EPTThe weather forecast just took a dump!!! It's gonna be storm ALL DAY!
SC2 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes + Sept 22nd update - Page 6
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duckTemplar
United States216 Posts
The weather forecast just took a dump!!! It's gonna be storm ALL DAY! | ||
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Alienship
China28 Posts
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 19 2025 19:00 MJG wrote: Blizzard need to revert to one of their own patches (many of them were much more balanced than the current patch as per balance data readily available on Liquipedia) or else we're going to continue having year upon year of completely skewed tournament results stemming from poorly thought out, minimally tested design changes, like what we've had during this patch due to Energy Overcharge. Two things: 1) The balance of the game is not independent of the map pool. This is one of my biggest criticisms historically with Blizzard is that they make permanent changes to the game based on things being overly strong on a specific map pool. e.g. 2018 Raven nerf because Backwater let Terran players turtle on 4 bases for free which gave Maru (and only Maru) the gas needed to mass ravens. 2) You'd never get people to agree on when. I'd go with the Blizzcon game state of 2017 as the last time the game felt balanced in all match ups, but choosing that would entail things like returning the Mothership Core and casting a negative light on the results of a lot of fan favorite players, so even if people agreed it was balanced, it would never be chosen. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 19 2025 22:05 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Two things: 1) The balance of the game is not independent of the map pool. This is one of my biggest criticisms historically with Blizzard is that they make permanent changes to the game based on things being overly strong on a specific map pool. e.g. 2018 Raven nerf because Backwater let Terran players turtle on 4 bases for free which gave Maru (and only Maru) the gas needed to mass ravens. 2) You'd never get people to agree on when. I'd go with the Blizzcon game state of 2017 as the last time the game felt balanced in all match ups, but choosing that would entail things like returning the Mothership Core and casting a negative light on the results of a lot of fan favorite players, so even if people agreed it was balanced, it would never be chosen. Blizzard don't need people to agree because they never will. Blizzard just need someone to crunch the numbers, someone to present those numbers to the community, and someone to roll back the game to whatever patch those numbers show would be best. They can and should ignore what the community wants because we've shown ourselves to be completely and utterly clueless lmao. Three years of community balance patches and the game is more imbalanced than it has been at any other point during Legacy of the Void. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
There's a lot of potential for reworks, to see what units can be used more thoughtfully and rewarded for good positioning instead of mainly as sledge hammers. Maybe we'll see more of that over time. I think it makes the game more fun. P.S. People need to eat some fucking oatmeal and increase the diameter of their poops. It makes you feel good. Jesus christ do people just sleep on hot coals?? I do Oh my god. Also some people's suggestions...........holy mother of god I'm not even going to quote it, I might summon Candyman. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 19 2025 22:30 MJG wrote: Blizzard don't need people to agree because they never will. Blizzard just need someone to crunch the numbers, someone to present those numbers to the community, and someone to roll back the game to whatever patch those numbers show would be best. They can and should ignore what the community wants because we've shown ourselves to be completely and utterly clueless lmao. Three years of community balance patches and the game is more imbalanced than it has been at any other point during Legacy of the Void. Balance is more feeling than actual numbers. Based on tournament results, the game is more balanced currently than it has been in years, but nobody agrees because TvP isn't fun and because people HATE when Protoss wins. On September 19 2025 22:39 RogerChillingworth wrote: I like the storm change. Zoning is cool and always welcome. Have you seen any of the clips posted on Reddit? Yes, they are not game situations, but marines being healed through storm, mutalisks running through multiple with their health instantly regenerating back to green in a second, and stimmed bio running through 3 storms says that it no longer works to zone. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12610 Posts
As much as I enjoyed watching Harstem's Youtube, if you want a game that is remotely good you need people advocating in the balance council that do not hate their own race. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 19 2025 22:47 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Balance is more feeling than actual numbers. Based on tournament results, the game is more balanced currently than it has been in years, but nobody agrees because TvP isn't fun and because people HATE when Protoss wins. The game is definitely not balanced right now. Just look at the win rate statistics. If how the game "feels" is what the community balance patches have been working off then that approach clearly doesn't work and shouldn't be used going forwards. The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for balance | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 19 2025 22:55 MJG wrote: The game is definitely not balanced right now. Just look at the win rate statistics. If how the game "feels" is what the community balance patches have been working off then that approach clearly doesn't work and shouldn't be used going forwards. The numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for balance Which numbers are those? The ones where PvT win rates jump 5.6% 7 months after the patch? The ones where TvZ is almost as bad as PvT? The ones where only two Protoss players are in the top 10 of 2025 earnings? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18015 Posts
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 19 2025 23:10 RogueTheGOAT wrote: Which numbers are those? The ones where PvT win rates jump 5.6% 7 months after the patch? The ones where TvZ is almost as bad as PvT? The ones where only two Protoss players are in the top 10 of 2025 earnings? Both Liquipedia and Aligulac have two match-ups with a >55% winrate. Aligulac has two match-ups with >60% winrate and that has never happened before. I've been very vocal about how Aligulac exaggerates winrates due to the data it does and doesn't collect, but if both Liquipedia and Aligulac are both displaying a problem, then there's a damn problem. I don't know what the earnings statistics are supposed to prove. There are only really three top-tier Protoss players right now (Classic/herO/MaxPax) and one of those excludes himself from offline tournaments with the biggest prize pools lmao. | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2276 Posts
On September 19 2025 21:30 Olli wrote: Here's a very simple idea - make storm damage stack, keep the longer duration and damage. If you want storm to be a zoning tool, sure. But then let me storm an area and, if you walk through it, commit another storm to punish an overextension. Energy management on HT would become more important. It's an easy way to make the interaction with high templar both less punishing on quick initial burst damage and more skillful in that the decision-making on both sides becomes more important. But if you're just going to 1A your army into mine through a choke point, let me storm that area 5 times and blow it to oblivion. I like this idea - but let's only make it stackable once, otherwise you could mouse roll shenanigans to insta delete an army. Or have a second storm spell that costs double energy but is more similar to the old storm? Perhaps even to be researched at the Templar Archive? This version of storm from the PTR just makes no sense at all. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
The game isn't very fun to play at the moment, (nor to watch but it's alright) so thankfully they try to shake things up It's still PTR so they'll need to adjust a few things | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 19 2025 23:58 MJG wrote: Both Liquipedia and Aligulac have two match-ups with a >55% winrate. Aligulac has two match-ups with >60% winrate and that has never happened before. I've been very vocal about how Aligulac exaggerates winrates due to the data it does and doesn't collect, but if both Liquipedia and Aligulac are both displaying a problem, then there's a damn problem. I don't know what the earnings statistics are supposed to prove. There are only really three top-tier Protoss players right now (Classic/herO/MaxPax) and one of those excludes himself from offline tournaments with the biggest prize pools lmao. If you're basing nerfs on numbers, then: Terran needs a massive TvP buff. Terran needs a massive TvZ nerf. Energy recharge and storm CANNOT be changed because PvZ is "even". If those were the contents of the patch, people would scream because feelings matter more than stats to the player base. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17750 Posts
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Archeon
3274 Posts
Negative standout for me is the obs change and tbh I think the storm change removes HTs from competitive play. It's now a soft version of force field I guess? Both seems extreme to me considering that obs are already the most expensive scout which also ties up your incredibly expensive upgraded production facility. I also think the storm change buffs the top tier players against storm, which I feel is the opposite of what you want to do, you want to make protoss less reliable in mid tier play. Other than that dark swarm for Zerg seems kinda nuts to me, but guess we'll see (T disappear in TvZ). I think abduct is a terrible spell (just like snipe btw), but introducing more inconsistencies doesn't make sense to me. Considering that blinding cloud is extremely effective vs siege tanks I assume the point was that Z was fishing tanks in stalemates? Considering that mass ghost is still peak lategame TvZ I don't really see the point. I really don't get why we're buffing mines again, but what do I know. Tbf I think the game design points are interesting enough. I just think that balance wise this is gonna destroy Protoss again and it's going to be a rough patch for T in TvZ. | ||
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tigera6
3516 Posts
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Archeon
3274 Posts
On September 20 2025 01:25 tigera6 wrote: I think the point with the Abduct not allowed on Tanks in Siege mode, is the defensive choke point that Terran create at home. Now Viper cant get rid of those Tanks and Zerg will have to risk moving their army into the Terran defense to take the Tanks down. That's fair, I just feel like that's kinda how Zerg mostly plays anyways. And if we're removing poke and prod spells I would have expected snipe to go much earlier than abduct, especially since snipe outranges pretty much everything from Z while tanks have enough additional range that Vipers can get shot at by AA while the tank protects the AA. | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 20 2025 00:44 RogueTheGOAT wrote: If you're basing nerfs on numbers, then: Terran needs a massive TvP buff. Terran needs a massive TvZ nerf. Energy recharge and storm CANNOT be changed because PvZ is "even". This is exactly why the current patch cannot be fixed, because nerfing/buffing any area to address one problem will have an unwanted impact on the other two match-ups, which is because people with no game development experience broke everything beyond repair via three years of inane changes. This is why I keep saying that we should return to a Blizzard patch that we know was relatively balanced. EDIT: I know it's not going to happen because the people creating these patches are simply too arrogant to admit that they're wrong, and thus go back to something that worked well before, because that would mean admitting that the past three years were a failed experiment. | ||
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RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On September 20 2025 01:57 MJG wrote: This is exactly why the current patch that cannot be fixed, because nerfing/buffing any area to address one problem will have an unwanted impact on the other two match-ups, which is because people with no game development experience broke everything beyond repair via three years of inane changes. This is why I keep saying that we should return to a Blizzard patch that we know was relatively balanced. EDIT: I know it's not going to happen because the people creating these patches are simply too arrogant to admit that they're wrong, and thus go back to something that worked well before, because that would mean admitting that the past three years were a failed experiment. It isn't undoing 3 years. It would be undoing 8 years. 2017 Season 3 (July 19, 2017 - October 20, 2017) TvZ 49.6% ZvP 49.4% PvT 49.3% That's a total difference from absolute perfect balance of 1.7% across all 3 match ups with each race being slightly favored and slightly disfavored in each. Nothing else comes close. It's crazy how my feelings of when the game last felt balanced lines up with the best period of balance in the history of LotV. | ||
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