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How to present females in the SCII-community? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Swift118
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom335 Posts
July 18 2012 03:36 GMT
#161
An attractive female is a charming creature indeed. I sense the OP is possibly a somewhat jealous female.
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 03:45:06
July 18 2012 03:44 GMT
#162
I just wish one girl would take a bullet for their team.

Ladder. Practice. Make a |||||||||||||||||||||| account and don't talk to people. Don't tell people you are a girl. Don't tell them you are a boy. Just practice. Put in the 6-8 hours a day, and show up at a tourney and try to shine.

If a female does even marginally well and gets attention, teams will often take them in. Is this sexist? Possibly, but if it helps jumpstart female competitive gamers a little, then I don't see an issue with it as much...This will give that woman greater practice options and teammates to practice with hopefully.

I can see problems with my little naive wish in Korea, where good players are expected to sit in an apartment all day with 20 other males, and could see issues with that... but in Europe there are plenty of males making names for themselves without living in super dedicated team houses. They might not be korean level (besides naniwa, stephano, sase, thorzain, nerchio, and a few other standouts), but they are competitive and get invited to tourneys and stuff.

I think the best female player before Scarlett (won't get into THAT discussion in this thread), was megumixbear, who....... just seemed to fade out of existence. She appeared on Destiny's stream a few times and I have never heard anything from her since that didn't involve female-only tourneys.

What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated. Are there ANY women actually playing this game competitively besides Scarlett? Do ANY of them actually practice hard? 6-10 hours a day like a Naniwa? I do not mean to offend any that do, but I have heard of none and have paid attention to female players hoping one would appear. Yet I just don't see it happening. I see them get marginally popular then start streaming with 500 viewers... and that's it really.

I understand there are a low number of them, but even if .5% of the SC2 players are female, there should still be at least 2-3 standouts.

Regardless of the issues Scarlett causes, I hope Scarlett will be a focal point for woman gamers to step up and put in the time.
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
July 18 2012 03:45 GMT
#163
On July 18 2012 12:22 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On July 18 2012 11:47 Sinensis wrote:
Here's the problem I have with your argument: Males are selected based on the exact same criteria. Being attractive is an important quality for people who work in the public eye. It doesn't have to do with gender.

Is <tournament> going to hire an unattractive host when there are thousands of attractive candidates? No.

I think females get the better part of the criticism simply because there are less females working in esports. I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with sexism or misogyny. There just happens to be a lot of adolescent males in the community.


I agree with the fact that being physically attractive is an important asset when being considered for an on-camera position, although I think we've seen more host/ master of ceremonies/ stage eye candy/ interviewer positions go to hot females who don't know much about the game, than hot males who don't know much about the game. And I usually have a problem when a person's *only* good quality is their physical features. They still need to know about StarCraft, or else they're just going to look silly, unprofessional, and possibly skanky.


I can't disagree with you at all here. Hiring someone just because they are attractive is borderline outragious; there are tons of people in the community giving up their lives just to attempt to make it "in."

There are also tons of experienced hosts outside the community who, be it their positive energy, looks, stage presence, etc., have a lot to offer. It doesn't take a lot of Starcraft knowledge to host a SC event. Anyone can learn tournament brackets and a couple anecdotes to tell the crowd. I am all for having a super experienced host who may know nothing about SC beforehand, as long as they are trying their hardest and doing a good job. Snoop Dogg as a future host of MLG? YES PLEASE.

But someone who is just attractive who doesn't have any idea what's really going on and isn't making a serious effort, just parading around being pretty, that's just bad.


I think this is the most accurate description of what is going on here. I would say their decision to use eye candy where knowledgeability was wanted was tacky, a bit of an insult to commentators, fans and ms Lauren. Not that eye candy is a concept that is demeaning to men or women, but there is a time and place for it. Audiences are somewhat perverted, but not so perverted that eyecandy can be substituted in for every aspect of a production. Clearly a mismanaging of talent has occurred.
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:33:55
July 18 2012 03:52 GMT
#164
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?

With respect to E-sports, or sports in general, women have been on display for their sex appeal for decades. It's a part of the show. It doesn't detract from the main event anymore than it would in football or baseball.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:02 GMT
#165
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:24:29
July 18 2012 04:04 GMT
#166
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.

it's considered "BAD" in our culture to admit men are primarily attracted to looks. i don't understand why. This entire post suggests it's bad to admire a womans beauty, and that somehow it's bad for E-Sports to have attractive women just because they are attractive. Guys like looking at attractive women. it's a fact, otherwise they wouldn't be hired for such jobs.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:13:22
July 18 2012 04:07 GMT
#167
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:08 GMT
#168
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


That's actually not what I said.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:30:51
July 18 2012 04:18 GMT
#169
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.

this Lauren girl who was the host may be brilliant. She could have masters degrees for all I know. Bjut she's chosen to make a career out of her looks. Which is fine. And there's nothing wrong with tournaments and sporting events hiring attractive women. It doesn't hurt E-Sports in any way
Kyrao
Profile Joined July 2010
United States161 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 07:28:06
July 18 2012 04:19 GMT
#170
On July 18 2012 11:53 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 11:48 Kyrao wrote:

So girls can text all day and super fast, but they can't play a video game for 12 hours a day??? Doesn't make much sense. The reason girls don't play starcraft for 12 hours a day is because they aren't good. Doing something you aren't good at for 12 hours a day (compared to men) is demoralizing. And so they stop trying to compete with men and/or join an all female league.

Like I said before. This is the reason there are seperate leagues in all sports for men and women. Because it would be demoralizing for women to try and compete with men in sports.


I wonder if this guy actually realized that, in this respect at least, esports is very different from athletic sports...

Girls have separate leagues in most sports because biologically men are simply built stronger, a product of higher testosterone levels. Yes, esports is physically demanding, but not in the same ways as your typically athletic sport. Theoretically, girls should be able to compete with men. To understand why this doesn't appear to be the case at this time, it might help to think about high school athletics. Smaller schools don't compete with larger schools, not because people at larger schools are inherently better at sports, but because the pool .

The culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time creates a similar situation. Because men are much more likely to be drawn into hardcore/competitive gaming, the male pool from which we draw our best/brightest players is much larger than the pool of best/brightest female players. Therefore, if you select the best of the best, you are much more likely to see that group dominated by males.

As the culture changes, as it currently is (albeit slowly), this will change. If we want more talented, knowledgable females in the SC2 scene, we need to find ways to make competitive gaming more attractive for them. Part of this would be making current females in the scene more visible... give video gaming some female faces in addition to all of the male faces.

Basically... we need more Scarlett.

playing devils advocate, if this was the case, wouldn't we see a influx of female grandmaster chess players? again, still predominately male. poker? predominately male.

now I'm not necessarily chopping this up to be "MEN BETTER THAN FEMALE, NO MATTER WHAT", but it does beg the question, "why?" I think a lot of it has to do with social stereotypes, and how they're often self fulfilling process.

Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2.


I think you have a good point there. Males are inherently drawn to more competitive activities. I do not think that invalidates my point about pool sizes, it simply adds to the reasoning for the culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time. The solution remains the same, even if we will never reach full equality of representation due to the genetics.

Also, I think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point.
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 05:02:00
July 18 2012 04:23 GMT
#171
It think the most pertinent issue to bring up is that there's probably much more qualified women hosts than Lauren in the sense of conversation, questions, passion, diction, etc.
It may be hard to find a woman who's good/knowledgeable at Starcraft, but should not be hard to find a woman who is good at speaking/interviewing/commentating in general, and maybe likes games and is attractive as a side note.

That kind of person should be second choice to a person who's reasonably good at Starcraft or at least knows a lot about it, and isn't terrible at public speaking.

The choice here just seemed strange — I don't see the point of having people who don't know about the game and don't necessarily do much public speaking.
On July 18 2012 13:19 Kyrao wrote:
Also, I'm think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point.

1. One can't ever (at least with current technology) actually be physically female if born male. If one organ is made to look like another that doesn't make them physically a different gender, it just sometimes allows for them to legally change their gender (that can be done without surgery depending on the region. In Ontario one can legally change their gender without a surgery)
2. I rather doubt the had sexual reassignment surgery (because it's still not very common), but I don't know.
3. Mostly because of #1, the whole issue on "physical status" doesn't matter — it's mostly hormones and brain mechanics that affects who a person is.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
July 18 2012 04:25 GMT
#172
On July 18 2012 13:18 mlspmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.


Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post.

So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise.
Creationism
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
China505 Posts
July 18 2012 04:26 GMT
#173
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?
The hoi polloi is the plague upon the world.
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
July 18 2012 04:29 GMT
#174
On July 18 2012 13:26 Creationism wrote:
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?


Nothing else going on, is there?
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
July 18 2012 04:32 GMT
#175
On July 18 2012 13:29 Euronyme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:26 Creationism wrote:
Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy?


Nothing else going on, is there?


You shouldn't answer rhetorical questions.

Oh wait, damn it, I just answered a rhetorical question.
GertHeart
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States631 Posts
July 18 2012 04:33 GMT
#176
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.
He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert
mlspmatt
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:42:17
July 18 2012 04:41 GMT
#177
On July 18 2012 13:25 Sinensis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 13:18 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote:
On July 18 2012 12:30 brokor wrote:
* She accomplished nothing???

Looking good is an accomplishment, same as being smart or working hard.

Only people who deny it are mediocre looking guys/girls who think they are better than others just because they are smarter/luckier in life.

I am very mediocre looking but i appreciate a nice look, and not for the sexyness of it.


To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks.

I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point?


You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with.
Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own.

So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own.


Lol you didn't just go there.

I know you didn't just do that.

I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard.

I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner.


Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post.

So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise.

People often read their own meanings into things, not what was actually said. Especially when you say something they disagree with or is considered unacceptable by today's societal rules. people are overly sensative.
Space Invader
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia291 Posts
July 18 2012 04:43 GMT
#178
What do you mean, 'you people'?
I may be of thome athithtanthe if there ith a thudden crithith!
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-18 04:59:29
July 18 2012 04:53 GMT
#179
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote:
What do you mean, 'you people'?


What do you mean, 'you people'?







On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote:
I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it.

Nada's body thread = Acceptable.

Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable.

Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world.

Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek.
That's how I've been raised, sad as it is.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
July 18 2012 04:58 GMT
#180
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.
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