EPTSC2 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes + Sept 22nd update - Page 7
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:36 Lexender wrote: So its pretty much confirmed that the council no longer exists and this is a Blizzard patch, so you guys got to find a new target to bitch about (maybe whatever interns made this patch will become the new David Kims?). Doesn't change the fact that we should revert to a patch designed with Blizzard's full attention, and not some half-assed patch designed based on caster/player YouTube videos, whatever contact the former balance council still have with Blizzard, and Reddit's incessant whining. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12432 Posts
On September 19 2025 23:58 MJG wrote: I don't know what the earnings statistics are supposed to prove. There are only really three top-tier Protoss players right now (Classic/herO/MaxPax) and one of those excludes himself from offline tournaments with the biggest prize pools lmao. There are only really two or three top-tier players of any race currently. If there was a massive problem with protoss, it is reasonable to think that you would find the non top-tier players of protoss to close that top 10 rather than the non top-tier players of the other races that are there. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3128 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:21 RogueTheGOAT wrote: It isn't undoing 3 years. It would be undoing 8 years. 2017 Season 3 (July 19, 2017 - October 20, 2017) TvZ 49.6% ZvP 49.4% PvT 49.3% That's a total difference from absolute perfect balance of 1.7% across all 3 match ups with each race being slightly favored and slightly disfavored in each. Nothing else comes close. It's crazy how my feelings of when the game last felt balanced lines up with the best period of balance in the history of LotV. I'm going to go back to 2015 and tell everyone that ten years later David Kim would be looked back on as the golden, unapproachable hero of Starcraft 2 Balance. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1919 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:21 RogueTheGOAT wrote: It isn't undoing 3 years. It would be undoing 8 years. 2017 Season 3 (July 19, 2017 - October 20, 2017) TvZ 49.6% ZvP 49.4% PvT 49.3% That's a total difference from absolute perfect balance of 1.7% across all 3 match ups with each race being slightly favored and slightly disfavored in each. Nothing else comes close. It's crazy how my feelings of when the game last felt balanced lines up with the best period of balance in the history of LotV. Throw all the stats you want at me, but anyone who watched sc2 in 2017 would tell you Zerg was the best race. Hydra bane in the second half of the year was disgusting and it carried your goat to his first wc. ALSO, it was the patch where SERRAL got his first big finish! Also num 2: Fundamentally changing an iconic ability like Storm 15 years into the game is disgusting. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19327 Posts
On September 20 2025 03:27 Mizenhauer wrote: Throw all the stats you want at me, but anyone who watched sc2 in 2017 would tell you Zerg was the best race. Hydra bane in the second half of the year was disgusting and it carried your goat to his first wc. ALSO, it was the patch where SERRAL got his first big finish! Also num 2: Fundamentally changing an iconic ability like Storm 15 years into the game is disgusting. I’m not going to lie though, I’ve been waiting for storm to be more like Brood War since the very beginning lol. I always thought it ended too fast to be fun to watch. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1900 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:36 Lexender wrote: So its pretty much confirmed that the council no longer exists and this is a Blizzard patch, so you guys got to find a new target to bitch about (maybe whatever interns made this patch will become the new David Kims?). Where is that confirmation? Could it still not be the same as before where the Blizzard rep consults with pros for patch ideas and implementation just the balance council doesn't formally exist anymore? But they still have their hand in the basket? | ||
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Sabu113
United States11077 Posts
Incredible. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
This is a redesign of Psi Storm. Should it be redesigned? My initial reaction was why? But the more I think about the more it probably makes sense to make it a zoning tool. If the TvP Meta is protoss having many more bases than the terran then it means the terran can never afford to be hit by a huge psi storm. Thus the game must be balanced with the terran almost being capable of EMP'ing beforehand and it's just not that fun. Making it a zoning tool could work. And I think most people are getting this wrong. Yes it's not gonna deal a large amount of instant damage. However, terrans can't take fights in it. And terrans really can't afford to just stim past it (that's not how bio works). 2 Psi storm should generally result in a huge positional advantage for the protoss player. The difference is that TvP won't be as one-sided with one fight potentially ended the game. But rather more back and forth and tactical plays. TvZ is interesting as well because the counter to the Shroud is Psi Storm. The change to both abilities will make fights longer as well. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On September 20 2025 08:08 Hider wrote: The more I think about the more I like the patch. This is a redesign of Psi Storm. Should it be redesigned? My initial reaction was why? But the more I think about the more it probably makes sense to make it a zoning tool. If the TvP Meta is protoss having many more bases than the terran then it means the terran can never afford to be hit by a huge psi storm. Thus the game must be balanced with the terran almost being capable of EMP'ing beforehand and it's just not that fun. Making it a zoning tool could work. And I think most people are getting this wrong. Yes it's not gonna deal a large amount of instant damage. However, terrans can't take fights in it. And terrans really can't afford to just stim past it (that's not how bio works). 2 Psi storm should generally result in a huge positional advantage for the protoss player. The difference is that TvP won't be as one-sided with one fight potentially ended the game. But rather more back and forth and tactical plays. TvZ is interesting as well because the counter to the Shroud is Psi Storm. The change to both abilities will make fights longer as well. Zone them to do, what? Toss eventually have to kill their opponent’s army. Forcefields are already a potent zoning option, but are very situationally deployed in TvP and kinda get phased out. Disruptors were extremely potent zoning tools and got nerfed to be less effective in that capacity. And Toss in this meta go pretty Zealot heavy too, so I mean eventually you have to engage. With units that kinda go where they want when they charge. I could see it being situationally useful, absolutely. But it’s also an absolutely core ability in killing things in direct engagements. So nerfing it in that capacity is gigantic. If you wanted to experiment, give Temps two different flavours of Storm, or buff something that would synergise with these changes. In a crude sense, Zerg want to get on top of you at all times, provided it’s not suicidal. Toss want to keep the bugs away from them most times, and jump on top of Terran. Terran are the race that want to engage at a distance across the board. Giving Toss a potent zoning tool, but neutering its ability to quickly kill things, might be somewhat potent in PvZ. But in PvT, where you want to get up close and personal, I don’t see how it works, in general. It would obviously be strong in delaying pushes and buying time to reinforce to crush it, but more generally it’s not something that feels synergises with how the faction plays in that matchup | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2256 Posts
On September 20 2025 08:40 WombaT wrote: Zone them to do, what? Toss eventually have to kill their opponent’s army. Forcefields are already a potent zoning option, but are very situationally deployed in TvP and kinda get phased out. Disruptors were extremely potent zoning tools and got nerfed to be less effective in that capacity. And Toss in this meta go pretty Zealot heavy too, so I mean eventually you have to engage. With units that kinda go where they want when they charge. I could see it being situationally useful, absolutely. But it’s also an absolutely core ability in killing things in direct engagements. So nerfing it in that capacity is gigantic. If you wanted to experiment, give Temps two different flavours of Storm, or buff something that would synergise with these changes. In a crude sense, Zerg want to get on top of you at all times, provided it’s not suicidal. Toss want to keep the bugs away from them most times, and jump on top of Terran. Terran are the race that want to engage at a distance across the board. Giving Toss a potent zoning tool, but neutering its ability to quickly kill things, might be somewhat potent in PvZ. But in PvT, where you want to get up close and personal, I don’t see how it works, in general. It would obviously be strong in delaying pushes and buying time to reinforce to crush it, but more generally it’s not something that feels synergises with how the faction plays in that matchup If you have Zealots they will run through your own storms if you ever decide to engage the enemy or drop behind their army with a prism like u used to. Completely nonsensical, and also so wack for changing one of the most iconic and badass abilities IMO. Just nerf the energy charger instead of going the other way around jfc. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17439 Posts
On September 19 2025 02:28 Charoisaur wrote: Other than that I dislike the abduct change mostly for design/lore reasons. Why wouldn't a Viper be able to abduct a tank, when it can even pull a Lurker from under the ground? Tyrador Armaments redesigned how the Siege Tank digs into the ground. Its now dug so hard into the ground it grips the surface even harder than a burrowed lurker. Rory Swann was part of the initial testing teams that got the new design approved. | ||
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TeamMamba
202 Posts
On September 20 2025 08:08 Hider wrote: The more I think about the more I like the patch. This is a redesign of Psi Storm. Should it be redesigned? My initial reaction was why? But the more I think about the more it probably makes sense to make it a zoning tool. If the TvP Meta is protoss having many more bases than the terran then it means the terran can never afford to be hit by a huge psi storm. Thus the game must be balanced with the terran almost being capable of EMP'ing beforehand and it's just not that fun. Making it a zoning tool could work. And I think most people are getting this wrong. Yes it's not gonna deal a large amount of instant damage. However, terrans can't take fights in it. And terrans really can't afford to just stim past it (that's not how bio works). 2 Psi storm should generally result in a huge positional advantage for the protoss player. The difference is that TvP won't be as one-sided with one fight potentially ended the game. But rather more back and forth and tactical plays. TvZ is interesting as well because the counter to the Shroud is Psi Storm. The change to both abilities will make fights longer as well. lol zoning? You need to go look at some ptr testing clips. Bio ball and lings literally can rush past 3 storms and still have half hp Toss rely on the storm to do dps. Without it their splash damage is literally garbage. If they wanted to nerf storm to the ground, they needed to buff gateway units and Robo | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12432 Posts
On September 20 2025 10:22 TeamMamba wrote: lol zoning? You need to go look at some ptr testing clips. Bio ball and lings literally can rush past 3 storms and still have half hp Toss rely on the storm to do dps. Without it their splash damage is literally garbage. If they wanted to nerf storm to the ground, they needed to buff gateway units and Robo But there's probably something wrong in the PTR currently, right? Like when you go through storms with lings some of them don't get damaged at all, there's nothing in the change that says this. Think this is just bugged. | ||
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ShroudCyber
5 Posts
The purpose of choosing HT is to provide nuke damage, not to create an impassable area. Even if you're trying to decrease the damage rate of storm to give Terran and Zerg more flexibility, you should ensure that the first three ticks of storm have the same damage as before(10 damage per tick), and then only 5 damage per tick. Otherwise, storm becomes a completely useless trash. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On September 20 2025 08:40 WombaT wrote: Zone them to do, what? Toss eventually have to kill their opponent’s army. Forcefields are already a potent zoning option, but are very situationally deployed in TvP and kinda get phased out. Disruptors were extremely potent zoning tools and got nerfed to be less effective in that capacity. And Toss in this meta go pretty Zealot heavy too, so I mean eventually you have to engage. With units that kinda go where they want when they charge. I could see it being situationally useful, absolutely. But it’s also an absolutely core ability in killing things in direct engagements. So nerfing it in that capacity is gigantic. If you wanted to experiment, give Temps two different flavours of Storm, or buff something that would synergise with these changes. In a crude sense, Zerg want to get on top of you at all times, provided it’s not suicidal. Toss want to keep the bugs away from them most times, and jump on top of Terran. Terran are the race that want to engage at a distance across the board. Giving Toss a potent zoning tool, but neutering its ability to quickly kill things, might be somewhat potent in PvZ. But in PvT, where you want to get up close and personal, I don’t see how it works, in general. It would obviously be strong in delaying pushes and buying time to reinforce to crush it, but more generally it’s not something that feels synergises with how the faction plays in that matchup Actually I quite like that idea, if you wanted to give Templars a zoning tool why not just give Templars a zoning tool? Add it to what they already have. I guarantee you though that nobody would use this version of the spell if given the choice because it is straight up worse than regular Psi Storm. There is no tactical benefit to this change, it is a straight up nerf, and there's no compensation for it anywhere in the notes for Protoss. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On September 20 2025 12:39 Vindicare605 wrote: Actually I quite like that idea, if you wanted to give Templars a zoning tool why not just give Templars a zoning tool? Add it to what they already have. I guarantee you though that nobody would use this version of the spell if given the choice because it is straight up worse than regular Psi Storm. There is no tactical benefit to this change, it is a straight up nerf, and there's no compensation for it anywhere in the notes for Protoss. Absolutely, there’s nothing to sweeten the pill. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3510 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26535 Posts
On September 20 2025 13:03 Gescom wrote: Cool! Nice to see another tweak. I like the light touch. Looks good to me as a neutral // random enjoyer. How is completely changing a core ability Toss has had since WoL employing a light touch? | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On September 20 2025 02:36 Lexender wrote: So its pretty much confirmed that the council no longer exists and this is a Blizzard patch, so you guys got to find a new target to bitch about (maybe whatever interns made this patch will become the new David Kims?). "pretty much confirmed"? After searching several times i haven't found any evidence of this on TL or other forums like reddit. If it's Blizzard's sole doing you'd expect people to come out and say that this crazy patch has nothing to do with them. If that is the case, Blizz should not screw with the game like this either. We as a community can and should use our own design/balance (such as using all of the numbers from X prior patch) in the event of Blizz making wildly inappropriate changes to the game, but it would be a shame for them to ruin the ladder as we can't really replace that. | ||
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