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On July 18 2012 22:22 The Touch wrote:Show nested quote +A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. It is needless to say that the same does not go for the male hosts. But she didn't play the same role as the likes of Day[9], Bitter, and iNcontrol. She was mostly used as an usher and friendly face, and this doesn't require any game knowledge. Similarly, the guy who was announcing the players did not need game knowledge to do his job. Appearance was important for both of these roles, and if NASL had employed a man instead of Lauren Elise, I'm sure he would have been good looking and charismatic too. The people who do these jobs are not supposed to be representatives of the gaming community - they're supposed to be part of a slick presentation, in the same way that whoever presents the weather isn't supposed to represent the meteorological community. Compare this to Soe who was presented as a knowledgeable analyst/interviewer/caster, or Scarlett who was treated in exactly the same way as every other player, at least by NASL themselves (some of the community comments, on the other hand, were less than kind). These are the people who are supposed to be female representatives of the gaming community, and they did a stellar job of it. This sort of thing is definitely worth keeping an eye on, because if it becomes a trend then we have the basis for an argument that women are treated differently than men. But one organistaion, employing one woman, one time, to be a good looking camera presence is not inherently indicative of a sexist attitude towards women.
Well as for your first statement; 2gd was like the most popular host to date afaik, and he didn't know shit about SC2, so totally agree with you there. Imo it has less to do about game knowledge, but more about being a community person, or just someone who's actually invested in what's going on. Hiring porn actresses imo feels like a really cheap way of doing it.
As for your second statement.. Dunno about the UK, but in Sweden the weathermen on TV are meteorologists presenting their work.
Isn't this what happens at pretty much every NASL / MLG / IEM? There are always booth babes or models shoved in somehow that none really knows why they're there apart from looking good.
Imo it's kind of demeaning to the viewership. Basically they're saying "let's put up a porn actress and the pasty white kids who've never talked to a girl in their life without pissing their pants will flock like rats to a carcass."
Meh...
On July 18 2012 22:50 Anachromy wrote:
Perhaps this is a bad analogy, but in the world of traditional sports, i.e. Baseball, Hockey, Basketball, American Football, etc. I have not once heard a female sportscaster in the 27 years I've been on this planet. I don't think it's just us in the SC2 community, but rather competitive sports in general.
women will occasionally do interviews, and flavor commentary, but rarely beyond that.
I've seen plenty. On top of my head there's a fairly old woman (not there for sex appeal) who's part of doing the analytics in hockey championships.
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On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.
What exactly is your problem? Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant  I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion)
Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case.
Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one:
First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself.
No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts.
Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless.
The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No.
Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking.
The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed.
Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general.
So, once again: What is your problem?
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Stop making a big deal about it, Why is it every-time an attractive female that isn't a masters player shows up at an event we have to have a 10 page thread saying she doesn't deserve to be there?
This community is obviously filled with a bunch of white-knight wanna be virgins, who try to look like a good guy but in the end come off as chauvinistic without even realizing they're doing it.
This is the real world, it's not exclusive to Starcraft 2, and it's not even a bad thing. Beautiful people are desirable as public figures because humans by nature admire physical attractiveness above all else. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's not being used to discriminate or infringe upon a person's basic rights. It's not like she's being asked to provide deep commentary on the games, that's other people's jobs.
You need good looking and charismatic people to present eSports just like you need socially awkward nerds to tell the audience why a terran takes gas at 13 instead of 14. People seem to hate on anybody who tries to show up at an eSports even who doesn't play 20 hours a week and that's ridiculous.
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On July 19 2012 00:14 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.
What exactly is your problem? Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion) Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case. Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one: Show nested quote + First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts. Show nested quote +Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless. The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No. Show nested quote +Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed. Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general. So, once again: What is your problem?
My answer is still the same lol Already explained it and I am not trying to convince you to think as I do. Nor am I convinced to change my opinion by your rude answer
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If you have to bring up a thread to highlight this, you're causing the problem yourself. If people stopped making a fucking big deal out of everything, we wouldn't have these issues.
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On July 19 2012 00:18 zEnVy wrote:
Stop making a big deal about it, Why is it every-time an attractive female that isn't a masters player shows up at an event we have to have a 10 page thread saying she doesn't deserve to be there?
This community is obviously filled with a bunch of white-knight wanna be virgins, who try to look like a good guy but in the end come off as chauvinistic without even realizing they're doing it.
This is the real world, it's not exclusive to Starcraft 2, and it's not even a bad thing. Beautiful people are desirable as public figures because humans by nature admire physical attractiveness above all else. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as it's not being used to discriminate or infringe upon a person's basic rights. It's not like she's being asked to provide deep commentary on the games, that's other people's jobs.
You need good looking and charismatic people to present eSports just like you need socially awkward nerds to tell the audience why a terran takes gas at 13 instead of 14. People seem to hate on anybody who tries to show up at an eSports even who doesn't play 20 hours a week and that's ridiculous.
Because she doesn't play the game at all and there are plenty of goodlooking ladies in the community who have a greater appreciation for the game?
What's that? Where are they? They're all busy trying not to be ATTENTION WHORES because that's what they get outed out as if they happen to be female trying to gain credibility in the eSports scene.
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Bisutopia19398 Posts
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.
@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.
Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.
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All you purists are in for a reality check as this scene grows. Everything you might dislike about mainstream sports will become a normal part of e-sports: too much advertising, bandwagoners, sell-out stars and teams, no-talent women hired to do nothing but get your attention, drama, scandals, whatever. This lauren chick is just the beginning. You'll all be saying you loved e-sports before it was cool.
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On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.
@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.
Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them.
Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.
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Bisutopia19398 Posts
On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.
@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.
Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them. Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job.
She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.
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On July 19 2012 00:22 Vildhjerta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 00:14 r.Evo wrote:On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.
What exactly is your problem? Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion) Actually it is very relevant since it's I share the opinion of the majority in this case. Allright, I'll adress your "problems" one by one: First of all, what you look for in any kind of host is of course things like showmanship and charisma, but since this is a specific event, also the knowledge and love of Starcraft II is essential for a host not to make a fool out of oneself. No, it isn't. There are people at events who are hired to commentate and to analyze how things work. Other people are hired to guide through the program and make the whole thing enjoyable for everyone involved. The latter are called hosts. Second of all you have to consider what message the choice of host sends. Does it say “we value people the same, regardless of what gender he/she is “? In a thread on TeamLiquid, the “NASL 3 Feedback thread”, Lauren is mentioned as “eye candy” by several different people. This attitude towards women is world-spread and nothing significant for e-sports, but unfortunate nonetheless. The message it sends is "We understand how the world works". In case you haven't noticed, men enjoy looking at beautiful women. e-sports scene is dominated by males. It's profitable to hire good looking females to host your event. Does that mean that every man who does that devalues women as a subspecies who is only good for looking at it? No. Comments on TL and other places sometimes express how “unfair” it is that girls get more attention than guys in the community. In Lauren’s case I agree; the attention is not well-deserved because she did not accomplish anything. Employing women this way will make it a lot harder for other people, who happen to be of the same gender as Lauren, to be taken for something serious. A girl like Lauren is not a good representative for the female gaming community, especially since she’s barely part of it. Hiring her gives the impression that women are qualified hostesses as long as they’re good looking. The qualites needed for a host for such an event go far beyond looks. You could probably ask Anna Prosser if she got her miss title by "just looking good", I doubt she would tell you that that was all that was needed. Personally I in fact DO feel that the e-sports organizers are going a bit over the top when it comes to employing good looking women just to impress the "nerd crowd", but that's part of being a young industry which still has some growing up to do. It doesn't really help to try and be overly political correct and shout how much hiring a good looking host devalues women in general. So, once again: What is your problem? My answer is still the same lol Already explained it and I am not trying to convince you to think as I do. Nor am I convinced to change my opinion by your rude answer
If you wouldn't want to convince people to think as you do you wouldn't have made this thread in the first place. The rudeness comes from the fact that all of your arguments shatter in face of looking at comparable events in other sports or even events in general.
This isn't about "how to present females in the SC2 community?", this is about mocking an organisational decision which has only one purpose: Profit. If hiring a good looking female host is profitable and attracts viewers it's a good decision. Take a look at motorsports. Take a look at tour de france victory celebrations. Hiring a good looking female host to make your event more popular is no "problem" - it is standard. Why? Because it works.
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On July 19 2012 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.
@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.
Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them. Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job. She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude.
Source please? What were the qualifications? Where can I apply?
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She was hired to be a pretty face, that's pretty standard in anything these days. Nor do I see why it's a problem..I think this whole "e-sports" movement has a few other issues or quirks to get past before we start to nitpick on things like these.
And if you read her tweets it's not like she's too innocent in all this, saying how' she's going to wear a short dress and hopes there are now dwarfs around?
People here act like the female are animals, and that they're forced to go around in small dresses and tease everyone..no, just no? They do that shit cause they want to, they have a choice. And they're paied and hired, like anyone else there.
In fact I don't see any thread about how good lookin' clutch was, cause he was rather styled up! Fucking exploiting his good looks! Gawd! 
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On July 19 2012 00:01 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 23:13 supervizor wrote:On July 18 2012 23:07 Vildhjerta wrote:On July 18 2012 23:05 r.Evo wrote:
I like looking at hot women. I also enjoy listening to them. She's not a commentator, she's a host.
What exactly is your problem? Im not adressing you specifically, and that you like attractive women is not relevant I was wondering about other peoples views on what I wrote about. In my original post and some of the answers I have explained what "my" problem is, or what I think IS a problem. (Note: what I think is a problem, it is my own opinion) Ye but your "problem" if i understood it correctly is: 1) Don't we need people with understanding off the game? Imo, no cause she wasn't casting as far as i know (correct me if im wrong) 2) Does this send a bad message? Using attractive people to host events is pretty normal and i don't see a problem with this. Besides, ur assuming she was chosen because of her looks and not because she seemed to be a decent host. Maybe the confidence she gains from her looks is a key part in her being a good host? To be blunt, her problem is that she's a starcraft girl-gamer, and she's pissed that another women who doesn't really care for the game gets attention just because she's hot, she feels that's unfair to her but she knows that she can't just say what she really feels.
Don't be that guy
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The way Lauren was presented, was not as a host of knowledge and it was never the way to be.
The way Lauren was presented, was the exact same as the ones during wrestling matches, the pretty one walking around with a "round two" sign.
To which i say game knowledge should never be the issue of such role.
However there are issues in the way wrestling, portraits women.
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I didnt really have an opinion about this, but i've come to the conclusion that I dont care at all. This is only an issue because threads like this are making it one. So they get a pretty face to do some announcing, just like every other sport in the world.
They have pretty ladies holding microphones at the world series of poker, do you see threads like this on liquidpoker? Nope. Grow up guys. If you dont like it look at something else for 30 seconds.
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On July 19 2012 00:39 effervescent wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:On July 19 2012 00:31 effervescent wrote:On July 19 2012 00:28 BisuDagger wrote:
Even pretty girls need jobs too. And she has the right to work in any field she wants, she doesn't need to have a bunch of SC2 games played to perform her job. She looked fun with the crowd and did her job.
@OP, Do you feel like you are carrying some badge of honor by pretending to care what women get jobs in this community? It seems like you are offended that a good looking girl got a job helping out an SC2 event yet you try and say it's the opinion of others. This is far from a needed thread. If the women of Starcraft wants jobs they will earn them rightfully so and you don't need to protect them. They are capable human beings like men who must fight for what they want. There is no room for discussion.
Bottom Line: Girls earn their jobs, not just look pretty and get them. Please state the credentials Lauren Elise had to get the NASL job. What were the requirements? I'm genuinely curious as to how she earned that job. She applied for the job. All jobs have qualifications. I'm sure there were other people considered for the job and she was chosen. That or her accomplishments through other work allowed her to gain recognition and was asked to do the job. Don't be ignorant dude. Source please? What were the qualifications? Where can I apply?
They probaly just knew somebody or used an agency... they met her, liked her and that was it. No public job offer. Its much easier and less time consuming. So the reason you weren't chosen was because your currently not friends with a staff member / with the chosen agency?
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On July 18 2012 23:47 Velr wrote:
Imho we should have trained Monkeys (among various other animals) for these kind of Jobs.
That would be truely unique.
Finally somebody actually contributes something construcitve to the discussion.
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Just depends on the role they're hired for? If she was doing starcraft commentary/analysis there'd be an issue. I don't think it's that complicated.
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until guys spend more time on socializing and meeting girls / possibly getting laid by girls instead of so much time on games and being awkward when around others that aren't fellow gamers then this won't change.
The reason women get so much attention is all the socially awkward guys that can interact with others without games being involved in some way
Said guy gets girlfriend and he will quickly lose interest in women in sc2 unless they warrant some attention through being good caster or player.
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EPT
