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I don't see anything wrong with having attractive women at esports events. Its not at all uncommon in other sporting events. It gives the whole thing an air of professionalism and excitement.
In regards to the other discussion that has spun off the OP, namely women and esports, I will just say that not long ago in Chess, a female player named Judit Polgar ascended to rank 3 in the world. Since that time I think she's faded a bit. But nevertheless considering the low percentage of women who play chess compared to men I think this shows rather conclusively that women can play as well as men, there is no definite "gender barrier", but rather just the statistics at play.
Although I do think that genetically men are much more inclined to enjoy playing chess, or starcraft, and that this isn't necessarily just culture at work.
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On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread.
We're discussing sexism. I think.
Look, it's important.
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uhh yea... so i like just google'd who Lauren Elise is and i ended up with some NSFW playboy vid of this blonde girl with the same name that looks just like her...
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On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important.
It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it.
Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.
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On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it. The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke. You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly. Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty! So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious.
I really hope humanity evolves past the "booth babes" phase, because we should have enough self-control to be able to resist "sex sells". I am always reminded of the "box test" of DUNE. How many of you guys would be able to say NO to a hot, naked and willing girl you dont know in your bedroom? Sadly not a lot and that is the bad part for humanitys sake, because it means that ad campaigns will always be able to find at least a few suckers who buy any sort of useless garbage product just by putting in some "hot chicks".
The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.
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On July 18 2012 12:44 SafeAsCheese wrote:
What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated.
maybe not for sc2, but tossgirl was and just retired, sadly
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On July 18 2012 14:13 slappy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 12:44 SafeAsCheese wrote:
What I am trying to say is, I have never heard of a female player that is dedicated. maybe not for sc2, but tossgirl was and just retired, sadly
i don't think this is true. I'm sure a lot of girls are dedacated but it's difficult to be a pro and the number of females playing I assume is very small compared to the males.
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On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important. It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it. Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening.
I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft.
It's discriminating.
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On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it. The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke. You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly. Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty! So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious. I really hope humanity evolves past the "booth babes" phase, because we should have enough self-control to be able to resist "sex sells". I am always reminded of the "box test" of DUNE. How many of you guys would be able to say NO to a hot, naked and willing girl you dont know in your bedroom? Sadly not a lot and that is the bad part for humanitys sake, because it means that ad campaigns will always be able to find at least a few suckers who buy any sort of useless garbage product just by putting in some "hot chicks". The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.
Well in her defense, even if we dont count in the looks, imo lauren did much better at her job than many other people who worked for nasl in the event.
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On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important. It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it. Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening. I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft. It's discriminating.
There's plenty of ugly guys casting and doing other duties. (Just kidding)
You guys need to lighten up. So they hired an attractive female. They've been doing this all the time. Anna prosser and the other female who often do the interviews are very attractive girls. I'm sure there are other people who know more about starcraft that could conduct the interviews. it's part of the show. Starcraft is entertainment, and they are part of the entertainment.
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On July 18 2012 14:24 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important. It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it. Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening. I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft. It's discriminating. There's plenty of ugly guys casting and doing other duties. (Just kidding) You guys need to lighten up. So they hired an attractive female. They've been doing this all the time. Anna prosser and the other female who often do the interviews are very attractive girls. I'm sure there are other people who know more about starcraft that could conduct the interviews. it's part of the show. Starcraft is entertainment, and they are part of the entertainment.
Up for some ZvG?
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On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote:
How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird.
I don't like the use of the word "present" in the title either. It makes it seem as though those in control are manipulating them.
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Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.
Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs.
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On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important. It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it. Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening. I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft. It's discriminating.
You have to stop thinking in a "black and white" scheme when it comes to looks and a lot more tolerance is called for from everyone on the looks of people. There isnt only "beautiful" and "ugly". The majority of people look "average" or "normal" and most of the time girls others call "hot" I would call "not my style". Guys arent automatically ugly, they are just normal looking guys and only look ugly in comparison to someone from the "beautiful sex".
On July 18 2012 14:40 hkf wrote:
Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.
Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs.
As long as these fans have a qualification on being entertaining you have my support. Pure playing skill isnt as important, some knowledge of the game can help though and being an enthusiastic viewer of eSport events will be a definite plus.
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On July 18 2012 10:35 FullNatural wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 10:29 Redmark wrote:On July 18 2012 10:27 FullNatural wrote:
Let's be honest. You cannont compare females and males in a general sense when it comes to any sport involving any kind of physical activity. Males are simply on another physical level. I'm sure many people like to think otherwise. But this fact is not disputable. This is why there is a serperate everything for women ( ie WNBA, LPGA, etc etc). Women will always be seen as sex symbols. This will never change. This is why there are always "hot" females standing off to the side, doing nothing at all but looking good. Supply and demand. It's esports, dude. We pressing buttons all day. It's not Usain Bolt stuff. ahhhh exactly. This is why the old female star leagues could easily hang with the men........ o wait...... Dexterity with hands, eye hand cordination etc etc. This is physical activity. This is why men are better at it. This is why like 1 girl in a thousand (toss girl in BW) could hang with the guys. Not even really. She could hang with B teamers.
AHAHAHAHA. Wait, are you serious? Well then... AHAHAHAHAH, but now i'm mocking your stupidity.
Have you ever seen a professional female musician? Yes.
Problem solved, My work here is done! Goodbye everybody!
(Idiot...)
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 18 2012 14:44 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:16 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 14:09 mlspmatt wrote:On July 18 2012 14:01 Euronyme wrote:On July 18 2012 13:58 Sea_Food wrote:
Seriously, if we must discuss things as trivial as this, then the community is in an extreamly good shape. But it isnt so i dont understand the point of this thread. We're discussing sexism. I think. Look, it's important. It's not sexism. How is it sexism to look at an attractive female, who volunteered to be looked at, and is being payed for it. Sexism is turning women into sex objects when they do not want to be one, such as in a business enviornment. if the young lady who won the Canadian championchip was being discussed at length for her sex appeal rather than her play, that might hint of sexism. But that's not happening. I was thinking of it the other way around. A beautiful young lady with absolutely no clue what she's doing is in front of the camera instead of a possibly somewhat ugly young man who knows exactly everything there's to know about starcraft. It's discriminating. You have to stop thinking in a "black and white" scheme when it comes to looks and a lot more tolerance is called for from everyone on the looks of people. There isnt only "beautiful" and "ugly". The majority of people look "average" or "normal" and most of the time girls others call "hot" I would call "not my style". Guys arent automatically ugly, they are just normal looking guys and only look ugly in comparison to someone from the "beautiful sex". Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:40 hkf wrote:
Don't highlight the fact you have an XX chromosome pair.
Get fans on the basis of your play, not your boobs. As long as these fans have a qualification on being entertaining you have my support. Pure playing skill isnt as important, some knowledge of the game can help though and being an enthusiastic viewer of eSport events will be a definite plus.
I was trying to be mildly entertaining..... At first I actually wrote 'morbidly deformed' but decided that was a bit over the top.
Point is that when I'm watching starcraft, I want starcraft.
If I want to watch sexy women I could just google her name where there's a video of her and another young lady naked in the forest as the first google result.
I'm open to the fact that it's just a difference of culture. There's (to my knowledge) for instance no cheerleaders or anything like that here.
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On July 18 2012 14:09 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 08:49 Dosey wrote:On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote:On July 18 2012 08:14 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 08:11 MetalPanda wrote:
I honestly see nothing wrong with eye candy for a job as minimal as she had to do. They think they help their product by hiring her, and maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but in the end no one is hurt and there's no reason to complain about it. The way I see it, and also the perspective I wrote from, is that everyone actually is hurt by this. So I feel like there IS reasons to complain. What I mentioned was among other things that it makes it more difficult to take other women seriously. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke. You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly. Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p She was asking trivia questions and showing the players to their booth. How is that harmful in any way? I guess booth girls are now harmful because they don't read the comics or play the games of the booths they represent? Erin Andrews doesn't play football or any other sport, she doesn't deserve to report on those sports. In fact, she is hurting ESPN because she's pretty! So, who would be qualified to ask trivia questions? I'm curious. The really important part is that someone needs to be qualified for their job and if you need to do any "free conversation" you have to have background knowledge on the whole topic or risk walking into a deadly trap. Asking trivia questions or knowing the names of a few characters can be learned in a few minutes and thus doesnt say anything about background knowledge. I didnt watch the event, but it seems that she was qualified enough for the job she was given, but Starcraft isnt a game focused on looks, so an especially attractive host isnt really a requirement, being entertaining and able to lead the crowd is as a host.
It's not a requirement, but it's always a plus. The only thing I see here are sexually frustrated nerds that seem to resent beauty and the fact that beautiful women have invaded yet another scene where they "don't belong".
A porn website was crashed, her videos went from middle of the crop to top 10 viewed, NASL maintained a large amount of viewership and discussion, and now NASL (and her) are getting all this attention. I'd say they achieved the desired effect, no?
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The only issue i have with this is that lauren was hired to do an unnecessary job (for the most part). They didnt need her to advertise products since the casters/hosts did a fine job of that and they didnt need anyone to be a "hostess". The impression that i was left with is they hired her for no reason other than to be eye candy and to me this not only degrades women but also us fans.
If there were no females in the community perhaps i could find some leeway but the fact is there are women in e-sports that do a damn fine job whenever called upon, whether that be anna prosser or rachel quirico...both of whom i find to be not just 'attractive' but also passionate about e-sports and, more importantly, talented. A perfect example is the rather obvious example of Soe. Here is a female that is incredibly talented as an artist and as an interviewer (although im sure some will disagree with that point), and when called upon this week to try her hand at casting with day9 i think she did a fine job.
My point is there are numerous females in the community that are already doing a great job as well as (probably) hundreds of others that could hold their own with the guys if given the opportunity. I mean absolutely no disrespect to lauren because she did a fantastic job at what she was hired to do, my only issue is that if organizers continue to go the route of hiring models instead of giving opportunities to the females in our community that have the potential then we will never advance forward. So many people posted on this thread saying there arent females that can rival the boys as hosts/casters...but how will that ever change if theyre never given the opportunity?
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start with showing them some handsome gamers, Then get them to follow said gamers on their games, eventually they will start watching everyone if they show enough interest.
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This is a useless discussion to try and have as long as the females we're talking about are playboy models being hired because you can google her tits. Scarlett is getting plenty of respect, transgender or not. Lauren is not. I wonder why? I'll give you a hint: Scarlett is good at Starcraft 2.
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EPT
