EPTHow to present females in the SCII-community? - Page 9
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
Ladder. Practice. Make a |||||||||||||||||||||| account and don't talk to people. Don't tell people you are a girl. Don't tell them you are a boy. Just practice. Put in the 6-8 hours a day, and show up at a tourney and try to shine. If a female does even marginally well and gets attention, teams will often take them in. Is this sexist? Possibly, but if it helps jumpstart female competitive gamers a little, then I don't see an issue with it as much...This will give that woman greater practice options and teammates to practice with hopefully. I can see problems with my little naive wish in Korea, where good players are expected to sit in an apartment all day with 20 other males, and could see issues with that... but in Europe there are plenty of males making names for themselves without living in super dedicated team houses. They might not be korean level (besides naniwa, stephano, sase, thorzain, nerchio, and a few other standouts), but they are competitive and get invited to tourneys and stuff. I think the best female player before Scarlett (won't get into THAT discussion in this thread), was megumixbear, who....... just seemed to fade out of existence. She appeared on Destiny's stream a few times and I have never heard anything from her since that didn't involve female-only tourneys. What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated. Are there ANY women actually playing this game competitively besides Scarlett? Do ANY of them actually practice hard? 6-10 hours a day like a Naniwa? I do not mean to offend any that do, but I have heard of none and have paid attention to female players hoping one would appear. Yet I just don't see it happening. I see them get marginally popular then start streaming with 500 viewers... and that's it really. I understand there are a low number of them, but even if .5% of the SC2 players are female, there should still be at least 2-3 standouts. Regardless of the issues Scarlett causes, I hope Scarlett will be a focal point for woman gamers to step up and put in the time. | ||
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
On July 18 2012 12:22 Sinensis wrote: I can't disagree with you at all here. Hiring someone just because they are attractive is borderline outragious; there are tons of people in the community giving up their lives just to attempt to make it "in." There are also tons of experienced hosts outside the community who, be it their positive energy, looks, stage presence, etc., have a lot to offer. It doesn't take a lot of Starcraft knowledge to host a SC event. Anyone can learn tournament brackets and a couple anecdotes to tell the crowd. I am all for having a super experienced host who may know nothing about SC beforehand, as long as they are trying their hardest and doing a good job. Snoop Dogg as a future host of MLG? YES PLEASE. But someone who is just attractive who doesn't have any idea what's really going on and isn't making a serious effort, just parading around being pretty, that's just bad. I think this is the most accurate description of what is going on here. I would say their decision to use eye candy where knowledgeability was wanted was tacky, a bit of an insult to commentators, fans and ms Lauren. Not that eye candy is a concept that is demeaning to men or women, but there is a time and place for it. Audiences are somewhat perverted, but not so perverted that eyecandy can be substituted in for every aspect of a production. Clearly a mismanaging of talent has occurred. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On July 18 2012 12:34 Euronyme wrote: To each his own, but personally I admire intellect a lot more than looks. I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point? With respect to E-sports, or sports in general, women have been on display for their sex appeal for decades. It's a part of the show. It doesn't detract from the main event anymore than it would in football or baseball. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 18 2012 12:52 mlspmatt wrote: I'm not really interested in a womans intellect. I can have all the female friends I want who are smart. i choose them based on their attractiveness for sexual purposes. Otherwise, what's the point? You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with. Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:02 Euronyme wrote: You said that looking good was in fact an equal accomplishment to being smart or having worked hard, to which I just pointed out that I disagree with. Furthermore, for me personally a mind numbingly stupid girl is a giant turn off, but as I said - to each his own. So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own. it's considered "BAD" in our culture to admit men are primarily attracted to looks. i don't understand why. This entire post suggests it's bad to admire a womans beauty, and that somehow it's bad for E-Sports to have attractive women just because they are attractive. Guys like looking at attractive women. it's a fact, otherwise they wouldn't be hired for such jobs. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote: So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own. Lol you didn't just go there. I know you didn't just do that. I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:04 mlspmatt wrote: So is a woman who resembles a man. But .... to each his own. That's actually not what I said. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:07 Sinensis wrote: Lol you didn't just go there. I know you didn't just do that. I like how you already edited your post yet you still feel like implying only men are intelligent and can work hard. I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner. this Lauren girl who was the host may be brilliant. She could have masters degrees for all I know. Bjut she's chosen to make a career out of her looks. Which is fine. And there's nothing wrong with tournaments and sporting events hiring attractive women. It doesn't hurt E-Sports in any way | ||
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Kyrao
United States161 Posts
On July 18 2012 11:53 wei2coolman wrote: playing devils advocate, if this was the case, wouldn't we see a influx of female grandmaster chess players? again, still predominately male. poker? predominately male. now I'm not necessarily chopping this up to be "MEN BETTER THAN FEMALE, NO MATTER WHAT", but it does beg the question, "why?" I think a lot of it has to do with social stereotypes, and how they're often self fulfilling process. Also, in the case of Scarlett (sensitive topic,i know). Is physically male, but identifies as female, right? Probably not exactly best example to represent the female sex in SC2. I think you have a good point there. Males are inherently drawn to more competitive activities. I do not think that invalidates my point about pool sizes, it simply adds to the reasoning for the culture/stereotype of video games being a predominantly male past time. The solution remains the same, even if we will never reach full equality of representation due to the genetics. Also, I think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point. | ||
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Xapti
Canada2473 Posts
It may be hard to find a woman who's good/knowledgeable at Starcraft, but should not be hard to find a woman who is good at speaking/interviewing/commentating in general, and maybe likes games and is attractive as a side note. That kind of person should be second choice to a person who's reasonably good at Starcraft or at least knows a lot about it, and isn't terrible at public speaking. The choice here just seemed strange — I don't see the point of having people who don't know about the game and don't necessarily do much public speaking. On July 18 2012 13:19 Kyrao wrote: Also, I'm think you're wrong about the specifics of Scarlett's sexuality. I'm pretty sure she is physically female at this point. 1. One can't ever (at least with current technology) actually be physically female if born male. If one organ is made to look like another that doesn't make them physically a different gender, it just sometimes allows for them to legally change their gender (that can be done without surgery depending on the region. In Ontario one can legally change their gender without a surgery) 2. I rather doubt the had sexual reassignment surgery (because it's still not very common), but I don't know. 3. Mostly because of #1, the whole issue on "physical status" doesn't matter — it's mostly hormones and brain mechanics that affects who a person is. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:18 mlspmatt wrote: I said nothing of the sort. What I said was it's not important in selecting a sexual partner. If a woman wants to work hard, or is intelligent, that's great. Lots of women are smart, and a hell of a lot smarter than me. And a lot of women work a lot harder than me. Both are very admirable, just not necessary when selecting a sexual partner. Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post. So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise. | ||
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Creationism
China505 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:26 Creationism wrote: Are we seriously having an argument over NASL's choice of fucking eye candy? Nothing else going on, is there? | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
You shouldn't answer rhetorical questions. Oh wait, damn it, I just answered a rhetorical question.  | ||
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GertHeart
United States631 Posts
Nada's body thread = Acceptable. Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable. Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world. Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:25 Sinensis wrote: Well, I wasn't the one that reported your post. So, maybe you said something you didn't think you said without knowing. I can't explain it otherwise. People often read their own meanings into things, not what was actually said. Especially when you say something they disagree with or is considered unacceptable by today's societal rules. people are overly sensative. | ||
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Space Invader
Australia291 Posts
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:43 Space Invader wrote: What do you mean, 'you people'? What do you mean, 'you people'? On July 18 2012 13:33 GertHeart wrote: I'll sum it up kinda short and sweet to you how unfortunately most people are retarded and don't realize it. Nada's body thread = Acceptable. Lauren Elise's body thread(Or any other female.) = Unacceptable. Most guys and gals are retarded in this section, you actually have to fight how you were raised more than anything. This is what's branded in most cultures and races, women are less than men, that's how it's treated in most places in the world. Women get more shit because people won't fight how they were raised or disagree immediately instead of realizing that was their upbringing in the works. Wouldn't it be the opposite? To me a *woman's body thread* would be pathetic and sexist, while Nada's body is more tongue in cheek. That's how I've been raised, sad as it is. | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
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