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On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one?
There's no proof on either side of the argument, so again maybe we should refrain from assumptions and try to get more clarification? Simply pointing out how easy it is to refute/confirm by posting online is not a strong argument, either.
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United Kingdom20314 Posts
On September 22 2025 18:39 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one? There's no proof on either side of the argument, so again maybe we should refrain from assumptions and try to get more clarification? Simply pointing out how easy it is to refute/confirm by posting online is not a strong argument, either.
I'm asking for more information if it exists. Nobody on the major starcraft forums has been able to provide it. I've asked six people directly and spent a significant amount of time researching without success.
Burden of proof is on those making the claim of a radical change, not on affirming the status quo. Why would a change happen? When and how did it happen? Is this backed up by a trusted source, e.g. a blizzard post on their forum or some posts/videos from a pro player?
If somebody that i've never heard of drops a random sentence like "balance council is gone now so it was blizz" then i am already being generous by asking for the source of that information, googling around and digging through reddit threads to try to prove something that somebody else said. If i can't do that and they don't want to reply to me, it's going into the trash bin rather than into my brain as an established fact.
This is just critical thinking. It's not a personal attack.
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On September 22 2025 19:56 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:39 Creager wrote:On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one? There's no proof on either side of the argument, so again maybe we should refrain from assumptions and try to get more clarification? Simply pointing out how easy it is to refute/confirm by posting online is not a strong argument, either. I'm asking for more information if it exists. Nobody on the major starcraft forums has been able to provide it. I've asked six people directly and spent a significant amount of time researching without success. Burden of proof is on those making the claim of a radical change, not on affirming the status quo. Why would a change happen? When and how did it happen? Is this backed up by a trusted source, e.g. a blizzard post on their forum or some posts/videos from a pro player? If somebody that i've never heard of drops a random sentence like "balance council is gone now so it was blizz" then i am already being generous by asking for the source of that information, googling around and digging through reddit threads to try to prove something that somebody else said. If i can't do that and they don't want to reply to me, it's going into the trash bin rather than into my brain as an established fact. This is just critical thinking. It's not a personal attack.
Either way someone has some serious explaining to do with this abomination of a patch 
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France12902 Posts
Yeah, I also heard here or on reddit that this is not from the balance council. But given how difficult it was to have blizzard actually implement patches / bugfixes / new maps in the game, I highly doubt that they somehow decided to have a look at starcraft balance again.
So why did this rumor start?
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On September 22 2025 21:47 -KG- wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 19:56 Cyro wrote:On September 22 2025 18:39 Creager wrote:On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one? There's no proof on either side of the argument, so again maybe we should refrain from assumptions and try to get more clarification? Simply pointing out how easy it is to refute/confirm by posting online is not a strong argument, either. I'm asking for more information if it exists. Nobody on the major starcraft forums has been able to provide it. I've asked six people directly and spent a significant amount of time researching without success. Burden of proof is on those making the claim of a radical change, not on affirming the status quo. Why would a change happen? When and how did it happen? Is this backed up by a trusted source, e.g. a blizzard post on their forum or some posts/videos from a pro player? If somebody that i've never heard of drops a random sentence like "balance council is gone now so it was blizz" then i am already being generous by asking for the source of that information, googling around and digging through reddit threads to try to prove something that somebody else said. If i can't do that and they don't want to reply to me, it's going into the trash bin rather than into my brain as an established fact. This is just critical thinking. It's not a personal attack. Either way someone has some serious explaining to do with this abomination of a patch
We won't get an explanation and nobody will take responsibility.
At least David Kim had the chutzpah to do both.
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On September 22 2025 19:56 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:39 Creager wrote:On September 22 2025 16:11 Cyro wrote:On September 22 2025 01:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2025 01:29 -KG- wrote:On September 19 2025 21:22 Captain Peabody wrote:
Look, I've generally been pro-Balance Council and have defended them for many, many patches. I think they've come up with some good, interesting concepts, shaking things up while keeping the game reasonably balanced. I haven't believed in the Zerg Cabal conspiracy theories. But this proposed patch is utterly absurd, and in itself practically vindicates every claim ever made about the Balance Council being reactive and basing their changes around mob-dynamic buffing and nerfing of races.
(...)
But the thing is, there are no interesting concepts in this proposed patch: the only way to read this is literally just Protoss being punished and nerfed into virtual unplayability. I can't imagine what kind of process would result in this patch. If this is the model for balancing, then something's clearly gone massively wrong somewhere. I thought about these conspiracy theories the same way as when Trump cries about how the election was stolen - undocumented and harmful claims far from reality. But with this......I just don't see any explanation. Even though these changes won't go through (and they most definitely won't) then I think the damage has been done and the councils intentions seem more clear than ever before. What an absolute disaster for the game and the community. But these changes didn't come from the balance council........ Multiple people have claimed this change from the status quo without any source, and have been unable to provide one when challenged. Do you have one? There's no proof on either side of the argument, so again maybe we should refrain from assumptions and try to get more clarification? Simply pointing out how easy it is to refute/confirm by posting online is not a strong argument, either. I'm literally asking for more information if it exists. Nobody on the major starcraft forums has been able to provide it. I've asked six people directly and spent a significant amount of time researching without success. I have no idea why anyone might be making this claim, and they won't show me. Burden of proof is on those making the claim of a radical change, not on affirming the status quo.
From what we can observe directly: We received patch notes without the usual introductory paragraph and further explanations regarding these changes, so that's a deviation from their usual MO. I also have no idea where this claim came from, but this is a noticable difference from all previous patches where the balance council was involved.
Of course that does by no means translate to them not being involved, but it's a deviation nonetheless, for whatever reason that might be.
Then we also have this information that after the previous patch was rolled out ESL sunset the Pro Tour, so effectively ended their involvement in SC2 esports and thus many concluded that the balance council was disbanded in response to that and we also haven't seen any output that contradicts this notion.
Would be great to get some honest comments from people (formerly) involved in this process.
And if that last sentence in your edit was directed at me, don't worry, no offense taken, I'm just intrigued as to why SC2 is getting any balance changes now after we've spent several iterations to make the game worse and it doesn't make much sense (to me) to let the same people take just another shot at it.
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On September 22 2025 22:32 MJG wrote:
We won't get an explanation and nobody will take responsibility.
At least David Kim had the chutzpah to do both.
David Kim is the last thing any game past present or future needs again. Just look at Battle Aces.. oh wait.
I do miss typing out exactly what I was going to do when we rolled the fair and balanced* matchups/maps. If only he had information and scouting to build an adequate counter.
Vision was probably too clouded with the foresight of buffing king crabs to make an entire patch cycle on his new unforseen game unplayable and killing the interest.
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On September 19 2025 02:11 SHODAN wrote:Terran - Siege Tank can no longer be abducted when in siege mode.
I have suggestions for council members.... Supress all abilities in-game
kappa
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On September 22 2025 23:00 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 22:32 MJG wrote:
We won't get an explanation and nobody will take responsibility.
At least David Kim had the chutzpah to do both. David Kim is the last thing any game past present or future needs again. Just look at Battle Aces.. oh wait.
It wasn't a comment on his ability. It was a comment on his accountability.
He was always accountable.
Whoever came up with this patch is not.
I didn't play Battle Aces, but the people I know who did play it had fun with it and were sad to see it cancelled.
From a personal point of view, I'd rather play "David Kim" WoL/HotS/LotV over "ESL" LotV.
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United Kingdom20314 Posts
On September 23 2025 00:00 MJG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 23:00 Agh wrote:On September 22 2025 22:32 MJG wrote:
We won't get an explanation and nobody will take responsibility.
At least David Kim had the chutzpah to do both. David Kim is the last thing any game past present or future needs again. Just look at Battle Aces.. oh wait. It wasn't a comment on his ability. It was a comment on his accountability. He was always accountable. Whoever came up with this patch is not. I didn't play Battle Aces, but the people I know who did play it had fun with it and were sad to see it cancelled.
From a personal point of view, I'd rather play "David Kim" WoL/HotS/LotV over "ESL" LotV.
If that's how it's gonna be, then we should make our own maps with whatever version is most appropriate
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Northern Ireland25754 Posts
It was a clip I saw, I don’t have a source to hand as such.
According to Pig, they didn’t go through, or consult the Balance Council in the same manner as in the past.
However, some proposed changes are basically identical to those proposed in videos by prominent content creators, for example, Harstem.
What appears to potentially be happening is whoever’s on Blizz’s end isn’t calling the fabled council together as before, but neither are they workshopping all their own changes.
They’re just lifting some ideas, but skipping whatever process they had before.
Is my understanding, and I may be incorrect, or maybe there’s more info I haven’t seen.
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Extremely interesting changes (as in I don't know what exactly that means).
Bigger storms, quicker ticks and slightly longer duration? I'm confused by the periods vs duration wording.
Nice to see they are giving the disruptor quite a bit of power back, but now protoss has even crazier zoning tools.
Shroud being an upgrade is interesting - will be very cool to see everything play out in Wardii's PTR tournament tomorrow!
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they added MORE changes? unless they can commit to doing follow-up patches quickly (after the actual release), this seems too ambitious
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On September 23 2025 06:30 funkyemy wrote:
Extremely interesting changes (as in I don't know what exactly that means).
Bigger storms, quicker ticks and slightly longer duration? I'm confused by the periods vs duration wording.
Nice to see they are giving the disruptor quite a bit of power back, but now protoss has even crazier zoning tools.
Shroud being an upgrade is interesting - will be very cool to see everything play out in Wardii's PTR tournament tomorrow!
I think basically the previous PTR had increased the duration of the storm, but they forgot to add more damage ticks to match?
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Increasing the radius is necessary if they want to keep the storm weak, but I'm not sure if taking storm in that direction is going to help where the help is needed.
If Protoss is too strong below the world's top 20, gigastorms with respectabldme damage are going to make them even stronger there. Maybe they should consider adding bonus damage to certain unit types?
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Wow, Blizzard didn't abandon the game, i guess.
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is this Microsoft realising they own SC2 now?
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Storm looks a tad bit too strong with the disrupter buff. I don't think both are necessary.
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I don't understand why the Liberator must have 1 less sight then the Viking and only 1 more than the SCV right now?
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EPT
