] wrote:
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.


Yeah let's limit the group of models that want to work in gaming further...


id rather work with a limited but concentrated and included model group than a wide one without any focus. i dont want some pamela anderson wanna be derping around premier tournaments being awkward n shit.


Please, please tell me somebody else heard Lauren Elise say she hoped there "weren't midgets walking around" because she was wearing a dress...


Yup...
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 18 2012 14:05 GMT
#303
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


SEXIST

User was warned for this post
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 14:05 GMT
#304
On July 18 2012 22:58 effervescent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:57 rave[wcr] wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:33 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:15 rave[wcr] wrote:
they shld try to get someone who was a playboy model AND has some sort of background concerning electronics and video games. ie sara underwood. id settle for some hot cosplayer like milynn sarley.


Yeah let's limit the group of models that want to work in gaming further...


id rather work with a limited but concentrated and included model group than a wide one without any focus. i dont want some pamela anderson wanna be derping around premier tournaments being awkward n shit.


Please, please tell me somebody else heard Lauren Elise say she hoped there "weren't midgets walking around" because she was wearing a dress...


If she actually said that, i gotta say... :D:D:D:D
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 14:07 GMT
#305
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 14:10:03
July 18 2012 14:09 GMT
#306
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote:
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.


This post wins the thread. Completely agree. There are things that come as natural. Sweeping majority of audience are male. Hiring a female as assistance person is nothing wrong. Nothing at all. She is working such jobs, and do them well.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 14:12 GMT
#307
On July 18 2012 23:09 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote:
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.


This post wins the thread. Completely agree. There are things that come as natural. Sweeping majority of audience are male. Hiring a female as assistance person is nothing wrong. Nothing at all. She is working such jobs, and do them well.



Is the cameraman or the truck drivers up for public display?

I know the majority are male people, as I wrote in the original post. I also said that I understand why it feels natural, but I question the choice anyway and ask for others opinion.

So know I know your opinion, thank you very much
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 14:13 GMT
#308
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Ye but your "problem" if i understood it correctly is:

1) Don't we need people with understanding off the game? Imo, no cause she wasn't casting as far as i know (correct me if im wrong)

2) Does this send a bad message? Using attractive people to host events is pretty normal and i don't see a problem with this. Besides, ur assuming she was chosen because of her looks and not because she seemed to be a decent host. Maybe the confidence she gains from her looks is a key part in her being a good host?
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 14:20:57
July 18 2012 14:20 GMT
#309
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


My problem is, WHERE IS MY SHIRTLESS TASTELESS.

Edit: And/or Clutch.
kill or be killed.
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
July 18 2012 14:23 GMT
#310
When I first read the title I thought it said "How to prevent females from the StarCraft II community". Haha.

However, the points you bring up are no different than typical, everyday sexism that goes on in society. Video games in general is very male dominated activity. Hiring attractive women as the host of an event happens in every televised show, broadcast, stream, etc. They are simply appealing to their target market.

It sounds like you're arguing that you want more male hosts for these types of events over female hosts. To me it sounds like such a trivial thing to really debate. Why does it matter whether or not the host of the event has a penis or a vagina? I'm not there to gauge their sex; I'm there to watch StarCraft.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Poffel
Profile Joined March 2011
471 Posts
July 18 2012 14:24 GMT
#311
On July 18 2012 23:20 effervescent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


My problem is, WHERE IS MY SHIRTLESS TASTELESS.

Edit: And/or Clutch.

Here you go: Shirtless Tasteless

One problem solved, what else?
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
July 18 2012 14:25 GMT
#312
I have to say that the hostess is really pretty and is blonde which is a "Yes" for me . I think having more eye candy at event and watching the games live at the same time is going to make the event more exciting and I see no reason this will humiliate the image of how "female" is potrayed in a event like this .
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 14:25:37
July 18 2012 14:25 GMT
#313
On July 18 2012 23:24 Poffel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:20 effervescent wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


My problem is, WHERE IS MY SHIRTLESS TASTELESS.

Edit: And/or Clutch.

Here you go: Shirtless Tasteless

One problem solved, what else?

I have a very important question: Is that a Starbucks apron...?
kill or be killed.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 14:28:35
July 18 2012 14:25 GMT
#314
On July 18 2012 23:12 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:09 NightOfTheDead wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote:
I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did.

How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show.

If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization.


This post wins the thread. Completely agree. There are things that come as natural. Sweeping majority of audience are male. Hiring a female as assistance person is nothing wrong. Nothing at all. She is working such jobs, and do them well.



Is the cameraman or the truck drivers up for public display?

I know the majority are male people, as I wrote in the original post. I also said that I understand why it feels natural, but I question the choice anyway and ask for others opinion.

So know I know your opinion, thank you very much


When people hand out items, the camera shows the one who hands them out. It doesnt mean they have to be proffesionals. Do the people at tennis court that gather the balls also are also required to be proffesionals? They get screen time too. What are requirements for that? They must take the ball as soon as they can, so the pros can carry on. Yes she got some live mic time, but does it matter? Also for the notice, sure she didnt know anything about starcraft before (just a guess), but she tried to learn something, and did what research she could before the show. You dont need to close the door before people enter, because it is possible that in the future she might be much much more knowledgeable and more engaged with starcraft. But if not, she just did her job, thats all.
If the she didnt talk at all, well that would be a problem, dont you think? Silent female handing out items.
Silencioseu
Profile Joined June 2011
Cyprus493 Posts
July 18 2012 14:31 GMT
#315
How to present sc2 to females?Pffftt simple, introduce them to Boxer, that hotty boy <3!!
i kno i r badass no need to repeat
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
July 18 2012 14:34 GMT
#316
This thread is silly.

I will contribute by saying we need Megumixbear to clone herself and host every event.

megumi chan <3
I love crazymoving
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
July 18 2012 14:37 GMT
#317
I don't really care either way. I never pay attention when there isn't a game on and mute the stream if the casters are being annoying, so I can't see any way that the way a female is presented could get on my nerves...
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10697 Posts
July 18 2012 14:47 GMT
#318
Imho we should have trained Monkeys (among various other animals) for these kind of Jobs.

That would be truely unique.
Le BucheRON
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada619 Posts
July 18 2012 14:57 GMT
#319
On July 18 2012 23:47 Velr wrote:
Imho we should have trained Monkeys (among various other animals) for these kind of Jobs.

That would be truely unique.

Would that we could. Would that we could my friend.
Guess who`s special?!
RageBot
Profile Joined November 2010
Israel1530 Posts
July 18 2012 15:01 GMT
#320
On July 18 2012 23:13 supervizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Ye but your "problem" if i understood it correctly is:

1) Don't we need people with understanding off the game? Imo, no cause she wasn't casting as far as i know (correct me if im wrong)

2) Does this send a bad message? Using attractive people to host events is pretty normal and i don't see a problem with this. Besides, ur assuming she was chosen because of her looks and not because she seemed to be a decent host. Maybe the confidence she gains from her looks is a key part in her being a good host?


To be blunt, her problem is that she's a starcraft girl-gamer, and she's pissed that another women who doesn't really care for the game gets attention just because she's hot, she feels that's unfair to her but she knows that she can't just say what she really feels.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 15:07:48
July 18 2012 15:05 GMT
#321
On July 18 2012 22:22 The Touch wrote:
Show nested quote +
A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts.


But she didn't play the same role as the likes of Day[9], Bitter, and iNcontrol. She was mostly used as an usher and friendly face, and this doesn't require any game knowledge. Similarly, the guy who was announcing the players did not need game knowledge to do his job. Appearance was important for both of these roles, and if NASL had employed a man instead of Lauren Elise, I'm sure he would have been good looking and charismatic too.

The people who do these jobs are not supposed to be representatives of the gaming community - they're supposed to be part of a slick presentation, in the same way that whoever presents the weather isn't supposed to represent the meteorological community. Compare this to Soe who was presented as a knowledgeable analyst/interviewer/caster, or Scarlett who was treated in exactly the same way as every other player, at least by NASL themselves (some of the community comments, on the other hand, were less than kind). These are the people who are supposed to be female representatives of the gaming community, and they did a stellar job of it.

This sort of thing is definitely worth keeping an eye on, because if it becomes a trend then we have the basis for an argument that women are treated differently than men. But one organistaion, employing one woman, one time, to be a good looking camera presence is not inherently indicative of a sexist attitude towards women.


Well as for your first statement; 2gd was like the most popular host to date afaik, and he didn't know shit about SC2, so totally agree with you there. Imo it has less to do about game knowledge, but more about being a community person, or just someone who's actually invested in what's going on. Hiring porn actresses imo feels like a really cheap way of doing it.

As for your second statement.. Dunno about the UK, but in Sweden the weathermen on TV are meteorologists presenting their work.
Isn't this what happens at pretty much every NASL / MLG / IEM? There are always booth babes or models shoved in somehow that none really knows why they're there apart from looking good.
Imo it's kind of demeaning to the viewership. Basically they're saying "let's put up a porn actress and the pasty white kids who've never talked to a girl in their life without pissing their pants will flock like rats to a carcass."
Meh...

On July 18 2012 22:50 Anachromy wrote:
Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but in the world of traditional sports, i.e. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, American Football, etc. I have not once heard a female sportscaster in the 27 years I've been on this planet. I don't think it's just us in the SC2 community, but rather competitive sports in general.

women will occasionally do interviews, and flavor commentary, but rarely beyond that.


I've seen plenty. On top of my head there's a fairly old woman (not there for sex appeal) who's part of doing the analytics in hockey championships.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
July 18 2012 15:14 GMT
#322
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case.

Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself.

No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts.

Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless.

The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No.

Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking.

The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed.


Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general.

So, once again: What is your problem?
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
zEnVy
Profile Joined June 2011
United States446 Posts
July 18 2012 15:18 GMT
#323
Stop making a big deal about it, Why is it every-time an attractive female that isn't a masters player shows up at an event we have to have a 10 page thread saying she doesn't deserve to be there?

This community is obviously filled with a bunch of white-knight wanna be virgins, who try to look like a good guy but in the end come off as chauvinistic without even realizing they're doing it.

This is the real world, it's not exclusive to Starcraft 2, and it's not even a bad thing. Beautiful people are desirable as public figures because humans by nature admire physical attractiveness above all else. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's not being used to discriminate or infringe upon a person's basic rights. It's not like she's being asked to provide deep commentary on the games, that's other people's jobs.

You need good looking and charismatic people to present eSports just like you need socially awkward nerds to tell the audience why a terran takes gas at 13 instead of 14. People seem to hate on anybody who tries to show up at an eSports even who doesn't play 20 hours a week and that's ridiculous.
Vildhjerta
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden20 Posts
July 18 2012 15:22 GMT
#324
On July 19 2012 00:14 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case.

Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one:

Show nested quote +
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself.

No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts.

Show nested quote +
Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless.

The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No.

Show nested quote +
Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking.

The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed.


Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general.

So, once again: What is your problem?


My answer is still the same lol Already explained it and I am not trying to convince you to think as I do. Nor am I convinced to change my opinion by your rude answer
CluEleSs_UK
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom583 Posts
July 18 2012 15:26 GMT
#325
If you have to bring up a thread to highlight this, you're causing the problem yourself. If people stopped making a fucking big deal out of everything, we wouldn't have these issues.
"If it turns out he is leaving the ESL to focus on cooking crystal meth I'll agree that it is somewhat disgraceful, but I'll hold off judgement until then."
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
July 18 2012 15:28 GMT
#326
On July 19 2012 00:18 zEnVy wrote:
Stop making a big deal about it, Why is it every-time an attractive female that isn't a masters player shows up at an event we have to have a 10 page thread saying she doesn't deserve to be there?

This community is obviously filled with a bunch of white-knight wanna be virgins, who try to look like a good guy but in the end come off as chauvinistic without even realizing they're doing it.

This is the real world, it's not exclusive to Starcraft 2, and it's not even a bad thing. Beautiful people are desirable as public figures because humans by nature admire physical attractiveness above all else. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's not being used to discriminate or infringe upon a person's basic rights. It's not like she's being asked to provide deep commentary on the games, that's other people's jobs.

You need good looking and charismatic people to present eSports just like you need socially awkward nerds to tell the audience why a terran takes gas at 13 instead of 14. People seem to hate on anybody who tries to show up at an eSports even who doesn't play 20 hours a week and that's ridiculous.

Because she doesn't play the game at all and there are plenty of goodlooking ladies in the community who have a greater appreciation for the game?

What's that? Where are they? They're all busy trying not to be ATTENTION WHORES because that's what they get outed out as if they happen to be female trying to gain credibility in the eSports scene.
kill or be killed.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
July 18 2012 15:28 GMT
#327
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Snoodles
Profile Joined March 2012
401 Posts
July 18 2012 15:31 GMT
#328
All you purists are in for a reality check as this scene grows. Everything you might dislike about mainstream sports will become a normal part of e-sports: too much advertising, bandwagoners, sell-out stars and teams, no-talent women hired to do nothing but get your attention, drama, scandals, whatever. This lauren chick is just the beginning. You'll all be saying you loved e-sports before it was cool.
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
July 18 2012 15:31 GMT
#329
On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.

Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.
kill or be killed.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
July 18 2012 15:34 GMT
#330
On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.

Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.

She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14080 Posts
July 18 2012 15:37 GMT
#331
On July 19 2012 00:22 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 00:14 r.Evo wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case.

Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself.

No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts.

Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless.

The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No.

Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking.

The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed.


Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general.

So, once again: What is your problem?


My answer is still the same lol Already explained it and I am not trying to convince you to think as I do. Nor am I convinced to change my opinion by your rude answer


If you wouldn't want to convince people to think as you do you wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. The rudeness comes from the fact that all of your arguments shatter in face of looking at comparable events in other sports or even events in general.

This isn't about "how to present females in the SC2 community?", this is about mocking an organisational decision which has only one purpose: Profit. If hiring a good looking female host is profitable and attracts viewers it's a good decision. Take a look at motorsports. Take a look at tour de france victory celebrations. Hiring a good looking female host to make your event more popular is no "problem" - it is standard. Why? Because it works.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
effervescent
Profile Joined May 2011
United States47 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 15:39:59
July 18 2012 15:39 GMT
#332
On July 19 2012 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.

Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.

She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.

Source please? What were the qualifications? Where can I apply?
kill or be killed.
Neeh
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway458 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 15:46:26
July 18 2012 15:45 GMT
#333
She was hired to be a pretty face, that's pretty standard in anything these days. Nor do I see why it's a problem..I think this whole "e-sports" movement has a few other issues or quirks to get past before we start to nitpick on things like these.
And if you read her tweets it's not like she's too innocent in all this, saying how' she's going to wear a short dress and hopes there are now dwarfs around?

People here act like the female are animals, and that they're forced to go around in small dresses and tease everyone..no, just no? They do that shit cause they want to, they have a choice. And they're paied and hired, like anyone else there.
In fact I don't see any thread about how good lookin' clutch was, cause he was rather styled up! Fucking exploiting his good looks! Gawd!
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 15:47 GMT
#334
On July 19 2012 00:01 RageBot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 23:13 supervizor wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:
On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.

What exactly is your problem?


Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)


Ye but your "problem" if i understood it correctly is:

1) Don't we need people with understanding off the game? Imo, no cause she wasn't casting as far as i know (correct me if im wrong)

2) Does this send a bad message? Using attractive people to host events is pretty normal and i don't see a problem with this. Besides, ur assuming she was chosen because of her looks and not because she seemed to be a decent host. Maybe the confidence she gains from her looks is a key part in her being a good host?


To be blunt, her problem is that she's a starcraft girl-gamer, and she's pissed that another women who doesn't really care for the game gets attention just because she's hot, she feels that's unfair to her but she knows that she can't just say what she really feels.


Don't be that guy
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3372 Posts
July 18 2012 15:50 GMT
#335
The way Lauren was presented, was not as a host of knowledge and it was never the way to be.
The way Lauren was presented, was the exact same as the ones during wrestling matches, the pretty one walking around with a "round two" sign.

To which i say game knowledge should never be the issue of such role.
However there are issues in the way wrestling, portraits women.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
Equity213
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada873 Posts
July 18 2012 15:54 GMT
#336
I didnt really have an opinion about this, but i've come to the conclusion that I dont care at all. This is only an issue because threads like this are making it one. So they get a pretty face to do some announcing, just like every other sport in the world.

They have pretty ladies holding microphones at the world series of poker, do you see threads like this on liquidpoker? Nope. Grow up guys. If you dont like it look at something else for 30 seconds.
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 15:54 GMT
#337
On July 19 2012 00:39 effervescent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.

Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.

She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.

Source please? What were the qualifications? Where can I apply?


They probaly just knew somebody or used an agency... they met her, liked her and that was it. No public job offer. Its much easier and less time consuming. So the reason you weren't chosen was because your currently not friends with a staff member / with the chosen agency?
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
July 18 2012 15:58 GMT
#338
On July 18 2012 23:47 Velr wrote:
Imho we should have trained Monkeys (among various other animals) for these kind of Jobs.

That would be truely unique.


Finally somebody actually contributes something construcitve to the discussion.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
flanksteak
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada246 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 16:06:03
July 18 2012 16:05 GMT
#339
Just depends on the role they're hired for? If she was doing starcraft commentary/analysis there'd be an issue. I don't think it's that complicated.
Meatex
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia285 Posts
July 18 2012 16:07 GMT
#340
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.
Really, why is real cheese so hard to come by in Korea? ^&^
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 16:10 GMT
#341
On July 19 2012 01:07 Meatex wrote:
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.


if you read this post back, do you still support it? Or do you think you might have gone and taking the stereotypes a bit to far?
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
July 18 2012 17:34 GMT
#342
I completely agree with the OP. The thing is, most people don't care because they get to see the "chicks" or as they call it. But may I remind you of an IEM final when Morrow won, and when the prize ceremony was happening where 2 women escorted the players out, wearing headphones. The players, as their facial expressions prove, where very uncomfortable. Women should NOT be used like this, or in fact paid for that.

My opinion on that is I came to watch E-Sports and Starcraft. Not half naked divas in a gaming tournament.
Luppa <3
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 18 2012 17:35 GMT
#343
On July 19 2012 00:54 supervizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 00:39 effervescent wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:
On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.

@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.

Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.

Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.

She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.

Source please? What were the qualifications? Where can I apply?


They probaly just knew somebody or used an agency... they met her, liked her and that was it. No public job offer. Its much easier and less time consuming. So the reason you weren't chosen was because your currently not friends with a staff member / with the chosen agency?


This is how most of the professional world works. I can't remember the last time I got a job because I applied to an ad. I can't remember the last time I appied to an ad. I am sure Clutch does not have a deep, masters level understanding of SC2, but they let him host the event too. Should we demand his qualifications as well or is that just for women who are involved?

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sepheren
Profile Joined May 2012
United States66 Posts
July 18 2012 17:46 GMT
#344
I don't think the title has anything to do with the OP. I didn't see anything on how to present females, I only read complaints about NASL's choice of Lauren Elise and the OP's dissatisfaction...
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
July 18 2012 17:48 GMT
#345
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.

It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me.
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
Chrono000
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Korea (South)358 Posts
July 18 2012 17:48 GMT
#346
I agree with the OP.

Its a joke how people think its a great idea having women just as beauty objects during events. Its really out of place right now and feels really forced.
Broodwurst
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1586 Posts
July 18 2012 17:52 GMT
#347
On July 19 2012 02:34 ODKStevez wrote:
I completely agree with the OP. The thing is, most people don't care because they get to see the "chicks" or as they call it. But may I remind you of an IEM final when Morrow won, and when the prize ceremony was happening where 2 women escorted the players out, wearing headphones. The players, as their facial expressions prove, where very uncomfortable. Women should NOT be used like this, or in fact paid for that.

My opinion on that is I came to watch E-Sports and Starcraft. Not half naked divas in a gaming tournament.


Holy shit, Morrow and IdrA looked akward on stage? 2 years ago, at the first live sc2 event? Must have been the girls then lmao.
Fanboys = (ウ╹◡╹)ウ /// I like smiley faces
MidgetHumper
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom280 Posts
July 18 2012 17:52 GMT
#348
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked

User was banned for this post.


THIS!

User was temp banned for this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255#1
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
July 18 2012 18:02 GMT
#349
Having an attractive woman doing some random small job does not 'hurt' anyone. If something as little as this really bothers somebody so much then it is your own fault, just put your energy into something else, something productive.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 18:08:47
July 18 2012 18:07 GMT
#350
On July 19 2012 02:48 Chrono000 wrote:
I agree with the OP.

Its a joke how people think its a great idea having women just as beauty objects during events. Its really out of place right now and feels really forced.


Have you ever seen any boxing match or mma match. Those women are there purely for eye candy, and it's taken to another level by the fact they are only wearing bikini's. It has never hurt anyone. Not to mention the countless 'booth babes' and similar jobs that seem to have already set the precedent for such things in the gaming scene.

If having to look at an attractive women is so bothersome it's nobody but your own fault, nothing else really to say. How insecure does someone have to be to focus so hard on something that is so insignificant. You just gotta get over it.
Roynalf
Profile Joined August 2011
Finland886 Posts
July 18 2012 18:08 GMT
#351
She was hired to be eye candy, so its not unexpected that she is going to get treated like object. They could have hired some hostess who has gaming background in Starcraft if they wanted to have something else instead of the eye candy, but they went for eye candy route.
(V) (;,,;) (V) Woopwoopwoopwoop
Leetley
Profile Joined October 2010
1796 Posts
July 18 2012 18:08 GMT
#352
You're right OP. I despise NASL for this.
amazingoopah
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1925 Posts
July 18 2012 18:09 GMT
#353
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).

Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this.
zimz
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States510 Posts
July 18 2012 18:14 GMT
#354
On July 19 2012 03:09 amazingoopah wrote:
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).

Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this.

Probably because after one appearance nerds started raiding FB stalking her and making jokes nonstop and drooling.
zimz
Blackknight232
Profile Joined July 2011
United States169 Posts
July 18 2012 18:15 GMT
#355
I think Female Gamers should be presented more and more in the world. Female gamers have a spot in the competitive world as us guys and plus it would bring a new change and perspective to the e-sport world.
Viktorin
Profile Joined June 2012
Switzerland59 Posts
July 18 2012 18:17 GMT
#356
On July 19 2012 03:15 Blackknight232 wrote:
I think Female Gamers should be presented more and more in the world. Female gamers have a spot in the competitive world as us guys and plus it would bring a new change and perspective to the e-sport world.


Too bad there are not many competitive female gamers.
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 18:19:37
July 18 2012 18:19 GMT
#357
On July 19 2012 01:07 Meatex wrote:
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.

This sounds sad, but is very probably true. Everytime a normal looking female person appears on a streamed event, the forum here gets completely hyped: "Omg, she looks so awesome!", while I have to think to "Well yes, sure ~20yo girls usually look nice, but what's the hype? Anyone been in a club, disco or at least out on the street recently?"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 18 2012 18:22 GMT
#358
On July 19 2012 03:14 zimz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:09 amazingoopah wrote:
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).

Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this.

Probably because after one appearance nerds started raiding FB stalking her and making jokes nonstop and drooling.


There does seem to be a double standard when when it comes to women at events. People start demanding their qualifications for appearing at the event and demanding to know why people who "know more about the game" were not hired. Yet, if it is a guy who is hired, no one cares why he is at the event.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Kazeyonoma
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2912 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 18:31:10
July 18 2012 18:27 GMT
#359
the problem isn't with how she was utilized, or what she was utilized for, eye candy, attention, etc, that stuff exists everywhere, even outside of esports, the problem is that your average person, sees eye candy, understands it's purpose, and goes back home to normalcy, the subculture of gamers however, sees eye candy, sees them being particularly nice to us 'nerds' and then suddenly thinks, all women should both be a) this hot, and b) this nice to us all the time. It's largely a weird knee jerk reaction to things that gets us in trouble as a whole. People in our community also likes to troll/flame/joke beyond the 'normal' levels that you see because of the anonymity of the internet, and it sucks. Women are more than just pieces of meat or the buttend of a joke, but that's all they're ever seemingly used for at gaming events.

I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
July 18 2012 18:30 GMT
#360
On July 19 2012 03:19 grs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 01:07 Meatex wrote:
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.

This sounds sad, but is very probably true. Everytime a normal looking female person appears on a streamed event, the forum here gets completely hyped: "Omg, she looks so awesome!", while I have to think to "Well yes, sure ~20yo girls usually look nice, but what's the hype? Anyone been in a club, disco or at least out on the street recently?"


Are you kidding me? Those people are just half trolling being stupid aka kids. It's not serious... The fact you just stereotyped this entire community as " socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way" seems... (i left out the description cause i would get banned for it, but im sure you can see where i was going with this)
seeekr
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany11 Posts
July 18 2012 18:30 GMT
#361
On July 19 2012 02:48 HardlyNever wrote:
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.

It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me.


It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who does that (cringe/mute) with interviews and female hosts. Awkward and forced is exactly how I feel about these things, too.

I don't care about the gender of the people involved. The main thing is having passion and wanting to share that. That's why it's such a joy to watch someone like Day[9] cast a game -- he's ridiculously passionate. And he even manages to make those forced interviews to make somewhat nice because he just fills them with the fun and humor he's overflowing with!
Faressa
Profile Joined July 2012
United States1 Post
July 18 2012 18:33 GMT
#362
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked


Basically here is the problem.

There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine.


But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica.

The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at.





Are you serious?

I'm pretty new to the SC2 world, and I agree that most people in it seem to have good intentions. However, I've spent most of my life in male-dominated arenas as a female computer science professor, and sexism is real in the broader culture, not just as a joke.

I made it most of the way through college without realizing that. Then I met the real world.

Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 18 2012 18:33 GMT
#363
After watched the last NASL with Soe (not sure if that's her name), she seems to know a TINY smidge about the game. Most of the time it was Day[9] commentating on the plays and her agreeing with him and add something on top of the things already said.

But then again she is cute, so I guess that's okay.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
grs
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Germany2339 Posts
July 18 2012 18:36 GMT
#364
On July 19 2012 03:30 supervizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:19 grs wrote:
On July 19 2012 01:07 Meatex wrote:
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.

This sounds sad, but is very probably true. Everytime a normal looking female person appears on a streamed event, the forum here gets completely hyped: "Omg, she looks so awesome!", while I have to think to "Well yes, sure ~20yo girls usually look nice, but what's the hype? Anyone been in a club, disco or at least out on the street recently?"


Are you kidding me? Those people are just half trolling being stupid aka kids. It's not serious... The fact you just stereotyped this entire community as " socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way" seems... (i left out the description cause i would get banned for it, but im sure you can see where i was going with this)

I don't know if that leads anywhere and I am not on a trip to enrage you, but if you replace "this entire community" with "a large vocal part of every gaming website on the internet", that is basically it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 18 2012 18:39 GMT
#365
On July 19 2012 03:27 Kazeyonoma wrote:
the problem isn't with how she was utilized, or what she was utilized for, eye candy, attention, etc, that stuff exists everywhere, even outside of esports, the problem is that your average person, sees eye candy, understands it's purpose, and goes back home to normalcy, the subculture of gamers however, sees eye candy, sees them being particularly nice to us 'nerds' and then suddenly thinks, all women should both be a) this hot, and b) this nice to us all the time. It's largely a weird knee jerk reaction to things that gets us in trouble as a whole.

personally i think hiring her wasn't ideal, knowing how the community would grow, why not just let clutch do the hosting like he did most of the night anyways, and instead of pointing her out as a 'host', just have her around as eye candy, like most of the sponsor girls at events. the fact she got singled out is what is making this a big deal. we've all been to mlg's / etc / and there are nameless women standing around with less than normal amounts of clothing. Should they be there? probably not in a equal rights sort of point of view, but that's the sponsors perogative, NOT the tournaments choice.


Clutch is only one man and cannot do everything, or be everywhere. These events are ongoing, all day things where someone has to be read for to be on camera at all times. It is to much to expect that one person can handle every post game interview between both NASL and WCS, intro players and fill dead time.

People need to have reasonable expectations about these events. Most of them are not local for the organization running the tournament and people cannot expect them to fly out every starcraft personality to host these events. Sometimes they have to hire local people and some of those people could be attractive girls who have broadcast experience, but are not involved with the Esports scene.

But I am growing tired of these threads that degrade into people demanding proof that the hostess was qualified to be involved with the event. These threads simply do not happen if it is a guy who is on camera. It’s a double standard, no matter how people look at it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
July 18 2012 18:41 GMT
#366
I honestly don't see the problem. There are some women that they obviously hire to be eye-candy (Elise/Sporrer), and as long as nerds are lonely it will be a good investment to do so.

Then there are women who are hired because they are part of the scene and because they are good at what they do (looking at Smix here, although Anna is another example). It certainly helps that they are easy on the eyes, but their role in these events is hardly demeaning.

When they try to pigeonhole someone like Smix into a demeaning "eye-candy" role purely because they are female, then you can get all outraged. But getting upset because a model was hired to be eye-candy is the definition of retarded.
supervizor
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands42 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 18:51:55
July 18 2012 18:49 GMT
#367
On July 19 2012 03:36 grs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:30 supervizor wrote:
On July 19 2012 03:19 grs wrote:
On July 19 2012 01:07 Meatex wrote:
until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.

This sounds sad, but is very probably true. Everytime a normal looking female person appears on a streamed event, the forum here gets completely hyped: "Omg, she looks so awesome!", while I have to think to "Well yes, sure ~20yo girls usually look nice, but what's the hype? Anyone been in a club, disco or at least out on the street recently?"


Are you kidding me? Those people are just half trolling being stupid aka kids. It's not serious... The fact you just stereotyped this entire community as " socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way" seems... (i left out the description cause i would get banned for it, but im sure you can see where i was going with this)

I don't know if that leads anywhere and I am not on a trip to enrage you, but if you replace "this entire community" with "a large vocal part of every gaming website on the internet", that is basically it.


True, i misjudged the scope. You simply mean that everbody who ever said something stupid on these forums like "damn shes hot" is a socially awkward guy that can interact with others without games being involved in some way. Much better.

Thing is that i responded so strongly is because im feeling alot of cynisme and pessisme around here. Very bad vibe. You just stereotype these people and judge them right in their face. I actually read a blog a couple of days ago by a guy calling himself fatfail. I just can't escape this idea that some of the people here could use a compliment much more then your judgement.

O and i just so you know. You can read every post i ever made: im not one off the people you just judged. just had to call you out
Ender985
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain910 Posts
July 18 2012 18:50 GMT
#368
So, as far as I understand, we are talking of last weeks event, where Scarlett won the Blizz qualifyers sweeping the floor with many other well established players and even made her ultras dance in the last game, and where Soe did an amazing job not only at interviewing but also showing that she knows and genuinely enjoys the game, even daring to co-cast along with Day 9.

And now this post is open, asking "How to present females in the SCII-community?", and it centers around a playmate girl with 20 minutes of total screen time in the event, that was hired by a company to promote their products? Really??

I don't know if the short sightness is fortuite or voluntary.
Member of the Pirate Party - direct democracy, institutional transparency, and freedom of information
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11349 Posts
July 18 2012 18:50 GMT
#369
On July 19 2012 03:30 seeekr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 02:48 HardlyNever wrote:
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.

It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me.


It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who does that (cringe/mute) with interviews and female hosts. Awkward and forced is exactly how I feel about these things, too.

I don't care about the gender of the people involved
. The main thing is having passion and wanting to share that. That's why it's such a joy to watch someone like Day[9] cast a game -- he's ridiculously passionate. And he even manages to make those forced interviews to make somewhat nice because he just fills them with the fun and humor he's overflowing with!


One of these things is not like the other

But more seriously, regarding this entire thread is it such a big deal? We have this discussion every time there's a female on camera. Until they actually have booth babes in bikinis does it matter so much?
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
reki-
Profile Joined July 2008
Netherlands327 Posts
July 18 2012 18:54 GMT
#370
Even this threadtitle succeeds in sounding creepy. It also doesn't help seeing a bunch of guys in their t-shirt and maybe a fancy jacket and then have girls parade around in pretty dresses on certain tournaments.

Also the insta fanclub thread that's added the second a female caster/player comes into the spotlight or a huge discussion about something totally unrelated to the game whenever a minor detail becomes clear about a new player/caster.

The subject of females in esports is being handled completely childish and before that has settled girls might have a shot at gaining honest respect as an e-sports "athlete" but it will not be because they're such a good player for a good while to come.
>BD
eXwOn
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada351 Posts
July 18 2012 18:56 GMT
#371
annnnddd the starcraft community just got a little more socially awkward.

Creepy.
#2 in the world on the ladders!!! 3.31.11 :D:D:D
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 19:03:25
July 18 2012 19:01 GMT
#372
I have no problem with women hosts/interviewers or when they wear dresses. I was only disappointed they hired lauren cause I don't think she's needed when you already have women involved in the scene like megumixbear, rachel, anna, etc. I was disappointed they didn't use megumi, since she already did segments for NASL and hosted their sunday barcrafts, so I felt like it was a slap in her face when she already worked so closely with them during the season and was passed over.

I do think there is a double standard and women do get scrutinized more heavily any time they appear. I will still never understand all the hoopla over dresses on stage, since male casters/hosts wear suits, so it's natural for women to wear dresses too, so it's no big deal to me.

Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
July 18 2012 19:10 GMT
#373
On July 19 2012 03:22 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:14 zimz wrote:
On July 19 2012 03:09 amazingoopah wrote:
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).

Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this.

Probably because after one appearance nerds started raiding FB stalking her and making jokes nonstop and drooling.


There does seem to be a double standard when when it comes to women at events. People start demanding their qualifications for appearing at the event and demanding to know why people who "know more about the game" were not hired. Yet, if it is a guy who is hired, no one cares why he is at the event.


absolutely not. If a man hosts an event and does know shit about the game/the scene he will get the full critcism and flame, the SC2 community is able to pull off. I don't see why this should be different for women!
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 19:12:21
July 18 2012 19:11 GMT
#374
I watched the whole NASL weekend and stood up all night and I don't even know who Lauren Elise is...

But Scarlett won WCS and Soe did a pretty decent job based on what I saw, so wtf is this thread about lol

edit:
Also the title of this thread is just wrong.
Zandar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1541 Posts
July 18 2012 19:15 GMT
#375
I made a similar blog a while ago, thought I should share it here since it's relevant:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=327743
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
GertHeart
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States631 Posts
July 18 2012 19:23 GMT
#376
On July 18 2012 13:53 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'?


What do you mean, 'you people'?







Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek.
That's how I've been raised, sad as it is.


That's what I'm saying. That's how you're all raised that Nada is acceptable and has earned the right, and the woman hasn't. So one is sexist and the other isn't. When in reality they are no different from each other minus the accomplishments. I remember when KellyMilkies did a FHM photo shoot. For those unaware, KellyMilkies has done a lot in the community for more than 5 years in all of gaming not just SC2. Yet she got so much backlash for it. That's our community and every other gaming community. Uneducated on your own upbringing always lashing out at women more than men. Most don't even realize they do it. You're daughter has to be home by 9 your son can be back the next morning. etc... etc...
He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
July 18 2012 19:28 GMT
#377
On July 19 2012 04:23 GertHeart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:53 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'?


What do you mean, 'you people'?







On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek.
That's how I've been raised, sad as it is.


That's what I'm saying. That's how you're all raised that Nada is acceptable and has earned the right, and the woman hasn't. So one is sexist and the other isn't. When in reality they are no different from each other minus the accomplishments. I remember when KellyMilkies did a FHM photo shoot. For those unaware, KellyMilkies has done a lot in the community for more than 5 years in all of gaming not just SC2. Yet she got so much backlash for it. That's our community and every other gaming community. Uneducated on your own upbringing always lashing out at women more than men. Most don't even realize they do it. You're daughter has to be home by 9 your son can be back the next morning. etc... etc...


Kellymilkies hasn't done a lot for the community. In fact, she's pretty universally disliked in the DotA and LoL communities for her..antics.
gasmeter
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom249 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 19:34:16
July 18 2012 19:33 GMT
#378
Great points raised by the OP and ones that I almost fully agree with. For me, as a person who watches most of the big tournaments but has probably missed a few along the way, I haven't seen a female host that has been particularly bad. Anna Prosser, megumixbear and Rachel Quirico are the three that come to mind instantly and they all did a fantastic job.

NASL's hiring of Lauren for the NASL Finals was a huge mistake. Apart from being 'eye candy' as you put it, she offered nothing to the show (and Lauren if you read this, I am not saying you are a bad host, it's that you did not fit into an eSports Tournament).

Personally, I would have asked Clutch to do the hosting as well as emceeing. That man is a savior.

edit: typos -_-
Polt | MMA | MarineKing | Flash | Mvp | NesTea | INnoVation
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 18 2012 19:40 GMT
#379
On July 19 2012 03:50 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:30 seeekr wrote:
On July 19 2012 02:48 HardlyNever wrote:
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.

It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me.


It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who does that (cringe/mute) with interviews and female hosts. Awkward and forced is exactly how I feel about these things, too.

I don't care about the gender of the people involved
. The main thing is having passion and wanting to share that. That's why it's such a joy to watch someone like Day[9] cast a game -- he's ridiculously passionate. And he even manages to make those forced interviews to make somewhat nice because he just fills them with the fun and humor he's overflowing with!


One of these things is not like the other

But more seriously, regarding this entire thread is it such a big deal? We have this discussion every time there's a female on camera. Until they actually have booth babes in bikinis does it matter so much?


I told the producer that he needs to stuff her in a bikini and have her walk across the stage with "SET 1" "SET 2" etc... signs next time.

At least that way, they'll have earned all this unwarranted hate.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
July 18 2012 19:43 GMT
#380
I think the OP is confusing what Lauren did(her job had NOTHING TO DO WITH SC2 KNOWLEDGE) and I think many posters here didn't watch the event as they too, seem to think that Lauren's job is different than what the reality was at the event.

I cannot fathom or understand why having a male or a female with SC2 knowledge be a host is important. They are not casters. They are not analyzing the game. They are hosts...
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 18 2012 19:44 GMT
#381
On July 19 2012 03:50 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:30 seeekr wrote:
On July 19 2012 02:48 HardlyNever wrote:
TBH I almost always cringe and mute/go to a different tab when the female hosts/interviewers do their thing. Heck, I often do even when it's the males. It just feels so awkward and forced, and that isn't always the hosts' fault, sometimes it is.

It just always feels so forced. It is like the booth babes at E3 and stuff. It is just such a thinly veiled marketing ploy that I can't really bear it. I'm not sure the community even wants that; it screams marketing done by someone who isn't really part of the community. It is so basic and obvious; "hey there is this community with a lot of young males, young males like attractive girls, lets shoehorn attractive girls into anything we can!" Does the community really want that? I'm not sure it does, I think it wants people who genuinely feel like they are interested in Starcraft and are part of the community as well. If they happen to be female, then great, but they have to have a genuine interest in the community first, or it just feels awkward to me (not to mention they are always dressed in ways to make them stand out to a ridiculous degree).

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I watch Starcraft to watch Starcraft, and get involved and enthusiastic about the event with people who feel the same way. The "eye candy" thing is just so poorly done it detracts from the experience, for me.


It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who does that (cringe/mute) with interviews and female hosts. Awkward and forced is exactly how I feel about these things, too.

I don't care about the gender of the people involved
. The main thing is having passion and wanting to share that. That's why it's such a joy to watch someone like Day[9] cast a game -- he's ridiculously passionate. And he even manages to make those forced interviews to make somewhat nice because he just fills them with the fun and humor he's overflowing with!


One of these things is not like the other

But more seriously, regarding this entire thread is it such a big deal? We have this discussion every time there's a female on camera. Until they actually have booth babes in bikinis does it matter so much?

then it will truly be a recognized sport.
skipdog172
Profile Joined June 2010
United States331 Posts
July 18 2012 19:52 GMT
#382
On July 19 2012 04:10 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 03:22 Plansix wrote:
On July 19 2012 03:14 zimz wrote:
On July 19 2012 03:09 amazingoopah wrote:
why do people in these forums get so worked up about this? Same thing that happened with Lindsey Sporrer (who btw totally disappeared off the face of the pro sc2 community after all the commotion about her).

Even the vaunted Koreans have had stargirls in the booths during starleague games. Don't see why there always a section of the community hyperventilating about this.

Probably because after one appearance nerds started raiding FB stalking her and making jokes nonstop and drooling.


There does seem to be a double standard when when it comes to women at events. People start demanding their qualifications for appearing at the event and demanding to know why people who "know more about the game" were not hired. Yet, if it is a guy who is hired, no one cares why he is at the event.


absolutely not. If a man hosts an event and does know shit about the game/the scene he will get the full critcism and flame, the SC2 community is able to pull off. I don't see why this should be different for women!


But... they aren't analyzing the game. They weren't casting. They occasionally mentioned who won or lost. They were HOSTS. I swear most of you didn't even watch the event and seem to think that she was talking about starcraft... thats the job of the casters.

I hope more women like Lauren can host at these events so esports can be bigger and more like... ya know, real sports.
SCVfighting
Profile Joined July 2012
United States14 Posts
July 18 2012 20:00 GMT
#383
I don't know if i'm the only one who feels like this is a waste of space topic, but it is. Attractive men and women get movie roles and stripper jobs. The same reason good looking news anchors with good voices are chosen. MEN AND WOMEN. lets not pretend like we don't like attractive people and that its all made up and its Barbie and GI Joe's fault. This is just stupid. If she doesn't want to be objectified she'll go to college for dentistry not media.
GertHeart
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States631 Posts
July 18 2012 21:29 GMT
#384
On July 19 2012 04:28 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 04:23 GertHeart wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:53 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'?


What do you mean, 'you people'?







On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek.
That's how I've been raised, sad as it is.


That's what I'm saying. That's how you're all raised that Nada is acceptable and has earned the right, and the woman hasn't. So one is sexist and the other isn't. When in reality they are no different from each other minus the accomplishments. I remember when KellyMilkies did a FHM photo shoot. For those unaware, KellyMilkies has done a lot in the community for more than 5 years in all of gaming not just SC2. Yet she got so much backlash for it. That's our community and every other gaming community. Uneducated on your own upbringing always lashing out at women more than men. Most don't even realize they do it. You're daughter has to be home by 9 your son can be back the next morning. etc... etc...


Kellymilkies hasn't done a lot for the community. In fact, she's pretty universally disliked in the DotA and LoL communities for her..antics.


Not what I was going for, regardless, she has put more work into the community than 99% of the people, that includes you. Her being disliked is because of other retards too, and rumors that spread. These are commonplace in society. Even in your line "Universally disliked." I am in the LoL communty, I don't dislike her. Issue is it's easier to dislike a female than it is a male. And it's harder for a female to be liked again. This is no different than the weekly posts of "Is Esports dying?" "Is IdrA making a come back?" etc...

I'm saying people tend to jump to conclusions towards females much faster than men. You're no different from that sir. You've been raised that way. You don't even know the facts of everything, and there is no way for people to know all the factors, that's how it works, only those two know what happened 100%, but here is the truth, she got judged more harshly than the guy. Why? Because of the action? No, guys have done what she did and nothing was said about it. It was pointed at more heavily because it's a she, and not a he. That's how this world works, you as a male and a female are raised to believe females are inferior. If not? Why is it in most TV shows setup like this? Why is there almost never a powerful female character in any TV show that represents something without love and instead fights for rights? So much wishy washy stuff, while men are portrayed in countless ways females are always put in a format of the majority of housewives, even in stories/books.
He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert
Prothoughts24
Profile Joined July 2012
1 Post
July 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#385
Clearly written by a liberal feminist with poor looks. I understand how being uneducated and ugly must suck but try to understand that men enjoy looking at attractive woman, not ugly ones. There is without a doubt a place for the women you are bashing in SC2 and a place for them in all sports in general. At the same time, a woman who knows as much about the game and casting as the current male casters, is welcomed. Just remember for next time, your opinions are only stupid when you say them out loud, in your head you can always be right!

User was temp banned for this post.
s1ege
Profile Joined July 2012
Korea (South)123 Posts
July 18 2012 22:29 GMT
#386
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 18 2012 22:32 GMT
#387
On July 18 2012 22:35 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:33 prplhz wrote:
I also think it's wrong to hire someone to host an event who did not have any prior interest in the community and who does not have any knowledge about the game, solely because of their gender and their looks. Furthermore I think it's in NASL's best interest to use someone that female gamers will look up to instead of just using someone that male gamers will look at. I doubt anybody showed up for the event or watched the event because Lauren Elise was there but I think they would be able to attract more female gamers if they didn't indirectly promote a somewhat sexist atmosphere through a gimmick like this.


That's funny. Hire ugly chicks or you're SEXIST arrrr!

Yea, that's not what I said. Why are you posting when you don't bother to read?
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Mystgun
Profile Joined September 2010
Hong Kong311 Posts
July 18 2012 22:41 GMT
#388
I can understand why they would have someone like Lauren Elise at these events and it's definitely a balance between preserving the integrity of the events while attracting new viewers. NASL certainly has the right to experiment with new ways to get viewership and this is one of the classic strategies that have been proven to work.

What would strike me as a good balance is to bring in someone new who is interested enough to learn about the game and eventually become quite knowledgeable about game mechanics as well as the community overall.
TeslasPigeon
Profile Joined March 2012
464 Posts
July 18 2012 22:54 GMT
#389
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


Is this a joke? While Scarlett is a good player, she didn't even say a word when she won. In fact she left the stage and had to return to get her trophy. Hardly the sign of a person who would want to consider orating as a future career move.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 22:57:34
July 18 2012 22:55 GMT
#390
Shouldn't be a gender question at all.

Whenever someone with no achievements is overly displayed in the community, they get hate. Most girls fall into this category. Guys get it too (Inc/Destiny get shot at sometimes for having low results as players). Put people who have earned it in these positions of visibility, regardless of gender, instead of showing off girls in esports with no achievements and reinforcing the conception that girls achieve nothing.

Event hosting is a different story somewhat because it's not strictly game related, but I'd rather have someone who I know cares about the game than a random brought in for looks.
dudesrslywtf
Profile Joined July 2011
11 Posts
July 18 2012 22:57 GMT
#391
I'm surprised there are people out there who care about this. The same thing happens with attractive men being used in programs that are targetted towards women. I think it's dangerous to assume that just because someone is attractive it means they were probably chosen for that reason alone and are otherwise unqualified to be doing what they're doing. From what I've read in this thread from those who watched this event, people are either saying Lauren did a great job as a hostess or they didn't even notice her.
Sc2Null
Profile Joined April 2011
United States3754 Posts
July 18 2012 22:58 GMT
#392
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post
The great Spaghetti vs Screwdriver debacle of June '12" - Porcelina
Blossom
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom87 Posts
July 18 2012 23:07 GMT
#393
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.
Win
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 18 2012 23:10 GMT
#394
On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.

anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.
Sporadic44
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States533 Posts
July 18 2012 23:15 GMT
#395
as people, present them as what they are. people.
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:18:29
July 18 2012 23:16 GMT
#396
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



T.T Everyone probably thought this from reading the thread, so the joke lost all it's humor from being unoriginal, -1000pts for failing so hard.

I, currently, dislike how women are being presented (take the HSC "chair" commericals... WHO THE FUCK wants a model feeling a fucking chair? It wasn't even sexy, it was weird) like a car show. This is eSports, where people can be themselves. I want the girls, pretty or not, to come out as themselves. This whole "tits and ass" image that's been floating around the community has really been frustrating me. I want community, not a superficial figure.
FoTG fighting!
Alay
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:24:10
July 18 2012 23:18 GMT
#397
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)


1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_woman. No, she's not a guy.
2: She's pretty cute, imho.

Regardless, I concur that she is a bit too shy from what I've seen to cast probably... but that may change (or have already.)

On July 19 2012 08:16 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked



T.T Everyone probably thought this from reading the thread, so the joke lost all it's humor from being unoriginal, -1000pts for failing so hard.

I, currently, dislike how women are being presented (take the HSC "chair" commericals... WHO THE FUCK wants a model feeling a fucking chair? It wasn't even sexy, it was weird) like a car show. This is eSports, where people can be themselves. I want the girls, pretty or not, to come out as themselves. This whole "tits and ass" image that's been floating around the community has really been frustrating me. I want community, not a superficial figure.


Sadly, the fact is the male-dominated community is the target audience, so pretty women are an effective marketing tool. It's irritating, but I think it's just one of those sad facts of life that I doubt will ever change, so long as sex continues to sell so easily.
Blossom
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom87 Posts
July 18 2012 23:22 GMT
#398
On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.

anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.


They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.
Win
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:24:26
July 18 2012 23:23 GMT
#399
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)


Scarlett is a transgender, going from male to female. I'm pretty sure the transformation is complete by now.

True, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," and there are many, many eyes watching her now, especially since she's crushing a good bit of face left and right. For me, I don't find her attractive, but I find extremely few people attractive, so it's nothing personal, lol. 'Sides, it doesn't matter to me what she looks like. Wouldn't have a problem listening to her cast games; probably has some good insight.


I posted earlier today about how I don't think she'd make the best representative for people to point to when they're trying to promote female gamers. I've finally found a decent analogy, I think. It's not perfect, analogies never are, lol.

It's similar to, say, me, being an American, moving to France as a progamer (lol, me, a progamer.... m-D). Within a couple months, learning the language and working on citizenship requirements, etc., I say that I represent French gamers. Am I technically wrong? Well, no, I suppose not. But wouldn't someone like Stephano or Adelscott (for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm impossibly better than they are), who are native-born and all, make a more... I guess, "authentic" representative? Regardless of the "fact" that I'm more skilled or more intelligent than they are at the game, would they really want to use ME as the exemplar of their nation?

Gaah, I'm not wording this right and I'm sorry if I offend anyone. But hopefully that makes my earlier point a little clearer.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 18 2012 23:26 GMT
#400
On July 19 2012 08:22 Blossom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.

anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.


They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.

you seem pretty uninformed about who they are. here at least is trump's gf's involvement:

http://cyber-sports.net/taxonomy/term/62

after a lengthy search, i still--for the life of me--cant find her name. =(
s1ege
Profile Joined July 2012
Korea (South)123 Posts
July 18 2012 23:33 GMT
#401
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post


Scarlett is the most attractive looking SC2 woman I have ever seen ever on the internet. She has amazing SC2 skills as well as being aesthetically pleasing to anyone's eyes. I think she would benefit from being a host or caster for a tournament if she gets eliminated. She would be a hell of a lot better than Anna Prosser or CSN_Rachel or (lol) the blonde from NASL 3 in terms of looks and knowledge.
Blossom
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom87 Posts
July 18 2012 23:35 GMT
#402
On July 19 2012 08:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:22 Blossom wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.

anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.


They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.

you seem pretty uninformed about who they are. here at least is trump's gf's involvement:

http://cyber-sports.net/taxonomy/term/62

after a lengthy search, i still--for the life of me--cant find her name. =(


Rachel from CyberSports

Weirdly enough, her and Anna were the two in the forefront of my mine when I wrote. It may be that they don't have the chance to talk about the games. Although, on first glance all the videos seem community motivated. Nothing stategy, etc. But i'll have a deeper look!

Thanks for the link!
Win
Deleted User 109835
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
629 Posts
July 18 2012 23:36 GMT
#403
--- Nuked ---
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 18 2012 23:36 GMT
#404
On July 19 2012 08:35 Blossom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:26 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:22 Blossom wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:10 dAPhREAk wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:07 Blossom wrote:
On July 18 2012 07:58 Vildhjerta wrote:

First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. There are several female profiles in the StarCraft community who possess the acquired knowledge and are passionate about the game, but Lauren Elise is, according to me, not one of them.


I've not watched a Starcraft tournament with female hosts in which they have not made a fool of themselves. Showmanship and charisma are not the most fundamental characteristics of a host, it's a host's passion and dedication for what they do which makes them stand out. None of the female hosts have much idea of the game apart from a couple of gamers names (or so it seems). I'd much rather Idra (who is renowned for his showmanship and charisma- /sarcasm) than any of the current female hosts- not because they're women, or they're apparently attractive, but because they don't seem to know what's going on.

Using good looking women as hosts to market products, etc, to the male dominated e-sports community is a fantastic idea, but the quality of the tournament should come first. At the moment, the community has shown no promising female hosts, so were making do with what we've got, which, as a spectator, is ruining a lot of tournaments. Especially post-match player interviews.

...and I swear to god, monitors are coming fitted with beer goggles these days.

anna, trump's gf (sorry, i forgot her name) and megumi.... i imagine they know more about the scene than you.


They probably do know more about the scene, but I don't watch tournaments to hear girls gossip. I want to see the games, hear the hosts talk about the tactics, strategy. Not just reiterate what they could remember Day9 or MrBitter saying during a cast and questioning them on that.

you seem pretty uninformed about who they are. here at least is trump's gf's involvement:

http://cyber-sports.net/taxonomy/term/62

after a lengthy search, i still--for the life of me--cant find her name. =(


Rachel from CyberSports

Weirdly enough, her and Anna were the two in the forefront of my mine when I wrote. It may be that they don't have the chance to talk about the games. Although, on first glance all the videos seem community motivated. Nothing stategy, etc. But i'll have a deeper look!

Thanks for the link!

thanks. that was bothering me for awhile. could not remember her name. lol. rachel seltzer.
SC4Life
Profile Joined July 2012
1 Post
July 18 2012 23:37 GMT
#405
On July 19 2012 07:20 Prothoughts24 wrote:
Clearly written by a liberal feminist with poor looks. I understand how being uneducated and ugly must suck but try to understand that men enjoy looking at attractive woman, not ugly ones. There is without a doubt a place for the women you are bashing in SC2 and a place for them in all sports in general. At the same time, a woman who knows as much about the game and casting as the current male casters, is welcomed. Just remember for next time, your opinions are only stupid when you say them out loud, in your head you can always be right!

User was temp banned for this post.


Lawls, just read through this thread and this is by far the best post in here. NAILED it bro, think that's a thread GG right there.

User was banned for this post.
Blossom
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom87 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:40:25
July 18 2012 23:39 GMT
#406
On July 19 2012 08:36 SKTerran.117 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:33 s1ege wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post


Scarlett is the most attractive looking SC2 woman I have ever seen ever on the internet. She has amazing SC2 skills as well as being aesthetically pleasing to anyone's eyes. I think she would benefit from being a host or caster for a tournament if she gets eliminated. She would be a hell of a lot better than Anna Prosser or CSN_Rachel or (lol) the blonde from NASL 3 in terms of looks and knowledge.


if you think scarlett looks better than rachel you need to get your eyes checked


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, although I would agree with you. But not to the extent to suggest that I'd rather her than anybody else.

MLG should hire out Megan Fox and watch their ratings rocket- although i'm not suggesting she'd make a good host.
Win
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 23:49:05
July 18 2012 23:48 GMT
#407
On July 19 2012 08:39 Blossom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:36 SKTerran.117 wrote:
On July 19 2012 08:33 s1ege wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post


Scarlett is the most attractive looking SC2 woman I have ever seen ever on the internet. She has amazing SC2 skills as well as being aesthetically pleasing to anyone's eyes. I think she would benefit from being a host or caster for a tournament if she gets eliminated. She would be a hell of a lot better than Anna Prosser or CSN_Rachel or (lol) the blonde from NASL 3 in terms of looks and knowledge.


if you think scarlett looks better than rachel you need to get your eyes checked


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, although I would agree with you. But not to the extent to suggest that I'd rather her than anybody else.

MLG should hire out Megan Fox and watch their ratings rocket- although i'm not suggesting she'd make a good host.


You mean plummet ... Way to pick a one hit wonder that got a few boys to blow there load over the car scene in transformers, her acting is a pretty good indication of her actual beauty imo. Out of all the women on earth you chose to use in a manner of sexual tone, you choose her? Scarlett Johansson, Jessica Biel, etc...

But I do agree with beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I suppose if she's your pick go for it.
FoTG fighting!
justBunneh
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada38 Posts
July 18 2012 23:55 GMT
#408
I don't see a problem with an attractive female host. Any good host will brief and do some research on what they are hosting. I'm more concern with the casting, and at NASL I thought Soe did a beautiful job. I was surprised she kept up with day9 because I'm so used to bad female casters I'm a female and I'm not lesbian or bi, but I like pretty people regardless of gender. It's only when they're inadequacy of their job am I upset. But it's not like Lauren was casting or put in a position to discuss Starcraft. She was there to assist and support whoever was mainly hosting. Do you really need a Starcraft "Pro" to throw free giveaways? Will using an average person make people watch less NASL? No, people watch starcraft because they love it, and pretty girls are just a bonus. Marketing is a hard thing to do, and it's just another way for the media to hype up shit and make more money, and we all want money. You can't hate a smart marketing plan because it's working. It's like commercials, just ignore them or acknowledge the smart plan.

Side thought: The best way to promote equality for gaming i guess... is to be ignorant of difference. Let's just say,starcraft is a gender neutral community. You don't know if you're playing a female or male online, it's gender neutral. So what if you assume every person you play is a male? That's only a conditioned instinct and no big deal. I believe gaming should start directing to, not grouping girls together and promoting them, but grouping males and females together and not giving a shit on gender.
Summon your Zealots!
Destriel
Profile Joined October 2011
41 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 00:03:21
July 18 2012 23:58 GMT
#409
i agree 100% with op. i did not appreciate the "eye candy" at ipl. i want to watch starcraft, everything else is beside the point, and if the "everything else" involves objectification of women, well, you guys can keep that part. ill just watch the starcraft.

edited to say, i love when a knowledgeable woman like seltzer or soe does commentary, interviews, etc - there are not enough women taking those jobs. but then you get the awkward and unprofessional "boobs and legs" people that couldnt interview a rock and have never had a lick of media training who somehow end up landing these jobs and give the whole scene a bad name. its just dumb.
GhostFiber
Profile Joined January 2012
Australia88 Posts
July 19 2012 00:18 GMT
#410
It's very unfortunate threads like these become a big deal, it's like when you goto a football game and you have cheer leaders, they are cool. But no... They are not cool to Vildhjerta, it sends the wrong message blah blah blah.

Everything has to be politically correct on the interwebs or you get people like this Vildhjerta belittling anything that isn't the utopia of gender relations. It's shocking... NASL now look bad because he has forced us to think really hard about something that generally we just enjoy.

We watch SC2 games to be entertained! It doesn't always have to be about the ultimate analysis or whatever. A lot of people watch SC2 half drunk at BarCraft , so what gives, Why so serious?
Desiato
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada185 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 01:14:01
July 19 2012 01:03 GMT
#411
The problem largely comes down to consistency. How many women have been introduced at one event or tournament, displayed little to a moderate level of SC2 knowledge (moderate being, on par with a lot of lesser male casters, solid gold league type stuff but not to the point where they should be PROFESSIONALLY casting) and then they disappear rarely to be seen again?

I think it creates a lot of animosity because the situation highly implies that they're not there on merit or through visible work within the community, but as someone with lucky connections who is pushed into the spotlight due to their gender. Really it's an unfair situation for both sides, for the women, they haven't been given an opportunity to build a rapport with the community or hone their casting skills before being prematurely displayed as a beacon for their gender in esports. Then they're torn apart by the community for their lack of knowledge and awkward casting, probably to the point of not returning. You can't blame someone for accepting a job but you do have to question the actions of the people who put them in that position, one that seemingly invites failure and criticism so easily. On the other side we viewers get nervous awkward interviews and/or obvious casting with little to no real analytical insight, is it any wonder we're a bit annoyed.

We rage about shitty male casters as well but almost all of them are firmly entrenched in the esports industry, often well known youtube personalities or also casting many many tournaments in a year. Most of these girls don't have that traction, the fact that they appear seeming from nowhere into these highly visible hosting positions seems to lend creedence to the myth that they represent a gender and not Starcraft 2 itself. This combined with the fact that you have women like Lauren hired simply as "eye candy", it creates an odd dichotomy and confusion within the community, how are you supposed to respect female casters as a meritorious hire when they host alongside playboy bunnies? You can see the difference in someone like Setlzer who has been able to assert herself as strong interviewer/host now over several events and has fulfilled a niche on the basis of her strong suits. It took time but I think Seltzer was largely able to disprove the stigma women first face entering the esports industry, we need more passionate hard-working women to overcome this bullshit and I think this undercurrent of misogyny can be finally put to rest.

I think simply put, everyone wants to see more girls involved in esports, but the current way tournaments have been trying to display a greater female influence feels awkward and pandering, if anything it hurts and puts girls back further because it confirms a stereotype that we all want to avoid.
joeschmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States167 Posts
July 19 2012 01:17 GMT
#412
Loved her, loved looking at her nudie pics. If Hugh Hefner wants to send more playboy models for sc2 events, groovy baby.
kUNImiTsu
Profile Joined December 2011
United States14 Posts
July 19 2012 01:32 GMT
#413
Whether you like it or not, incorporating attractive female talents will increase views and help promote esports. Are you NOT going to watch an event because it has a beautiful female co-host? Probably not. You'll watch anyways. Are some gamers going to tune in simply because there is a beautiful female in association with games, probably. It's simple business....At the end of the day women and men are not the same (should be concidered equal, but not the same) and not everything in life is fair. Everyone likes to see someone who is attractive (even if their definitions of attractive are not the same) over someone who is not attractive. Deal with it and stop raising social issues that will never change and should never change.
EAT...There is no RE.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
July 19 2012 01:39 GMT
#414
On July 19 2012 10:32 kUNImiTsu wrote:
Whether you like it or not, incorporating attractive female talents will increase views and help promote esports. Are you NOT going to watch an event because it has a beautiful female co-host? Probably not. You'll watch anyways. Are some gamers going to tune in simply because there is a beautiful female in association with games, probably. It's simple business....At the end of the day women and men are not the same (should be concidered equal, but not the same) and not everything in life is fair. Everyone likes to see someone who is attractive (even if their definitions of attractive are not the same) over someone who is not attractive. Deal with it and stop raising social issues that will never change and should never change.

This is a good point. The hard-core fans will alwways show up. To get the casual fan you have to inhance the live experience beyond just the game play that casual fans aren't enamored with.

Whether or not having beautiful women is the best way to attract casual fans and increase the fan base, I'm not sure, but all the other sports do it so why not try it.
joeschmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States167 Posts
July 19 2012 01:47 GMT
#415
I wouldn't be opposed to cheerleaders for teams, hot cheerleaders, smoking hot playboy model cheerleaders....yeah
Daitakk
Profile Joined November 2011
77 Posts
July 19 2012 01:49 GMT
#416
I cant believe you whiteknights are still droning on about this shit.

Have some self respect ffs.
Chris_SC
Profile Joined July 2012
Netherlands5 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 01:59:20
July 19 2012 01:54 GMT
#417
Personally I don't see a problem with hiring an attractive female host, it gets more attention and something people on TL love to talk about: Getting E-SPORTS into mainstream media, we just ave to make sure that they (assuming they don't have the knowledge about SCII) don't cast and we'll be just fine .
MooLen
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany501 Posts
July 19 2012 01:56 GMT
#418
the awkward moment when you misread females with shemales.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 19 2012 01:59 GMT
#419
vote with your eyes no with a response to a thread, the people who make decisions to do with dress code and hiring can see the relavent date from viewers, they will get it right eventually.

this fear of the scene looking 'immature' or something over our treatment of women is so stupid. sports around the world vary from treating them 'normally' to treating them like bags of meat, its this neurotic self analysis by random people that makes the scene look immature, not our 'use' of women.
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
July 19 2012 02:12 GMT
#420
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
July 19 2012 02:18 GMT
#421
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.
Drizzt3
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States189 Posts
July 19 2012 02:20 GMT
#422
On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


What society do you live in, sir?
"Before my time is done I will look down at your corpse and smile."-Brad Pitt (Achilles)
GhostFiber
Profile Joined January 2012
Australia88 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 02:22:55
July 19 2012 02:21 GMT
#423
A vocal minority will always look greater than a pleased majority.

I just noticed most of the comments here have no logical backup anyway, they merely express GREAT displeasure over something which is supposed to be fun, girls 'n dem gamez!

We should welcome super models, play bunnies, e-sport girls, it's all good news to me, no bias. I think it is very disappointing that people sit around arguing about peoples day-job and nitpicking at their experience or what clothes they wear over superstitions and grandparent logic.

The only thing I see with forum posts is they can destroy peoples confidence and make them not want to get involved, and make a company get scared about trying new interesting ideas due to the unknown backlash. It's really pathetic, because all these girls want to do is enjoy the fun and the gamez with you guys, but you are all too focused judging them with ridiculous unfounded nonsense.
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 19 2012 02:22 GMT
#424
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.

did someone spell her name wrong?

drama gets more attention then the winner of a tourny but the winner of NASL got alot more attention then the winner of recent tournaments
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
July 19 2012 02:23 GMT
#425
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 19 2012 02:32 GMT
#426
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
LamaMitHut
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany187 Posts
July 19 2012 02:40 GMT
#427
is there any girl live right now?
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
July 19 2012 02:40 GMT
#428
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


you need to treat females as equals

and by this i mean you needed to get lauren in one of those sumo suits
FrodaN
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
754 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 02:42:42
July 19 2012 02:41 GMT
#429
On July 19 2012 11:32 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.


Our set of hosts served two very different purposes.

One was to break down and help provide fresh insight to the games whenever they weren't casting on stage (Day9 and Soe). Those two worked splendidly together and they fulfilled the role exceptionally well. Sean takes the lead and Soe follows up. Sometimes Soe is trusted to lead discussion/interviews and Day9 is doing other stuff. It's a team and its great teamwork.

The other pair is to tend to the crowd. Clutch introduces, announces, and general interaction. Lauren is there too, except she is more assisting than in charge. Sometimes Lauren asks the question and adds a different dimension. She's also attractive and has a fun personality. They worked together as a team just like Day9/Soe.

Double hosting isn't bad at all. Oscars/Academy Awards, news anchoring, and many other areas of entertainment feature male/female combos that work well. I feel like everyone did their job and Lauren clearly got everyone's attention which was the main operative clause in getting her.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 19 2012 02:43 GMT
#430
On July 19 2012 11:32 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.


Personally, I was not aware, nor did I care that she was involved until this moronic thread came up saying that is was not good that she was involved. Then I felt the need to argue against how dumb that point is, since she did not detract from the event in any way. The argument basically boils down to "I don't think pretty girls should be paid to host events, even if they are the third or fourth host at the event. I fell like I am being pandered to if they exist at the event." If they had her walking around in her underwear or bathing suit, that would be pandering.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 02:46:36
July 19 2012 02:46 GMT
#431
On July 19 2012 11:40 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


you need to treat females as equals

and by this i mean you needed to get lauren in one of those sumo suits

only if they get Day[9] in one too

and Tastosis in one sumo suit
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
July 19 2012 02:46 GMT
#432
On July 19 2012 11:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:32 Xiphos wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.


Personally, I was not aware, nor did I care that she was involved until this moronic thread came up saying that is was not good that she was involved. Then I felt the need to argue against how dumb that point is, since she did not detract from the event in any way. The argument basically boils down to "I don't think pretty girls should be paid to host events, even if they are the third or fourth host at the event. I fell like I am being pandered to if they exist at the event." If they had her walking around in her underwear or bathing suit, that would be pandering.


Well Day[9] and various of others have shown their experiences and place in competitive gaming (fuck that esport term) and have worked their asses off to get to where they are today. And now some female who appeared on the show/event that don't even possess 1/2 of the knowledge as the veterans is hired. I personally do not feel that it is very much fair.

Earn the spot first.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Gerbilkit
Profile Joined December 2009
United States32 Posts
July 19 2012 02:47 GMT
#433
I have to just lol at this thread. You think esports will be ruined by attractive female hosts who aren't SC experts? Because obviously this has never happened before. *rolling eyes* Have you ever watched professional BW events (not just the replays). Look at this vod in the current OSL, skip to about 42 seconds in if you want to see what esports is already all about.

Mind you this is korean BW. Which is far more established successful and mature than anything SC2 has achieved yet.
It shall be engraved upon your soul!
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 19 2012 02:48 GMT
#434
On July 19 2012 11:46 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:43 Plansix wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:32 Xiphos wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.


Personally, I was not aware, nor did I care that she was involved until this moronic thread came up saying that is was not good that she was involved. Then I felt the need to argue against how dumb that point is, since she did not detract from the event in any way. The argument basically boils down to "I don't think pretty girls should be paid to host events, even if they are the third or fourth host at the event. I fell like I am being pandered to if they exist at the event." If they had her walking around in her underwear or bathing suit, that would be pandering.


Well Day[9] and various of others have shown their experiences and place in competitive gaming (fuck that esport term) and have worked their asses off to get to where they are today. And now some female who appeared on the show/event that don't even possess 1/2 of the knowledge as the veterans is hired. I personally do not feel that it is very much fair.

Earn the spot first.

so someones whos job in no way at all is related in any way to game knowledge should prove game knowledge first?

how about she proves shes a good host by being a good host not properly defending a 7 gate as zerg
discomatt
Profile Joined March 2012
113 Posts
July 19 2012 02:53 GMT
#435
She's there to get attention. This is no worse than a booth babe, which has become more than standard for any sort of convention.

Mad or not, she seems to have done her job.
SgtCoDFish
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1520 Posts
July 19 2012 02:57 GMT
#436
I really struggle to see how there's a discussion to be had here.

Present females how they want to be presented and how they can and should be presented. For Soe and Lauren, how they can and should be presented is very different and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just like you wouldn't stick Clutch on the post-game analysis couch while BitterDam beckon players onto the stage and ask how they feel. I'm not saying they couldn't do that role, but there's a clear place for them just like Clutch's role is clear.

Women are being treated like some mythical beast whose power needs to be harnessed for the power and glory of esports. Screw that, just put people where they shine.

Whether or not it was worth it to hire Lauren is a different question; I'd say it was well worth it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 03:00:43
July 19 2012 02:59 GMT
#437
On July 19 2012 11:46 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:43 Plansix wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:32 Xiphos wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


But yet she is still introduced.

Isn't the other host enough?

But I guess not because the event needs more viewers and in exchange, that's where the 'tits' part comes into play.


Personally, I was not aware, nor did I care that she was involved until this moronic thread came up saying that is was not good that she was involved. Then I felt the need to argue against how dumb that point is, since she did not detract from the event in any way. The argument basically boils down to "I don't think pretty girls should be paid to host events, even if they are the third or fourth host at the event. I fell like I am being pandered to if they exist at the event." If they had her walking around in her underwear or bathing suit, that would be pandering.


Well Day[9] and various of others have shown their experiences and place in competitive gaming (fuck that esport term) and have worked their asses off to get to where they are today. And now some female who appeared on the show/event that don't even possess 1/2 of the knowledge as the veterans is hired. I personally do not feel that it is very much fair.

Earn the spot first.


It is very unclear how someone "earns" the spot at an event. I know little to nothing about Clutch, with exception that he can do the "Boxing announcer" voice on command and knows how to hype a crowd. I didn't question his competitive gaming qualifications and just assumed he was there for a reason. The same went for Lauren and did not automatically assume that she was hired because she looked good. I do not assume an woman are hired for her looks.

This is my problem with every single one of these threads every time they appear. Members of the community demanding that women be "qualified" to be involved with events, even though they are only interviewing people or introducing players. The qualifications for interviewing are "can you hold a mic and ask questions in a friendly manner". And there would be no demand for qualification if a guy was preforming the interviews.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
mainerd
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States347 Posts
July 19 2012 03:16 GMT
#438
Not a big fan of hiring a pretty lady just for the sake of said prettiness, it IS a bit objectifying (NASL wouldn't hire a woman with little SC2 involvement to do Lauren's job unless they were nice to look at), but if someone like Lauren wants to step into the role willingly, then that's her choice. From a business perspective it makes sense to both the employer ("sex sells") and employee ($$$), but that doesn't mean it would exist in everyone's perfect world. I'd prefer someone genuinely interested and involved in the community with passion they wear on their sleeve for everyone to see. If they are a girl, and cute, well, that's a bonus.
"Let me tell you, in eSTRO we had some circle jerks, straight up. It wasn't pretty." -NonY
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
July 19 2012 03:17 GMT
#439
NASL wouldn't hire a woman with little SC2 involvement to do Lauren's job unless they were nice to look at


NOONE would hire a women to do Laurens job unless they were nice to look at

thats the whole reason you hire a host, if they look good and sound good then there good for the job
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
July 19 2012 03:25 GMT
#440
IMHO just as regular compatriots in gaming. Unless someone finds a reason why they're handicapped with respect to gaming and shows it to be substantial I don't see why we make such a big deal out of a girl-gamer. To me equality is the way to go.
kiss kiss fall in love
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 03:35:44
July 19 2012 03:30 GMT
#441
On July 19 2012 11:23 MrBitter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.


This argument would hold water if we didn't also have two other phenomenal hosts with a history in e-sports.


This. Lauren wasn't there taking someone else's role. She was there in addition to the other hosts. So please no more 'I'd prefer a host who can hold a 12 minute roach push' bullshit.

She had her own role - the hot hostess. It's not the first time this kind of thing has been done, nor will it be the last.

If you believe there are girls who think they are up for the job of hot hostess and do not object to being viewed as eye-candy, they should forward their applications to NASL.


Plus: Look at Clutch. He's one hell of a handsome guy. I'd say his social skills are a lot more important than his starcraft skills.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
July 19 2012 03:32 GMT
#442
I think I'd feel great about this thread if I were Lauren :O

22 pages of "omg Lauren is way too hot! Like, totally unreasonably hot!" Someone make sure she sees this thread!
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
July 19 2012 03:38 GMT
#443
On July 19 2012 12:32 Bibbit wrote:
I think I'd feel great about this thread if I were Lauren :O

22 pages of "omg Lauren is way too hot! Like, totally unreasonably hot!" Someone make sure she sees this thread!


I actually thinks she looked pretty average, which is why this thread gives me lulz. All this over an average looking hostess. Imagine if they got the bikinis out.
whatevername
Profile Joined June 2012
471 Posts
July 19 2012 03:43 GMT
#444
On July 19 2012 11:18 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The problem is that it's not good publicity. It feels more like "We wanted tits for viewers." and not "We're a genuine esports event with a good host."

The fact that some blonde is a bigger talking point than the winner at a tournament is horrible.
Who would it turn off? Us? We all watched it, most of us have watched all of NASL. Incoming players? Somehow I dont think they're as pretentious as you imagine them to be. The mainstream media? They're hostile anyways if they dont ignore us, hot women however would be totally in line with mainstream activities and wouldnt make them bat an eye. In fact something like this probably would.
89vision
Profile Joined September 2010
United States70 Posts
July 19 2012 04:10 GMT
#445
She is hot, good for her and good for esports. People like looking at hot people.

Soe is hot too, and I think a good host and caster.

There is room for everyone in esports.

Bring on the hot girls
An itch only a deadlift can scratch
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
July 19 2012 04:28 GMT
#446
On July 19 2012 12:30 Exia0276 wrote:
Plus: Look at Clutch. He's one hell of a handsome guy. I'd say his social skills are a lot more important than his starcraft skills.


Clutch is frickin' phenomenal. Not gonna lie, I'd rather listen to Clutch's enthusiastic interviews than see an alluring woman stumble over a Korean's handle. Give him a 3-day boot camp around Liquipedia, and he'll have the StarCraft knowledge to complement his social abilities.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
July 19 2012 05:38 GMT
#447
On July 19 2012 13:28 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 12:30 Exia0276 wrote:
Plus: Look at Clutch. He's one hell of a handsome guy. I'd say his social skills are a lot more important than his starcraft skills.


Clutch is frickin' phenomenal. Not gonna lie, I'd rather listen to Clutch's enthusiastic interviews than see an alluring woman stumble over a Korean's handle. Give him a 3-day boot camp around Liquipedia, and he'll have the StarCraft knowledge to complement his social abilities.


Yes and that's fine. Understand that this wasn't a choice of one or the other. NASL gave us both. It is this variety that appeals to a broad audience of different preferences. Let everyone like what they like, but don't go preaching to others about what they can or cannot like.

D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
July 19 2012 05:41 GMT
#448
I didn't catch the latest in NASL, so I just googled Lauren Elise and...OK I get the idea. In case you're asking, yes I saw the dailymotion videos. Moving on.

Something tells me that, behind the OP's original write-up is the negative thoughts behind what Lauren used to do and how her career path eventually came to the NASL.

There are people who judge others by their past career/job choices and it's not entirely fair. If Lauren just came out of nowhere and had no history with Playboy and so on, would this thread even exist?

I would take a guess and state that it would probably would not.
Canada
StarStrider
Profile Joined August 2011
United States689 Posts
July 19 2012 05:47 GMT
#449
I'm not a big fan of bringing a girl in simply because she looks good. She has to be some way related to gaming in general, or to the Esports scene, or specific to StarCraft 2. No one will respect her, and everyone will begin to scoff at her, which hurts her position and who she represents, after making initial generalizations about how hot she is of course. Bring girls in who are passionate about Esports or gaming competition, or even better, about StarCraft. I don't care how hot they are, simply having females represented in this way would be awesome. You can keep out girls brought in specifically to be crowd pleasers.

I just roll my eyes when I see them. I know there are alot of dudes out there who will be manipulated by hot babes toting gear and introducing players, but I wish it wasn't like that, so I'll cast my vote against it every time. I'm looking at you Dr. Pepper Girls at MLG.
Spontaneous Pneumothorax sucks, please keep MVP sC in your thoughts. sC fighting! 힘내세요
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 06:24:46
July 19 2012 06:05 GMT
#450
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
How the hell is there a 21 page topic on TL about Lauren?

The fact that you guys are discussing this at such length absolutely proves that hiring her was a great idea.

We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.


The Starcraft 2 community is probably the most intellectual community I've known, and I seek out intellectual communities. And this is because the game itself is intellectual. People spend a lot of time thinking about this game, and some crazy innovation comes out of peoples brains, it is really neat to see.

With that said, I'd much rather have a host who cares about the game. And to truly care about Starcraft, you really have to understand it (doesn't mean you have to be good at it...).

There really is no reason to bring eye candy into this. The game isn't designed to cater to the male audience in such a way that it makes us feel "manly" and needs to bring in women to objectify to help us feel "manly". If anything sitting at a computer playing a game is the opposite. So when I see these females hosts, I think "what are you doing you here?" then I think "oh you're getting paid because you couldn't get a better gig... sweet... now I have to listen to you pretend to care about this and show off your acting skills..." You can tell these people don't really care about Starcraft, they care about getting paid, and if something else paid better, they'd be all over it. Am I wrong? You know better than me, but I'm pretty sure I am correct. Like a used car salesmen, they'll say anything to sell the product, but only because they will paid. Maybe that is you too MrBitter, I don't know, but from what I've seen of your casting (and I enjoy your casting) you seem to care about the game a lot, and you do a good job of faking it if you are.

It is this "fakeness" that this community really doesn't need. Can you not hire real hosts?

And these fake hosts lead to awkward moments. I have no reason to "interact" with Lauren at the event (unless of course she really cares about Starcraft), I am married, but even if I wasn't, I don't enjoy fake people and I wouldn't want to date her or talk to her anyway. I don't like people who put on these shows so they can get paid. In fact I abhor them, and if you worked in the field I work in (mental health), you probably would too.

And I feel like this community isn't into that kind of stuff anyway. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is carefully gelling their hair and striving to be voted most popular at school, or get on the Jersey Shore or whatever other reality TV show. It just isn't what I am are interested in, and I think most people here see right through this garbage, and end up "putting up" with these kinds of hosts instead of being like "wow she is really hot, I want to interact with her!" Again I could be wrong.

But honestly I would be embarrassed to show some of these leagues to my wife or friends. You can cut the awkwardness with a knife. Having "eye candy" at the event just doesn't fit in, at all, and it is very apparent.

Finally, and worst, it is the degradation and objectification of women. This isn't the WWE, this is Starcraft, and it has an intellectual community, so we see it.

And if you don't think that is the case, then why hire her so she can be "hot"? Why couldn't you have hired her because she has vast knowledge of Starcraft, ect, ect... I don't watch the NASL to see women, I watch it because Starcraft gets my brain going. Women get a different part of me going, and trust me, if I want to get that part going, I will do something other than watch Starcraft.

Let's take E-sports seriously, not make a mockery of it. And let's support it by having hosts who know a lot about the game, who are truly passionate about it, and don't fake it. And then we are paying people who are Starcraft fans, and not people who are there only because it the best paying job at the moment, so we are lining the pockets of people who will in turn help grow E-sports more.

Because when it comes down to it, if E-sports starts to go south financially, the first people to bail will be all the fake people who were there to get a check. We don't need people in E-sports who see E-sports as a means to an end. We need people who see E-sports as the end. People who will be there, even if the money isn't.

Overall I am just very disappointed in your post.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 06:45:44
July 19 2012 06:41 GMT
#451
On July 19 2012 14:41 D_K_night wrote:
There are people who judge others by their past career/job choices and it's not entirely fair.

Why isnt it fair? If you choose poorly in the past your future life should be affected by it. Otherwise it teaches people that "taking the easy way instead of the right way" has no consequences and that leads to a worse society with lots more selfishness than we can afford.
Would you give Nick Leeson a job at a bank ignoring his past history?
Would you have a criminal become your financial manager?
...

Too many times people ignore past behaviour and dont punish others for it and this is bad for our society. The opposite is equally bad, so dont accuse me of proposing that, but there is a great need for deciding more with your brain instead of your emotion and "its not fair" is an emotional response made in a sandbox. Life isnt fair in any case, but punishing someone for taking the easy way is actually making it fairer for all of us who didnt take that way.

On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.

I despise any company or organization which tries to use "sex sells" as a means to an end. Thanks for making that clear about the NASL. We humans need to be better than that!
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 08:27:34
July 19 2012 08:26 GMT
#452
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.
SupplyBlockedTV
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Belgium313 Posts
July 19 2012 08:28 GMT
#453
The only thing that goes trough my head when i see a girl talking about starcraft who obviously does not know what she is talking about is: Shut up and show the game already.
PEW PEW PEW
Viktorin
Profile Joined June 2012
Switzerland59 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 08:36:34
July 19 2012 08:30 GMT
#454
On July 19 2012 15:41 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 14:41 D_K_night wrote:
There are people who judge others by their past career/job choices and it's not entirely fair.

Why isnt it fair? If you choose poorly in the past your future life should be affected by it. Otherwise it teaches people that "taking the easy way instead of the right way" has no consequences and that leads to a worse society with lots more selfishness than we can afford.
Would you give Nick Leeson a job at a bank ignoring his past history?
Would you have a criminal become your financial manager?
...

Too many times people ignore past behaviour and dont punish others for it and this is bad for our society. The opposite is equally bad, so dont accuse me of proposing that, but there is a great need for deciding more with your brain instead of your emotion and "its not fair" is an emotional response made in a sandbox. Life isnt fair in any case, but punishing someone for taking the easy way is actually making it fairer for all of us who didnt take that way.

Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 11:12 MrBitter wrote:
We brought her to Toronto for a very specific reason. She was there to look hot, to interact some with the fans, and to get people talking.

Mission accomplished on all points.

I despise any company or organization which tries to use "sex sells" as a means to an end. Thanks for making that clear about the NASL. We humans need to be better than that!


Guess what, we never will. "Sex sells" worked 160'000 years ago and will work till humanity ceases to exist. It's our nature.
Choko_Bambus
Profile Joined May 2010
Serbia15 Posts
July 19 2012 08:30 GMT
#455
present them naked

User was warned for this post
rave[wcr]
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1166 Posts
July 19 2012 08:43 GMT
#456
now that i think about it ailuj shld have done it. she was about as hot as that playboy girl plus the community knows her already
AlphaWhale
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia328 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 08:47:10
July 19 2012 08:44 GMT
#457
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


QFT.

The moment we stop asking these stupid questions we'll have our answer. Immaturity will always be around (writing essay after essay on gender equality in vidja games doesn't do anything for anybody). Starcraft requires a good mind and quick hands, not genitalia. On all fronts the whole subject needs to be dropped, fuck "all female teams" just be a team. The less attention you draw to it the less bullshit you have to deal with it.

It really feels like when there's a female bio/write up there's always this subtext of how much of a disability it is to be a female gamer. People think talking about how "tough it is to be a female gamer in a male dominated world" is doing them a favour when really it's keeping things at a standstill.

That being said if you want to use your sex to gain publicity, prepare for good and bad. But you're going to find celebrity worship/obsession anywhere and I'm sure there are many female players than want a name to live vicariously through just like guys have their favourite players.

And in regards to the OP, e-sports is show business. Attractive people and show business go hand in hand.
The icon for diamond league is actually a sapphire.
OneBaseKing
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Afghanistan412 Posts
July 19 2012 08:49 GMT
#458
You either have to be hot or be good at the game. for example, scarlett is.... known for her skills not her looks but she is doing decent in the sc2 community because of her skills. anna prosser, she is probably bronze but hey, she is hot, and she gets attention that way. megumi on the other hand, holy fucking shit, she's so hot and decent at the game
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
July 19 2012 08:51 GMT
#459
On July 19 2012 15:41 Rabiator wrote:
Would you have a criminal become your financial manager?


Pfft. That's standard practice here in the States.
snailz
Profile Joined April 2011
Croatia900 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 09:02:31
July 19 2012 08:56 GMT
#460
On July 19 2012 08:33 s1ege wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post


Scarlett is the most attractive looking SC2 woman I have ever seen ever on the internet. She has amazing SC2 skills as well as being aesthetically pleasing to anyone's eyes. I think she would benefit from being a host or caster for a tournament if she gets eliminated. She would be a hell of a lot better than Anna Prosser or CSN_Rachel or (lol) the blonde from NASL 3 in terms of looks and knowledge.


are you lying to yourself?

Scarlett is better looking than Rachel? i won't even get Anna involved in this...

like, really? O.O

edit: i originally thought this thread was about Sue, but after reading it (more than i should, honestly) i really dont see what the fuss is about. females throwing stuff and standing there for eye candy is done in korea, at lot of german sc events, and so on. if she was to take a role of Sue i would understand, nobody wants someone who's not profesional enough doing a (very) important job. but she wasn't, so it's a win-win. i think some people on TL are intimidated by women in general way too much. learn to embrace the vag boys, you'll be better off
"I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch." - intrigue
Qwyn
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2779 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 09:08:52
July 19 2012 09:06 GMT
#461
This whole topic is disgusting.

Even more so b/c I just finished watching Tasteless on Real Talk. Talk about witch hunts. Leave it alone ffs.

Pro-gaming isn't at the point where any of this matters. The moment we talk about this things all go to shit. Give it a fucking rest.

What's even more disgusting is the fact that you start off slingin' names. Who gives a flying shit about why she was there? She was hired to do her job, same as anyone else there.

Holy crap I'm so angry right now.

EDIT: Yeah reading it I can see I'm really, reeeeeeaaaaaaalllllllly angry.
-Holy shit - I want to spam swears so bad. Argh.
"Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0
Chrono000
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Korea (South)358 Posts
July 19 2012 09:27 GMT
#462
On July 19 2012 03:07 Leth0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 02:48 Chrono000 wrote:
I agree with the OP.

Its a joke how people think its a great idea having women just as beauty objects during events. Its really out of place right now and feels really forced.


Have you ever seen any boxing match or mma match. Those women are there purely for eye candy, and it's taken to another level by the fact they are only wearing bikini's. It has never hurt anyone. Not to mention the countless 'booth babes' and similar jobs that seem to have already set the precedent for such things in the gaming scene.

If having to look at an attractive women is so bothersome it's nobody but your own fault, nothing else really to say. How insecure does someone have to be to focus so hard on something that is so insignificant. You just gotta get over it.



are you kidding me, you cant compare the 2. Esports is such a different area. It looks totally out of place having super attractive women who know nothing about the game looking fake and pretending to care.

The last thing i want is esports to become like other sports with its hyper masculine mindlessness.

Personally I would like to keep sc2 real and putting a pretty face for the sake of a pretty face is not real.

There are many more younger women now growing up appreciating games and so I think women will more naturally be involved in the industry.

We don't need to inject a pretty face to legitimize this area.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
July 19 2012 09:45 GMT
#463
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.
EpidemicSC
Profile Joined January 2012
United States70 Posts
July 19 2012 09:49 GMT
#464
What sane heterosexual man would complain about having a fine-looking lady at a VIDEO GAME event?

I mean, being an intellectual is great and all but sometimes you just gotta think with your penis.
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
July 19 2012 13:10 GMT
#465
On July 19 2012 18:49 EpidemicSC wrote:
What sane heterosexual man would complain about having a fine-looking lady at a VIDEO GAME event?

I mean, being an intellectual is great and all but sometimes you just gotta think with your penis.


I'd rather watch an interview by Clutch or some high-level analysis by Artosis than stare at an attractive female fails multiple times as she tries to pronounce a Korean's ID. ...But that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
OneBaseKing
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Afghanistan412 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 13:20:01
July 19 2012 13:19 GMT
#466
On July 19 2012 17:56 snailz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 08:33 s1ege wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:58 Sc2Null wrote:
On July 19 2012 07:29 s1ege wrote:
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.


Scarlett won WCS Canada and she is one of the most good looking women I have seen in my life. She should cast because she obviously has the knowledge to do so and she would be helping out the community. She is such a great player and to see her cast would be delightful because she can take down great players like HuK or Demuslim.


1. Isn't scarlett a guy going through a procedure or something?
2. whether she/he is or isn't, she is not attractive (varies from person to person)

User was warned for this post


Scarlett is the most attractive looking SC2 woman I have ever seen ever on the internet. She has amazing SC2 skills as well as being aesthetically pleasing to anyone's eyes. I think she would benefit from being a host or caster for a tournament if she gets eliminated. She would be a hell of a lot better than Anna Prosser or CSN_Rachel or (lol) the blonde from NASL 3 in terms of looks and knowledge.


are you lying to yourself?

Scarlett is better looking than Rachel? i won't even get Anna involved in this...

like, really? O.O

edit: i originally thought this thread was about Sue, but after reading it (more than i should, honestly) i really dont see what the fuss is about. females throwing stuff and standing there for eye candy is done in korea, at lot of german sc events, and so on. if she was to take a role of Sue i would understand, nobody wants someone who's not profesional enough doing a (very) important job. but she wasn't, so it's a win-win. i think some people on TL are intimidated by women in general way too much. learn to embrace the vag boys, you'll be better off


He's trolling for fucks sakes dude (unless ur trolling too)
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 13:45 GMT
#467
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 13:49 GMT
#468
On July 19 2012 22:10 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 18:49 EpidemicSC wrote:
What sane heterosexual man would complain about having a fine-looking lady at a VIDEO GAME event?

I mean, being an intellectual is great and all but sometimes you just gotta think with your penis.


I'd rather watch an interview by Clutch or some high-level analysis by Artosis than stare at an attractive female fails multiple times as she tries to pronounce a Korean's ID. ...But that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


HIGH LEVEL ANALYSIS. Lol dude there are endless hours of content for your analysis pleasure available all over the web. NASL decided to add a bit of flair to their production by picking up lauren, cry about it some more. Also, "stare at an attractive female"? Thats sounds kinda creepy, how about you just watch and enjoy the show without overthinking it.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 13:52 GMT
#469
On July 19 2012 13:28 cLAN.Anax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 12:30 Exia0276 wrote:
Plus: Look at Clutch. He's one hell of a handsome guy. I'd say his social skills are a lot more important than his starcraft skills.


Clutch is frickin' phenomenal. Not gonna lie, I'd rather listen to Clutch's enthusiastic interviews than see an alluring woman stumble over a Korean's handle. Give him a 3-day boot camp around Liquipedia, and he'll have the StarCraft knowledge to complement his social abilities.



Holy crap, I just noticed you basically made the same post two pages in a row......QUIT overthinking it, dude. Also, Clutch doesnt really know anything about sc2, why are you not calling him out? Oh yeah he is a guy and does not intimidate you Im guessing.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 13:56 GMT
#470
Hurry up everybody, get on twitter and let Lauren know she is not welcome in our scene and that she is too hot and too clueless to ever be</sexism>
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
July 19 2012 14:10 GMT
#471
On July 19 2012 18:06 Qwyn wrote:
This whole topic is disgusting.

Even more so b/c I just finished watching Tasteless on Real Talk. Talk about witch hunts. Leave it alone ffs.

Pro-gaming isn't at the point where any of this matters. The moment we talk about this things all go to shit. Give it a fucking rest.

What's even more disgusting is the fact that you start off slingin' names. Who gives a flying shit about why she was there? She was hired to do her job, same as anyone else there.

Holy crap I'm so angry right now.

EDIT: Yeah reading it I can see I'm really, reeeeeeaaaaaaalllllllly angry.
-Holy shit - I want to spam swears so bad. Argh.



There is not a single witchhunt going on here. We are having a decent discussion, it just happens to be filled with redditors that think sexist jokes are funny.
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 14:13:53
July 19 2012 14:13 GMT
#472
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!
Tayar
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1439 Posts
July 19 2012 14:13 GMT
#473
This thread makes no sense at all.

If you want to argue that lauren elise did a shitty job as a host (i didn't pay attention and have no opinion) than make that argument.

If you want to argue that there was some more qualified candidate who actively pursued the position but was passed over for elise based on elise's looks, make that argument.

However, arguing that she shouldn't have been the host because she's attractive is just nonsense. Also, the assumption that hosts need to have detailed knowledge about what they're covering has no basis in fact, and is easily contradicted by watching virtually any event broadcast. Casters need game knowledge, hosts need to know how to conduct interviews, excite the crowd and transition between the different stages of the broadcast.
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 14:24 GMT
#474
On July 19 2012 23:13 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!




Hey, SMALLTIME people need jobs too. Im not whiteknighting for anybody because I KNOW she doesnt care what you or me have to say about this. Regardless, I just get sick of nerds nitpicking every single damn thing about a tournament. Lauren barely had any screen time let alone speaking time at all and yet people like you still get so upset. And trying to compare nasl and esports to "quality sports broadcasts" is beyond disingenuous, its wrong. Maybe do a little homework on the history of esports and the struggles people have gone through to make it what it is today. Every sport has humble beginings, and how are we to ever have knowledgeable attractive women hosts if you wont even give them a single fuckin chance to improve. The sc2 scene is filled with hardworking people who came from other games that did not deliver the numbers and audience our game enjoys today.

And your 'many people noticed and posted comment" is meaningless. NASL had 4000+ in the live audience and anywhere from 20,000 to 70,000 watching the stream, so a FEW people getting upset means that Lauren was an absolute success. Always the vocal minority, silent majority. You are wrong, deal with it.
joeschmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States167 Posts
July 19 2012 14:28 GMT
#475
On July 19 2012 22:56 stratmatt wrote:
Hurry up everybody, get on twitter and let Lauren know she is not welcome in our scene and that she is too hot and too clueless to ever be</sexism>


LOL

ALERT THE SPONSERS
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
July 19 2012 14:32 GMT
#476
Just to share a few of my experiences as a female journalist working in the Korean eSports scene - I generally found working with the domestic teams/managers and other journalists to be a rewarding experience despite the language issues. There was never any trouble from either the staff, managers, fans or players. I was also actively included in post-game/finals events, given access to plenty of additional resources, and I never encountered any negative language or behavior. (Aside from a few of the FPS players who were rather arrogant and un-cooperative at times.)

I've generally found that the only issues came when posting on TL.net (mainly comments about my appearance being ugly from a minority of immature posters. Which are nicely balanced out by those who praise my voice and work), and dealing with non-Korean esports journalists/players during international events. TBH, most of the people I worked with during those events (such as Estars in Seoul and Intel Extreme Masters) were polite, kind and hard-working. I did however, encounter a rather egocentric type who did the following;

~ Patronize my work.
~ Constantly go on about the gorgeous/easiness of the 'booth girls' and other promotional staff. (I actually love shooting these ladies, but I think it's unprofessional to keep mentioning how much you want to bang them whilst people are supposed to be working.)
~ Ignore or otherwise act impolitely around me to impress the attractive ladies.

This can be said of pretty much anywhere though. I highly doubt that if I'd involved myself in other aspects of sporting journalism I *wouldn't* have encountered the same type of person.

I genuinely think that being attractive might have opened more doors for me during my time working in eSports. However, I don't believe it is better to be known for how pretty you are than to be appreciated for your dedication, hard-work and skills. I actually feel equally as sorry for any women who receive negative remarks about their looks in an eSports related environment *and* those who are considered attractive, but are not also lauded for their work.

In relation to hosting I think finding a balance is the key to introducing female hosts. Susie, is imo a good example of this - an intelligent lady who did her best to bring developing knowledge (and personality) to her co-caster role, but who also fulfils the need for an attractive female presence to lure in the mainly male demographic of eSports fans (Haha, Susie if you find this I'm bigging you up here.)

Things do seem to be changing gradually, and it's interesting to see all the various opinions floating around out there. I'm not actively involved in eSports any longer, but I'd like to think that other women won't see it as a daunting male-centric fandom into which they won't be welcomed. That's definitely a misconception. Despite my run-ins with certain members of TL.net in the past, the majority of posters and fans whom I've met in person were lovely :D
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
karpo
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1998 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 14:37:11
July 19 2012 14:35 GMT
#477
On July 19 2012 23:24 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 23:13 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!




Hey, SMALLTIME people need jobs too. Im not whiteknighting for anybody because I KNOW she doesnt care what you or me have to say about this. Regardless, I just get sick of nerds nitpicking every single damn thing about a tournament. Lauren barely had any screen time let alone speaking time at all and yet people like you still get so upset. And trying to compare nasl and esports to "quality sports broadcasts" is beyond disingenuous, its wrong. Maybe do a little homework on the history of esports and the struggles people have gone through to make it what it is today. Every sport has humble beginings, and how are we to ever have knowledgeable attractive women hosts if you wont even give them a single fuckin chance to improve. The sc2 scene is filled with hardworking people who came from other games that did not deliver the numbers and audience our game enjoys today.

And your 'many people noticed and posted comment" is meaningless. NASL had 4000+ in the live audience and anywhere from 20,000 to 70,000 watching the stream, so a FEW people getting upset means that Lauren was an absolute success. Always the vocal minority, silent majority. You are wrong, deal with it.


You're hilarious. You argue stuff i never mentioned and attribute emotions and opinions to me that i never felt/had. We could get knowledgeable attractive female hosts if tournaments promoted women from the gaming community instead of just hiring pretty ladies who, probably, have no interest in gaming whatsoever.

Now, because of you, i've spend more time than i'd like on this. My opinion is that we need more active INTERESTED women hosting/casting/presenting SC2, not a random hot woman hired mainly on looks.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 14:40:18
July 19 2012 14:38 GMT
#478
On July 19 2012 23:35 karpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 23:24 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 23:13 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!




Hey, SMALLTIME people need jobs too. Im not whiteknighting for anybody because I KNOW she doesnt care what you or me have to say about this. Regardless, I just get sick of nerds nitpicking every single damn thing about a tournament. Lauren barely had any screen time let alone speaking time at all and yet people like you still get so upset. And trying to compare nasl and esports to "quality sports broadcasts" is beyond disingenuous, its wrong. Maybe do a little homework on the history of esports and the struggles people have gone through to make it what it is today. Every sport has humble beginings, and how are we to ever have knowledgeable attractive women hosts if you wont even give them a single fuckin chance to improve. The sc2 scene is filled with hardworking people who came from other games that did not deliver the numbers and audience our game enjoys today.

And your 'many people noticed and posted comment" is meaningless. NASL had 4000+ in the live audience and anywhere from 20,000 to 70,000 watching the stream, so a FEW people getting upset means that Lauren was an absolute success. Always the vocal minority, silent majority. You are wrong, deal with it.


You're hilarious. You argue stuff i never mentioned and attribute emotions and opinions to me that i never felt/had. We could get knowledgeable attractive female hosts if tournaments promoted women from the gaming community instead of just hiring pretty ladies who, probably, have no interest in gaming whatsoever.

Now, because of you, i've spend more time than i'd like on this. My opinion is that we need more active INTERESTED women hosting/casting/presenting SC2, not a random hot woman hired mainly on looks.


Does it matter that she was not interested (or is, and we dont know)? Her job was to do other stuff there. So where exactly is the problem? Is camera man interested? Is the venue personnel interested? Do we care about them?
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 14:43 GMT
#479
On July 19 2012 23:38 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 23:35 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 23:24 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 23:13 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!




Hey, SMALLTIME people need jobs too. Im not whiteknighting for anybody because I KNOW she doesnt care what you or me have to say about this. Regardless, I just get sick of nerds nitpicking every single damn thing about a tournament. Lauren barely had any screen time let alone speaking time at all and yet people like you still get so upset. And trying to compare nasl and esports to "quality sports broadcasts" is beyond disingenuous, its wrong. Maybe do a little homework on the history of esports and the struggles people have gone through to make it what it is today. Every sport has humble beginings, and how are we to ever have knowledgeable attractive women hosts if you wont even give them a single fuckin chance to improve. The sc2 scene is filled with hardworking people who came from other games that did not deliver the numbers and audience our game enjoys today.

And your 'many people noticed and posted comment" is meaningless. NASL had 4000+ in the live audience and anywhere from 20,000 to 70,000 watching the stream, so a FEW people getting upset means that Lauren was an absolute success. Always the vocal minority, silent majority. You are wrong, deal with it.


You're hilarious. You argue stuff i never mentioned and attribute emotions and opinions to me that i never felt/had. We could get knowledgeable attractive female hosts if tournaments promoted women from the gaming community instead of just hiring pretty ladies who, probably, have no interest in gaming whatsoever.

Now, because of you, i've spend more time than i'd like on this. My opinion is that we need more active INTERESTED women hosting/casting/presenting SC2, not a random hot woman hired mainly on looks.


Does it matter that she was not interested (or is, and we dont know)? Her job was to do other stuff there. So where exactly is the problem? Is camera man interested? Is the venue personnel interested? Do we care about them?



Lol, I bet the nasl sound guy absolutely LOVES esports and starcraft 2, too bad he isnt any good at sound. Different people, different roles. NASL already had numerous casters and personalities with knowledge of the game, so they added Lauren to bring the heat. NBD. Are you actually trying to say that Soe was knowledgeable enough about the game to be there? because personally I found her knowledge to be lacking. Despite that, I liked her role and hope to see her back as well!
Exia0276
Profile Joined January 2012
Hong Kong62 Posts
July 19 2012 14:57 GMT
#480
Jeez, she was there to hand out prizes. Does she even have know Raynor's middle name to do that? (And actually she does know)
InfernoStarcraft
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia136 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 15:39:31
July 19 2012 14:59 GMT
#481
MOD EDIT: NO PORN
like this

User was warned for this post
I like Hello Panda's
Kznn
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil9072 Posts
July 19 2012 15:03 GMT
#482
^
....................................................
I'm at fucking work TT
archonOOid
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1983 Posts
July 19 2012 15:17 GMT
#483
almost all video games displays some form of sexism as men are more than likely to be the big muscular rambo type and portraying women with unnaturally curved bodies. so i it's no wonder that the guys running the tournaments are either unconsciously influenced by video games or consciously reproducing the images seen in video games in the off line events as way to sell tickets.
I'm Quotable (IQ)
Viktorin
Profile Joined June 2012
Switzerland59 Posts
July 19 2012 15:40 GMT
#484
On July 18 2012 21:41 Viktorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:43 mostevil wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with the crowd. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.

She's grade A at dodging creepy advances from popular community figures too.
Personally, I don't like watching ugly people generally, male or female. But by the same measure I'm not entirely comfortable with someone being there who's only purpose is to look pretty, especially if its in a host/interviewer role.
However I think alot of the community just like to see "guys like themselves", which might in part explain the general misogyny of the community and popularity of angry or geeky awkward type characters whom I personally find few qualities in.


Please elaborate. Who made creepy advances?


Bump

Link to video please.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 16:04:58
July 19 2012 15:48 GMT
#485
On July 20 2012 00:40 Viktorin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 21:41 Viktorin wrote:
On July 18 2012 11:43 mostevil wrote:
On July 18 2012 10:35 mierin wrote:
I think Soe's doing a pretty good job at being a female in esports...hot, decently knowledgeable about the game, and interacts well with the crowd. Here's hoping for more characters like her to pop up.

She's grade A at dodging creepy advances from popular community figures too.
Personally, I don't like watching ugly people generally, male or female. But by the same measure I'm not entirely comfortable with someone being there who's only purpose is to look pretty, especially if its in a host/interviewer role.
However I think alot of the community just like to see "guys like themselves", which might in part explain the general misogyny of the community and popularity of angry or geeky awkward type characters whom I personally find few qualities in.


Please elaborate. Who made creepy advances?


Bump

Link to video please.



she worked out kennigit was a douche in under 10 minutes :D

On July 19 2012 23:38 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 23:35 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 23:24 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 23:13 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 22:45 stratmatt wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:45 karpo wrote:
On July 19 2012 17:26 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Whole thread is about:

Do i feel insecure when i see hot girl interacting with male audience?

If yes, proceed on some ripping on senseless things that have no impact on reality, or business practices. Or better - get some serious stuff to do and insecurity will vanish.

If no, proceed with your happy life.


What an amazing analysis. Or maybe it's just that people don't enjoy watching clueless washed up acresses/models/playboy girls at tournaments. There's quite alot of women that are actually interested in gaming and SC2 so why not use that instead?

I laughed out loud when i found out NASL hired a ex playboy girl. It's just so out of place somehow.



Clueless? Washed up? You sure sound sexist to me. Just admit it, you have no respect for a woman with a great body that is not afraid to show it off. If its not because you are completely jealous you could never date such a girl(and you KNOW thats true) its because well, uh, that must be why lol. Lauren works pretty fuckin hard to maintain maintain her figure I'd imagine, so its not like 'looking good' is some kinda trait only a few people are born with. You have to work at it. So it just seems odd that you thought about this so much you needed to post about it and defend yourself. Time to get over your own insecurites rather than push them onto others. There are MANY jobs in the industry besides hosting that both men and women can and will do, so the idea that sc2 girls should only be hosts is a bit sexist as well. I mean, its not like you recognized the work of any women behind the scenes.


It's quite obvious that a more successful actress/model would not do a smalltime SC2 tournament gig. I'm used to watching quality sports broadcasts where the women who present or host shows are involved with the sport and know alot about the players and teams. Just because i prefer that approach does it mean i'm jealous of Lauren?

I never said anything about her not working hard to look good, why bring that up?

I didn't need to think about it much as it's a simple fucking thing that many people noticed and mentioned in the live report threads. I typed a response here in a few seconds.

I never said all girls should be host nor did i even mention women that work behind the scenes. You need to calm down and stop imagining things.

Edit: 4 post in a row, white knight levels are increasing!




Hey, SMALLTIME people need jobs too. Im not whiteknighting for anybody because I KNOW she doesnt care what you or me have to say about this. Regardless, I just get sick of nerds nitpicking every single damn thing about a tournament. Lauren barely had any screen time let alone speaking time at all and yet people like you still get so upset. And trying to compare nasl and esports to "quality sports broadcasts" is beyond disingenuous, its wrong. Maybe do a little homework on the history of esports and the struggles people have gone through to make it what it is today. Every sport has humble beginings, and how are we to ever have knowledgeable attractive women hosts if you wont even give them a single fuckin chance to improve. The sc2 scene is filled with hardworking people who came from other games that did not deliver the numbers and audience our game enjoys today.

And your 'many people noticed and posted comment" is meaningless. NASL had 4000+ in the live audience and anywhere from 20,000 to 70,000 watching the stream, so a FEW people getting upset means that Lauren was an absolute success. Always the vocal minority, silent majority. You are wrong, deal with it.


You're hilarious. You argue stuff i never mentioned and attribute emotions and opinions to me that i never felt/had. We could get knowledgeable attractive female hosts if tournaments promoted women from the gaming community instead of just hiring pretty ladies who, probably, have no interest in gaming whatsoever.

Now, because of you, i've spend more time than i'd like on this. My opinion is that we need more active INTERESTED women hosting/casting/presenting SC2, not a random hot woman hired mainly on looks.


Does it matter that she was not interested (or is, and we dont know)? Her job was to do other stuff there. So where exactly is the problem? Is camera man interested? Is the venue personnel interested? Do we care about them?


time will tell if she is really interested in ESPORTS or not, after previous nasl lindsey sporror said she loved it, but that turned out to be a pile of poop as she hasnt been in ESPORTS since. but this lauren lady managed to get kicked in the head by a french man and still says shes interested so its worth giving her a chance at least before everyone rules her out as just using the sex appeal or whatever.
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
July 19 2012 15:50 GMT
#486
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.
Figgy
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 15:57:55
July 19 2012 15:56 GMT
#487
I had absolutely no issues at all with the NASL or any of the staff they chose to have at the finals. The finals were spectacular. Soe was a great host, you don't need to have amazing knowledge of SC2 to be good as hosting or giving interviews and having some eye candy is a plus in any major event especially one as big as the NASL finals.

What I do have an issue with, is having people like Kelly as a Code A caster with an English accent that makes it impossible to understand her and extremely lacking knowledge solely because they are female.

Eye candy is fine, as long as they do the rest of their job decently as well imo.
Bug Fixes Fixed an issue where, when facing a SlayerS terran, completing a hatchery would cause a medivac and 8 marines to randomly spawn nearby and attack it.
NewbieOne
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Poland560 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 16:01:31
July 19 2012 16:00 GMT
#488
I think this poster is spot-on (kudos):

On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.


Just act like she's not female. I don't mean treat her like a guy, she's still a lady, just don't act weird, don't let your mind wander and your speech or act reflect that. The business world has learnt this, e-sports can also.

For the record, nothing wrong mentioning that a specific lady caster or player is eye candy (if she really is). I suppose things would be similar for a male caster in a more girly genre. Thing is, the eye candy shouldn't be more important than the person (which includes skill, achievements etc.).

Besides, if you dress a girl in normal-sized jeans for her, a normal t-shirt, a hoodie maybe, let alone give her a baseball cap and not a ton of make-up or catwalk act, even a pretty one won't be so distracting and won't make you wonder. Just look at how actual female players act, talk, walk etc. Basically like a classmate you'd go to a cyber cafe with to play games.

I think the key here is not to objectify women by throwing on them all the starvation of a nerdy crowd, some of the members of which don't have superb social skills, aren't noticed much by women, spend time playing computer games rather than socialising and so are starved for contact with a female being (except instead of meaningful contact it often becomes a more physiological kind of deprivation). Which is something women don't need or deserve to deal with.

Basically, a lady gamer or host should not be made into a fetish to fulfil some lacks in a starved young male gamer's life. Because she's a person, not a thing (let alone toy). She's there to play or cast, not to provide a sexual buzz to someone starved for some.

Disclaimer: This is not targeted at anybody specific and does not reflect any specific person, I did not have any named person or even category of persons in mind when writing this. Just in case somebody got the wrong idea.
SHOOG
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1639 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 16:05:19
July 19 2012 16:03 GMT
#489
I have no problems with a women being apart of any aspects of tournaments. Even if it's the hottest women alive; all I ask is that they have some knowledge of what their talking about. I'm not calling out anyone in particular but in general. If they have someone be apart of hosting a SC2 event I want them to know what their talking about; man or woman.
h41fgod
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden377 Posts
July 19 2012 16:04 GMT
#490
On July 20 2012 00:50 BeeNu wrote:
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.

Excuse us for wanting to make it right and not have ring girls. We are in a unique position to make a conscious decision on how our sport is portrayed.
polyphonyEX
Profile Joined May 2012
United States2539 Posts
July 19 2012 16:08 GMT
#491
Sexuality in media is part of life. Get over it.
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
July 19 2012 16:09 GMT
#492
On July 20 2012 01:04 h41fgod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 00:50 BeeNu wrote:
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.

Excuse us for wanting to make it right and not have ring girls. We are in a unique position to make a conscious decision on how our sport is portrayed.


People outside ESPORTS won't judge your precious little world because there are a few pretty girls.
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
July 19 2012 16:10 GMT
#493
On July 20 2012 01:04 h41fgod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 00:50 BeeNu wrote:
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.

Excuse us for wanting to make it right and not have ring girls. We are in a unique position to make a conscious decision on how our sport is portrayed.


You are actually not in any position, you are just a stream watcher with no actual input other than what you post in pointless internet threads. NASL had tens of thousands of viewers. Lauren will be back, and those who are mature enough to handle looking at a beautiful woman without getting jealous or anxious will gladly tune in. Maybe its just some more typical anti-american sentiment from you swedes. All I ever hear about is how swedish women are sooooooo hot from you guys. Well, guess what, America has hot girls too, and a lot more of em.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 16:25:45
July 19 2012 16:14 GMT
#494
On July 20 2012 01:08 polyphonyEX wrote:
Sexuality in media is part of life. Get over it.


I'm sorry, but what kind of argument is this? The obvious response to that line of thinking is to continue to bring up increasingly terrible things that are wrong, but a part of life, and question the one making the argument by asking them if they think people should just get over these things. Child soldiers are part of life too, should we get over it? If so, child molestation is a part of life, should we get over it? How bad do I need to make it for you give up that line of thinking?

Do I need to continue? That argument is terrible, justifying things because they are a "part of life" is wrong regardless if it is dealing with sexuality in media or the exploitation of children. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and simply the existence of something in life does not make it right.


On July 20 2012 01:09 Linwelin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 01:04 h41fgod wrote:
On July 20 2012 00:50 BeeNu wrote:
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.

Excuse us for wanting to make it right and not have ring girls. We are in a unique position to make a conscious decision on how our sport is portrayed.


People outside ESPORTS won't judge your precious little world because there are a few pretty girls.


Except they will.
McRoG
Profile Joined May 2012
Australia13 Posts
July 19 2012 16:26 GMT
#495
One thing that bothers me is when they have females trying to cast, it's never had the sound right to me. They generally don't have the right level of game-knowledge, excitement, banter, humor or charisma that a male caster has & to be frank it's painful to watch.

Where females do shine is hosting & doing interviews. Anna Prosser has been awesome at IPL and should get more opportunities to host other events while Seltzer also basically produces the best content interviews out there.

It might be harsh to say but until they can bring something to the table (like Tastosis/Day9/Dj Wheat etc) they can't be a big involvement in the show and need to just be a side attraction or someone with a purpose.
Dyme
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany523 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 16:30:15
July 19 2012 16:29 GMT
#496
"How to present females in the SCII-community?"

The question already seems funny. It seems to imply "females are not part of the community" "how shall we present those ominous females?".

I would just say we are honest with ourselves and treat them like the pretty [something between object and human being] that they are to us. Just like in advertising or basically everywhere where women do something in a 90%+ male community.

That is, till they actually have something substantial to say.

PS: I really liked Lauren Elise. She didn't do much Starcraft content wise, but she was pretty. She also didn't provoke as many hilarious awkward situations as Lindsey Sporrer, but well, she provided some form of entertainment anyways. Better than MLG music in breaks at the very least.
GreggSauce
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States566 Posts
July 19 2012 16:34 GMT
#497
Why is this going on still? Bring more women in, some with knowledge, some without, and clothe them accordingly so we can be interested in whatever they have to say.

Sex sells but so does cute with the same interests.

wtf
Must not sleep, must warn others
Pimpmuckl
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany528 Posts
July 19 2012 18:36 GMT
#498
So much hate, dafuq, i mean yes ZvG was damn fail but get over it, laugh over it and it's ok,
you have about a dozen other guys hosting/commentating/doing whatever for your high level analysis.

Although some commentators barely have more clue than Lauren Elise and don't get shit on like this.
twitter.com/pimpmuckl
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 18:51:13
July 19 2012 18:46 GMT
#499
I am surprised this is even an issue. Lauren was great, she added to the vibe at NASL3 Finals. Hopefully she will be back.

Beautiful women exist, and that is a great part of life. I hardly see how having some involved in SC2 tournaments is a bad thing at all. All she was doing was interacting with the crowd to keep them occupied in between games and also giving away free stuff from the sponsors. She was perfectly fine at doing that. She hardly needs to be Code S Level pro-gamer to do that.

If the community is to grow it should strive to be inclusive and not judgemental and resistant to newcomers to the scene. Believe it or not, beautiful women ARE people too. We should welcome them into the community and not create stupid threads like this.
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 19:00:36
July 19 2012 18:57 GMT
#500
Any extra-ordinary mention of a human being based upon his/her gender is sexism. I really despise this special treatment given to people based upon their gender rather than their skill. People who create/support these threads are the same hypocrits that shed tears when they encounter a case of sexism while ironcally fully supporting it on other fronts.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
July 19 2012 19:08 GMT
#501
On July 20 2012 03:36 Pimpmuckl wrote:
Although some commentators barely have more clue than Lauren Elise and don't get shit on like this.

Like who?
Cirqueenflex
Profile Joined October 2010
499 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 19:34:44
July 19 2012 19:33 GMT
#502
seriously, i'm getting sick of how "ESPORTS" is more and more turning into a religion. Not only with witch hunts, blind and unreasonable behaviour "to not hurt ESPORTS", "to help ESPORTS" and other ridiculous stuff (as if you could hurt ESPORTS, when SC2 is only a really small part of a much richer scene than you could imagine), but also with bashing people. Be it because they are not clearly as fanatic (no pun intended) or involved as you wish them to be, be it because you don't like their opinion, be it because they are only in diamond league and dare to say anything on the strategy forums. Every day people get mistreated because of those reasons, and speaking long term they "hurt ESPORTS" way more than someone not turning off their Ad-Block on TL.
Sure tournament hosts are somewhat representive of the sport when someone really watches SC2 for the first time on that event, but even so, i do honestly believe the girl did a pretty good job considering she had no clue whatsoever beforehand. She did deliver overall hosting, and she did well, and she never needed to give you pseudo-insight or wrong analysis, as many casters jump the gun trying to bring you the full truth when they can't even fully see the picture themselves.
And by bitching not only about her being only there to host, but also on the representation of females in SC2, you alienate not-SC2-involved-people even more. Good job on that.
Give a man a fire, you keep him warm for a night. Set a man on fire, and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.
StayFrosty
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada743 Posts
July 19 2012 19:37 GMT
#503
Then what should we do with Scarlett???
Komistic
Profile Joined June 2011
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-19 19:39:03
July 19 2012 19:38 GMT
#504
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
July 19 2012 19:48 GMT
#505
On July 20 2012 04:38 Komistic wrote:


Best post in this entire thread if you ask me...
FoTG fighting!
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
July 19 2012 20:21 GMT
#506
On July 18 2012 22:49 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.

This is why you're alone.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
cLAN.Anax
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States2847 Posts
July 19 2012 23:05 GMT
#507
On July 19 2012 22:49 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 22:10 cLAN.Anax wrote:
On July 19 2012 18:49 EpidemicSC wrote:
What sane heterosexual man would complain about having a fine-looking lady at a VIDEO GAME event?

I mean, being an intellectual is great and all but sometimes you just gotta think with your penis.


I'd rather watch an interview by Clutch or some high-level analysis by Artosis than stare at an attractive female fails multiple times as she tries to pronounce a Korean's ID. ...But that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


HIGH LEVEL ANALYSIS. Lol dude there are endless hours of content for your analysis pleasure available all over the web. NASL decided to add a bit of flair to their production by picking up lauren, cry about it some more. Also, "stare at an attractive female"? Thats sounds kinda creepy, how about you just watch and enjoy the show without overthinking it.


What else do you think people would/were supposed to do with her there? Discuss the strategies Stephano used to 4-0wn Alicia? ('¬_¬)

On July 19 2012 22:52 stratmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 13:28 cLAN.Anax wrote:
On July 19 2012 12:30 Exia0276 wrote:
Plus: Look at Clutch. He's one hell of a handsome guy. I'd say his social skills are a lot more important than his starcraft skills.


Clutch is frickin' phenomenal. Not gonna lie, I'd rather listen to Clutch's enthusiastic interviews than see an alluring woman stumble over a Korean's handle. Give him a 3-day boot camp around Liquipedia, and he'll have the StarCraft knowledge to complement his social abilities.



Holy crap, I just noticed you basically made the same post two pages in a row......QUIT overthinking it, dude. Also, Clutch doesnt really know anything about sc2, why are you not calling him out? Oh yeah he is a guy and does not intimidate you Im guessing.


Holy crud, I just noticed you QUADRUPLE posted!! USE the "Edit" function, dude. [/RIBBING] (*shrug*) I tend to overthink. That's just who I am. Big deal, lol....

I did mention Clutch's setback: he's superb socially, but he could really brush up on his StarCraft snuff. The fact that he is male has nothing to do with it, and I'm certainly not intimidated by him or any other female that works this occupation in the eSports industry. Clutch exudes an enthusiasm in his actions and speech that I've not found in any female in the same line of work in eSports that I've seen thus far; that's merely an empirical observation on my part.
┬─┬___(ツ)_/¯ 彡┻━┻ I am the 4%. "I cant believe i saw ANAL backwards before i saw the word LAN." - Capped
Heavenlee
Profile Joined April 2012
United States966 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 01:14:14
July 20 2012 00:53 GMT
#508
On July 20 2012 01:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 01:08 polyphonyEX wrote:
Sexuality in media is part of life. Get over it.


I'm sorry, but what kind of argument is this? The obvious response to that line of thinking is to continue to bring up increasingly terrible things that are wrong, but a part of life, and question the one making the argument by asking them if they think people should just get over these things. Child soldiers are part of life too, should we get over it? If so, child molestation is a part of life, should we get over it? How bad do I need to make it for you give up that line of thinking?

Do I need to continue? That argument is terrible, justifying things because they are a "part of life" is wrong regardless if it is dealing with sexuality in media or the exploitation of children. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and simply the existence of something in life does not make it right.


Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 01:09 Linwelin wrote:
On July 20 2012 01:04 h41fgod wrote:
On July 20 2012 00:50 BeeNu wrote:
You can tell this community is full of children because discussions like this actually still take place, it's cute I guess.

Excuse us for wanting to make it right and not have ring girls. We are in a unique position to make a conscious decision on how our sport is portrayed.


People outside ESPORTS won't judge your precious little world because there are a few pretty girls.


Except they will.


I'm sorry, but what kind of argument is this? At the risk of sounding massively condescending, get out of your house and stop being a prude. You act like sexuality in the media is a bad thing in the first place, it isn't. Hot women are nice to look at. Any socially well-adjusted, normal person should have no problem looking at an attractive woman for the sake of looking at an attractive woman.

I like going to my pool on a nice day and seeing good looking girls there, I like going to parties and interacting with girls there that, while potentially brainless, are hot and nice to talk to. Try it out some time. As a college student I also fit into the demographic that esports is trying to reach out to the most, and I can't imagine any single person I know looking at Lauren Elise and going "wait, they have a hot girl at this event? LOOK AT THIS BLATANT SEXISM, ESPORTS IS A FRAUD." Not a single person would ever care. Acting like you serve some mature, higher calling to make this community a sensible place is just a mask for your strange, chaste thinking that should be kept to yourself.

Comparing having Lauren as a host to child molestation...is just the stupidest, most thoughtless slippery slope argument imaginable. Just stop, this thread needs to end. You aren't a crusader for women's rights, a defender of equality and justice, or attempting to make this community grow, you're just being strange. Unfortunately, for any medium sized community there will be a few vocal outliers that will literally make a big deal out of anything they can find a way to be offended by.
Ramanujan
Profile Joined April 2012
137 Posts
July 20 2012 02:47 GMT
#509
On July 20 2012 05:21 crocodile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 22:49 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.

This is why you're alone.


Nah. I'm alone because I'm ugly and smart, and women don't like that.
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
July 20 2012 04:06 GMT
#510
On July 20 2012 11:47 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 05:21 crocodile wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:49 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.

This is why you're alone.


Nah. I'm alone because I'm ugly and smart, and women don't like that.

No. You're ugly, stupid, and a misogynistic pig. That's what women don't like about you.

User was banned for this post.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
intense555
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States474 Posts
July 20 2012 04:18 GMT
#511
On July 18 2012 08:03 mrtomjones wrote:
The day a really good looking female achieves something in SC based on her play is the day she will have a bright future as a part of the commentating/host side of the events.

Every sport in the world has people involved who never achieved anything. Deal with it. Not every aspect of hosting requires SC knowledge really either.

Ailuj........... She got diamond and was streamed losing to Losira at an MLG. :/
Aspiring Starcraft 2 pro for @mYinsanityEU, follow me on twitter @mYintenseSC
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
July 20 2012 04:20 GMT
#512
I think we need to kind of disregard some of what Kennigit said and embrace the fact that other than putting the camera shots in frame better and maybe dressing the players better, that the hot chicks will always steal the show. The fact is that pretty people attract attention, we could get ugly girls, but would that make much sense? No the idea at its core is supposed to do exactly what it is doing. If we do not do that, then we need girl players, but that will not happen for quite a while, lets be honest here. We have some girls in the community, none of which would really be amazing or show stealing casters, but our community wants diversity and the best and that just doesn't happen.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 04:36:29
July 20 2012 04:33 GMT
#513
As SC2 and other "e-sports" get big, are you really surprised to see them turn more into mainstream shows? Maybe you shake your collective heads at cheerleaders, racy music videos, and American Apparel too.
See: Stargirls


But the people who for whatever reason care about M/F equality make a big deal out of it. It happens in everything male-dominated, because it gets more views. Maybe it was a bad call having her talk, though, with no knowledge on the subject. That deserves to be called out. But not her gender, because the reason is honestly obvious to all of us, why press the topic? After all, there've been pretty bad hosts regardless of gender. (Remember the dreamhack dude?)
Lokian
Profile Joined March 2010
United States699 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 05:09:35
July 20 2012 04:54 GMT
#514
I would like it if there were stargirls for western eye-candy. I can't deny watching a manly game such as starcraft with some pretty attractive girls would be delightful and worth it even when the starcraft is like code A or something.

Even as a competitor, I would love to get some pictures with some hot stargirls instead of what seems to be a sausagefest.

More girls in the scene just makes it better for everyone. I get that supporting and even spotlighting some girls that are decent at the game over guys at the same calibre is unfair. And maybe making it a big deal will be detrimental to the morale of female competitors... but I still think a certain amount of spotlighting is needed to stimulate an increase of female competitors. Media and coverage can do wonders in changing cultures and in its current state, females are actually disadvantaged due to social stigmas and lack of rolemodels. If you want equality, promoting more female gamers in the scene is a great way to start.
Watch my gaming channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/BedinSpace
ZeaLL
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada53 Posts
July 20 2012 05:17 GMT
#515
I was at NASL, spoke to Lauren and observed her over the weekend at the event. You honestly can't help but stare at her she was gorgeous.

She plays Starcraft, she would regularly come sit by us and watch the game, talk to the fans, and ask questions. Her and clutch were mega approachable and honestly if you saw the atmosphere around her, people were lining up to take pictures with her.

How awesome is it that a playboy model was at a starcraft event?! I was totally revved and not the only one. And to boot she was cool and liked the game. She really got into the games.

Anything else in this thread is just stupidity. Are we gonna ban people's girlfriends as well? Because they dont know enough about the game. I saw several women over the weekend complaining about how boring this was and their bfs dragged them. Hell the NASL security guard thot this was the stupidest thing he'd ever seen.

Lauren actually appreciated the games and the fans, she was awesome about the whole thing and not a stuck up bitch. This article is embarassing to the community and OP is brainless for essentially calling Lauren "vapid and eye candy" when you are being a hypocrite you don't know two things about her. She was awesome I'd pay extra to see her at future events.
Awaken my child, and embrace the glory that is your birthright. Know that I am the Overmind; the eternal will of the Swarm, and that you have been created to serve me.
Penguinox
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden29 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 05:36:34
July 20 2012 05:31 GMT
#516
Personally I very much dislike females getting judged by looks in a whole different way than males get judged, and so I (personally) really dislike when girls get hired for events by these kinds of properties. I have no doubt at all that there is a good number of female starcrafters that, if they were male, would have been able to become very respectable casters if they so desired. Though, to me it really does feel like said women would have a harder time becoming a respectable casters as women if the case were that they would not be considered 'pretty' by general standards of the community. It is at least a much bigger factor for a female compared to male. Personally, I do think lower of NASL for hiring Lauren Elise for the motives she was hired for, to fill that role, and I also think lower of IEM (to name another example) for, in my opinion, objectifying women at several occasions during past events or other content. The lap dance thing at one of the previous homestory cups was pretty awkward to me as well.

Of course, skimming through the comments of his thread a bit as well as the facts that organizations do hire women for these reasons to satisfy the general audience, makes me draw the conclusion that a lot of people are fine with this. There'a also a geographical/cultural difference on how most people around view this kind of thing though, I guess.

To sum it up: I just feel it's ethically wrong to take looks into consideration more when hiring female than when hiring male.
Fish
Nachtwind
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1130 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 05:55:27
July 20 2012 05:55 GMT
#517
The only thing i can read from most of the people here

fear of women

some of you kids should get a bit more comon sense and grow up
invisible tetris level master
-_-Quails
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia796 Posts
July 20 2012 06:04 GMT
#518
On July 20 2012 11:47 Ramanujan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 05:21 crocodile wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:49 Ramanujan wrote:
On July 18 2012 22:46 effervescent wrote:

On July 18 2012 22:09 Ramanujan wrote:
Women get a lot of advantages in society simply because they're women. Better treatment, jobs, money, mates, etc. I imagine this "outrage" at some hot girl getting a job is because it's no longer ambiguous why she got it. If she's plain looking at least you can pretend she got the job because she's talented or something.


Hahaha, honey, in America women do NOT get equal treatment in the business/career world.

Also see: Sexual harassment in the workplace


I know. Women get better treatment.

This is why you're alone.


Nah. I'm alone because I'm ugly and smart, and women don't like that.

You're deluding yourself.
"I post only when my brain works." - Reaper9
Tewks44
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2032 Posts
July 20 2012 06:16 GMT
#519
I think a problem with introducing women into esports is that the most qualified women receive the most criticism. Here's my example.

Anna Prosser - dating a professional gamer, and not only supports what he does, but tries her best to contribute to esports in any way possible. In live report threads there are countless comments how she is just there for eye candy and doesn't deliver anything substantial

Rachel - dating a professional gamer, and a former professional gamer herself. She contributes to the community and she gets the same criticisms as Anna

Soe - I (admittedly) don't know much about Soe's background, but I do know that she has supported SC2 from launch, and the LR thread for the most recent event she was involved in (NASL) she was slammed for the exact same reasons as Anna and Rachel (she's eye candy, she is not a good personality, etc.)

On the flip side we have people like...

Lindsey Sporrer - Obviously knows nothing about Starcraft 2 and only got the gig with NASL because she was attractive. Although there were insults directed towards her no doubt, a semi cult following emerged that supported her being in more esports events.

and recently...

Lauren Elise - Has absolutely no credentials in SC2 and for the most part I've seen people shrug it off and say "well it's okay becuase she's just there because she's attractive"

It's interesting because all of these women I've listed would be at least an 8.5 (and that's being conservative) yet the most qualified individuals seem to get the most flak from the community.

"that is our ethos; free content, starcraft content, websites that work occasionally" -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
July 20 2012 06:20 GMT
#520
On July 19 2012 23:32 NeverGG wrote:
Just to share a few of my experiences as a female journalist working in the Korean eSports scene - I generally found working with the domestic teams/managers and other journalists to be a rewarding experience despite the language issues. There was never any trouble from either the staff, managers, fans or players. I was also actively included in post-game/finals events, given access to plenty of additional resources, and I never encountered any negative language or behavior. (Aside from a few of the FPS players who were rather arrogant and un-cooperative at times.)

I've generally found that the only issues came when posting on TL.net (mainly comments about my appearance being ugly from a minority of immature posters. Which are nicely balanced out by those who praise my voice and work), and dealing with non-Korean esports journalists/players during international events. TBH, most of the people I worked with during those events (such as Estars in Seoul and Intel Extreme Masters) were polite, kind and hard-working. I did however, encounter a rather egocentric type who did the following;

~ Patronize my work.
~ Constantly go on about the gorgeous/easiness of the 'booth girls' and other promotional staff. (I actually love shooting these ladies, but I think it's unprofessional to keep mentioning how much you want to bang them whilst people are supposed to be working.)
~ Ignore or otherwise act impolitely around me to impress the attractive ladies.

This can be said of pretty much anywhere though. I highly doubt that if I'd involved myself in other aspects of sporting journalism I *wouldn't* have encountered the same type of person.

I genuinely think that being attractive might have opened more doors for me during my time working in eSports. However, I don't believe it is better to be known for how pretty you are than to be appreciated for your dedication, hard-work and skills. I actually feel equally as sorry for any women who receive negative remarks about their looks in an eSports related environment *and* those who are considered attractive, but are not also lauded for their work.

In relation to hosting I think finding a balance is the key to introducing female hosts. Susie, is imo a good example of this - an intelligent lady who did her best to bring developing knowledge (and personality) to her co-caster role, but who also fulfils the need for an attractive female presence to lure in the mainly male demographic of eSports fans (Haha, Susie if you find this I'm bigging you up here.)

Things do seem to be changing gradually, and it's interesting to see all the various opinions floating around out there. I'm not actively involved in eSports any longer, but I'd like to think that other women won't see it as a daunting male-centric fandom into which they won't be welcomed. That's definitely a misconception. Despite my run-ins with certain members of TL.net in the past, the majority of posters and fans whom I've met in person were lovely :D
I feel this is the best post so far in the thread.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
July 20 2012 06:23 GMT
#521
On July 20 2012 15:16 Tewks44 wrote:
I think a problem with introducing women into esports is that the most qualified women receive the most criticism. Here's my example.

Anna Prosser - dating a professional gamer, and not only supports what he does, but tries her best to contribute to esports in any way possible. In live report threads there are countless comments how she is just there for eye candy and doesn't deliver anything substantial

Rachel - dating a professional gamer, and a former professional gamer herself. She contributes to the community and she gets the same criticisms as Anna

Soe - I (admittedly) don't know much about Soe's background, but I do know that she has supported SC2 from launch, and the LR thread for the most recent event she was involved in (NASL) she was slammed for the exact same reasons as Anna and Rachel (she's eye candy, she is not a good personality, etc.)

On the flip side we have people like...

Lindsey Sporrer - Obviously knows nothing about Starcraft 2 and only got the gig with NASL because she was attractive. Although there were insults directed towards her no doubt, a semi cult following emerged that supported her being in more esports events.

and recently...

Lauren Elise - Has absolutely no credentials in SC2 and for the most part I've seen people shrug it off and say "well it's okay becuase she's just there because she's attractive"

It's interesting because all of these women I've listed would be at least an 8.5 (and that's being conservative) yet the most qualified individuals seem to get the most flak from the community.



The problem is there isn't any one woman who is qualified to do the job. Sorry not one and that's why you get the pretty face.

That's as blunt as I can put it. Even a girl who competes with the boys non-stop like Flo. The community has incredibly high standards when it comes to shit like this and the focus should be on the bookies. Not the women.

You have a problem? Take it up with the bookies.

What they're doing is nothing new. Sex and violence sells. It's a cheap fix.
TheRealPaciFist
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1049 Posts
July 20 2012 06:35 GMT
#522
On July 20 2012 15:20 Yorbon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 23:32 NeverGG wrote:
Just to share a few of my experiences as a female journalist working in the Korean eSports scene - I generally found working with the domestic teams/managers and other journalists to be a rewarding experience despite the language issues. There was never any trouble from either the staff, managers, fans or players. I was also actively included in post-game/finals events, given access to plenty of additional resources, and I never encountered any negative language or behavior. (Aside from a few of the FPS players who were rather arrogant and un-cooperative at times.)

I've generally found that the only issues came when posting on TL.net (mainly comments about my appearance being ugly from a minority of immature posters. Which are nicely balanced out by those who praise my voice and work), and dealing with non-Korean esports journalists/players during international events. TBH, most of the people I worked with during those events (such as Estars in Seoul and Intel Extreme Masters) were polite, kind and hard-working. I did however, encounter a rather egocentric type who did the following;

~ Patronize my work.
~ Constantly go on about the gorgeous/easiness of the 'booth girls' and other promotional staff. (I actually love shooting these ladies, but I think it's unprofessional to keep mentioning how much you want to bang them whilst people are supposed to be working.)
~ Ignore or otherwise act impolitely around me to impress the attractive ladies.

This can be said of pretty much anywhere though. I highly doubt that if I'd involved myself in other aspects of sporting journalism I *wouldn't* have encountered the same type of person.

I genuinely think that being attractive might have opened more doors for me during my time working in eSports. However, I don't believe it is better to be known for how pretty you are than to be appreciated for your dedication, hard-work and skills. I actually feel equally as sorry for any women who receive negative remarks about their looks in an eSports related environment *and* those who are considered attractive, but are not also lauded for their work.

In relation to hosting I think finding a balance is the key to introducing female hosts. Susie, is imo a good example of this - an intelligent lady who did her best to bring developing knowledge (and personality) to her co-caster role, but who also fulfils the need for an attractive female presence to lure in the mainly male demographic of eSports fans (Haha, Susie if you find this I'm bigging you up here.)

Things do seem to be changing gradually, and it's interesting to see all the various opinions floating around out there. I'm not actively involved in eSports any longer, but I'd like to think that other women won't see it as a daunting male-centric fandom into which they won't be welcomed. That's definitely a misconception. Despite my run-ins with certain members of TL.net in the past, the majority of posters and fans whom I've met in person were lovely :D
I feel this is the best post so far in the thread.


Maybe the only post worth reading.

--

I think it would be best if we stopped making assumptions, and just deal with actual issues as they arise - and Lauren Elise has caused no issues, and several Starcraft fans have stated that she was great at the NASL.

It's completely okay to discuss gender roles and their relation to Starcraft, but I feel like the OP makes this thread more fitting for a blog than for the general discussion. And I think the insults are getting out of hand
Second favorite strategy game of all time: Starcraft. First: Go (aka Wei Qi, Paduk, or Igo)
Geisterkarle
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Germany3257 Posts
July 20 2012 06:36 GMT
#523
On July 20 2012 14:17 ZeaLL wrote:
I was at NASL, spoke to Lauren and observed her over the weekend at the event. You honestly can't help but stare at her she was gorgeous.

She plays Starcraft, she would regularly come sit by us and watch the game, talk to the fans, and ask questions. Her and clutch were mega approachable and honestly if you saw the atmosphere around her, people were lining up to take pictures with her.

How awesome is it that a playboy model was at a starcraft event?! I was totally revved and not the only one. And to boot she was cool and liked the game. She really got into the games.

Anything else in this thread is just stupidity. Are we gonna ban people's girlfriends as well? Because they dont know enough about the game. I saw several women over the weekend complaining about how boring this was and their bfs dragged them. Hell the NASL security guard thot this was the stupidest thing he'd ever seen.

Lauren actually appreciated the games and the fans, she was awesome about the whole thing and not a stuck up bitch. This article is embarassing to the community and OP is brainless for essentially calling Lauren "vapid and eye candy" when you are being a hypocrite you don't know two things about her. She was awesome I'd pay extra to see her at future events.

Well, that may all be true.
I was not there and only watched the stream. And if I combine this with this threads title, the "presentation" of Lauren was really just "eye candy"! She was standing besides the other host and handed out USB-Sticks and whatever. Maybe I missed it, but did she say anything at all besides maybe "Who wants this <advertisement product>"?
I don't have a problem with a beautiful woman as host; I even don't care if she knows the game or not. But please let the girl do something useful!
i.e. I remember visiting a trade fair. There was a company that were selling shutter gates. They had a "performance" where a fork truck was crushing into one of their gates (and it didn't break and so on). It was presented by a really gorgeous woman, that explained how good the gates are and so on. Yes, she probably got more photos of herself then the actual gate they were selling. I don't care if she did this because she "felt" something about the product or just because she was paid for it. But she was doing something besides standing around and showing her body: She was actually more then just "eye candy".
And like I said: Maybe I missed it, but all I saw from Lauren was standing around smiling and walking with swiveling hips! THIS is NOT what I want a woman to be presented! And this is me talking, that always tells his (female) dancing partners, that in dancing the man leads and the woman has to look good
There can only be one Geisterkarle
sLideSC2
Profile Joined July 2012
United States225 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 07:03:31
July 20 2012 07:02 GMT
#524
On July 20 2012 04:33 Cirqueenflex wrote:
seriously, i'm getting sick of how "ESPORTS" is more and more turning into a religion. Not only with witch hunts, blind and unreasonable behaviour "to not hurt ESPORTS", "to help ESPORTS" and other ridiculous stuff (as if you could hurt ESPORTS, when SC2 is only a really small part of a much richer scene than you could imagine), but also with bashing people. Be it because they are not clearly as fanatic (no pun intended) or involved as you wish them to be, be it because you don't like their opinion, be it because they are only in diamond league and dare to say anything on the strategy forums. Every day people get mistreated because of those reasons, and speaking long term they "hurt ESPORTS" way more than someone not turning off their Ad-Block on TL.
Sure tournament hosts are somewhat representive of the sport when someone really watches SC2 for the first time on that event, but even so, i do honestly believe the girl did a pretty good job considering she had no clue whatsoever beforehand. She did deliver overall hosting, and she did well, and she never needed to give you pseudo-insight or wrong analysis, as many casters jump the gun trying to bring you the full truth when they can't even fully see the picture themselves.
And by bitching not only about her being only there to host, but also on the representation of females in SC2, you alienate not-SC2-involved-people even more. Good job on that.


This discussion isn't even closely related to this. Please think and read over your words before hitting that post button again please. No one forces you to act right, or forces you to watch events "to not hurt ESPORTS". You can do what you want, you don't even have to like eSports, that's fine with me. In all honesty you sound like a mad kid trying to justify using Adblock.

(as if you could hurt ESPORTS, when SC2 is only a really small part of a much richer scene than you could imagine)


No. You are simply ignorant or uninformed if you think SC2 is a really small part of eSports. Check the prize money and the number of professional players in the Starcraft scene, and then compare it to any other game. I'm not saying that Starcraft is the only eSport game or even a dominate game, but it definitely has a leg up over the others in terms of infrastructure and money, this is just plain fact.
https://twitter.com/sLideSC2 | (NA)sLide.635 | coL_Sasqautch ~ coL_QXC ~ coL_TriMaster
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 09:28:41
July 20 2012 09:21 GMT
#525
Question to OP: if you care about starcraft, how come your first post on TL is not about starcraft, but some sort of non-existant gender drama? Use your own logic by example, if you want some credibility.
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
July 20 2012 09:34 GMT
#526
I have to be honest, this thread seems like a waste of breath. This pretty much should have been put in any number of similarly done threads previously (as i know ive seen multiple threads on things like this - scarlette for example had alot of conversations popping up about stuff like this)
Penguinox
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden29 Posts
July 20 2012 14:00 GMT
#527
On July 20 2012 18:21 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Question to OP: if you care about starcraft, how come your first post on TL is not about starcraft, but some sort of non-existant gender drama? Use your own logic by example, if you want some credibility.


I welcome this discussion. While this might not be about something IN the game, it's still very much about the community surrounding starcraft. The gender issue being non-existant depends entirely on what viewpoint you have about it; you're either fine by this and so it's not an issue, or you find it to be a problem, and it becomes an issue.
Fish
Random321321
Profile Joined May 2011
32 Posts
July 20 2012 14:42 GMT
#528
On the one hand, no this isn't the biggest deal in the world, and it's ok boys, liking starcraft is ok, settle down. On the other hand, we are building an industry and community here, and we have the choice about how we want that community to treat half of the population. The message that is being sent right now is that women only exist as sexual objects to ogle between games. Meanwhile, men are not held to a high standard of knowledge or expertise, but are also not required to be particularly attractive. For men, personality matters, for women, it's only appearance. Yes, the world of gaming is dominated by men right now, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make an effort to make the scene more amenable to those who don't fit into certain narrow stereotypes of the gamer: white (or asian) male heterosexual middle class, etc.
shell
Profile Joined October 2010
Portugal2722 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 14:56:38
July 20 2012 14:56 GMT
#529
What's the problem with having eye-candy?

we are boys and we(most of us) like girls..

we also like to watch starcraft, what if starcraft would have girls? hmm pretty good right?

Nasl had casters, players and personalities all of them boys.. besides scarlet, Lauren Elise and Soe..

So that makes 3 girls for 100 boys(more or less)?

Isn't it good enought? :D
BENFICA || Besties: idra, Stephano, Nestea, Jaedong, Serral, Jinro, Scarlett || Zerg <3
killy666
Profile Joined July 2012
France204 Posts
July 20 2012 14:59 GMT
#530
I think the problem is not how we present girls, but much more how we see them. Once we'll accept the fact that they are a person like anyone else, they won't perhaps need special attention to the specificity of their sex. They need to present themselves differently, because they are treated differently. Of course, some of them abuse this mechanic in the sense that they take advantage of the attention that such a male-dominated (in population numbers) environment represents. But it's in our behavior that we can prevent that.

If we can look past the gender in our relation to the person, they won't need to consider the gender in any of their interactions with the scene. I know it's easier said than done, but we've gotta try.
My life is sicker than your band
Orzabal
Profile Joined December 2009
France287 Posts
July 20 2012 18:07 GMT
#531
thanks for this post. I feel the same.
BaconofWar
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States369 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-20 18:30:28
July 20 2012 18:30 GMT
#532
I see no harm here, because I don't think that her job as the host requires her to have a significant amount of knowledge going into it. A woman, either hot or not, doing interviews for sports channels is one of the most common things there are, and It's a business tactic to get more viewers. That's something I like VERY much. If she was up in the casting booth however, and was directly interfering with how I enjoy the game, then I'd be up in arms protesting NASL. So I really think that you're making a bigger deal about this than it really is. If you don't believe me, watch a commercial, and see how few regular, unattractive people, male or female, there are.

TLDR; Not a big deal, it's not like she's casting, everyone hires a pair of boobs to push their product/show/thingy
Well, C9 is the best right now
msl
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany477 Posts
July 20 2012 18:41 GMT
#533
On July 21 2012 03:30 BaconofWar wrote:
I see no harm here, because I don't think that her job as the host requires her to have a significant amount of knowledge going into it. A woman, either hot or not, doing interviews for sports channels is one of the most common things there are, and It's a business tactic to get more viewers. That's something I like VERY much. If she was up in the casting booth however, and was directly interfering with how I enjoy the game, then I'd be up in arms protesting NASL. So I really think that you're making a bigger deal about this than it really is. If you don't believe me, watch a commercial, and see how few regular, unattractive people, male or female, there are.

TLDR; Not a big deal, it's not like she's casting, everyone hires a pair of boobs to push their product/show/thingy


I like how you take something that is a bad thing, namely the objectification of women and say it is no big deal.

It is debatable wether SC2 can be expected to be ahead of the curve in that regard, but refering to women as "a pair of boobs" shows rather nicely the actual problem. Hint: It is you!
Support TONY best TONY
Haustka
Profile Joined August 2010
United States221 Posts
July 20 2012 18:45 GMT
#534
ive been curious about Scarlett, will she be able to compete in these female only events when shes already good enough to beat Koreans and beating Huk like he was nothing?

Really curious to where she stands from community point of view
Power of Human Will
ThatGuy89
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1968 Posts
July 20 2012 21:01 GMT
#535
wow i cant believe theres a thread like this, but this is the first time ive seen it and havent read through any of the posts so sorry if this is pointless or already been said.

I still think the whole females into the sc2 community is a tough point - even with scarlets recent success. I remember when that woman was hired for the first NASL event. And putting it nicely, she was awful. She literally knew nothing about the game. The likes of anna prosser or rachel might not actually be pro gamers like scarlet but at least they know the races and what goes on in the game. And yet because she was attractive people on this forum were getting really really excited about how much she was gonna do for the community. And the nonsense she spewed out about what race she was gonna pick and she couldnt wait to start playing - and yet where is she now? I got like 3 warnings and a temp ban when that kicked off as people were acting as if she was gonna change the scene or something. Someone people correct me if im wrong - i play too much D3 and xbox i dont keep up with the scene anymore - has she been involved in the last 6 months? infact has she done anything since she did that first NASL?

What im saying is that its too hard to introduce females into the SC2 scene atm. They either get FAR too much attention if they're good looking - like to NASL woman (i genuinely have forgotten her name, wanna say lisa?) - or if they're not that good looking - which the stereotype is for female gamers i think - they wont feel confident enough to do anything public like stream or go to a tournament as there are too many immature people in the community which would just have to have a dig or say something not at all needed.

Having female gamers is absolutely fine - but there are too many people that wouldnt be able to stop them self from being a dick to them
As far as casting goes, it shouldnt matter weather they're male/female/animal/alien or anything else, as long as they know what they're talking about

plus i think females would generally have more composure and wouldnt just be mindlessley screaming like wolf/khlador do
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
July 20 2012 21:10 GMT
#536
On July 21 2012 03:45 Haustka wrote:
ive been curious about Scarlett, will she be able to compete in these female only events when shes already good enough to beat Koreans and beating Huk like he was nothing?

Really curious to where she stands from community point of view

I hope that Scarlett has better things to do with her time than compete in female only tournaments, although it would force the organizers to reconsider their legitimacy...
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Fredz
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada36 Posts
July 20 2012 21:16 GMT
#537
Those females only tournament are a joke anyway. If they were serious about it, they would ask participants their driver's licence or any identity card with your gender on it to avoid any weird thing from happening (exactly like they do in female only poker tournaments or any other sports). And so Scarlet would not be eligible for these tournaments.
Roachu
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden692 Posts
July 20 2012 21:45 GMT
#538
As long as the audience is 99% men (a number I consider accurate and not exaggerated) this will always be an "issue". That is if you consider it an issue really. Having a beautiful hostess is nothing bad or demeaning to women, even if she happens to be a playboy model. The issue comes from choosing someone who doesn't know anything about the event she's hosting, which I assume NASL did. I can't imagine Lauren Elise had any knowledge of Starcraft or its community before being contacted by NASL, which is pretty bad considering they did have Soe there who is a woman, a pretty one at that who KNOWS what the hell she's talking about. If they really needed a female host, which they didn't, why didn't Soe cover that?
I'm not tuning in to NASL (or any other esports event for that matter) to see a playboy bunny and the fact NASL thinks they need that offends me. She wasn't a competent host as far as I could see, we all know she was there because she is a pretty girl us nerds can drool over. I'd rather have Incontrol, Day9, or any other funny community figure as a host over a random pretty girl any day. When a genuinely charismatic female personality arises in the community, have her do it if you think you need it.
Don't be asshats
derpinator
Profile Joined December 2011
74 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-21 02:46:30
July 21 2012 02:44 GMT
#539
I only encountered one girl gamer on ladder once but I would welcome the idea of having more female gamers in SC2 community.

One of the better things is that female gamers rage allot less than male gamers do and they also should be much better multitaskers than men are so there is no reason they shouldnt own.

Its just that when I look at some of the female SC2 gamers on TL streamlist I just notice they arent as "passionate" about the game as there male counterparts. They just play for fun and lack the agressiveness of male players which is probably a reason why we dont see allot of women playing SC2.

So I guess this game needs more pink colors lol
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
July 21 2012 03:01 GMT
#540
On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it.



The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously.

why do you not take those women seriously though?

i think it's a kind of sexism to think of the "eye candy" as someone else put it as anything other than a thinking individual completely deserving of respect. just cause a girl is pretty doesn't mean that she can't be taken seriously... or that your perception of her specifically should have anything to do with your perception of other girls. that would be like me saying that since one girl is an airhead, i can't take women seriously... which is wrong cause one girl is not another girl. its like, just cause some dude is a jerk doesn't mean random girl from another state is also a jerk, so why if one girl is pretty or "eye candy" then why does she reflect on other girls in your opinion? what does she have to do with other girls?
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-21 03:24:50
July 21 2012 03:23 GMT
#541
On July 20 2012 15:36 Geisterkarle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 14:17 ZeaLL wrote:
I was at NASL, spoke to Lauren and observed her over the weekend at the event. You honestly can't help but stare at her she was gorgeous.

She plays Starcraft, she would regularly come sit by us and watch the game, talk to the fans, and ask questions. Her and clutch were mega approachable and honestly if you saw the atmosphere around her, people were lining up to take pictures with her.

How awesome is it that a playboy model was at a starcraft event?! I was totally revved and not the only one. And to boot she was cool and liked the game. She really got into the games.

Anything else in this thread is just stupidity. Are we gonna ban people's girlfriends as well? Because they dont know enough about the game. I saw several women over the weekend complaining about how boring this was and their bfs dragged them. Hell the NASL security guard thot this was the stupidest thing he'd ever seen.

Lauren actually appreciated the games and the fans, she was awesome about the whole thing and not a stuck up bitch. This article is embarassing to the community and OP is brainless for essentially calling Lauren "vapid and eye candy" when you are being a hypocrite you don't know two things about her. She was awesome I'd pay extra to see her at future events.

Well, that may all be true.
I was not there and only watched the stream. And if I combine this with this threads title, the "presentation" of Lauren was really just "eye candy"! She was standing besides the other host and handed out USB-Sticks and whatever. Maybe I missed it, but did she say anything at all besides maybe "Who wants this <advertisement product>"?
I don't have a problem with a beautiful woman as host; I even don't care if she knows the game or not. But please let the girl do something useful!
i.e. I remember visiting a trade fair. There was a company that were selling shutter gates. They had a "performance" where a fork truck was crushing into one of their gates (and it didn't break and so on). It was presented by a really gorgeous woman, that explained how good the gates are and so on. Yes, she probably got more photos of herself then the actual gate they were selling. I don't care if she did this because she "felt" something about the product or just because she was paid for it. But she was doing something besides standing around and showing her body: She was actually more then just "eye candy".
And like I said: Maybe I missed it, but all I saw from Lauren was standing around smiling and walking with swiveling hips! THIS is NOT what I want a woman to be presented! And this is me talking, that always tells his (female) dancing partners, that in dancing the man leads and the woman has to look good




I hate to break it to anyone who didnt notice, but shes making a career out of being "objectified" or whatever way you want to put it. Objectified is such a crass term anyway used in a self serving way to let ones conscious feel better.

She wants to do it, shes getting paid to host. And shes doing her job to the extent that is neccessary. I didnt really notice her much and its not like I HAVE to watch the content when she pops up. But other people want to and like it. I dont see the problem. If her job atNASL is to be eye candy (which I reiterate is her primary occupation) then I dont see the problem.
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